Science Makes God Unnecessary

Originally Posted by AngelBreeze

Hello CuriousSnowflake,

Actually, whether you wish to declare it openly or not, He is your God too inasmuch as He created you, that much is an undeniable fact.

Having said that, as to a 'limited viewpoint', well, it is always interesting to read defensive comments such as yours when the shoe is on the other foot. You see, there can be no denying that some people love to bash Christians for our beliefs, and speaking about 'limited little god', we just have to point to their limited little intelligence whenever they speak that way.

As to deriving joy in others being wrong, you are very wrong in that, my dear. Actually, it is very sad what will ultimately happen to infidels as God has proclaimed will happen without Salvation. That is why this thread has provoked such a response, to fully discuss the fact that there very much is a God, in the hope that there are some people, and I'm sure there are, who will see that what is being said here is simply echoing what is in the Holy Bible which is to their benefit as they may not be fully aware of these very crucial things concerning their Salvation. But perhaps you personally don't want it to be to your benefit, or to consider Salvation since that may be your personal choice, but others who come to read this thread from across the world and who may not even be members, may feel very differently and may indeed wish to learn more for a better informed decision other than to only read that there is no need for God, etc.

Concerning my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yes, He did hang on the cross but not just for me but for you too, only I suppose you don't care to acknowledge that. He came to Save mankind from sin and accomplished that great task as no one ever had before or has since. And He resurrected as attested by people who saw Him three days afterward. There is absolutely no one in the world today, or in the past, who can compare with Jesus Christ and all He accomplished in his short 33 years on this earth. It is because of His Love for humanity that He allowed those terrible things to happen to Him. But there is one thing that in His great mercy He will not allow....

That thing is that no one can enter into Heaven or be Saved without first becoming Born Again (and I can show you the Scriptures if you wish to see them.) If it were not so, He would have told us there was another way, only there isn't! The Way To Heaven and Salvation Is Only Through Him! That is why when people keep saying there is no God, or that Science makes God unnecessary, etc. and they find out that in actuality He does exist when they pass on and get to see Him in spirit, I would like to simply be there to see their reaction after being told time and time again that He indeed exists yet they kept insisting just the opposite. I would simply like to see their reaction and hear their response, that's all. And that would be so as to see that they now Believed.

And because I do care about everyone's Salvation, something that we Christians have been told we should care about, and to go out into the world and declare this (there are Biblical references to this as well), when a thread such as this one deserves correction, it is imperative to provide those corrections in order to show the other side to the matter. Anything less would be a dereliction of our Christian duty. Now, I too receive comments such as yours but that's alright if someone else will be Saved before it is too late! If that will happen, whatever would have been said would certainly have been worth it by comparison, I am proud to say!

As to my Savior's 'mindset', as a follower I say again that I too want people to be Saved! There can be absolutely no doubt about that. And if even one person stops to listen and becomes Saved and learns there IS a God, unlike what this thread wants them to believe, then it would have all been worth it! Though I feel many will become Saved in time before their transition, they still have their Free Will to do as they choose and reject Salvation and ultimately go to their appointed place other than with God, whom I suppose they would not want to be with anyway.

Sometimes we Christians must use "tough love" in order to get our point across. But many people do listen and that may be the only way that they will listen, but if they do and see that there is a great alternative to their present way of thinking based even on the things they read in this thread from your side, and find out that Salvation COSTS NOTHING but to say a prayer to God to become Born Again and give their life to Jesus, especially If they have started questioning things, who knows...they may just be looking for these words to heed and then this discourse would have served its purpose!

If one does not desire Salvation or belief in God, then that is their free will choice I will say again. But they do deserve to hear our side of things as well for balance in forums such as these.

But I just have to wonder, under the circumstances, what does your way of thinking offer people in the way of Eternal Salvation that they just might be seeking?

With prayers and peace to everyone through Jesus Christ!

I feel that I must state that we are all connected by the same consciousness that was created by Source. It is now better understood that all is connected, not by your god but through consciousness. You chose to call the Creator god and I chose to call it Source or the Absolute Unbounded Oneness. Its all good however as we all find ourselves upon passing, in the same mental plane of existence. Some will vibrate with a higher frequency others with a lower one. Some will go on to experience higher levels of awareness others not so much.

There are realms set aside for believers but I must say they are in the lower existences of realities. I don't make this stuff up as I get it from a nonphysical source. I know what you are going to say and I can't blame you because you are certainly a believer. I really must say that your prayers are not answered by your god or Jesus, but by the intent that you give them in conjunction with universal laws. Its simply the law of cause and effect. Positive brings positive and negative brings negative its the law. One cannot have negative thoughts and expect positive returns. Its the Law of Attraction, the law of Cause and Effect, the Law of Reciprocity,The Law of Polarity, The Law of Rhythm, The Law of Correspondence, The Law of Divine Oneness and The Law of Perpetual Transmutation of Energy. I don't believe you've heard these in church but they are universal laws.

I've already heard the response from many other believers but please chose to respond if you wish. I do not wish to change you as you have obviously chosen this path. While I don't like to quote the bible as there are so many obvious contradictions, but there is a reminder and that is you shall know the truth and the truth will set you free. If you read the bible with an eye for the metaphysical, you will get the true meaning of what Jesus really wanted you to know. As Jesus was a very astute metaphysician, a great prophet but not the martyr christians make him out to be. You also state that we need to hear you out, now thats quite interesting as thats about all we have heard for the past 2,000 years.

It is also stated that "My people perish from the lack of knowledge." However it is comforting to know that we will never perish as we are infinite individual units of consciousness. We are all connected by the Law of Divine Oneness, each is connected to the collective consciousness from Source.

