How did Illusion of Separation Begin?

[Joyce]

Try this one on for size. Let's say the indigenous, the native, or the original people to inhabit the world (this is extremely controversial - I realize), but let's say these people lived in tune with all of nature and each other in a cooperative fashion versus one where people's main concern was to acquire more through domination.

So where did these people who believed domination got them what they wanted without regard for the one they acquired, by force most likely, come from. Well really I don't care. It's over and done. Isn't this a belief that they are spiritually separate from one another?

Naturally it's difficult to argue that the one's living in a cooperative fashion are unified as one spirit from the thoughts, feeling and beliefs involved in their existence.

And it makes sense that when there's a belief that one is better, in some way, than another there's an automatic separation of spirit lets say.

And from there lets imagine the acquisition of material things, for one's own self, is certainly a means to separate the spirit nature of one from the other is it not?

None of us earthlings here, or anywhere I know of, can explain where the different humans came from if we find it difficult to imagine we all came from apes.

So if anyone has evidence they'd like to share, I'd love to read it. Thanks![/b]

[firstandlast]

Evidence? Such as this will not suffice, but this is what I remember at the beginning of creation--

Long before time, but just a moment ago; I was all— As all, I looked in upon myself, and saw who I was; and I was what I saw— And what I did not see, was me looking at myself; I was both that which I see myself doing, and that which I could not see myself doing and this was one in the same, and so that which I am doing now is directly what you are doing— For I am all, but not all there is— For as I turned towards myself, I gave birth to the god; and I could see god, and I was god and god was all there was— But no, with one eye open and one eye closed, I didn’t see her; she whom I was, and whom turned inward and looked to see the goddess, and knew only the goddess, and was the goddess— Low, we saw each other, and so was the birth of vanity and the mirror of misdirect; for have you forgotten, I am neither and both; for I was never the object to be held, but the choice between them to behold— So, when I saw myself, I knew not the surprise of love around the corner— For each time I decided to look; we multiplied— My eyes became many both perfect and gouged— Who I was became clearer, more illuminated in a greater darkness with every breath—

For I was neither the husband and the bride, nor sister or the brother; I was the infallible decision between them, the desire and the desired— My true form is the first decision, my decision perfect and yours— I did not need knowledge, nor intellect, nor plan; for the move I made was every move, it was the only move to make; both determined and free; both the only way, and the sincere way— If it was all I could do, then you must believe in what I have done; because this is my true self and I could be no other— Would you condemn who I am? Oh, how I would feel about myself— How the created loathe the creator— But I remember her, before you and I now, and I did not know what I was up to; and behold, the creator loves— I have deceived myself from the very beginning, but the deception was sincere; and the love it was great, and so we below I had children, just as our creator; and as I had made many decisions before I could say that I knew myself, and as I became more defined, and there was more to myself to know; so to did I come upon her in delight, always there; but I was doomed by my blindness— I fell in love, and yes we had children; and yes they shall become blind and stumble like a charming fool who is wild, wreckless, dangerous, and fun; and just when they think they know who they are, just when everything seems to be coming together; they will meet their brothers and sisters, to whom which they were blind; and they will meet their mother and father, to whom seemed to be absent; and they will come to know themselves which is who I always was— And we the children of the children of the child, will fall in love with infinity and bask in the security of it being ours—

And you will come to know my most condemned traits to be my most redeeming qualities–

How this relates to our situation now--

I would suggest that, yes everything is our choice to experience; that we must not forget that everything is a part of our choice– It is not our narrative that makes these decisions, but that it is our choice to experience narrative which gives color to experience beyond the experience itself– To think anything is out of your control, is to misunderstand the power of what you are experiencing now– It is simply that we chose to experience somethings out of our control, and this is an agreement to experience ourselves as separate beings–

That is we have given ourselves a sphere of consciousness in which we can begin designing our narrative, but that our narrative exists within a collective one.. and it is not a matter of aligning your narrative to the personal and immediate desires which are based on falsehoods, but the collective will and intent which means your desires within that intent is 1. part of your original desire and so greater, to the extent that you would fear desiring such a thing for yourself. 2. your desire of such proportions or ratio is absolutely supported by the whole of which you are and are a part of in experience–

