Global Warming & Deforestation – Do You Continue Doing Art?

Originally Posted by ImthatIm

I agree, I want to be hopeful in the future.


It's just monkey see monkey do. Most people want to have what others have
and the increasing population will put such a demand on the resources but
it is hard to know what will be the last straw that will start the snowball rolling
to a point of no return.
The lists of negative environmental impacts are long, long ,long.
There are even ones we don't know about yet.
The list's of environmental remediation are rather short.

Yes, we can't help but want to be hopeful. Yet the most troubling item on Lorelyen's list is perhaps number 6. People have been standing on the bow of the ship for years and yelling "ice berg". I don't know if other's just didn't want to hear, just had a feeling things were fine anyway, or were too busy dancing to the band and just were not paying attention. But one wonders now, even if people finally did stop dancing long enough to pay attention and did believe them, whether the ship could still be stopped or turned in time or if it is doomed regardless.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by ketzer

People have been standing on the bow of the ship for years and yelling "ice berg".

didn't you hear the news? The gloom and doom sayers have never been right in the past, therefore they never will be in the future!

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

didn't you hear the news? The gloom and doom sayers have never been right in the past, therefore they never will be in the future!

I thought I did hear something about that. It is true that many who have preached gloom and doom in the past, probably the vast majority, had no idea what it was they were talking about. The second coming, Armageddon, 2012 and the Mayan prophecies, the coming invasion of space lizards, who knows what else. Apparently the ever present red scare and imminent socialist takeover doesn't count as a gloom and doom story. Oh yeah, and you better go get another dozen guns as any day now it's going to be illegal to own them, just look how hard it has already become. This has been droning on since long before I was born. They used to tell stories about how black helicopters would fly around at night to scout the rural areas for the united nations troops who were planning an invasion to install one world government. The fact that all these goof nut conspiracy theories never come true doesn't put a dent in the wing nuts who peddle and believe them. Yet get a few thousand scientists to raise a concern and the goof nuts all break out in a belly laugh, or somehow link those scientists back to another conspiracy theory.

The thing that goes unconsidered is that there have been real doom and gloom scenarios the warnings of which were heeded. Silent spring led to controls on pesticides, giant holes in the ozone layer led to regulation of ozone depleting chemicals, the sterilization of lakes in the mountains of the eastern US led to scrubbers being installed on power plant smoke stacks. After all of those, the wing nuts who scoffed at the problems in the first place and argued there was no problem laughed and said "See, all that doom and gloom and nothing came of it." Gloom has not turned to doom because the science they scoff at, and the scientists they despise, have been able to keep one step ahead of it. But all along to get the resources to do that, and get the changes needed, they have had to deal with ignorant individuals who scoffed at them and told them all their fancy pants education and letters didn't mean anything, they just somehow knew better. It used to be just wing nuts scoffing in the peanut gallery, but lately it seems they are more and more emailing death threats to the scientists, or showing up to protest outside their homes or workplaces wearing flak jackets with assault rifles strapped to their chests. I am curious if the epidemiologists in other countries also have to have security details to keep from getting murdered during the pandemic? The obvious fact that the wing nuts themselves are the poster children for taking away their gun rights doesn’t seem to ever occur to them. They just somehow know they are right, all those egghead elitist academics and scientists are wrong, and they need to threaten them into submission, or kidnap and murder them if they can’t. It just boggles the mind.

IDK, I know I am being a gloom and doom'r myself, but the more I think about it the more it seems to me that it is a losing battle and this is just what the vast majority of intelligent life that evolves in the universe does. It self destructs in a few thousand years or so. Not even a full tick on the universe's clock. The up side is we don’t really have to ever worry about being invaded by space faring lizard people. Any species smart enough to figure out how to travel through space, would most likely have destroyed itself before it could get out of its own solar system. And even if it was intelligent enough not to destroy itself, it takes a long time to travel through space. Setting out on a journey to visit another intelligent life form figuring it won’t self-destruct before one arrives would be a rather irrational thing for a truly intelligent life form to do.

"Hey Gecko, should we head over and try to sell some insurance to those earthlings."

"No, I think not, in 15 minutes they are likely to self destruct anyway."

