Continuation of Meditation

[Gem]

After interesting talks about meditation in different contexts ranging from the Buddhist views to contemporary free styles, I return to the view that, for those who find the meditation is suitable to them, each one should undertake the practice and find a way, and not be distracted or misguided by the suggestion of others.

There is a wide range of views on it and a plethora of different techniques, but one technique contradicts another technique and they can't be reconciled.

This is why, after discussing the art, and hearing one view after another, I understand that people have a way which they have decided upon, and even if it's not particularly prudent or it's somewhat counter-productive, it's better to learn through exploration than blindly follow someone who is 'more experienced' or who give the appearance of masterdom by ordination or robes, beads and garlands. Meditation is not obedience.

I started meditation on my own and came to a point where I thought I should get some instruction. Now I am past the instruction and continue as I determine, because ultimately, nothing is ever learned through obedience and blind faith; only through self determination and discovery can this path be navigated well.

[jonesboy]

You know the Buddha said don't trust a thing I say. Test everything out.

There is a difference between a path that has been tested for thousands of years compared to the path of Gem.

The problem is you get a lot of new people here told ** like just go with what feels right. Make it up and just go for it if it feels good. All wrong answers? The path has a lot of dangers and a person could spend a lifetime going in circles.

When I talk about a system it is about do A and B will happen. Do B and C will happen. A process with expected outcomes. Safe, fast and proven.

Here most people don't even talk paths. It is a bunch of my Kung fu is better than yours. I meditate this way, no I meditate like this and my way is better. Very few people here have yet to understand there is more than just meditation to advance ones practice, state of mind.

So for some real advice. Follow a system. Test it out. Does it work? Does this style fit me? That is why there are so many paths to the same place. To find that which speaks to you. But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

So for some real advice. Follow a system. Test it out. Does it work?
Does this style fit me? That is why there are so many paths to the
same place.
To find that which speaks to you.
But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

Hi jonesboy,
My my, that whole post was clear and direct!
I loved it!.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You know the Buddha said don't trust a thing I say. Test everything out.

There is a difference between a path that has been tested for thousands of years compared tothe path of Gem.

I say people have a path already and don't recommend techniques.

The problem is you get a lot of new people here told ** like just go with what feels right. Make it up and just go for it if it feels good. All wrong answers? The path has a lot of dangers and a person could spend a lifetime going in circles.

Spirals seem like circles but they move upwards.

When I talk about a system it is about do A and B will happen. Do B and C will happen. A process with expected outcomes. Safe, fast and proven.

The path of jonesboy.

Here most people don't even talk paths. It is a bunch of my Kung fu is better than yours. I meditate this way, no I meditate like this and my way is better. Very few people here have yet to understand there is more than just meditation to advance ones practice, state of mind.

So for some real advice. Follow a system. Test it out. Does it work? Does this style fit me? That is why there are so many paths to the same place. To find that which speaks to you. But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

I think you misunderstand that when we talk about the meditation methods we simply say the meditation is practiced like this for these particular reasons... but some just follow away because it's established in antiquity.

It's actually much better to listen to no-one and just practice by feel like quiet down the mind and follow the way forward, and people find their way.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

But going out and making something up is a case of wasting time.

Originally Posted by jonesboy

You may notice on the AYP forum many people go there to get help with kundalini issues.

The difference between you and I is that I will tell someone if they are combing or confusing two methods. You will just say keep going.

I don't know your history but can surmise you got in 'trouble' apparently from 'bad' advice or encouragement.

I understand your desire to prevent whatever happened to you from happening to others. For sure there are a lot of people out there flapping their gums perhaps meaning well but not really knowing what they are talking about. It's unfortunate, its something I try to shine the light on myself. I also recognize and accept that they are where they are on their 'path' or on their journey. They go the way they go, that is not for anyone else to say.

However, your situation is not like everyone else's situation. I did not have any guidance at all. There were no methods available to follow, no gurus, institutes, no books, and no guides. I had two choices, explore on my own or deny my spiritual nature. You can call exploration 'making it up on my own', probably correctly. I discovered many of those 'truths' taught in various systems on my own. I also know that most don't. Still I don't see any problem with going at it alone. My concern is when people try to put their stuff on others. It doesn't matter to me if it has hundreds of years of vetted history or if they made it up two seconds ago.

I feel your pain.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wstein

I don't know your history but can surmise you got in 'trouble' apparently from 'bad' advice or encouragement.

