A question

[Presence]

Hi Folks,

I was hoping someone here might help me out with a question. I love Ramana Maharshi and one of the things he is famous for saying is, "You are not the doer." I understand this from the perspective of non-duality. But my question is, how does this work with reincarnation and working through our karma? We are "doers" in that sense, right? We're trying to make good choices and do good things. So how does that fit with Ramana Maharshi saying we are not the doers? Appreciate any thoughts you might have on this. Thank you!

[kralaro]

Taking inspiration from the Gita, i say why bother about karma.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Presence

... how does this work with reincarnation and working through our karma? We are "doers" in that sense, right?
...So how does that fit with Ramana Maharshi saying we are not the doers?

Oh boy - so many ways how to talk on this are going on in my head!
It's an exciting question. And so many will come at it from all directions - which will be fun. :)
Ramana understood, through his direct exp, that All is One...there is Only One. Many have exp'd this, also.
Ramana was ready to maintain it, tho! :)

We, (ok, following Forum parameters:''IMO")..we seem or appear as individual beings...and we are - 'sort of'. We aren't puppets.
..................
I wrote 4 more paragraphs I deleted - this is an enormous topic and can get very involved...it's like covering:
Why do we exist? What are we doing here? Who is the Creator? What is His purpose?

It could be a Chapter of pages in a book.
Maybe someone could take over from here? LOL!

[FallingLeaves]

as far as not being puppets go...

i find that i normally have this 'feeling'. The particular feeling I have means I am being a 'doer' and sometimes I emphasize that by 'doing difficult stuff'.

but i can easily get into a state where I have another 'feeling' entirely. It is like, I'm being moved by outside forces, not having my own volition. That is interesting too. Although some might protest and call it the motion of 'demons' for example...

But, depending on which feeling I choose as 'THE ONE TRUE FEELING (TM)' and try to avoid the other I'm going to tell you completely different stories about the relationship to myself and reality.

In one case I'm going to say everyone is doing stuff and can never stop; in the other case I'm going to say noone is doing anything and can ever start.

And I'm of course going to base my future activities on what I've just chosen to say... and base my relationships with others on what I've chosen as well.

But I never see that I have a choice that I can accept both, because I know the idea of 'THE ONE TRUE FEELING (TM)' reigns supreme....

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

but i can easily get into a state where I have another 'feeling' entirely. It is like, I'm being moved by outside forces, not having my own volition. That is interesting too.

It's very interesting and I know exactly what you mean through my own experiences. I personally think it's the 'unconscious mind' which is inaccessible to the 'conscious mind' but influences our judgement and behaviour. Just my opinion though.....

[kralaro]

FallingLeaves and sky, both science and Lord Krishna agree with your experiences. In science, yes decision making has been theoretically considered deterministic but then they have done experiments and found that the decision is already formed in the unconscious mind before the person decides. And Lord Krishna:
https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...10&postcount=8
It's a relief to me that the show is being run by God, everything is perfect.

[kralaro]

I got back to reading my book and coincidentally this came up, i too am reading it for the first time, i guess i'm supposed to share it with you guys:

The rishis are the puppeteers, and all other beings in the universe, mortal and immortal, are their puppets. The rishis go around creating rnas for people to work off, to bind people down and help them progress. If you want to quit being a puppet, you must perform sadhana.

"rnas" mean debts of karmas. "rishi", i can't define these great beings but i guess "seer". "sadhana" = spiritual practice.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky

It's very interesting and I know exactly what you mean through my own experiences. I personally think it's the 'unconscious mind' which is inaccessible to the 'conscious mind' but influences our judgement and behaviour. Just my opinion though.....

yeah i figured that it was easy enough to know about that, as I stumbled on to it at an early age when i knew little or nothing about anything... I was quite lost for a long while after that lol.... my own favorite preference nowadays is to blame it on my 'twin' but really, I just don't know what is going on sometimes....

[Presence]

Thank you all for your interesting responses. You've given me a lot to think about. Yes, it's interesting about experience. The experience of not being the doer must be an enlightened state and maybe karma is transcended at that point. Maybe we keep touching it until we get there permanently. I would love to live that way. Imagine the freedom and peace. Thank you again everybody : )

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

yeah i figured that it was easy enough to know about that, as I stumbled on to it at an early age when i knew little or nothing about anything...

So when I was a child being caught out doing naughty things and I said 'it's not my fault' I wasn't telling lies