If so, then yeah, go ahead and do art. The band kept making music as the Titanic was going down, even though they probably knew what was coming. The engineer who designed the Titanic never claimed it was unsinkable, just very comparatively hard to sink. But the marketers who had no idea why a ship floats all said it was unsinkable and the space needed for lifeboats could be better utilized for paying passengers. Any first year engineering student would have been able to look at the blue prints and say “Well of course it can sink, just look at the way it is designed.” Yeah you need a long enough gash, it’s less likely then current ship designs, but it can definitely sink. Yet even the engineer who designed the ship was ignored.

“Whoo Hooo, full steam ahead and damn the icebergs, ignore those gloomy doomy ship engineers and scientists, we are unsinkable.”

“Wait, what’s that? We're sinking! Damn those engineers and scientists, I told you they didn’t know anything!”



Ahhhh! Thanks, I feel better now.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Any first year engineering student would have been able to look at the blue prints and say “Well of course it can sink, just look at the way it is designed.” Yeah you need a long enough gash, it’s less likely then current ship designs, but it can definitely sink. Yet even the engineer who designed the ship was ignored.

“Whoo Hooo, full steam ahead and damn the icebergs, ignore those gloomy doomy ship engineers and scientists, we are unsinkable.”

“Wait, what’s that? We're sinking! Damn those engineers and scientists, I told you they didn’t know anything!”



Ahhhh! Thanks, I feel better now.

ketzer wrote: "Any first year engineering student would have been able to look at the blue prints and say “Well of course it can sink, just look at the way it is designed.”"

I never came across a first year student that had the knowledge to make such an assessment. Do you know what Engineering classes a first year student takes that are related to Engineering?

Originally Posted by BigJohn

ketzer wrote: "Any first year engineering student would have been able to look at the blue prints and say “Well of course it can sink, just look at the way it is designed.”"

I never came across a first year student that had the knowledge to make such an assessment. Do you know what Engineering classes a first year student takes that are related to Engineering?

Yes John, I do know that.

Anyway John, I think I owe you a thankyou. What you just did there is a perfect demonstration of why more and more people are feeling less and less hopeful about the future. Why more and more scientists just through up their hands in disgust as they walk away shaking their heads and mumbling about talking to rocks.

Ecclesiastes 2:12-16
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...ersion=NLT;LEB

I say go ahead and do ones art. Let it express how you feel about this or anything else. Ironically, it may be the one thing that in the end turns out to not be meaningless to one's own soul.

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[BigJohn]

and what is your answer to "Do you know what Engineering classes a first year student takes that are related to Engineering?"

[BigJohn]

ketzer wrote: "Anyway John, I think I owe you a thankyou. What you just did there is a perfect demonstration of why more and more people are feeling less and less hopeful about the future. Why more and more scientists just through up their hands in disgust as they walk away shaking their heads and mumbling about talking to rocks."

There seems to be some disconnect in what I wrote and your reply.


How does "ketzer wrote: "Any first year engineering student would have been able to look at the blue prints and say “Well of course it can sink, just look at the way it is designed.”"

I never came across a first year student that had the knowledge to make such an assessment. Do you know what Engineering classes a first year student takes that are related to Engineering?" relate to what you wrote?

Originally Posted by BigJohn

ketzer wrote: "Anyway John, I think I owe you a thankyou. What you just did there is a perfect demonstration of why more and more people are feeling less and less hopeful about the future. Why more and more scientists just through up their hands in disgust as they walk away shaking their heads and mumbling about talking to rocks."

There seems to be some disconnect in what I wrote and your reply.


How does "ketzer wrote: "Any first year engineering student would have been able to look at the blue prints and say “Well of course it can sink, just look at the way it is designed.”"

I never came across a first year student that had the knowledge to make such an assessment. Do you know what Engineering classes a first year student takes that are related to Engineering?" relate to what you wrote?

Simple physics John.

Tell me John, what is the knowledge that in your opinion a first year engineering student could not have known that would have allowed them to make such an assessment.

In fact never mind first year engineering students.

Even a simple class in high school physics is likely to cover Archimedes principle. Not exactly a new scientific concept. Hydrostatics, statics, it's not new stuff John.

Archimedes of Syracuse
c. 287 – c. 212 BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP7BWb1ndpA

Of course if one doesn't believe in science, then they might not have heard of it, or if they did, might have scoffed at that crazy scientism dogma. Ice bergs, iron, buoyancy, sinking, what non-sense, they were sure everything was going to be just fine. And anyway, they had a good feeling about it to prove it.