I understand your desire to prevent whatever happened to you from happening to others. For sure there are a lot of people out there flapping their gums perhaps meaning well but not really knowing what they are talking about. It's unfortunate, its something I try to shine the light on myself. I also recognize and accept that they are where they are on their 'path' or on their journey. They go the way they go, that is not for anyone else to say.

I wonder if that 'where they are on their journey' isn't a bit patronising. I gives me a feeling of wsteins on the high place and has to 'accept them on their journey'.

However, your situation is not like everyone else's situation. I did not have any guidance at all. There were no methods available to follow, no gurus, institutes, no books, and no guides. I had two choices, explore on my own or deny my spiritual nature. You can call exploration 'making it up on my own', probably correctly. I discovered many of those 'truths' taught in various systems on my own. I also know that most don't. Still I don't see any problem with going at it alone. My concern is when people try to put their stuff on others. It doesn't matter to me if it has hundreds of years of vetted history or if they made it up two seconds ago.

I feel your pain.

Interesting path description.

I did start meditation on my own, and there came a time I thought I should get some formal instruction, so I did. After good while, I decided to put that behind me and go into a new chapter again, so kept up a pretty good practice and feel OK about it.

The other aspect is the kindness which is extended, and it's always been in my nature, so I naturally tend toward human service and also wish well for all of nature. I feel ok about feelings of uncertainty within myself and other people, and have found that moving ahead is always wrought with uncertainty, but I also trust in myself and others that taking this step will be OK, and it's utmostly important that people are self determined and find their own way. It can be a difficult thing to not interfere and coerce decisions, but doing so is disempowering and it works a lot better to lend a hand without influencing the direction and enabling decisions rather than suggesting them. Only very rarely is more intervening necessary if a persons choices are very harmful or the person's decisive ability is incapacitated.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Gem

I wonder if that 'where they are on their journey' isn't a bit patronising. I gives me a feeling of wsteins on the high place and has to 'accept them on their journey'.

In the context of this discussion (narrow in scope) one might get that impression. Hey I'm at where I'm at too. In the infinite there are just as many 'further' along than I am as are 'behind'. Not of course that those terms have any significance.

Those that know me can attest that I shake my head as much at those considered by other to be spiritually advanced as those still just beginning. Its not that I think them stupid, its that I just can't figure out what they are up to. Doesn't really matter, I just find it curious. I think everyone's doings seem a bit peculiar to others. This feeling comes from them being different than ourselves and not really knowing who they are.

Acceptance means taking things as they are without being judgmental. It matters not whether or not they are making progress especially to another's eyes. If one 'has to' then its not acceptance.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wstein

In the context of this discussion (narrow in scope) one might get that impression. Hey I'm at where I'm at too. In the infinite there are just as many 'further' along than I am as are 'behind'. Not of course that those terms have any significance.

Ok, but people are as they are and that's just how it is. It is insignificant because there's only here and moving forward.

Those that know me can attest that I shake my head as much at those considered by other to be spiritually advanced as those still just beginning. Its not that I think them stupid, its that I just can't figure out what they are up to. Doesn't really matter, I just find it curious. I think everyone's doings seem a bit peculiar to others. This feeling comes from them being different than ourselves and not really knowing who they are.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

Acceptance means taking things as they are without being judgmental. It matters not whether or not they are making progress especially to another's eyes. If one 'has to' then its not acceptance.

Ok, sounds very reasonable.

[jonesboy]

This post of yours is why no one. I mean nobody should listen to you.

I am not trying to be a jerk but anybody with a little experience in reading :) in history can understand how wrong you are.

Again, not trying to be mean just saying... Stop.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

This post of yours is why no one. I mean nobody should listen to you.

I am not trying to be a jerk but anybody with a little experience in reading :) in history can understand how wrong you are.

Again, not trying to be mean just saying... Stop.

I think you are trying not to be mean, but experience adverse feelings because what I advocate isn't systematic, but rather, a continuation of the path any person happens to be on. I also think there is a certain derision underlying the conviction that people can't find a way themselves, and will just run around in circles if they don't adhere to a system (that you approve of). The minute a person finds a way for themselves they are advised to do this follow that, and are merely distracted from their own determinations. The better way is to listen, support and encourage within the context of what the person has determined for themselves. You don't understand that and will consider anything I say to be useless, as would the other 'meditation experts' lol...