Why are you a vegetarian or vegan?

[Lightspirit]

Originally Posted by DebbyM

Your tender heart is also your strength lightworker. One time I was discussing like this with somebody on another forum. He thought to embarrass me by calling me a bleeding heart and I was thrilled to accept that label! Absolutely thrilled because it shows that I care about someone else. Same for you.

You know when I was a kid, we had a few farm animals and I loved them. Patty was our pig and we used to run around her yard and play tag with her. And Patty used to play tag with our heifer Sparkle. Made my dad so mad. All that running around would take the 'flesh' off the pig and he used to beat the calf because she was chasing the pig around. I hated that, it was awful having to see your dad doing these things.

And then one day Sparkle was gone. And then Patty was gone too. And those things are part of what has shaped my opinion. And I look at what goes on in the world and I'm reassured that the world needs bleeding hearts to help affect a change for good. And lightworker, you can be an official bleeding heart, along with me. You already have the same mission so you can borrow the label if you like. It's free to all if they chose to take it up.....hint, hint ......

Thanks for that they are nice words.

A bleeding heart a bit I am. Like in all things we have choices we can exercise free will. My choice is to go against common opinion and what people tell me that say meat is a dietary requirement or the law of nature. Gravity is a law of nature and we defeated that years ago..because we are smart. Humans aren't bound by the things other animals are we can chose what we do.

People who abstain from animal products usually do it for health or ethical reasons. Its proven meat not needed, millions live without it daily.

I am like you I chose to care and reduce unneeded suffering...Because we can! :)

[Podshell]

Hearing this qute by Srila Prabhupada , stopped me eating meat.


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" Just see. Simply for tongue, so many slaughterhouses are being maintained. I have seen. Those who are meat-eaters… I have seen in the airplane. A small piece of meat they are eating, not very much. But for these small pieces, so many population, huge quantity of slaughterhouse is being maintained. They cannot give up that small piece of meat. What is the difficulty? They can make… The same thing can be made by milk, milk product, channa. What do you call curd? Cheese. You prepare cheese and fry it. You’ll get the same taste. But let the animal live, take its milk, and prepare so many milk preparations. But these rascals will not do. You kill simply for this tongue. It is so strong, this tongue. They cannot give up this, I mean to say, formidable tongue. He is demanding, “You must give me meat.” So they are obliged. And for this obligation, they are committing so much sinful activities, abominable activities. And becoming bound up by the laws of nature to accept a body within the 8,400,000 species of life, and becoming the worm in the stool."
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I Couldn't argue with that!

[Kis]

I become vegetarian roughly 12 years ago, age 10. I spoke to a nice bunch of people with a stall in the town where I used to live, and they told me about the cruelty many animals encounter in general and before slaughter. I was disgusted and distraught that people could treat animals in this way. I started seeing the meat I consumed as "guilty" meat and I felt awful when I ate it.

I did some research online and found so many horror stories and revolting videos, and that was the final straw. One day, I woke up and that was it..I declared to the household that I was becoming a vegetarian. I think they thought it was just a phase that I'd get bored of eventually, but 12 years-ish on..It's been a long phase lol

I am picky about what I eat, by choice. Anything I consume must clearly say "Suitable for vegetarians" on the packet. But I've found that some people are more relaxed about this.

I had always had a special relationship with animals, and I still do. I can't fathom why I would ever want to eat the animals I hold close to my heart. It'd be like eating a best friend or a sibling, in my eyes.

Now that I am older, I am still a vegetarian for the purpose of the animals but it has also become a great way of staying healthy and maintaining my desired figure :)

It has always been win-win! And I'll never turn back.

*I didn't want my post to sound all anti-meat and give the impression of "all meat eaters are evil" because that is not what I am trying to put across, nor do I believe that. I am the only vegetarian in my family, and I have less than a handful of vegetarian/vegan friends. I fully respect every persons decision. This is simply my story and my thoughts and feelings with regards to my decision of becoming a vegetarian :)

Originally Posted by elaine

I dislike the way animals are factory farmed.

