Mind, body and awareness identity

[Ewwerrin]

Do you believe you are awareness?
Or just the body?
Or mind?
Or do you believe you are all three as the same one thing?
Or do you believe you are awareness aware of mind and body?

Do you believe there is a seperation between awareness and body, or that they are one and the same thing.

[Maisy]

Those questions are so hard to unpack.

I think the thing we really are, and not the stuff we "have" or experience through the inward and outward senses is invisible. It's undetectable energy. So since what we really are cannot be seen or experienced in any way, we react and believe in the seen and felt. The body, the face, the beliefs, opinions, the voice, actions, what is spoken, what they/we do, wear, their/our age etc.

"I am" is this body to myself and the culture and world. To my friends, my parents, my co-workers, children, strangers. We take pictures of ourselves (our bodies and faces) post them online. Here I am in this photo! Here is what I am eating and doing. I try to look good in the photo's. Maybe add a filter.

I believe in life after death so I don't believe I am the body or the brain's products and content. But as long as I am in a body, everyone will treat me like this is who and what I am. I experience everything through this body. I communicate with this body. I listen with this body. I am this body for now! I step on a splinter I feel it. If someone pulls on my hair I feel it. If I eat too much I feel it. If someone is mean to me or calls me a name or threatens me I feel it.

For now, all of this is what I am. All of it. The body, the thoughts, the memories, the story, the feelings, the good and bad, the background. But then at some point we leave the body then we are something and someone else. We probably have a different name. The name we had before this incarnation and the name we will remember after it, when our true memories are no longer blocked. When we remember our true identity again.

The trippy thing would be if we leave that astral body as well at some point and then regain other memories and remember another different identity. That's like that old science fiction movie about the guy who wakes up from a "dream world" into the "real world" then at the end of the movie we discover (and the character) that the second world was a dream as well. I can never remember the name of that movie but it was good.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Do you believe there is a seperation between awareness and body, or that they are one and the same thing.

The fact that we are aware of the body indicates that we are something separate from the body.

Likewise the fact that we are aware of the mind and the thoughts arising in the mind indicates that we are something separate from the mind.

And we are aware of our personality which indicates that we are something separate from this personality.

Awareness of something requires that we are separate from that thing.

And we refer to "my body" and "my mind". Who is the "me" who regards the mind and body as "mine"?

Plus the fact that the mind and body and personality are always changing, yet our identity remains constant. If we were the mind and body and personality then our identity would be continually changing. But that consciousness which is gazing out of my eyes is unchanged from that consciousness which gazed out of my eyes fifty years ago.

Peace

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

The fact....
.... eyes fifty years ago.
Peace

i always feel like my identity is ever changing, my mind and body being all that I am, and it is tormenting.

How can I develop the same unchanging awareness and consciousness as my identity, as you have?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

i always feel like my identity is ever changing, my mind and body being all that I am, and it is tormenting. How can I develop the same unchanging awareness and consciousness as my identity, as you have?

I must admit that it is difficult for me to imagine feeling like an ever-changing identity.

Is there no sense of anything constant? Yes, the body changes, the mind changes, our emotional states change, the personality as a whole may change over time. But is the Ewwerrin of today the same individual entity as the Ewwerrin who was once a child?

Or to express it differently, is the "I" now functioning in an adult body the same "I" which once functioned in the body of a child?

And to take it a step further, you say "i always feel like my identity is ever changing ...." The fact that you are aware of your identity always changing suggests that there is some part of you which is not changing, in order for you to be able to recognise the change.

If you were just your ever-changing identity then you would not recognise the change. There is something constant within you which recognises your current state of identity and is able to compare it with your previous state of identity.

I am not sure if I am making my point clear.

As for how to develop this unchanging awareness, then I can recommend 40+ years of meditation. But I realise that meditation is not easy for you. But then it has not always been easy for me, especially my first year.

Peace

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by iamthat

I must admit...
....my first year.
Peace

Thanks, that is so good news. I will definitely put way more effort into meditation then.

I recognize the everchange by a constant state of confusion. but you are right, maybe there is the same unchanging awareness potential in me for me to align with maybe through more meditation.

I will definitely meditate more now because its been so beneficial for you it seems. I can only see good things from meditation. No matter how hard it is for me. I will have to find a way to push through. The alternative is tormenting anyway. Might aswell put more effort to focus in meditation.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

i always feel like my identity is ever changing,

Is the one that knows that ever changing? I would say no as the idea the identity is always changing is never changing. I think the identity there is pretty unchanging. It never changes it's beliefs does it? What changes in the one that believes the identity is always changing?

I think a good question is how to make that identity change? The real identity. The one who never changes the belief that the identity is always changing? I think that one is always the same day after day. Instead of projecting the idea that the identity is something or someone other than the one that is holding all the beliefs and opinions and seeing all this change, look backwards at the source of these beliefs and opinions. That is the true identity and somehow is missing being seen.

I think we can imagine all these identities as being "out there" that we are looking at or seeing but the looker is the only identity. The only one with conscious awareness. There is only one entity, one identity, one me, one I, one soul.

But then when we see or discover ourselves, the true identity, the only identity, the one that never changes, the one that holds all the opinions and beliefs, the one looking, judging, interpreting, then comes the potential for change. Once we discover what we are, we see clearly what we are not. Then comes the possibility of change.

[Maisy]

Oh and I think we don't change. We just change what we are identifying with. What we are associating with. That changes who we are, what we do, how we act, what we say, what we perceive, what we experience.... but what we are never changes.

It's like a squirrel gathering up items to add to it's nest. What we gather up determines who and what we are. But we didn't change, we just changed what we gathered up.

In a way we changed as we became more aware, more able to discern the best things to gather up or throw away.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Plus the fact that the mind and body and personality are always changing, yet our identity remains constant. If we were the mind and body and personality then our identity would be continually changing. But that consciousness which is gazing out of my eyes is unchanged from that consciousness which gazed out of my eyes fifty years ago.

Peace

I am always a bit puzzled when it is said that our identity doesn't change because when I am asleep it has definitely changed and I am obviously not aware of anything when I am in deep sleep, therefore my identity has changed, because it is not the same as when I am in the waking state.....

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Tamara

I am always a bit puzzled when it is said that our identity doesn't change because when I am asleep it has definitely changed and I am obviously not aware of anything when I am in deep sleep, therefore my identity has changed, because it is not the same as when I am in the waking state.....

My views on this are:

In the dream state (if we be aware or conscious in dreams), we may see that we are responding to whatever appears spontaneously, that is, as of our core instincts, whereas in the waking state (if we are present and mindful), there is a small element of free will, essentially with one choice being ‘higher or unifying’ and the other ‘lower or separating’.

As for deep sleep, we wake up from it unaware simply because it is a singularity, cognition of which is lost in duality. Maybe we can ask those who say they are awake in all three states of consciousness.