Is anyone here familiar with the Baha'i Faith?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Altair

No, we don't have perfect understanding nor do all those bearded men who sit cross legged and give you a mantra. Humans are fallible.

Unless you Personally know all those bearded men in the world who sit crossed legged and give you a Mantra then really you cannot judge....

[Altair]

Originally Posted by sky123

Unless you Personally know all those bearded men in the world who sit crossed legged and give you a Mantra then really you cannot judge....

IMO belief in infallible, omniscient god-men is on the same page as belief in the Easter Bunny.

Humans are just humans.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

My one and only Teacher is definitely ' Self Realized ' and I love Him....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=L_jXmKszEdk

Puppetji's "Wizdumb" definitely commands one's attention !

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

As for me:

Teacher....... maybe.

Guru........... not for me.

What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet !

It is my understanding that the word "Guru" literally refers to one who "removes ignorance". My "teacher" removed at least some of my ignorance.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by janielee

Ditto.

The intellectual puts down his/her sword ..

I was a Phi Beta Kappa top student in college and getting past the "intellectual" was one of my most formidable obstacles.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

I'm telling you for your own good. You'll never ever be disappointed if you follow my advice

Thank you ! By following your advice and having no expectations, I agree that I will never ever be disappointed in anything that you say or do !

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Altair

I suppose much of this depends on how one defines ''self-realization''. To my understanding it is supposed to be an 'end stage' where all 'negative' characteristics have disappeared and will not return. It is also said to be a state of omniscience and omnipotence. You can already guess that I do not believe in any of this because I do not believe the human being is or will become God ((spiritually)) nor do I believe it makes any sense ((rationally)) and it would be rather easy to put such claims to the test, and over time I have learned that many supposed enlightened masters had demonstratably false beliefs about the universe, nature, the human body, made false predictions, and so forth.

If however you take a more watered down approach of it being an experience where everything clicks and feels amazing, a eureka moment filled with joy and bliss, than sure. This is also not alien to scientific research. Neuroscientists study such states of being.

You raise an excellent point regarding exactly how does one define "self-realization". You are most assuredly a person after my own heart --- question everything.

My understanding of "self-realization" is simply knowing yourself and seeing the Reality clearly as it truly is devoid of any conditioning that obscures the clear vision. In meditation, one shifts attention to subtler and subtler levels of consciousness without losing a grip on the levels left behind. In this way, one can answer the question "Who Am I" (really) for one's Self without having to rely on the words or teachings of others. Everything else seems to follow from that understanding.

The discovery process is truly mind-boggling and life-transforming. It shook my conditioned beliefs to their very foundations.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

You raise an excellent point regarding exactly how does one define "self-realization". You are most assuredly a person after my own heart --- question everything.

My understanding of "self-realization" is simply knowing yourself and seeing the Reality clearly as it truly is devoid of any conditioning that obscures the clear vision. In meditation, one shifts attention to subtler and subtler levels of consciousness without losing a grip on the levels left behind. In this way, one can answer the question "Who Am I" (really) for one's Self without having to rely on the words or teachings of others. Everything else seems to follow from that understanding.

The discovery process is truly mind-boggling and life-transforming. It shook my conditioned beliefs to their very foundations.

Still Waters,

Thanks....:) Just a word of caution when we say 'question everything'. That is OK if everything actually means everything. Our questioning IMO generally exhibits a bias to the negative. We often question the very things we see or experience unless it can be demonstrated to be scientifically true. IMO this is limiting.....it becomes impossible to believe the miraculous unless we personally experience it. It becomes an impediment to believing 'that all things are possible'. Admittedly some things simply suggest taking a step of faith. Many things have been achieved by 'dreaming the impossible dream'.

I was struck by your honest words in a previous post: "I was a Phi Beta Kappa top student in college and getting past the "intellectual" was one of my most formidable obstacles." Perhaps getting past the intellectual is also getting by science ? We should not be restricted by what we know or what we think we know. Even as broad and comprehensive as it might be our POV is always limited to extents that we cannot realize or comprehend>

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I was a Phi Beta Kappa top student in college and getting past the "intellectual" was one of my most formidable obstacles.

It was a long time ago now, SW, but people who suffer might have a more open heart, and secondly, there has to be a willingness by the student to trust in the heart i.e. and not the intellect

Meditation helps. But then again, I have known people who have meditated for a long time and never progressed past the intellect.

Originally Posted by Molearner

Still Waters,

Thanks....:) Just a word of caution when we say 'question everything'. That is OK if everything actually means everything. Our questioning IMO generally exhibits a bias to the negative. We often question the very things we see or experience unless it can be demonstrated to be scientifically true. IMO this is limiting.....it becomes impossible to believe the miraculous unless we personally experience it. It becomes an impediment to believing 'that all things are possible'. Admittedly some things simply suggest taking a step of faith. Many things have been achieved by 'dreaming the impossible dream'.

I was struck by your honest words in a previous post: "I was a Phi Beta Kappa top student in college and getting past the "intellectual" was one of my most formidable obstacles." Perhaps getting past the intellectual is also getting by science ? We should not be restricted by what we know or what we think we know. Even as broad and comprehensive as it might be our POV is always limited to extents that we cannot realize or comprehend>

Excellent points.

JL