I dislike the way humans are factory farmed, and mass-produced
it has made factory farming and mass-production of animals necessary
to keep humans fed.

Our models show that if all 8 billion ppl were vegan the eco-disaster would
be apocalyptic.

Those in Peru who eat rabbit and guinea pic, those on coasts who eat fish
aboriginies who eat inescts and grubs ...

I see the real problem as being overpopulation by humans
and became vegan without realizing it wont help.

Since then [1974] vegetables have become a real health threat GMO, Feces, Infected in mass-production, Chemicals, and agriculture related disters [drought etc] ...

It was a way for me to express pacifism as well, but I was uninformed, and hadnt done the math or run the models I have since then.

Being vegan can cause the subject damage as well, anemia, heart shrinkage, brain shrinkage, and other effects ppl should research before jumping.

Originally Posted by 7he4uthor

I dislike the way humans are factory farmed, and mass-produced
it has made factory farming and mass-production of animals necessary
to keep humans fed.

Our models show that if all 8 billion ppl were vegan the eco-disaster would
be apocalyptic.

Those in Peru who eat rabbit and guinea pic, those on coasts who eat fish
aboriginies who eat inescts and grubs ...

I see the real problem as being overpopulation by humans
and became vegan without realizing it wont help.

Since then [1974] vegetables have become a real health threat GMO, Feces, Infected in mass-production, Chemicals, and agriculture related disters [drought etc] ...

It was a way for me to express pacifism as well, but I was uninformed, and hadnt done the math or run the models I have since then.

Being vegan can cause the subject damage as well, anemia, heart shrinkage, brain shrinkage, and other effects ppl should research before jumping.

I'm sorry, have I missed something? Where are humans forcibly confined to restrictive 'farms'? Where are they forcibly impregnated? Who is deciding that masses of people should be bred whether they like it or not? And to what practical purpose?

Considering that a meat diet uses 10 times as much land your allegations about an environmental disaster if everyone switched to a veg diet is incorrect particularly in the face of the FAO's conclusion that '"the livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global." I would chalk up your statements to simple inflammatory hyperbole.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environ..._vegetarianism

Whats more, pointing to GMO and feces tainting, as being a major threat of a vegetarian diet is ignoring two things which are 1. GMO is not the fault of the diet. It goes directly to human interferance and manipulations. and 2. the feces tainting is also not the fault of the vegetarian diet but again points to human error and lax attitudes regarding the oceans of animal waste that are created by the meat inclusive diet. The rest of your reasons for decrying a veg. diet also point to human error and stupidity but not to the efficacy of a world wide veg. diet.

A meat inclusive diet can cause a myriad of health problems, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, anemia, etc, and there is a world of evidence to prove that point and to do that I would simply remind you that 95% of the world eats meat and there is an epidemic of those diseases that are directly attributable to poor food choices. In fact, studies have shown that while vegans will still have the same rates of cancer, their rates of heart disease, obesity and diabetes are lower. Watch this presentation by Jack Norris who is a registered dietician and also a vegan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKa0kfN0LOY So pointing at the veg. diet as though it is the sole cause of your list of issues is false. Any diet can be healthy (veganism included) and any diet can be problematic.

[krishna]

All life is spiritual.
Nothing with a face will keep my form alive.
In pure light and truth.
Krishna.

[Chrysaetos]

Humans have been eating meat for thousands and thousands of years, it is natural and nutritious. Most of the health problems you mentioned are common in western countries, putting the blame on meat alone is thus simplistic and ignoring other variables (sugars anyone?).

''95%'' means little by itself when most people in third world countries only eat meat on occasions. I have been to various ''Islamic'' countries and meat is a holiday food for most people there, too expansive for Joe average. Also, I'm curious, what kind of ''meat diet causes 10 times as much land''? This is a vague statement.

