Angry reconstructionists

Merry Meet!

I am a neopagan witch from Latvia. I wold like to ask - how do you think, why pagans in many countries are still trying to make one only true pagan religion and why it should be like in prehistoric ages?
Ok, I dont mind, not at all, but how to treat those who say - you are not latvian, if you are not dievturis (latvian pagan reconstructionism). I am eclectic wiccan and I love latvian culture. Whats wrong with that?
I really dont understand how you can live like in iron age and why do you have to do that? Why all this dread from anything new? I know that it is not something new or clever what I am saying, but I really dont understand why it is like that.
Ancient paganism has bad things too - vengeance, cruelty, blood sacrifices, women humiliation, fear of science, homophobia and so on. There is no such a thing as "golden age when everything was like in heaven".
How to treat people who humiliate you in public because you are different? I have bad experience with those "true pagans".
If they were just few strange persons, ok, but they are in some kind clever, nice people, but when they see me singing ancient latvian folk songs like I like - with new words, prepared for my situation (they are like spells), they almost faint and act like cristians - you are Satan!!! But those are folk songs, they are meant to be changed, it is a living tradition!
I just dont know how to respond, what to do, what to say... maube you have some suggestions and maybe you can tell me - why so much fear in reconstructionists paganism. Not only in Latvia.
Thank you!
)O(

[Jenny Crow]

Unfortunately, it seems that there are people all over the world, pagan and non-pagan who think that their religion is the only true religion.

Because Dievturiba is basically BASED on Latvian folklore and old folk songs (dainas) some people believe that the old folk songs should be kept as they were originally. However, I think that no-one can truly know for sure how it was like in prehistoric ages, that's why it's called a "reconstructionist" type of religion, isn't it.

Maybe it would be better to practice your way in private, away from everyone else. How do those who treat you this way know what you do in your practice anyway? Maybe what these people are objecting to is the Wiccan material being incorporated into the older Dievturiba. It's the same in North America and Britain, in many instances, when the people who practice the original Gardnerian Wicca complain that those not trained by and initiated into a true Gardnerian coven are not true Traditional practitioners.

I believe, though, that any religion needs to grow with the times, what we might pray for today would be entirely different from what would have been prayed for five hundred years ago.

Jenny Crow

[norseman]

First off, "pagan" covers a great many creeds, beliefs, and life styles - there is no generic "religion". Same with witches - no witch religion although most do follow a "green" belief system.
I have little time for wicca, it is trivial and irrelevent. It is a manufactured religion, a pick-n-mix system incorporating bits from many esoteric faiths, including the Roman Catholic church. The notion of heritage in wicca is ridiculous, it has none.
Teiksma - just ignore those who try to put you in a little box. Being a pagan witch is to be free to follow your own individual path. It is/was the same in American wicca. In Britain, where wicca originated, the norm is for solitary, self-declared followers. Many, in fact, begin in wicca then move on to the old paths which are still strong here and are pre-christian - now that's heritage !

I strongly agree with Jenny. Any belief that does not evolve is a dead belief. There is the lesson for American "hard-guards".

Originally Posted by Jenny Crow

some people believe that the old folk songs should be kept as they were originally

But there is no such a thing as originally. They evolved and changed all the time.

And no, I dont want to practice silently. My coven have a home page, we make public events for friends on sabbats. I just dont like those people saying bad things abut us in public, in internet.

I dont think that Wicca is so bad. I am on an eclectic path, I dont feel that it limit my practice. I dont like stereotypical reconstructionist attitude towards sex roles, family, other nationalities, sex and other things. I think what I like in eclectic Wicca - it is free of those stereotypes.

Originally Posted by Teiksma

But there is no such a thing as originally. They evolved and changed all the time.

And no, I dont want to practice silently. My coven have a home page, we make public events for friends on sabbats. I just dont like those people saying bad things abut us in public, in internet.

I dont think that Wicca is so bad. I am on an eclectic path, I dont feel that it limit my practice. I dont like stereotypical reconstructionist attitude towards sex roles, family, other nationalities, sex and other things. I think what I like in eclectic Wicca - it is free of those stereotypes.

Greetings Teiksma:

Merry do we meet and well met we are (indeed).

I am an Eclectic Solitary Pagan Priestess and I am a Solitary Practitioner for the very reasons you have described.