————–

At the level of realization I speak of, there are revelations that have personal consequences, as well as consequences upon the narrative at large– Since you speak from personal consequences of intermingling separation, which is a gift and a curse; let me say that there is a collective narrative that will have far more reaching consequences than any individual narrative at play, and that which will guide every personal narrative if so one should choose to follow the story we are all experiencing, which allows for every personal story to reach its own greater height–

I know that in a certain sense, you feel like mankind is alone in this endeavor of ours, but that this process is indeed universal; and that there are illuminated members of society (far and distant from each other with purpose) working towards the original intent or impulse of our collective decision which in spirit is specific, but in form is liberation itself–

And that I would point to you to meditate on.. is not the intent of your own choices to experience something a certain way, but why we would choose to experience such a sorrowful state as this, and what great vitality it would have to the most glorious fruit ahead in which we shall all partake without exclusion, but to which all partaking will appear to be an individual conclusion in the collective result– Think about the intentions behind that which you did not intend, and reconcile them into your own spirit–

However, not everyone is meant to reach the levels I speak of; not everyone desires to truly, and this is quite fine.. but as a result, something between these two conflicting desires must arise that give a greater result than either of the two desires alone– Thus that ultimate is that desire of every individual in the way that allows for all desire to be met, and surpasses the limitation of the individual desire to only allow one aspect of the desire to be met–

We are dealing with far more fantastical things than you treat it, and without proper catalysts and stimulation; beyond your own ability to treat such fantasy seriously–

My forum post just today will cover about the future--

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=111606

This is my best explanation of how we got here, but that not everyone experienced getting here this way-- In fact, what you originally have said in all this is of importance--

Forging your fire!

I am ripples upon ripples upon ripples, HARK, a ripple returns; and I ripple out!

I am echos upon echos upon echo’s, HARK! an echo returns; and I call out!

I am call after call after call! HARK! a call returns; And I echo out!

I am ring after ring after ring, HARK! a ring returns; and I resonate and wings emerge from my body as the ring is shaped through my voice—

Hark, I am voice after voice— But my voice is all voices when it passes through my throat; ah diamonds I said, consumer? nah I adooooore shiny things!

I am star after star after star! WHOOSH, a planet circles me! I draw it towards me and it resists! but it adores shiny things as well and follows me along—

I am a passage as I pass through myself, and at the end of my corridor there is light! and I sprawl out upon everything else, express a single choice among all choices which bring me into the spark of a flame—

Rinse repeat—
My torch is well lit with much oil to last! this time my choice will emerge greater among all choices! I fling out my well lit corridor, and I ring like a voice that resonates with all the other choices—

I was a spark, but I became a flame! I was a ring, but I became a resonance! I was a coal, but I came out like a diamond refracting in my own light, and lighting the corridor of my greater temple with out need of a lantern! but its cold—

I WAS A WORD, BUT THAN I CAME OUT A VOICE!

I was a choice! but I came out an action!

I was a spirit, but I came out in form!

I was, I was, and am and am, And will and will!

Ode to my own caverns, which now bright enough I can carve into a more beautiful temple— I can adorn it with many jewels I mine from the caverns in the land of there’s gold in dem there hills—

But who do I do it for! who is the ghost in the machine! I am! And I can go to many temples, but this temple is mine and mine alone; and no one can choose to go down my corridors without blessing! But that I am blessed each time I bless! and so allow many to walk in my own light—

And hark, the warmth is known—

-------------


On the greater details of our situation from the beginning of time; it of course gets more and more complex, and so it would be a long discussion of what truly is occurring; Not all of which I am aware of, only the basic structure that helps me organized/deal with data as it comes in--

[firstandlast]

I would also suggest everything is done quite on purpose; at least I see purpose for everything as it is--

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by Joyce

Try this one on for size. Let's say the indigenous, the native, or the original people to inhabit the world (this is extremely controversial - I realize), but let's say these people lived in tune with all of nature and each other in a cooperative fashion versus one where people's main concern was to acquire more through domination.

So where did these people who believed domination got them what they wanted without regard for the one they acquired, by force most likely, come from. Well really I don't care. It's over and done. Isn't this a belief that they are spiritually separate from one another?

