Religious or Spiritual?

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by ScarlettHayden

I said there is a scale. Some people are more aware than others. That is a fact. Or are you saying I can't prove it because there is no physical evidence like with skin tone? I want to see your counter argument for why you don't believe in 'enlightenment', apparently.

Some people are more into spirituality than others, but I don't see that as making them more enlightened. They would have more experience and understanding of spirituality than someone with no interest in it, but enlightenment is a subjective term from the perspective of one's own spiritual beliefs.

Someone who doesn't believe in Christianity might see Christians as unenlightened, yet a Christian would see themselves as enlightened. A person who has New Age beliefs might see themselves as enlightened, but someone with different beliefs might not see them that way. The enlightenment scale is determined by one's own beliefs, so it's subjective and not a factual thing. Facts should apply universally.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Someone who doesn't believe in Christianity might see Christians as unenlightened, yet a Christian would see themselves as enlightened. A person who has New Age beliefs might see themselves as enlightened, but someone with different beliefs might not see them that way. The enlightenment scale is determined by one's own beliefs, so it's subjective and not a factual thing. Facts should apply universally.

It doesn't happen often Seawolf, but for once I agree with you. Well said.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by ScarlettHayden

I want to see your counter argument for why you don't believe in 'enlightenment', apparently.

You're asking questions the rest of us have been asking for months. The answer I got was that everything is religion and we're all equal enlightenment-wise and if you don't think that you're intolerant towards religion. Good luck.

[LadyMay]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Some people are more into spirituality than others, but I don't see that as making them more enlightened. They would have more experience and understanding of spirituality than someone with no interest in it, but enlightenment is a subjective term from the perspective of one's own spiritual beliefs.

Someone who doesn't believe in Christianity might see Christians as unenlightened, yet a Christian would see themselves as enlightened. A person who has New Age beliefs might see themselves as enlightened, but someone with different beliefs might not see them that way. The enlightenment scale is determined by one's own beliefs, so it's subjective and not a factual thing. Facts should apply universally.

These things are subjective. So how does a Christian who believes themselves to be enlightened react when they experience an awakening? Suddenly they are much more aware yet.. they are still a Christian, they still believe in Christian things. But the fact that they experienced this thing that opened their eyes is a given. It is still enlightenment, just on a different scale. Perhaps the problem here is that we're imagining this scale as two dimensional instead of three or even four dimensional. There is a place for everyone's beliefs without disregarding the existence of experiences which suddenly make one 'enlightened' to a deeper truth or awareness.

[LadyMay]

Originally Posted by Baile

You're asking questions the rest of us have been asking for months. The answer I got was that everything is religion and we're all equal enlightenment-wise and if you don't think that you're intolerant towards religion. Good luck.

Well, what is your definition of enlightenment? Perhaps we should bring it back to this fundamental level.

[LadyMay]

@Baile Oh I just realized is that the answer you were giving me about being intolerant or is that the answer that others gave you?

Perhaps we should ask everyone here participating their definition of enlightenment. We can't come to an understanding if we don't hold the same premises.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by ScarlettHayden

Perhaps the problem here is that we're imagining this scale as two dimensional instead of three or even four dimensional.

Scarlett, the problem is one track mind. "You're dividing" is about as deep a reply as you're going to get. Next you will be accused of being intolerant because you see enlightened and unenlightened.

[Baile]

Nothing directed at you Scarlett, I'm just warning you lol. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by ScarlettHayden

We can't come to an understanding if we don't hold the same premises.

Actually, we don't need to hold the same premises. People can come to an understanding to politely agree to disagree. But that won't happen here. You'll be accused of one thing or another the moment it's clear you don't agree. You'll be accused of hating religion if you think spiritual is something different than religious. You'll be accused of religious intolerance if you think the spiritual path is the preferred method of enlightenment. Personal opinions and preferences are not allowed. No politely agreeing to disagree here.

[LadyMay]

Originally Posted by Baile

Scarlett, the problem is one track mind. "You're dividing" is about as deep a reply as you're going to get. Next you will be accused of being intolerant because you see enlightened and unenlightened.

One dimensional then