Purgatory

[Lynn]

Purgatory

What does it mean ?

Is it a process of “purification”

Is it a time of “temporary punishment”

We do know that notion dates to the very start of Christianity a time when man was turning from the path of the worship of “gods” to the idea and worship of one “God” . One is taken back to the time of the Roman’s , a time when there was worships of many Roman god’s and to view the Roman Emperor as divine. Too we have this time to thank for something called “Taxes”. The Fiscus Iudaicus ( like our tax agencies ) but this one was set to collect taxes for the Jew’s in the Roman Empire.

This was a time of great changes and great struggles. To go against the Roman Empire was seen as an act of what is called “Heretical” in the more modern word “Heresy”, it goes to the clash of one belief to another where there are conflicts in the very “Dogma” established. Dogma being the belief held by a Religion. It is not to be disputed of put in doubts. Carved in stone so to speak. Thus it was too a time of Religious wars and many deaths.
　

Having now established the path to the idea of “Purgatory” what does it mean, well it is believed to be a place that Soul’s be dispatched to that are not yet ready for the entry to Haven. If one is to see it on the level of a place one is dispatched for the “purifications” then it be like a hospital in a sense, where one would be given care and a school where one would receive teachings and lessons. A place where the issues of that very Soul are examined and wounds and sufferings healed, and issues cleared away.

If one is to view “purgatory” as “temporary punishment” then what and whom decides this ?

It would be said that God does, but purpose would it truly serve ?

As time has moved ever forward so have the notions on what “Purgatory” might well be or mean. It comes from the Latin “Purgatorium” what almost has the sound of what we would now call a jail or asylum. Thoughts on the suffering after one’s death, (even if it be said to be temporary), the ides of some sort of torments. If there be such a place that some that are thought to do bad deeds in life or even Sin, then there too must be someone or some force that governs when one has done one’s dues and is to be set free to go forth to Heaven. In the Christian faith that would be Angels.

Is “Purgatory” a place, and where did this idea come from ? It might well date to when man first started to pay honour and respect to their dead. To prey over the dead, or do a ceremony to make sure that one did make it to the “ Afterlife” We can look to Ancient Egypt for this elaborate practice of honoring their Faros. There are many ancient traditions we can look to where the dead were cared for in a careful way to make one’s journey over a successful one.

Was the idea of “Purgatory” put maybe in place for man to keep to a solid and true path in his life, to do the work and hear the word of God ?


It is thought that when one dies there might well be a time of judgment ( this can be more Catholic in nature of teachings ) where it is decided if one moves on or if one is stuck to wonder the Earth Plane for a time. This is where the notion of the counter to a Heaven comes into play, that place of Hell. Hell is said to be a pit of fire where one’s Soul is condemned to be in forever more. One is said to have gone there when one breaks from his path with God, but too it is later said that one that has ( in Catholicism) done Sin against God and has not received absolution goes forth to Hell. Would a LOVing God whom is said to have created all in His image too create in such a place as Hell. More Hell might well be mere Metaphor (the concept of understanding one thing in terms of another).

That place put forth to keep man on his path with God ?

This idea is one that travel though many a faith and belief system.


What are one’s thoughts on Purgatory does one feel it’s temporary punishment or purification or both maybe ?

Is Purgatory a place or more just a feeling of transitions for the Soul ?

Would a God that is said to have created man in His image too create such a place as Heaven, Purgatory and Hell ?

　
　



Lynn
　

Originally Posted by Lynn

Would a God that is said to have created man in His image too create such a place as Heaven, Purgatory and Hell ?
　

In regards to hell, why would a Just God not create hell? Are they not already separated from God by their unbelief and action (whether they even understand the concept of Justice)? Why not give the sinner what they want? That is, eternal separation from a Holy God?

Matthew 18 describes an everlasting fire. Nobody talked more on the subject of hell than Jesus Christ.

In regards to purgatory:

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is often cited in defense of Purgatory, where the concluding phrase is "yet it will be like an escape through fire."

Purgatory denies one of the fundamental teachings of the NT--that Jesus' death on the cross atoned for all our sin, not simply original sin (Romans 3:21-26; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Because of that atonement, though we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, those who have placed faith in Christ will never face condemnation (Romans 5:1; 8:1;2 Corinthians 5:10).

[Perry J]

Purgatory and hell are concepts, as you say, from the Roman Catholic Church, made to scare people to go to their churches. This church was from the beginning an extension of the Roman Empire, where the Emperor already was God on Earth (make no mistake: The pope is, too. And the goal of this church of antichrist is global dominion).

This of course is the dogma of the outer God, which opposes Jesus’ teaching that God is within.

An outer God makes it possible for people to place themselves between people and their God, whereby they promoted themselves as the only channels to reach God. Hence, the concept of heresy, blasphemy, was soon invented. It’s heresy to challenge people who want to be gods, because that would be a threat to them.
See what a perfect control mechanism this is? An elite grasped total control over human beings by presenting themselves as representatives of God, whom could condemn people to purgatory or hell – or save them! And we all come from this. This terror is still implanted deeply within us.

