Nonduality is not sameness, non-differentiation

[eputkonen]

Nonduality does not mean non-differentiation and homogeneity of experience. Think of the ocean. Under water it is all ocean…there is no other…and yet there are different currents, hot and cold spots, etc. The hot and cold spots are not separate or other than the ocean. The various currents are not other than the ocean. One current goes straight North...another swirls and meanders East...it doesn't matter as it is all ocean. So even in endless water…there is variation and happenings. The world is even more complex of an appearance and happening…and yet there is no separation. There is the Self and no other.

[sky]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

Nonduality does not mean non-differentiation and homogeneity of experience. Think of the ocean. Under water it is all ocean…there is no other…and yet there are different currents, hot and cold spots, etc. The hot and cold spots are not separate or other than the ocean. The various currents are not other than the ocean. One current goes straight North...another swirls and meanders East...it doesn't matter as it is all ocean. So even in endless water…there is variation and happenings. The world is even more complex of an appearance and happening…and yet there is no separation. There is the Self and no other.

In Buddhism non-duality ( Advaita ) teaches there is not self, what is ' the self and no other ' ?

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by sky123

In Buddhism non-duality ( Advaita ) teaches there is not self, what is ' the self and no other ' ?

Buddha came from Hinduism that teaches about Atman, but many were falling into the trap of trying to grasp a permanent personal self. So Buddha taught anatman - the lack of permanent self. These are just terms used to point at what-is...and what is is not atman, nor anatman, nor both, nor neither.

When I use the term "Self"...I am not saying a permanent, personal self. I could have just as easily said there is That and no other.

[ajay00]

Originally Posted by sky123

In Buddhism non-duality ( Advaita ) teaches there is not self, what is ' the self and no other ' ?

The Self as per Advaita in Hinduism means pure awareness.

Awareness in Advaita and emptiness in Buddhism mean the same thing. The essence is the same , it is just the expressions that vary.

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by ajay00

The Self as per Advaita in Hinduism means pure awareness.

Awareness in Advaita and emptiness in Buddhism mean the same thing. The essence is the same , it is just the expressions that vary.

Yes...agreed.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by ajay00

The Self as per Advaita in Hinduism means pure awareness.

Awareness in Advaita and emptiness in Buddhism mean the same thing. The essence is the same , it is just the expressions that vary.

That is not correct. The essence of all phenomena in buddhism is emptiness, i.e. the essence of awareness is emptiness and the essence of the essence emptiness is again emptiness.
Emptiness of what? Emptiness of true, i.e. inherent, existence.

So the crucial difference between advaita and budhism is that advaita claims what buddhism negates: true, i.e. inherent, existence.

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by Ground

That is not correct. The essence of all phenomena in buddhism is emptiness, i.e. the essence of awareness is emptiness and the essence of the essence emptiness is again emptiness.
Emptiness of what? Emptiness of true, i.e. inherent, existence.

So the crucial difference between advaita and budhism is that advaita claims what buddhism negates: true, i.e. inherent, existence.

Emptiness is Form and Form is Emptiness.

You seem to be grasping emptiness, but it is voidless-void.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

Nonduality does not mean non-differentiation and homogeneity of experience....

Since 'nonduality' is a contradiction in terms and therefore cannot exist from a rational perspective obviously from an irrational perspective it may mean everything depending on the belief of a believer.

Originally Posted by eputkonen

Nonduality does not mean non-differentiation and homogeneity of experience. Think of the ocean. Under water it is all ocean…there is no other…and yet there are different currents, hot and cold spots, etc. ...

yes but in the depth of the ocean there is no movement while on its surface there may be waves caused by winds. Also think of the mirror: the mirror has the potentiality to reflect everything without differentiating anything that it reflects.

[eputkonen]

Originally Posted by Ground

Yes but in the depth of the ocean there is no movement while on its surface there may be waves caused by winds. Also think of the mirror: the mirror has the potentiality to reflect everything without differentiating anything that it reflects.

Perhaps, but the ocean also does not have a will of its own...and so it was just an analogy to point that in endless water there can still be differentiation and variety. THAT has a will and creates the motion within itself.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by eputkonen

...and so it was just an analogy to point that in endless water there can still be differentiation and variety. THAT has a will and creates the motion within itself.

That's the view characteristic of theistic believers. There are two kinds of theistic beliefs: one kind personifies its object of belief and the other kind doesn't personify its object of belief.