My beginner level questions on non-duality

[kralaro]

My heart sank when i read "There is no person or god other than You". Isn't non-duality sad & lonely that there's no one, not even God, except you/me? Isn't apparent existence of this universe & duality a proof that i as singular consciousness is so lonely that i'm imagining everything to keep myself distracted? Maybe God / i as singular consciousness doesn't know whether there is any other consciousness beside itself, this seems dark to me. Some time ago i read someone's experience with a natural psychedelic, i roughly remember reading that on the psychedelic the person experienced being only existing consciousness with no one else existing and nothing else existing, and the person felt so lonely that he re-created the universe. I'm Not finding non-duality "bliss"full.

Is there any logical proof of non-duality?

When i sleep, my dreams are produced by my brain, i don't consciously create those dreams. A power different from myself, i.e. my brain, produces the dreams and i experience them. Similarly, isn't this world being designed & moved by a power different than me? - Since i'm not consciously doing it. So there are at least 2 consciousness: myself and God? When i jump, some other power pulls my body back to earth; if i'm the only consciousness who is God then why won't i stay afloat in air if i desire so?

This is an interesting conundrum.

We can find fear in being tiny and isolated mortals destined to perish and also the concept of being the ultimate eternal reality without a second.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

This is an interesting conundrum.

We can find fear in being tiny and isolated mortals destined to perish and also the concept of being the ultimate eternal reality without a second.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I'm not even dismissing the OPs concern(s). From an anthropomorphic perspective it can be a very disturbing concept.

My advice is take it slow and start at the beginning. There's tons of high quality introductory material available, both text and video.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I'm not even dismissing the OPs concern(s). From an anthropomorphic perspective it can be a very disturbing concept.

My advice is take it slow and start at the beginning. There's tons of high quality introductory material available, both text and video.

I certainly did not take your post as being dismissive of the OP's concern. From an anthropomorphic perspective, the concept of "aloneness" can indeed be "a very disturbing concept". Even from the perspective of ONE who has JUST realized the implications of non-duality, it can be very disturbing to realize the "aloneness" as Reality.

My conscious sleep meditations...during which I could watch dream formation from start to finish ...helped me a lot in getting over this concern as I realized how much I initially enjoyed the lucid dreaming process albeit being the only ONE involved (obviously) despite apparent "others". Of course, as mundane dreams eventually subside during the purification process, one moves on to the "next level" and enjoys that ..........

As you duly noted, there are many ways to address that "aloneness" concern. What I wrote was just the first way that came to mind for me personally.

NOTE: What also came to mind was a quote attributed to Lord Jesus: At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children" (Matthew 11:25). This understanding can easily escape the "learned and the wise" intellectuals who can discuss non-duality quite articulately but don't really know. I can attest to that personally because I was very intellectually-challenged once before my teacher got me past that anthropomorphic intellectualism. PRACTICE! Be still and KNOW!

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

I certainly did not take your post as being dismissive of the OP's concern. From an anthropomorphic perspective, the concept of "aloneness" can indeed be "a very disturbing concept". Even from the perspective of ONE who has JUST realized the implications of non-duality, it can be very disturbing to realize the "aloneness" as Reality.

Yup, I included that disclaimer for the benefit of the OP and because I didn't on my first post and should have.

Hmm, how to put this... Okay, trying to conceptualize that level of aloneness is one thing but it still has that anthropomorphic taste, if you know what I mean. The reality is we can't even begin to conceptualize that absolute state of being minus Maya and I think that has the potential to be terrifying because it seems like the same thing as mortal death. We are so invested in body, mind, individuation and personality it's hard to get past. That level of acceptance, surrender, letting go is not in our conditioned nature and does take work.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by kralaro

Is there any logical proof of non-duality?

Alternating state is a way of life . Day& life , sleep and awake state ,shining on and off twinkling starts , High and low tide , sorrow and happiness etc point to a certain pattern in life .In sleep you are alone and nobody exists (even your loved ones ) for you . Mere existence (which is proved by your functioning organs and continued breathing) also is great.

This indicates we need both bliss of sleep which is refreshing and recharging and fun/sorrow of the play which gives excitement and thrill .

It is quite possible depending on the one's stage in life journey one may not like bliss or fun of play (when one is undergoing through vagaries of life) . An ideal situation is we require best of both state at a better frequencies to improve our life .

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by kralaro

My heart sank when i read "There is no person or god other than You". Isn't non-duality sad & lonely that there's no one, not even God, except you/me? ... When i jump, some other power pulls my body back to earth; if i'm the only consciousness who is God then why won't i stay afloat in air if i desire so?

The paradox is that we are each alone, even while connecting with others and enjoying their company. Everything we experience is our own subjective experience.

When we are with friends and family we experience them as sense impressions (sight, hearing, touch) and our mind interprets these impressions as pertaining to particular individuals. We may also feel an emotional or mental connection which is more subtle than the senses, but this is still our own subjective experience. We are each living our own separate existence, alone.

This is actually quite liberating. If all we know is our own subjective experience then we are free to choose how we are with people. We can choose to feel love and compassion for all these people who come and go within our conscious awareness.

Regarding non-duality, we can say that "There is no person or god other than You." But what do we mean by "You"? It is not kralaro or iamthat or anyone else. These are just limited expressions of individualised Being. The real "You" is limitless unchanging Being.

Identification with this one limitless Being is neither sad nor lonely. It is a state of completeness, a state of wholeness. Nothing is missing, nothing can be added. We have no need of a separate God to cheer us up or keep us company.

And as for jumping in the air, it is not kralaro who is the state of Being inseparable from the Divine. So the body may jump in the air and kralaro may desire to float, but the body is subject to gravity so it falls back to the ground. Being has no desire to stay afloat or do anything. It simply is, and allows all things to be.

As for logical proof, the only proof lies in realisation.

Peace

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by kralaro

if i'm the only consciousness who is God then why won't i stay afloat in air if i desire so?

regardless of whether the premise you've asked about is true (and by the way you have a choice as to whether to believe it and go off into a lonely life, or not belief it and have friends, which is totally independent of whatever things really 'are'), the answer to that is that simply having the thought 'I desire to do so' isn't enough to overcome inertia and make it so... think of it this way at this point you've collected a number of other 'desires' that are in conflict with this goal (chief among which is to have a common manner of relating to others), and just having another random one isn't going to magically cancel out what went before.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

regardless of whether the premise you've asked about is true (and by the way you have a choice as to whether to believe it and go off into a lonely life, or not belief it and have friends, which is totally independent of whatever things really 'are'), the answer to that is that simply having the thought 'I desire to do so' isn't enough to overcome inertia and make it so... think of it this way at this point you've collected a number of other 'desires' that are in conflict with this goal (chief among which is to have a common manner of relating to others), and just having another random one isn't going to magically cancel out what went before.

If we have many desires, how do we clarify?