Purgatory in the other meaning (God within) is the violet flame that consumes all that’s not you, everything which is not part of your true Identity as a child of God. This is not a flame of pain.

Pope Leo X (11 December 1475 – 1 December 1521) was Pope from 1513 to his death in 1521. He was the last non-priest to be elected Pope
he sold indulgences to help in the reconstruction of St.Peters basilica. Of course he came up with the idea in order to get people to pay indulgences for the release of those stuck in purgatory.

To fulfil the teaching office of their pastoral ministry, the Apostles and their successors, the bishops, are given a gift of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The Pope, as head of the college of bishops, enjoys this gift of infallibility in a unique sense. As pastor and supreme teacher of all the faithful, and charged with the responsibility to confirm his brothers and sisters in the faith, the Pope may proclaim as definitive a point of doctrine touching faith and morals.

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Perry J

Purgatory and hell are concepts, as you say, from the Roman Catholic Church, made to scare people to go to their churches.

This is true of purgatory but not of hell. Jesus spoke of hell a long time before there was any church in Rome.

[Perry J]

Originally Posted by theophilus

This is true of purgatory but not of hell. Jesus spoke of hell a long time before there was any church in Rome.

If Jesus spoke of it, it was a metaphor adjusted to the state of consciousness of the people 2000 years ago. Hell exists, but not as a place of eternal fire where you burn forever (this was promoted by the catholic inquisitors to be interpreted LITERALLY)
Jesus uses parables and metaphors. Nevertheless he is interpreted literally. This is a great tragedy.
If you are open-minded, here's what Jesus says about hell 2000 years later:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealj...enandhell.html

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by Perry J

If Jesus spoke of it, it was a metaphor adjusted to the state of consciousness of the people 2000 years ago. Hell exists, but not as a place of eternal fire where you burn forever (this was promoted by the catholic inquisitors to be interpreted LITERALLY)
Jesus uses parables and metaphors. Nevertheless he is interpreted literally. This is a great tragedy.
If you are open-minded, here's what Jesus says about hell 2000 years later:
http://www.askrealjesus.com/askrealjesus/jesusanswers/spiritrealm/truthheavenandhell.html

this is true, the concept of hell come from the Jewish Sheol which means "grave", "pit", or "abyss"...

Neat website, Perry J.

Originally Posted by Shim

In regards to hell, why would a Just God not create hell? Are they not already separated from God by their unbelief and action (whether they even understand the concept of Justice)? Why not give the sinner what they want? That is, eternal separation from a Holy God?

Matthew 18 describes an everlasting fire. Nobody talked more on the subject of hell than Jesus Christ.

In regards to purgatory:

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 is often cited in defense of Purgatory, where the concluding phrase is "yet it will be like an escape through fire."

Purgatory denies one of the fundamental teachings of the NT--that Jesus' death on the cross atoned for all our sin, not simply original sin (Romans 3:21-26; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Because of that atonement, though we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, those who have placed faith in Christ will never face condemnation (Romans 5:1; 8:1;2 Corinthians 5:10).

You may want to consider why God, (who is said to be all knowing and all loving,) created a being that would eventually rebel and become Satan; This being of course, was the origin of what we call evil and sin.

What happened with this being we call Satan? Did the all loving all knowing God knowingly create this being, hence actually creating what he knew would be evil. Or was he blind sided because he doesn't know everything and was sucker punched by one of his created being when it decided to turn against him?

Then we must ask ourselves; If God created Satan knowingly, then is it fair or just to roast and torture people for all eternity for being tempted by the evil that he created? Isn't that like offering a child a snack you don't want it to have and then punishing it for taking the snack?

But what if God made a huge mistake and created a ticking time bomb that would eventually become the Devil? What if God didn't see it coming? Then is he going to burn people alive for his mistake? Either way, God created the evil that brought sin, temptation and all of those terrible things to mankind.... So then, doesn't God also deserve to be punished in hell for being the maker of all evil??? Why does he get to create it, unleash it, let roam around the cosmos tempting people, leading them away from God... and then punish them for falling into the trap that he ultimately made. That is not just, that is unjust. That is not love, it is demented and cruel. And if all this be the case, then as I said, doesn't God deserve hell along with all of these fallen angels and sinful men?

Put a little logic to this argument... think about it. It is not an attack on God, it is a serious look at some of the things we were taught to believe about the Divine Spirit.

Let's get a little real folks.

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by The Sphinx

You may want to consider why God, (who is said to be all knowing and all loving,) created a being that would eventually rebel and become Satan; This being of course, was the origin of what we call evil and sin.

God is infinite but our minds are limited so we can't possible expect to understand why God does what he does. Since God is good and wise we can know that he has a good reason even if we can't understand what that reason is. Ephesians 3:10 tells us one reason God had for creation:

God created all things, so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.

How and why the creation shows his wisdom is something we can't understand while we are in this life and in fact it isn't necessary for us to understand it. If we fully obey God the things we don't understand now will be made clear to us in the future.

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
(1 Corinthians 13:12 ESV)