Anyway, it can all be diss-proven with a bit of scribbling on the back of a cocktail napkin. Equations treat everything equally, you just need to manipulate one side in the right way to get the results you want on the other side.

A + B X C -D = $$ while A + B X C = $$$$

Hard to argue with that math, especially if you get one of those $ for your very own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftMvabKDuiA

Anyway, math, science, Bernoulli principle, it's all a bunch of hog wash. You don't need science to soar, just look at the birds and go with your gut. Silly scientists and their scientism!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je8wxnoEkug



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[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by ketzer

Simple physics John.

Tell me John, what is the knowledge that in your opinion a first year engineering student could not have known that would have allowed them to make such an assessment.

In fact never mind first year engineering students.

Even a simple class in high school physics is likely to cover Archimedes principle. Not exactly a new scientific concept. Hydrostatics, statics, it's not new stuff John.

Archimedes of Syracuse
c. 287 – c. 212 BC

Of course if one doesn't believe in science, then they might not have heard of it, or if they did, might have scoffed at that crazy scientism dogma. Ice bergs, iron, buoyancy, sinking, what non-sense, they were sure everything was going to be just fine. And anyway, they had a good feeling about it to prove it.

Anyway, it can all be diss-proven with a bit of scribbling on the back of a cocktail napkin. Equations treat everything equally, you just need to manipulate one side in the right way to get the results you want on the other side.

A + B X C -D = $$ while A + B X C = $$$$

Hard to argue with that math, especially if you get one of those $ for your very own.

Anyway, math, science, Bernoulli principle, it's all a bunch of hog wash. You don't need science to soar, just look at the birds and go with your gut. Silly scientists and their scientism!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je8wxnoEkug

.

If you were knowledgeable about Engineering, first year Engineering students do not take, for the most part, core Engineering classes in the first year. Normally, Mechanical Engineering classes begin in the 3rd year.

Therefore, a 1st year Engineering student would not have the knowledge to be able to claim the Titanic would sink because of its design.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

If you were knowledgeable about Engineering, first year Engineering students do not take, for the most part, core Engineering classes in the first year. Normally, Mechanical Engineering classes begin in the 3rd year.

Therefore, a 1st year Engineering student would not have the knowledge to be able to claim the Titanic would sink because of its design.

I owe you another thankyou John. Once again you have served as the perfect demonstration of why so many scientists just throw up their hands in disgust and walk off shaking their heads.

I just showed you that even a simple class in high school physics would give one the knowledge needed to understand why the Titanic was not "unsinkable". I even linked to the clip in the movie where they did a very good job of explaining why.

Mechanical engineering may come in handy when designing a ship John. But it is not remotely necessary to understand that a ship made of iron can sink. Especially if the air tight compartments are not actually air tight. Do an experiment for me John. Float a jar in the sink with the lid on. Twirl it around upside down. You can't sink it can you John? Now take the top off a jar and float it in the sink. Then tilt the jar until the water comes in and watch while enough water pours in for the jar to sink. There ya go John, now you know why the Titanic sank, and you didn’t even need that high school physics.

But understanding that is not your objective is it John? Your objective is to desperately prove me wrong by twisting anything I say in any way you can. Misconstruing words and the point of my post, that is the art you are practicing, and frankly John you are just not very good at it. You are much more transparent than you think here John, but only to those who do not share in your desired objective.

To be fair John, an iceberg was not responsible for the death of all those people on the Titanic, nor was the Atlantic ocean, and nor was the ship's designer entirely responsible either. You certainly can’t blame poor Archimedes either John. The ice, water, iron, and physics were just facts John. They weren't the ones pushing the misinformation, the “alternative fact” that the ship couldn’t sink, doing so for objectives of their own. They weren’t the ones deciding to leave half the lifeboats behind John. Can you guess who I think was mostly responsible for all those deaths way back then. They are alive and well today John, they just have different names, and spread different misinformation, and count money in different denominations, but they are still at work plying their craft.

Cancer occurs in the body when one cell decides it doesn’t love God, nor does it love it’s neighbor cells as much as it loves itself. It occurs because that cell decides to do what it believes is in its own interests alone, and the rest of the cells can sink or swim on their own.

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