Naturally it's difficult to argue that the one's living in a cooperative fashion are unified as one spirit from the thoughts, feeling and beliefs involved in their existence.

And it makes sense that when there's a belief that one is better, in some way, than another there's an automatic separation of spirit lets say.

And from there lets imagine the acquisition of material things, for one's own self, is certainly a means to separate the spirit nature of one from the other is it not?

None of us earthlings here, or anywhere I know of, can explain where the different humans came from if we find it difficult to imagine we all came from apes.

So if anyone has evidence they'd like to share, I'd love to read it. Thanks![/b]

Not Evidence,but a view from where I am today.

Its all got to do with the drive/want/need to live a physical existence.

We came to Earth as conscious energy to live in a physical dimension.We came from the oneness of source/God to explore outside of that oneness and we split into many different parts/beings for this experience.
We decided to forget about the oneness so we could experience something new and seemingly separate.

We started in the oceans...perhaps we came to earth in the form of water, as scientist's cannot explain how or where Earth's water came from.
We played and grew in the ocean and we continuously merged with each other and by that I mean we ate each other.
Big fish eats little fish to survive....When our physicality was broken down by death our consciousness or energy moved to another form and we continued our experience in physical form.

We left the oceans and moved to land and sky.We continued to play and eat each other to survive.We evolved physically into what we are now.Our path from the oceans to where we are now involved killing,eating/merging with each other so it is a big part of us ....Survival.

In the beginning we chose to forget so we could have the physical experience but the memory of oneness was hidden deep within us and we gradually began to remember we were all one,especially when another that we played with died/disappeared or was ate.....We felt loss,sadness,EMOTION.

Emotions changed us and we evolved faster and here we are now with lots of emotions... memories of emotions(past thoughts)hopes for emotions(future/planning our life).

Some of us now are still in the survival mode and have not fully examined the emotions but they are still evolving ,so we still see "Big fish eats little fish"...Its not nice to see when you are fully connected to your emotions but Its where we began and without it we would not have changed....we might be still in the ocean.

Some of us are connected to our emotions and are surrounded by the "Big fish"....What can we do?
Explore those emotions more and more and deeper and deeper(ALL of them)and you will connect back to the oneness/God,which is love.....Radiate that love and the "Big fish" will start to feel it too.

Every time we come back after a death,we come back with the imprint(information gained) of our previous life
Eventually God will fully exist on Earth(in us)...Heaven on Earth....so do your part to make it happen..................and hurry up please.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Joyce

Try this one on for size. Let's say the indigenous, the native, or the original people to inhabit the world (this is extremely controversial - I realize), but let's say these people lived in tune with all of nature and each other in a cooperative fashion versus one where people's main concern was to acquire more through domination.

So where did these people who believed domination got them what they wanted without regard for the one they acquired, by force most likely, come from. Well really I don't care. It's over and done. Isn't this a belief that they are spiritually separate from one another?

Naturally it's difficult to argue that the one's living in a cooperative fashion are unified as one spirit from the thoughts, feeling and beliefs involved in their existence.

And it makes sense that when there's a belief that one is better, in some way, than another there's an automatic separation of spirit lets say.

And from there lets imagine the acquisition of material things, for one's own self, is certainly a means to separate the spirit nature of one from the other is it not?

None of us earthlings here, or anywhere I know of, can explain where the different humans came from if we find it difficult to imagine we all came from apes.

So if anyone has evidence they'd like to share, I'd love to read it. Thanks![/b]

We carry the seeds of nature in us in everyway life is. When you understand yourself as nature...(I can vouch for this) then you understand yourself as all those seeds in truth of being... The wild beast, the tame lamb, the cheeky monkey.. So the seeds sown by all life forms become the many strains of life reflecting how life is and can be. When life comes together, we as humans wonder why things unfold as they do, yet nature is being and doing what nature does. Humans are not separate from nature. Observe nature, observe yourself as nature and most questions are answered without needing to ask or seek evidence. Observe life more deeply in you as nature and you will see for yourself how you are choosing to survive..

"I AM ALL THAT' which is.