I think it is wonderful that you have formed a Coven and for those invited to your Coven's open Circle Rituals, Sabbats, and Esbats--they can be gracious guests--or start a closed Circle that adheres to their own personal dogma.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

[Jenny Crow]

Originally Posted by Teiksma

But there is no such a thing as originally. They evolved and changed all the time.

And no, I dont want to practice silently. My coven have a home page, we make public events for friends on sabbats. I just dont like those people saying bad things abut us in public, in internet.

I dont think that Wicca is so bad. I am on an eclectic path, I dont feel that it limit my practice. I dont like stereotypical reconstructionist attitude towards sex roles, family, other nationalities, sex and other things. I think what I like in eclectic Wicca - it is free of those stereotypes.

Well, they had to be 'original' originally, lol.

It's your choice to practice how you wish. If you're going to be open about it then you'll have to accept that other people have different opinions and they're going to express those opinions. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen! Everyone should accept that people walk different paths and leave others to do the same but that would be in a perfect world. You are expressing your opinion of the 'stereotypical reconstructionists' in public and on the internet

There are stereotypical reconstructionists but as well, there are stereotypical Wiccans!

Thank you, LadyTerra )O(

Yes, I am saying bad things about them in internet I just wanted to understand, what to do. I dont think that their practice is evil, I dont mind that they want to live like that, because we are different. I just dont want them to call me evil. I see a difference in that.

But yes, Maybe there is no arguments to make them think different...

[Jenny Crow]

Teiksma,

Usually, not always but usually, what we 'send out' is returned to us in some form or another - and you have stated in the Christian forum that you hate Christianity and what it stands for (granted you're trying to change that but you are still full of hate for it). Maybe you're just getting a taste of your own medicine

Your feelings are hurt because you are being judged by the reconstructionists but you are doing the same thing to the Christians. Wicca neither teaches nor condones 'hatred' for our fellow humans whether we agree with them or not.
And when there is so much hate held within it affects the physical body by making it toxic.

Perhaps it would be helpful to see some kind of counseller to deal with your issue of hate and/or go to a Past Life Regressionist to see if this stems from a past life.

Originally Posted by Teiksma

Thank you, LadyTerra )O(

Yes, I am saying bad things about them in internet I just wanted to understand, what to do. I dont think that their practice is evil, I dont mind that they want to live like that, because we are different. I just dont want them to call me evil. I see a difference in that.

But yes, Maybe there is no arguments to make them think different...

My Son and I encounter this behavior all the time--in the mundane sense and the Spiritual sense.

It might help you to remember that they do this out of fear. They try to squeeze others into their own box--because having others believe exactly as they do makes them feel secure. What they haven't realized is that security is an illusion.

When we (as individuals) decide to go our own way and think for ourselves--then they begin to demonize us--so that we cannot (in their opinion) lead others astray.

We can only be ourselves and follow our own conscience--we cannot change their minds--because then we would be attempting to force our beliefs upon them and (by doing so) we become them.

Be yourself--stand apart--and try to only discuss your beliefs with people of a like mind--or people with open minds who are not threatened by allowing others to think for themselves.

Peace and Love on the path of your choice...

Blessed be...

A lot of reconstructionist groups get rather sectarian in their thinking. I understand the desire to preserve and reconstruct (and construct) practices that have old roots and sources. But pagan reconstructions are not the end and of themselves; most recons I've spoken to don't want to live just like the cultures they're drawing from; they want to understand it as best as possible, which does involve immersing oneself in the beliefs and practices, but once that understanding is gained, it's to be modernized as necessary. No one lives in the so-called hay-day of pagan religions any more. So trying to act like we can or do is fruitless.

It should also be said that a lot of recons knee-jerk reactions to eclectic and syncretic approaches is because for the bulk of modern neopaganism, it's been taken to ridiculous extremes that border on the silly. Thus, much of the reactionism is an attempt to separate themselves from people who don't really understand the history and culture, or even the religion, they draw inspiration from. Not least because neopagans have a terrible reputation for accepting discredited Victorian scholarship, and fanciful theories that are about as useful and realistic as believing the tooth fairy is Zeus. But that strategy can go awry for some recon groups, who mistake scholarship for religion, and make idols out of theories, rather than practice a religion organically. A balance between natural evolution and a foundation in ancient beliefs, and the deities that were worshiped by those who held them, is necessary in the long term - although, since all of neopaganism, recon or otherwise is still in it's infancy, the pendulum will continue to swing from extremes for some time to come, as moderns try to define their new "pagan" religions, and what they stand for, and what they don't.