how do you talk about mindfulness?

[Maisy]

I think the physical world can be a place to do great "evil" or great good. But both the evil and the good happen in the now. But I think then the effects of such may go on for centuries in the minds of human beings which typically are rooted in history and the past. Inside the box of the physical world one can find their true nature and love and peace or their false nature and hate and violence and conflict. The now is where it all happens. One can only find nirvana now.

That saying "In zen, we don’t find the answers. We lose the questions."

I think often the answer is found in the examination of the question. What is mindfulness? Who asks! What exactly is the one asking? What are they imagining is the situation? It could be the situation is not what is imagined. One may attempt to move from a premise accepted as fact which is not true.

A horse cannot get into it's own saddle no matter how hard it "tries." Can "I" be mindful right here and right now? May depend what that "I" is. Typically I think the "I" is rooted in history and the past. The past cannot know the now as it is. If someone truly does not know something, how would they know it was not already present? But then if somebody holds to an "idea" of something, could be nothing ever meets that known.

If someone says, "I am not in mindfulness" how do they know this? Perhaps they are in it! Is now whatever we imagine it to be? Whatever we think it to be? What is it, the now, when we are not imagining or thinking?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

True, that makes sense. So are you saying, when this light clear feeling is felt, feeling the subtlest aspects in that feeling, you might source what? (As an example)

The good thing about mindfulness which differentiates it from other kinds of meditation is there is no imagination - I mean there is no intentional imagination. The mind tends to fabricate imagination unintentionally, swaying from memory to future and reacting to everything etc, but there is no intentional imagination such as visualisation, mantra, praying etc. in mindfulness.

There was talk of prayer beads earlier in the thread, which I'm not against, but these things have been allowed where they don't actually belong, and if they insist on taking the name 'mindfulness' to describe that, we just need a new name for the meditation which excludes all of those things. I understand people don't like this, because there's attachment to beads, scriptures, prayers, rituals and so forth, and we are supposed to be nice and say anything goes, but what I call 'mindfulness' is a very specific thing - awareness of reality as you experience it.

We're taking things away from the mind so there's only awareness within reality. 'Buddha' is the quality of enlightenment in yourself, it's outside of the world of mind and matter, and 'the final goal' is conscious awareness of your inherent enlightenment.

I would argue that Nirvana is you just as you are now, which means it has little to do with practice. That contact happens suddenly and by accident and you realise your nature is like pure love, whereas 'the path' is a more deliberate progression from the dense physical surface to the deep and subtle that opens those depths to the light of conscious awareness and purifies the life-form to the deepest levels allowing the infinite outpouring to flow through.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

We're taking things away from the mind so there's only awareness within reality. 'Buddha' is the quality of enlightenment in opens those depths to the light of conscious awareness. and purifies the life-form to the deepest levels allowing the infinite outpouring of love to flow through.

Yes purification is how I see this. The contact that you mention, all the same, doesn’t imply the process of purification is complete. It may simply mean you’re aware of it and progression leads you back if you suddenly find yourself feeling removed or disconnected. Those perceived notions often occur because your inner balance says otherwise. Hence the mind once more deciding through your process that you’re ‘not connected’.

I’ve had to learn to let go of all tools to truly see how I held on in all ways those tools kept me from diving deeper. I think that’s important to mention.
So when you say infinite outpouring of love, how do you see this is reflected as a real life experience? As an integrated human?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

how do you see this is reflected as a real life experience? As an integrated human?

I'm not a really loving person, not that open, and not that expressive, so it isn't prominent in my RL experience, but from deep down I see everything with love.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not a really loving person, not that open, and not that expressive, so it isn't prominent in my RL experience, but from deep down I see everything with love.

That fits perfectly. I think we get lots of opportunities throughout our life to express ourselves through how we see. Sometimes we don’t. The expression of love can be expressed through how we tend to a garden, repair something broken, recreate something anew. Be brutally honest. Be unashamedly you.



Where I am now in myself is really not about me being or doing anything. Even as I am very open, seeing everything with love (compassion and understanding mostly, loving kindness more so than love on its own ) I’m not running around hugging every body. I can express love but often in being so open now, I’m aware of life as it is, hence, a smile, kindness, helping hand, support, silence, say nothing, discernment-listen deeply to the call etc etc. is how my humanness moves through life. Each piece of life has its own needs. What I am and feel in myself now simply means I can be myself in my garden, patting the neighbours dog, ignoring behaviours that require silence ( silence a part of my love) ..( which I’m aware it’s not my job to let them contemplate, but my silence supports it.

