Why I'm not enlightened

[sound]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Thanks but it doesn't do a whole lot of good realizing it now instead of then. I don't think it's even possible to realize what you're doing to people at the time when you're positive you have what everyone needs.

I beg to differ ... thats what foresight is about ... and, to my mind, that is experienced/developed by making realizations based on past experience ... hindsight has its value in that respect ... its all very insightful either way lol

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by sound

I beg to differ ... thats what foresight is about ... and, to my mind, that is experienced/developed by making realizations based on past experience ... hindsight has its value in that respect ... its all very insightful either way lol

If you 'know' you're right, how is it possible to consider you might be wrong? The tinted glasses filter everything. It's helpful later after you realize it, but at the time there's really nothing that will change your mind.

Ironic that this is all happening in the 'why I'm not enlightened' thread.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by peacegarden

Ironic that this is all happening in the 'why I'm not enlightened' thread.

I think it's good to elaborate on the topic, it has lots of facets to it. Having the spiritual truth for everyone goes deep into what it means to human. For me spirituality is about fearlessly looking at ourselves and not being afraid to be human.

Originally Posted by Henri77

Wish everyone would go hug a tree instead of debating something nobody agrees on.

Individual personal experience is real.
The rest is not worth debating, yet we do it anyway.

I see Xan started a party-thread to continue the serious minded discussion.
(I'm off to see the Wizard myself and have some fun in neverland)

I hear you Henri.
Yes individual personal experience is real and, I would add, valid. Such cynicism here is very disappointing and unbecoming on this forum.

With regard to you wanting to keep this thread light-hearted, as you mention, there is a serious thread for Enlightenment and Mindfulness - (with thanks and respect to Xan).

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=43199

[Seawolf]

I also think personal experience is very real. As the names implies, it's 'personal'. If someone has a different experience, it doesn't mean that they don't have the truth. That's called bigotry.

Originally Posted by Henri77

Wish everyone would go hug a tree instead of debating something nobody agrees on.

I don't see the point of wishing people would behave the way you want just because you have issues with debating or disagreements.
One of the benefits of conversing with people who have a different point of view is each person may expand theirs by exploring what the other sees.

Individual personal experience is real.
The rest is not worth debating, yet we do it anyway.

As i have stated numerous times now, and i am only assuming about others...i don't see anyone here disputing individual's experiences are not real.
What the dispute is about is when an individual claims their conclusionss from their real experiences are universal truths for everyone and they simply need to accept this truth.
Please try to comprehend the huge difference of that, instead of being emotionally compromised because you can't handle debating or disagreements..

I see Xan started a party-thread to continue the serious minded discussion.

~laughs~ well that's seems to be a contraction of terms, serious people going to have a party.
It seems to me that a party is about putting aside all seriousness for a while and just enjoying oneself in a care free fun atmosphere.

But then again, maybe by "party" you mean like a political group, of which makes more sense in that Xan has started another thread where true believers can go and indulge in their beliefs without harrassment from naysayers.
As one of the unicorns from here (Candy Mountain link)said..."Shun the non believers...shuuuuunnnnnn"

But what i also notice is the possible inferred judgement that those here that debate and disagree are not serious minded.

(I'm off to see the Wizard myself and have some fun in neverland)

Oh em gee. For starters, The Wizard is not part of the Peter Pan mythology, and second, the Wizard, once exposed, was not anything like he projected into the public arena.
So i find your Freudian Slip quite interesting.

Originally Posted by amy green

I hear you Henri.
Yes individual personal experience is real and, I would add, valid. Such cynicism here is very disappointing and unbecoming on this forum.

As i have stated numerous times now, and i am only assuming about others...i don't see anyone here disputing individual's experiences are not real.
What the dispute is about is when an individual claims their conclusions from their real experiences are universal truths for everyone and they simply need to accept this truth.
Please try to comprehend the huge difference of that.

Hey check out this definition of cynicism from this dictionary

Cynicism - a Greek philosophy of the 4th century B.C. advocating the doctrines that virtue is the only good, that the essence of virtue is self-control and individual freedom, and that surrender to any external influence is beneath the dignity of man.

Originally Posted by Seawolf

Thanks but it doesn't do a whole lot of good realizing it now instead of then. I don't think it's even possible to realize what you're doing to people at the time when you're positive you have what everyone needs.

If a person has experienced something and they are 100% convinced it's a universal truth for all,
and they have only experienced positive results from it, they are not going to entertain they may be doing anything harmful to others when they are sharing this wonderful news.
So there's no point in labeling these people as douchebags because they are doing what they are totally convinced is the best for others.
It's you and others who do not agree with their claims, interpret that these people are knowingly speading damaging lies, when they actually aren't according to their perception.

Plus, and yes, i am repeating myself yet again, how can another damage another simply by sharing information?
The only way incorrect information can be damaging to the listener is if they take it onboard and label it truth and use it in their life and thus a negative outcome will occur.
If the listener considers it's not truth and does not take it on board and use it in their life, that information has zero affect.

You and Gem have some issues about attacking a person just because they share info that you do not agree with.
The person sharing the info doesn't have an issue with sharing it because they believe it's the truth.
For some reason you both cannot see this. All you see is the person is a douchebag for sharing incorrect info.
But they do not see themself as that because they are convinced it's the truth.
Aka, stop attacking the person and focus on how to help them see the error in their conclusions iof you are so convinced they are wrong.

But i theorise one reason why people attack the person and not the info is that an effort has already been made to show them the error but they simply can't see any error, so out of frustration of failing to expose the error, personal attacking ensues.
Aka, if you can't discredit the message, discredit the messenger.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Seawolf

It's the same thing we did when I was with the proselytizing Christians. We knew we had the true experience and tried to get others to experience it so they could find God. We really screwed up a lot of people.

The thing is that the 'lower' parts of the mind are just as important as the spiritual part. Spirituality isn't necessarily what a person needs, we really have no idea what other people need.

What if in contrast...to whatever....it is ALL screwed up. Then screwed up people are screwing up screwed up people an noone is ever the wiser.