The Legend Of Oneness

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..

Let go of your beliefs about 'self', you're fighting your own beliefs.. i'm not attached to 'self' being right, wrong, real, or not.. it is a useful description of the processes that are occurring, so yes.. there is a uniquely manifested part of the whole that has evolved a 'self' identity, and it chooses.. in stillness, the 'self' is simply experiencing with clarity, with no need to influence its selfness upon the flow of Life happening.. it does not vanish as you suppose, you are simply too preoccupied with Life happening too notice that it happening through 'you', your 'self'..

Be well..

doesn't take a still mind to notice that self is discontinous.
It vanishes several times on the daily basis.
Examine your waking hours. There are many gaps when you lose yoir self in the midst of acticites and yet you cannot say you are not conscious.
So where is fhe self in that moment other that a recalled reference from your memory.
So the self yojr talking about even when it is not there and absent in your consciousness is not an actual self but a mere mental abstraction

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

We can learn about ourselves in a way that is not conceptual. The "I", the "me" exists in relationship to it's ideas, feelings, thoughts, experiences, families, etc and it is in those relationships that each of us can come to see what we are made of.

Agreed. The goal is to know yourself in a way that is not conceptual. But everything discussed with words on a forum is a concept.

I think that what you are made of is what it is , rather than your relationship to the things you listed

We can know our story and we can see the futility in thinking that we can know anything else.
I discuss these things to come to that place together. That place of not knowing.

Well, I'd say this story is a concept, so I'm a little confused when you say this after saying that you can come to know yourself in a way that is not conceptual.

also, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong about discussing these things, I just wish some weren't so assertive about "what they know" that "others dont know" and picking things apart semantically

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

Agreed. The goal is to know yourself in a way that is not conceptual. But everything discussed with words on a forum is a concept.

I think that what you are made of is what it is , rather than your relationship to the things you listed



Well, I'd say this story is a concept, so I'm a little confused when you say this after saying that you can come to know yourself in a way that is not conceptual.

also, I wouldn't say there's anything wrong about discussing these things, I just wish some weren't so assertive about "what they know" that "others dont know" and picking things apart semantically

What I mean is recognizing that "I" am my relationships. My feelings/thoughts, etc define the "I" that is me. It isn't 'what is' so it can't know what it is.
All "I" can do is see itself and in that seeing it is exposed. I believe when this exposed self sees the light, be it in others or in something said, something changes in the mind allowing it to not be stuck in knowing......

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by hybrid

doesn't take a still mind to notice that self is discontinous.
It vanishes several times on the daily basis.
Examine your waking hours. There are many gaps when you lose yoir self in the midst of acticites and yet you cannot say you are not conscious.
So where is fhe self in that moment other that a recalled reference from your memory.
So the self yojr talking about even when it is not there and absent in your consciousness is not an actual self but a mere mental abstraction

Yes but even still.........all this discontinous self can do is see this and no further.

It can't be the stillness or be the silent awareness.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

Yes but even still.........all this discontinous self can do is see this and no further.

It can't be the stillness or be the silent awareness.

Yes it cannot be
by its own nature self is a reflected image.
And reflection by its own nature is a MOVEMENT

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Xan

hmmm... This response is a whole lot more complicated than the question I asked, Buzz. But oh well.


Xan

It just may be that you percieve it as complicated.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

All you really ever see on this forum is people debating about what "is" and what "isnt" and whats "one" and whats "not one"

What is "self" and what is not "self"

Everything we share here is a concept, no matter how self-evident you believe it to be. Nothing we can say on the forum is the absolute truth. We are using words to point to concepts and experiences. Symbols.

I hope that we can quit asserting what "we know" and what "others dont know" and just share.

Because in discussion forums words are tbe currency.
So it cannot be helped to conceptualize.
The next best thing i suppose is to strive to make our concepts as consistent with actualities as possible or if youur a practical man, useful to you to the least.
While self is just a concept. Some want to eternalize it becauseits a very comforting belief.

It may be suprising to some that an absence in the belief of self is more attuned to what is than a strong belief in the self.

As to the your last statement. What is the use of sharing if we both have knowledge of the same thing. Isnt sharing is exactly that? Tell me what you know and ill tell you what i know?

I was aiming it towards the instances where we get into debates and arguments over what we think someone is misunderstanding in comparison to what we understand more than them

When I say that everything that we share on the forums is a symbol and not the actual truth, the reason I say that is because I often see people picking apart what others are saying and telling them that they are "still conceptualizing" and "not getting it" when it's just a matter of semantics, that we have to use symbols to explain what we mean.

I hear a lot that some things are "self evident" and should be taken as truth, but that other things are "made up stories". I am trying to point out that both are merely concepts. What is - is.

I agree with sharing what we know, and while you may not always agree with another. Coming from a condescending stand point is not helpful, and it certainly has nothing to do with sharing, but everything to do with pleasing our ego.

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

I was aiming it towards the instances where we get into debates and arguments over what we think someone is misunderstanding in comparison to what we understand more than them

When I say that everything that we share on the forums is a symbol and not the actual truth, the reason I say that is because I often see people picking apart what others are saying and telling them that they are "still conceptualizing" and "not getting it" when it's just a matter of semantics, that we have to use symbols to explain what we mean.

I hear a lot that some things are "self evident" and should be taken as truth, but that other things are "made up stories". I am trying to point out that both are merely concepts. What is - is.

I agree with sharing what we know, and while you may not always agree with

another. Coming from a condescending stand point is not helpful, and it certainly has nothing to do with sharing, but everything to do with pleasing our ego.

I like the spirit of what you are saying here Quinn. I see the exchanges here as a work in progress, an evolution. Where it goes is anybodies guess but lately even amongst the posturing and infighting there seems to be surfacing a comradery within the corps. Maybe this is just my wishfull thinking but there is an element of mutual respect surfacing.
There are some types of discussion that I choose not to get involved with. These are the self serving, circular debates that simply suck up way too much time to be worth any great benefit.
However, the real good stuff in places like this happens under the words. Almost like an osmosis effect. The straight out interchanging of thoughts and concepts simply appears as a kind of opening act for the mainevent, which to me is an intuitive sharing of realities.

[hybrid]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

I was aiming it towards the instances where we get into debates and arguments over what we think someone is misunderstanding in comparison to what we understand more than them

When I say that everything that we share on the forums is a symbol and not the actual truth, the reason I say that is because I often see people picking apart what others are saying and telling them that they are "still conceptualizing" and "not getting it" when it's just a matter of semantics, that we have to use symbols to explain what we mean.

I hear a lot that some things are "self evident" and should be taken as truth, but that other things are "made up stories". I am trying to point out that both are merely concepts. What is - is.

I agree with sharing what we know, and while you may not always agree with another. Coming from a condescending stand point is not helpful, and it certainly has nothing to do with sharing, but everything to do with pleasing our ego.

i'm sorry that i cannot share your sensebilities to condescending posts.