Anyhow I’m rambling. A lot of people around me is not how they see love. Most are loving on the surface but not clear deeper. So love entangles, shows what’s missing, puts on a brave face even when they are miserable.

When you see and feel it all, it’s really that centre ( I see and feel) that shows the way..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

That fits perfectly. I think we get lots of opportunities throughout our life to express ourselves through how we see. Sometimes we don’t. The expression of love can be expressed through how we tend to a garden, repair something broken, recreate something anew. Be brutally honest. Be unashamedly you.



Where I am now in myself is really not about me being or doing anything. Even as I am very open, seeing everything with love (compassion and understanding mostly, loving kindness more so than love on its own ) I’m not running around hugging every body. I can express love but often in being so open now, I’m aware of life as it is, hence, a smile, kindness, helping hand, support, silence, say nothing, discernment-listen deeply to the call etc etc. is how my humanness moves through life. Each piece of life has its own needs. What I am and feel in myself now simply means I can be myself in my garden, patting the neighbours dog, ignoring behaviours that require silence ( silence a part of my love) ..( which I’m aware it’s not my job to let them contemplate, but my silence supports it.

Anyhow I’m rambling. A lot of people around me is not how they see love. Most are loving on the surface but not clear deeper. So love entangles, shows what’s missing, puts on a brave face even when they are miserable.

When you see and feel it all, it’s really that centre ( I see and feel) that shows the way..

Sure, I use the word 'love' pretty loosely, and the idea it's my nature is more like a figure of speech than a true fact. I think when it's natural to have the deep wish for happiness, you feel a bit more inclined to do favours, so I offer people stuff I think they'll appreciate, and if they say yes, I'll do it the best. I noticed my neighbour's nature strip was getting way out of hand, so I texted and said I'd be happy to tidy it all up. It's a corner house so there's double the nature strip and it was up to knee high. It so happened her husband, who usually mows, is overseas for a while and won't be back for a few weeks, so she was glad. Then I got all my cool tools out and spent 4 hours getting it perfect. Now it's cut an edged, all their front wallings are clear and the gutters on the road are all cleaned out and weeded. Last touch, I sprayed some tough weeds growing in the tar and on their paved driveway, so over the next couple of weeks it'll keep getting better. She's chuffed with it because it's never been done pro with cut edges and clean drains before, and all blown clean at the end. I'm also satisfied because i like doing that and it's simply flawless work, but I do it just for the dynamic of generosity and appreciation, and get positivity working.

[JustBe]

You’re a good neighbour..bet it looks beautiful.

We stayed in a really beautiful farm stay ( old dairy) it was so meticulous and so many thoughtful touches. Very homely and you could feel the love oozing all over this new creation set up for others.

In return I left it the same way. Both got to share in the love.. she was very thankful as were we.

[Gem]

I don't like too much talk, so I don't really like too much flustering about, Like I carry my own water because everyone always offers me water, and they want to talk about plants and stuff while I'm thinking, 'this is a lot of work and I've only got so much time'. Like my sister's place. I just turn up every couple of weeks, do the things and leave. Her garden is a bit run down because hubby used to be a bit of a gardener but he's gone and she's a single mum of 4, which is basically a taxi driver. I'm thinking it could do with a makeover this winter. I don't feel like I have to talk to my nephews and nieces too much to have a close relationship, but distant and close if you know what I mean. I fell as if an uncle has a place, and a different place if he has no little cousins in the mix. The eldest girl has gotten into the top soccer team here, so I'm going to support a few games out of my own athletic interest, and generally speaking, I think it's good for all of them to have a masculine role model turn up occasionally - especially a silent, distant type - and I like the mere fact that they are there, too.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm not a really loving person,

I don't think anyone is. But I think their true selves are.

I think when we refer to ourselves, using words like "I" "I'm" "Me" etc we are not really being specific. I think as far as reality and what continues after we leave this body is what we really are which is conscious awareness. The one looking, the one experiencing, the one watching, seeing, tasting, hearing, thinking, observing.

But I think here's the thing, the what we really are is always kind and good and loving in a real divine loving way. Our pure conscious awareness. True self, true nature, soul, etc lots of names for it from various sources. Our true self or nature is merged with a physical form, this human body with all of it's hormones, and drives, and the computer like brain with it thought production, reactions, chemical production, it attaches, it generates emotions and on and on. It gets pleasures of many kinds. Not only pleasure from the senses, it gets pleasure though putting down others, feeling superior to others, from "winning" over others. Pleasure from fulfilling its desires.

