Questioning the Benefits of Meditation

[Willyeast]

All,

I have been a meditator for twenty years and have gained some benefit from the practice but after this time still get stressed or upset at life's daily challenges. Do the benefits of meditation continue to grow or does meditation simply have limits?

[Catsquotl]

Well, I would say that it depends on what you are trying to achieve.
I take it you want to become free from stress and upset in daily life?

I don't know how you meditate, but there are people who claim that a lot of the stress and upset's fell away after some intensive vipassana retreats in the Mahasi Sayadaw style. Some of their findings can be found https://www.dharmaoverground.org/

After 20 years you might want to take a long good look at exactly what you are doing during meditation.

With Love
Eelco

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

I have been a meditator for twenty years ...

Hello and welcome, Willyeast.

Much depends on the type of meditation we do and how long we actually meditate every day. Plus what we do with the rest of the day when we are not formally sitting.

And yes, life can be stressful and challenging. There are always things to be done, issues to be resolved. This is the nature of life in a physical body.

From my own experience of 40+ years of meditation I can say that the benefits of meditation continue to grow. On a simply practical level things which once might have caused us stress become less of an issue. We deal with them and move on.

But the real value of meditation (for me) is discovering that centre of peace and stillness within, which has always been present but which is so easily overlooked.

I do believe that meditation has no limits but it all comes down to how deeply we want to take our meditation.

Peace

[Willyeast]

Originally Posted by iamthat

...Much depends on the type of meditation we do and how long we actually meditate every day. Plus what we do with the rest of the day when we are not formally sitting.

Can you elaborate on how we can take our meditation more deeply? Also will the benefits of meditation
stay with us from one life to the next if one believes in the concept of reincarnation?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

Can you elaborate on how we can take our meditation more deeply?

I think it depends what type of meditation we do. For example, sitting observing the breath for 20 minutes twice a day can be very calming and we may feel the benefits afterwards for a while, but this is unlikely to take us into very deep states. (Others may disagree).

Catsquotl mentions vipassana retreats. These are usually ten days long and I know people who have found them quite transformational. Simply being in that kind of environment, away from our usual routine, focused on certain practices, means that we can go much deeper. But I have never done a vipassana retreat myself. I don't like the condition that we do not do any other practice during the retreat. If I was doing a ten day retreat then I would stay at home doing my usual meditation.

For me, the key to taking our meditation more deeply is to sit for longer. I don't know how long you sit, but however long you sit you can always double it. The mind may complain at first because it wants to do something else, but we do get used to sitting for long periods.

Originally Posted by Willyeast

Also will the benefits of meditation stay with us from one life to the next if one believes in the concept of reincarnation?

I do believe in the doctrine of reincarnation but I cannot really answer this.

We may read about the Saints and Yogis of India who are drawn to meditation from a very young age and who naturally seem to enter states of samadhi. Presumably they previously attained high states and they have incarnated to continue the process, for whatever purpose.

As for the rest of us, I can only speak from my own experience. There was nothing spiritually special about me when I was growing up, but at the age of 19 I felt a compulsion to learn to meditate (without knowing anything about meditation). When meditation was explained to me, along with the associated doctrines of reincarnation and karma it all immediately made sense to me and seemed very familiar. Presumably I had done this before.

And so I began. But I still found the first year exceedingly difficult. After the initial excitement I discovered that meditation was hard work and my mind complained at great length. It took a year for me to start considering meditation as going home.

Peace

[Catsquotl]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Catsquotl mentions vipassana retreats. These are usually ten days long and I know people who have found them quite transformational. Simply being in that kind of environment, away from our usual routine, focused on certain practices, means that we can go much deeper.

There's several flavors of Vipassana. The one that got the most attention is promoted by S. N. Goenka. I must say that i don't know this one. I believe it's 10 days of sitting meditation. I did a 15 day variant that originated Through Mahasi Sayadaw and popularized in thailand by the late Ajaan Tong Sirimangalo. There we alternate between walking and sitting meditation.

I chose this one as the meditation centers / temples operate on a Dana only basis Which helped in making it affordable for me..

I did my first retreat here: vipassana-dhammacari.com/

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Catsquotl

There's several flavors of Vipassana. The one that got the most attention is promoted by S. N. Goenka. I must say that i don't know this one. I believe it's 10 days of sitting meditation.

The people I know who have done vipassana retreats have done the Goenka version. From memory it is not just 10 days of sitting in meditation. The day is broken up into different practices, some done alone in your room, others done as a group meditation, with breaks for meals and video presentations of S.N. Goenka in the evening. There are opportunities to ask questions but otherwise it is all done in silence.

A major part seems to be just being aware of whatever arises in the body. Reading various accounts it seems as if people go through all sorts of things, including a lot of frustration and boredom. But often there comes a moment of surrender leading to a breakthrough, and it is this which keeps people coming back for more.

But they do insist that any other meditation practices people might do should not be done during a vipassana retreat. No yoga, no mantras, nothing except the meditation they prescribe. Which is why I have never felt drawn to such a retreat.

Peace

[Willyeast]

Thank-you. It does make sense we need to sit longer. Do you find longer sessions need to be done everyday to have long term benefit or is less often also useful?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

It does make sense we need to sit longer. Do you find longer sessions need to be done everyday to have long term benefit or is less often also useful?

Any longer session of meditation has to be beneficial, whether it happens every day or just once a week or once a month. Again I can only speak from my own experience. I learned to meditate in a group which emphasised long hours of meditation. Two hours every morning, two hours every evening, a six hour meditate every weekend, plus the occasional longer meditate of up to four days or more. No wonder my mind complained at first!!

But then it became normal and then I began to enjoy it. But nowadays many years later I find a certain laziness in myself and I only sit for an hour, although (because of my strong foundation in meditation) I know I can sit for much longer when I choose.

So I don't know how meditation is for those who might have had a less intense introduction to meditation. I said previously that however long you meditate you can always double it. Which is true but it may mean getting up that much earlier in the morning.

Everyone's situation is different. You might have family responsibilities or work commitments which place practical limitations on how much meditation you can do. But I do know that my deepest meditations have always been the longer ones. I suggest that you find whatever works for you and your life situation. The spiritual journey is a very practical journey.

Peace

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Much depends on the type of meditation we do and how long we actually meditate every day.
Plus what we do with the rest of the day when we are not formally sitting.

and therein lies the key to ever present inner silence