Statements such as ''a meat diet causes'' and ''95% are meat eaters'' are by themselves vague statements that don't really tell us anything specific, nor are they helpful. They are useful for making generalizations though, something that is unfortunately seen all too often in the environmentalist movement.

Originally Posted by 7he4uthor

]Those in Peru who eat rabbit and guinea pic, those on coasts who eat fish
aboriginies who eat inescts and grubs ...

Imagine what would happen if Asian people gave up fish and were forced to get their protein from the land? It would mean even more Asian rainforests would be cut down for vegetarian products!

I agree with you that overpopulation is the real problem here. The problem is not that we eat meat, drive cars, take showers, or have a computer. The problem is that there are too many of us claiming resources, and one solution to tackle overpopulation is to provide education for all woman in third world countries. A change of diet on a global scale won't tackle the root of the problem.

You've made some good points and maybe I should have said that '95% of the developed world eat meat', because polls suggest that maybe 5% of the population embrace vegetarianism with a tiny percentage of that being vegan. I think that might be more accurate for the sake of the discussion. My error, sorry. But that doesn't change the fact that those disease issues mentioned earlier are rampant in these cultures and while various other factors are similar (grain eating, processed food consumption) in both the meat eating culture and the vegetarian culture, the major differentiating factor is that one group eats meat and the other does not. And yet the vegetarian group tends to have a greater life expectancy than the meat eating group and this has been studied out particularly with respect to the Seventh Day Adventist Church members. They've apparently been a subject of study for years to see what if any difference their lifestyle/eating habits have on life expectancy.

As for most hard core, committed vegans, well we are compulsive label readers (out of necessity) and as a result are not eating the glut of processed foods that everyone else is, so it could be easily said that our diet precludes a lot of the lifestyle diseases that we've come to know and love. I have read that our heart disease rates and obesity and diabetes rates are lower than the rates amongst meat eaters. And while there do appear to be some issues with a vegan dietary lifestyle, I think that as time passes and as our technology comes to grips with the reality of the current bad situation engendered by the food productions methods today, those issues will become less as knowledge increases. Personally, every day is seen as an opportunity to learn something new about my own health and how to maintain it and that's helped by the growing understanding and availability of outstanding info on the internet.

You know Chrysaetos, if the meat consumption in this and other developed countries wasn't of such epidemic proportions and if the food animals were actually treated with any kind of respect and compassion, and if other animals in labs and so on weren't abused and mutilated as if they didn't matter, there would be a lot less of the back and forth going on between the two camps. One might even find that many animal rightists would relax and be a little more just welfarists. But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the human population on any continent don't give a rats behind about anything other than what they want. And they want meat. To me this is symptomatic of a spiritually bankrupt and primitive population. And by primitive I mean simply people with the inability to extend mercy to anyone outside their family/societal circle. I feel that any indigineous group that is living day to day, taking only what they NEED, instead of gorging day after day on meat and various anima products is less primitive than our society. Typically those people have seen themselves as part of a whole, whereas so called civilized societies think themselves above all and with a right to do or take in excess, without regard. We civilized people act like spoiled children who expect that their 'wants' are all that matters. I would say that in context, the so-called primitives are behaving more like the adults in the global crowd. Primitive, childish, - interchangeable adjectives perhaps for the 'civilized' world?

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by krishna

All life is spiritual.
Nothing with a face will keep my form alive.
In pure light and truth.
Krishna.

Respect to you, dear Krishna, for your wise words and the purity of your heart.

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by DebbyM

You've made some good points and maybe I should have said that '95% of the developed world eat meat', because polls suggest that maybe 5% of the population embrace vegetarianism with a tiny percentage of that being vegan. I think that might be more accurate for the sake of the discussion. My error, sorry. But that doesn't change the fact that those disease issues mentioned earlier are rampant in these cultures and while various other factors are similar (grain eating, processed food consumption) in both the meat eating culture and the vegetarian culture, the major differentiating factor is that one group eats meat and the other does not. And yet the vegetarian group tends to have a greater life expectancy than the meat eating group and this has been studied out particularly with respect to the Seventh Day Adventist Church members. They've apparently been a subject of study for years to see what if any difference their lifestyle/eating habits have on life expectancy.

