Why I'm not a Taoist

[Miss Hepburn]

ayar, hi,
Re John 11: No, the version where he didn't die. :)
My understanding of who Jesus was and said sometimes differs from mainstream Christianity so I say nothing...
I've learned to let Christians believe what they want --don't rock their boat.
But, no, Jesus is one person that has not communicated to me personally...
as he has with SO many! Gosh, so many.
I could give you a list in a pm of many things Jesus has said regarding the misquoting of him in the Bible...
and what he meant that has been misunderstood, for example.

(ok, I will say this one that John said to James E. Padgett...
-There was no way Jesus ever said, Abba why had you abandoned me - forsaken ...God never did and
the crowd was held back so far they could not have heard him say that anyway.

This 'not dying' is a spin off from previous posts...talk about veering off topic.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

I could give you a list in a pm of many things Jesus has said regarding the misquoting of him in the Bible...
and what he meant that has been misunderstood, for example.

I would like nothing better than a private one-on-one dialogue with you. I swore off doing this for a reason, and I owe you an explanation so that you know where I am coming from.

Firstly, "ayar" is a handle I use. It was the name of an urchin who pestered me in Chennai where I went to visit the Krishnamurti Foundation. He insisted on showing me around as my tourist guide for some rupees (I forget how many). I didn't need a guide but what the heck. A US dollar would have bought me a zillion rupees. I gave him a hundred for the tour and took his name. I am a yank.

I took early retirement ten years ago to seek "the deathless state". It wasn't easy. Giving up a career in a Fortune 500 company at the age of 35 to go to India was as difficult for my parents to take in as giving up the priesthood would be to them if I were the son of a devout Catholic couple in Sicily. To rub salt into his wound, I asked my father to bankroll me. He is a Wall Street fat cat, a venture capitalist. The rub is that he would not have an equity stake because I would be renouncing my relationship with him and mom. My spiritual quest required the ending of all personal relationships. I need to be mindful of the illusion of the self and avoid incarnating psychologically as one even to have a private conversation. I would become a person if I had to - to respond to the questions of a cop who had pulled me over, or to the cashier at a store.

I hope you understand.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Well, and then Jesus had his version of that!

Yes. Jesus did have his version of that Taoist expression (Eternal Life).

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 132 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ayar415

I took early retirement ten years ago to seek "the deathless state". It wasn't easy. Giving up a career in a Fortune 500 company at the age of 35 to go to India was as difficult for my parents to take in as giving up the priesthood would be to them if I were the son of a devout Catholic couple in Sicily.

I admire your intensity and sincerity and dedication to seeking the "deathless state". Wow !

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 132 EXCERPT:



I admire your intensity and sincerity and dedication to seeking the "deathless state". Wow !

Wow is right; but you don't seem to believe that I have found it. You think I am just messing around; otherwise, I wouldn't be in a spiritual forum bantering with you. Right?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by ayar415

You are incorrigible. I told you not to read lines in isolation but to reflect on them in context of the whole chapter.

If you are blind, you won't know what you are holding if you grab just the tail without checking out it's connection to the whole elephant.

We are advised not to post extensive quotes on this site and I don't have a link to the chapter in the book from which I quoted.

Besides, the quote ("Die without dying, and you'll endure forever.") stands on its own merits for those even remotely familiar with Tibetan Buddhism, Sufism, Yoga/Hinduism and, as Miss Hepburn pointed out, with Christianity as well.

However, as you wisely pointed out, "if you are blind" and don't see the Big Picture or a beginner, I agree that the one-liner would be insufficient and more details would indeed be needed.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Wow is right; but you don't seem to believe that I have found it. You think I am just messing around; otherwise, I wouldn't be in a spiritual forum bantering with you. Right?

I don't know. It can be very challenging to determine if one has indeed "found it".

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

We are advised not to post extensive quotes on this site and I don't have a link to the chapter in the book from which I quoted.

Besides, the quote ("Die without dying, and you'll endure forever.") stands on its own merits for those even remotely familiar with Tibetan Buddhism, Sufism, Yoga/Hinduism and, as Miss Hepburn pointed out, with Christianity as well.

Nothing stands on its own merits. There is no light without darkness. No here without there. No now without then. No me without you. Everything is relative. No absolutes.

Every chapter is on the internet. Not that it will do you any good since western translations are unreliable.

To respond to you (on Chapter 4) at the outset, I retrieved a file with some of my attempts, a few years ago, to translate the Tao Te Ching. I gave up on the project after a dozen chapters or so. Below are my commentary notes on Chapter 42. They brought back memories registering my frustration at trying to bridge the cultural divide.

Originally Posted by Ayar TTC

English words are very specific in their meanings. Thus, "orphan" is just that; and "widow" is a widow and not a spinster.
However, 孤 is not "orphan" although it is used for denoting an orphan in vernacular usage. Its root meaning is "being alone".
The same applies to 寡 which does not mean widow. It is more like "removed from social rank" that she had before as a wife, a person with social significance in Chinese society. A king or emperor would have the pronoun of 寡人, a royal personage removed from the general populace and has no social rank because, in his case, he is above the common herd.

It is true that people hate to be left out (like orphans), without social status (like widows), and have no socio-economic relevance in society. And yet, this is exactly the lot of the aristocrat - an exclusive life apart from the maddening crowd, and spared the misery of having to toil for a living.

[Miss Hepburn]

Wait a minute ---we have an ayar415 AND an Ayer TTC as members?

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Wait a minute ---we have an ayar415 AND an Ayer TTC as members?

OOPS. I had not noticed that either. Hmmmm.