[Perry J]

Hi,
I posted this link here before, but I think it was "buried"...

Instead of entering an endless arguing, could you have a look? This is brilliant: Beyond Science and Religion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQEVQBOj60

Originally Posted by Perry J

Hi, I posted this link here before, but I think it was "buried"...
Instead of entering an endless arguing, could you have a look? This is brilliant: Beyond Science and Religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUQEVQBOj60

Thanks for re-posting that Perry. I watched it, and there is a lot of good stuff in there. It definitely illustrates pretty well how the reactive cycle between science and the church began or is perpetuated. I'm not sure it offers a solution, though clearly the narrator is demonstrating an admirable point of view that allows for both merit and weakness on both sides.

I don't personally think science and god need to be at odds. I've said it before in this thread, since religion and god are beliefs that point to meaning, there is no reason a certain thing can not have been both created by god and explained by science. They are not mutually exclusive ideas.

In this video, I love the idea of being "intellectually honest" as a personal ethic. I know that's what I strive for. But my favorite quote from the clip is this:

"The driving force behind all progress is that we ask questions that go beyond our existing knowledge; our existing belief systems..."

Thanks again!

[Perry J]

Originally Posted by DulcePoetica

Thanks for re-posting that Perry. I watched it, and there is a lot of good stuff in there. It definitely illustrates pretty well how the reactive cycle between science and the church began or is perpetuated. I'm not sure it offers a solution, though clearly the narrator is demonstrating an admirable point of view that allows for both merit and weakness on both sides.

I don't personally think science and god need to be at odds. I've said it before in this thread, since religion and god are beliefs that point to meaning, there is no reason a certain thing can not have been both created by god and explained by science. They are not mutually exclusive ideas.

In this video, I love the idea of being "intellectually honest" as a personal ethic. I know that's what I strive for. But my favorite quote from the clip is this:

"The driving force behind all progress is that we ask questions that go beyond our existing knowledge; our existing belief systems..."

Thanks again!

Wow! Thank you, you too! Kim Michaels have done other excellent videos in the same style. I can recommend them all. For example "The Ongoing revolution in consciousness"

Originally Posted by DulcePoetica

Thanks for re-posting that Perry. I watched it, and there is a lot of good stuff in there. It definitely illustrates pretty well how the reactive cycle between science and the church began or is perpetuated. I'm not sure it offers a solution, though clearly the narrator is demonstrating an admirable point of view that allows for both merit and weakness on both sides.

I don't personally think science and god need to be at odds. I've said it before in this thread, since religion and god are beliefs that point to meaning, there is no reason a certain thing can not have been both created by god and explained by science. They are not mutually exclusive ideas.

In this video, I love the idea of being "intellectually honest" as a personal ethic. I know that's what I strive for. But my favorite quote from the clip is this:

"The driving force behind all progress is that we ask questions that go beyond our existing knowledge; our existing belief systems..."

Thanks again!

Greetings DulcePoetica!

This will be short as my time is very limited these days being that I am actively engaged in the work I do to help others, but I did want to pause and at least comment on the following statement that you made. And there is someone here in this thread who has posted that they apparently do not want to read any more long arguments, so this will not be one of them.

"I don't personally think science and god need to be at odds. I've said it before in this thread, since religion and god are beliefs that point to meaning, there is no reason a certain thing can not have been both created by god and explained by science. They are not mutually exclusive ideas."

I do feel as you do that science and God should not need to be at odds. And yes, I further agree that the acceptance of a certain thing to have been created by God should be able to be explained by science. However, the problem lies in the fact that many scientists are non-Believers and want to work only with empirical evidence while many know full well that the spiritual things God does cannot normally be explained by science, therefore, the thought of God entering the picture to be explained by them (scientists) is something many do not appear to wish to entertain as a possibility. Why? I wish I knew other than perhaps they wish to just stick to their particular genre' to explain things or they cannot by any other means since they would be working with the spiritual.

Therefore, while your belief and perhaps that of many others is that "They are not mutually exclusive ideas.", I know that these two very distinct areas are, in effect, a dichotomy since there does not appear to be much common ground between the two, at least at this point. Therein lies the problem in finding that common ground to accept and merge the two.

Thanks. Those are my thoughts on that. Now I must get back to my work.

Have a wonderful day!

Originally Posted by CuriousSnowflake

Trust me, I ain't Beckham. I respond to people's discussions as they respond to me. Those who are respectful, I respect. Those who are judgmental, I judge them right back. We seem to disagree, but you also seem to be thoughtful and intelligent, so I think it would be enjoyable to delve into our disagreements in a gentlemanly (or ladylike) fashion.

You seem to believe that a universal religion is the only hope for peace on our planet. I believe that our personalities and our cultures are too disparate for something like that to work, and I also believe that any kind of universalism, save universal freedom, is bound to fail because it violates the basic nature of humanity. I believe the basic nature of humanity is individuality, and the purpose of life is to define ourselves as individuals. I would like to discuss this further, and I promise that if you do so, I will leave my cleats in my locker.

CS

It is safe to say that without security any form of universal freedom is impossible. True freedom comes from stable circumstances.

Science is a lame child trying to be God.

Originally Posted by Blaze

Science is a lame child trying to be God.

Warm greetings, Blaze!

As to your statement, above, I can't argue with that!!

Have a wonderful day!

Originally Posted by AngelBreeze

Warm greetings, Blaze!

As to your statement, above, I can't argue with that!!

Have a wonderful day!

Thank you. And you too!

Originally Posted by Blaze

Thank you. And you too!

Hi Blaze!

You're welcome! Thank YOU for your great post!! That's telling it the way it is!

Many Blessings to you, dear friend!