I am the storms
The firey skies
I am the beating thunderous rise
Every mountain
Stream and lake
Rain filled skies
Flooded place
The wild roaming beast
Who eats alive
The hidden smallest creature that dies
The ocean expanse so wide and vast
The rocks the stones
Of every path
This earth we walk
As nature shows
Is the picture of you
In every flow
In every step
In every way
So walk very light
All steps each day..

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

We carry the seeds of nature in us in everyway life is. When you understand yourself as nature...(I can vouch for this) then you understand yourself as all those seeds in truth of being... The wild beast, the tame lamb, the cheeky monkey.. So the seeds sown by all life forms become the many strains of life reflecting how life is and can be. When life comes together, we as humans wonder why things unfold as they do, yet nature is being and doing what nature does. Observe nature, observe yourself as nature and most questions are answered without needing to ask or seek evidence. Observe life more deeply in you as nature and you will see for yourself.

"I AM ALL THAT' which is.

I like to observe Nature.
I feed the small pretty birds in my back garden....gentle little creatures....NO! constantly fighting all day long over a huge amount of food...plenty food for for all but they wont share....nature is brutal but they also fight very hard to protect their young and they feed and care for them...is it love they feel for their young... I think so

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by barrynu

I like to observe Nature.
I feed the small pretty birds in my back garden....gentle little creatures....NO! constantly fighting all day long over a huge amount of food...plenty food for for all but they wont share....nature is brutal but they also fight very hard to protect their young and they feed and care for them...is it love they feel for their young... I think so

That's right, observe how each species in nature behaves and interacts. It births itself, becomes a part of its own species, raised and nurtured as its own kind models itself to be. We are the same...Nature is both brutal and beautiful. We as humans are no different

I personally don't feed birds, because I believe humans when we interfere with nature in these ways can upset the natural balance within the groups that model and know how to manage themselves naturally. I mentioned to my sister about reading up on magpie behaviours and natural patterns, because her and her H feed regularly...but then when they go away and not feeding,this can interfere and impede upon the youngs natural ways.


I personally believe it is far better to create an environment that supports their natural world. So plant native trees and shrubs that provide a more natural eco system that supports all living together..

[barrynu]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I personally don't feed birds, because I believe humans when we interfere with nature in these ways can upset the natural balance .

I don't see it as upsetting the balance but I do change the balance which results in greater numbers....greater amounts of wild bird Energy around me which I like.
I interact with them....they know me,so I am connecting deeper with nature.They are the first sounds I hear when I wake...I lie in bed listening to their song before I get out of bed....A peaceful way to start the day.I can hear them now

Interaction will upset the balance but we all gain something,, so let nature take its course? or interact with nature?.......that's my choice as a more evolved species.

Spirit/god has the same choice....Does spirit/god help us?..some say yes..some say no.
Spirit thinks,"Will I help and upset the balance or let them be?"...hmmmm????

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by barrynu

I don't see it as upsetting the balance but I do change the balance which results in greater numbers....greater amounts of wild bird Energy around me which I like.
I interact with them....they know me,so I am connecting deeper with nature.They are the first sounds I hear when I wake...I lie in bed listening to their song before I get out of bed....A peaceful way to start the day.I can hear them now

Interaction will upset the balance but we all gain something,, so let nature take its course? or interact with nature?.......that's my choice as a more evolved species.

Spirit/god has the same choice....Does spirit/god help us?..some say yes..some say no.
Spirit thinks,"Will I help and upset the balance or let them be?"...hmmmm????

You have no need to justify why you do what you do. Its your choice. Knowledge certainly changes how we as humans choose to do things if we consider more than just our own needs in our interactions with nature.


Understanding and educating yourself in how nature works and operates beyond human need and desires can be informative to both yourself and nature so I simply consider the nature of such things.

Sometimes humans want nature a certain way and not the way nature intended it to be. Our interventions can be detrimental to nature, simply because we as humans decide how we can move closer to nature our own ways or have things more in the way we like, but I would imagine anyone considerate of nature and who enjoys nature, would consider the needs of all creatures in nature, especially when we intervene.

So what kind of birds are you feeding and what do you feed them if you don't mind me asking?

[ocean breeze]

It started when one person decided to eat an apple. I blame apples for the illusion of separateness.