So I don't think anybody is really a loving person completely when merged and doing all this THROUGH a physical body form. The highest form of love is never selfish. Like you watch couples break up, they go from love to hate in a nano second. Was it real love then? What we call love is not really love most times, not divine love, if conditions are present it's not divine love. Normally we want something in return for our "love" which means it is not really divine love. Divine love is not conditional on getting something in return. In getting some kind of self centered pleasure from it.

But I think that's the point of a spiritual path. I recognize I am not a good person. I say and do bad things on auto-pilot. But if I am aware, in each moment, aware of what I (brain) may think (which leads to what I say and do) how the thoughts come, an auto-pilot reaction from the brain, then I am free of it and all aspects of the true self manifest as me. Divine love, compassions, empathy etc. Aspects of our source, the source of consciousness itself. Aspects of our true nature. All we have to do is be aware (mindfulness?) in each moment as that awareness in itself frees us from running on auto-pilot which is basically the "bad person" this brain produces.

Some brains produce a good person as what we do is a result of our conditioning. I think if someone was abused in someway in childhood or anytime really watch out cause they have some anger and trauma that's going to come out in some form or another. But even the "good generated persons" that were nurtured in childhood and free of abuse etc they are still self centered if not aware and free of body and brain identification. So still capable of doing very selfish and self centered things. Like that saying, the road to hell is paved with good intent. Sometimes someone conditioned to be good, and they are not very aware, will do something they and others may think is good, and it creates massive suffering in others and in the world. So even "good persons" would benefit from "mindfulness" or being self aware and through that free from running on auto-pilot.

The more we are aware of the better I think!

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Gem

I don't like too much talk, so I don't really like too much flustering about, Like I carry my own water because everyone always offers me water, and they want to talk about plants and stuff while I'm thinking, 'this is a lot of work and I've only got so much time. I like the mere fact that they are there, too.

You’re a good neighbour and a good uncle. I understand where you’re coming from.
I have so many quiet ones in my family ( I’m an introvert but have extroverted tendencies in comfortable situations) it’s the quiet ones I tend to understand more so, generally their is an unspoken connection moving through those kindred ones and the chatterboxes tend to want to hog the limelight. I’m a bit of an observer of people, I can read and gauge their behaviours, but generally I don’t let that bother me. I like genuine sincere people and I find them easy to relate too of course, but overall people can only be themselves at any given time and I accept that. Having said that, I’ve had so many silent and not so silent conflicts with some of my family members, I’ve used those reflections to dig deep and grow anyway. I’ve had to learn to suck it up at times, feel my stuff and put my big girl pants on. In many ways I’ve allowed some deeper inner work to move through me through family activations. So I’m grateful for those. Overall my family are amazing people. But you know how it goes when your ‘doing the work’ deeper. I have done a lot of meditation off the mat. Often in families as I see in mine, there is always a black sheep, suffering more, carrying more. Bigger burdens, not just there own. Healing the generational traumas.

I see it now in my siblings families now, they carry the torch so to speak. But before it shines, there’s a whole other process to face and release. Sometimes those burdens are so heavy, sometimes it shuts them down and they lock themselves away. I completely understand and your hands are tied sometimes, but when they are near, you just know so you spend a bit of quality time with them, support them for a short time.

One thing I’ve learned healing myself and generational trauma is that through my own liberation, Im ok and content to just enjoy my life, my way. Coming home to myself, I know I’m different to the normal way the world functions and believes should be, but being here, meeting myself, without the baggage, i am content to just be.. hehe I think only family who understands the deeper processors truly get you anyway to the depth you are open. Overall family can only love and support you where they understand themselves in those things, especially the older ones, set in their ways.

I think openness works both ways. It’s a shared mutual respectful togetherness. My openness is not a doormat, it’s something I treasure and I’m very much aware of my place in all situations, I’m very much aware of people as they are, how they respect and share as a togetherness. Sometimes it can be all one sided, very draining and difficult. Other times it’s great. I cope extremely well with all things, and I’ll support anyone, but I’m just more aware now which means, I take care of me.

Sometimes D and I (both open and allowing for others) will notice friends will sometimes not even ask ‘how’s things with you’ lol. We listen and let them. That’s what openness attracts, most naturally. In sharing that we don’t need it from them, mainly because we take care of our inner and outer world more consciously aware, than they might be doing. I think that’s the difference. When you’re taking care of you, your own back yard and addressing things moment to moment in yourself, you don’t leave mess haha. Most people want to talk about their mess.. when they’re no drama, there’s not much to talk about lol.

It’s funny, because when you let go of your own drama, you just get on with life and live your way. There’s nothing special or profound in living this way. It’s simple and the only bells and whistles I have now, are the constant rumbling of the local trains behind our back fence.. haha. ( I love trains so I don’t mind)