As for most hard core, committed vegans, well we are compulsive label readers (out of necessity) and as a result are not eating the glut of processed foods that everyone else is, so it could be easily said that our diet precludes a lot of the lifestyle diseases that we've come to know and love. I have read that our heart disease rates and obesity and diabetes rates are lower than the rates amongst meat eaters. And while there do appear to be some issues with a vegan dietary lifestyle, I think that as time passes and as our technology comes to grips with the reality of the current bad situation engendered by the food productions methods today, those issues will become less as knowledge increases. Personally, every day is seen as an opportunity to learn something new about my own health and how to maintain it and that's helped by the growing understanding and availability of outstanding info on the internet.

You know Chrysaetos, if the meat consumption in this and other developed countries wasn't of such epidemic proportions and if the food animals were actually treated with any kind of respect and compassion, and if other animals in labs and so on weren't abused and mutilated as if they didn't matter, there would be a lot less of the back and forth going on between the two camps. One might even find that many animal rightists would relax and be a little more just welfarists. But the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of the human population on any continent don't give a rats behind about anything other than what they want. And they want meat. To me this is symptomatic of a spiritually bankrupt and primitive population. And by primitive I mean simply people with the inability to extend mercy to anyone outside their family/societal circle. I feel that any indigineous group that is living day to day, taking only what they NEED, instead of gorging day after day on meat and various anima products is less primitive than our society. Typically those people have seen themselves as part of a whole, whereas so called civilized societies think themselves above all and with a right to do or take in excess, without regard. We civilized people act like spoiled children who expect that their 'wants' are all that matters. I would say that in context, the so-called primitives are behaving more like the adults in the global crowd. Primitive, childish, - interchangeable adjectives perhaps for the 'civilized' world?

There are other variables in play here as well. Vegetarians and vegans, because of their conscious decision not to eat meat (at least in western countries, I assume), will take more dedication to read labels and care about their health. In my pre-vegetarian years I did care about my health, though less. Many veg people in the west, as far as I'm aware, are educated and at least middle class. I doubt you'll find a lot of veg people in the western worker classes. Ironically, in non-western countries it can be the other way around.. the rich will gorge on endangered species and the poor can only afford meat during Ramadan.

As for better treatment for the farm animals.. that sounds good to me, but we do need more land for that as well, which again increases the problem. But as there's overpopulation of humans, there's in my opinion also an overpopulation of cows..! Too many big mammals in the farms. Maybe we should eat insects. Grasshopper farms, Debby. Spread the word..!

Most people only care for the survival of themselves and their close relatives.. honestly I can't blame anyone for that. I'm in many cases not really different and I'm fine with that. Hey, we're all using a computer as well. One individual may feel okay with a change of lifestyle but in the grand scheme of things it means little. What matters is if the individual is happy with the change. If it's a yes then all the more power to him/her..

It's good we live now and not in 2100 because regardless of whether you and me take on lifestyle changes, the zhit will hit the fan because resources will dwindle. Of course people will then fantasize about End Times, prophecies, religious bickering, ''Muslims take over the world'', earth-is-angry beliefs and what not.. they will create any sort of thrash but in the end it's all about competition for resources.

We are flawed creatures and your uneasiness with our race perhaps stems from the assumption that we ''can do so much better''. Our awareness led us to the idea of ''perfection''...

Perhaps we can do better though, but not for as long as there are too many of us.. with our increasing numbers and with it the increasing demand of resources we're just a time bomb.
We're actually too successful; technology, medicine, reciprocity.. All nice, all good, don't get me wrong there.. but at the same time they can also be our downfall. No species is flawless..