How to differentiate between astral projection and dreaming

[Horse]

Last night I tried to leave my body a few times. First time I thought I had done it so I jumped out my bedroom window but rather than ending up out the back garden, I ended up outside a huge temple with Buddha statues all over the place. It was nighttime and there was a big flame at the top, it was a spectacular site and I was convinced at the time that it was the astral plane but why would my window lead to a place like that?

I moved my physical body and was awake again then I dozed off to give it another try. This time I wasn't in my bedroom, I was in a kitchen and there was a woman feeding a baby. I wandered off and in the hallway some girl came up and hugged me, she said something like "so you've crossed over", I took that to mean that shes dead and she assumed I'd died too and thats how I got to the astral. She was acting like she knew me and she wanted me to meet someone so I followed her and along the way I was asking her questions then I noticed she started changing form, at one point she had vampire fangs, then she had 3 eyes. I assumed she was a neg and was leading me into some kinda trap so I left through the front door. She said "I wouldn't go out there, its wet". The scenery was pretty spectacular again, it was misty out and there was this big pond and the whole area was lit up by the moon.

The next 2 attempts after that I couldn't move at all. I was glued to my bed. I could see my semi visible foot in front of me but I couldn't move any further than it. Was very frustrating. I just wanted to jump out the window but couldn't move. How can I tell if these were astral projections or just lucid dreams? I should mention that I couldn't phase through matter. I had to throw the blanket off myself and I even got tangled up in the blanket at one point. I was in a unique position to do all this because for some reason I was aware of the process of me falling asleep. I wasn't going into sleep paralysis, instead I started seeing visions and thats what let me know I was no longer awake.

Hi, Barnacle!

That is some interesting experience you had. What you have experienced has been interpreted in so many ways and people have come up with countless names for it:

Out-of-Body Experiences (OOBEs or OBEs); Out-of-Body Travel; Astral Projection; Astral Travel; Spirit Walking; Soul Travel; Quantum Jumping (this is a comical one as it is tied to living out other lives within this state); Phasing (part of Robert Monroe's latter terminology); Lucid Dreaming (pragmatically including DILDs and WILDs - with the latter postulated as being accountable for the illusion of separating from the body) etc. etc.

You have probably already read about where I stand with the whole thing:
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...ad.php?t=34714

As I see it, all those terms are describing the same state of consciousness... the same phenomenon... despite the fact that it can be entered in many different ways, different times of the day, interpreted in various ways and the experiences themselves can vary. Of course, if you adhere to a spiritual/New Age interpretation on the subject, then you are entitled to it.

I feel, however, that a lot of this terminology causes confusion and leads many to believe that there is more than one type of experience when the state is the same.

The anomalies you have described are typical and quite familiar. On some level, you have also expressed your confusion and you have every right to be baffled by its nature. Why should your bedroom window lead to a Buddhist temple, right?

Unless, of course, there is a replica of your home in the astral plane which continuously fluctuates and the windows can act as portals to other worlds. but why is it that the same portal seems to lead to different places each time you use it? Well, one can argue that the laws of physics don't apply there and the real system of navigation is your mind, which, mind you, can be a hard thing to tame especially when you have a conscious and an unconscious side to it.

Many see such experiences in a mystical halo, in fact, it is hard not to interpret your first OOBE or even a lucid dream as the soul leaving the body and travelling to other realms of existence. There are, however, other people who move in different circles who also have had such experiences. Their interpretations, however, are quite different and they are also entitled to their view with good reason:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NwKkbd2e-c
http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/ou...xperience.html

[Horse]

No, I think these were just lucid dreams, not OBEs. The mind can be very tricky like that, if I'm trying to have an OBE, my brain will create a dream that seems a lot like an astral experience but so far, it has always turned out to be just a lucid dream. These were WILDs I was having, usually I have to go through sleep paralysis to have WILDs but I have some valium in my system and benzodiazepines make me immune to sleep paralysis so I can bypass it altogether which is interesting. Yeah I read your thread and so far, my experience coincides with your theory. I have yet to have an OBE but my minds still open to the possibility.

I left out an experience from last night. Before those 2 glued to the bed experiences, I jumped out the window and ended up on what I thought was my street. When I woke up, I realised it wasn't my street, it was the street I lived on as a kid. In lucid dreams, our memories aren't always fully intact. Memories are fluid, this very evident by observing dreams. I left an aspect of the Buddhist temple dream out too. I was flying towards the temple and since I considered it might be real, I was very careful not to make noise or cause trouble for the monks or whoever were in there. I approached the temple and I heard a female voice say "you're a wonderful person" or something like that but being the paranoid edit that I am, I suspected that the Buddhist statues might be there to lull people into a false sense of security so I turned around, then the voice said "you have no enemies in this dream". I don't really know what to make of all that, just thought I should add all the details.

My view of it is that the astral and the physical planes overlap so that one can be in the physical plane whilst in your astral body. Kinda like a ghost. Thats just a theory, I don't believe that cuz I haven't experienced it. Have you ever experienced sleep deprivation induced psychosis? Its a very interesting phenomenon in which you start dreaming while still awake. At least, thats my theory on what the hallucinations are. It gives clear insight into how what we perceive to be reality is no more real than a dream. I had one really interesting hallucination one day. I walked into my bedroom and saw something at the edge of the table that looked like insect wings flapping. You know when you see a dragon fly hovering, the way its wings move. It even made the sound that goes with it. I went in for a closer inspection and it stopped moving. It was a piece of cellophane wrapper. If you've studied quantum physics, you'll find this extremely interesting because a quantum mechanical explanation may be that the wavefunction only collapsed when I went in for a closer inspection. That was before I went to college to study chemistry so I knew nothing about quantum physics back then. When it stopped moving, a voice in my head said "you've slipped into a parallel universe". While I don't recommend pursuing this state (sleep deprivation induced psychosis caused by staying up too long on **LETS SAY ADRENALINE SINCE I DONT WANT THIS REPLY TO BE DELETED BY THE MODS** because it is pretty horrifying, it does teach you a lot about reality so if you are a true ontologist, its an experience worth attaining.

Sounds like you have a lot of experience with lucid dreaming. I'm gonna try some of those deepening techniques you mentioned because so far, the only one I really use is going on a rampage (keeping active). Another one is to convince yourself that the dream is real. I can half believe that its real but its not all that effective.

Omg , stop feeding the troll! (summerlander)
Since he came back looks like people set up threads just so he could answer and spread his views.

[Horse]

Whats wrong with someone spreading their views? All that matters is the truth. There shouldn't be any ulterior motives here. Summerlander believes that all reported OBEs are just lucid dreams. Whats wrong with that? We're all entitled to our own opinions. I setup this thread so astral travellers could enlighten me on how to differentiate between LDs and OBEs.

I am very new to all of this and recently had an experience that has been described as an OBE. I will not lay my life on the line that is was an OBE but I am 99.9% certain it was not just a lucid dream because of what happened.

I believed I was lucky enough to stumble into this state of consciousness because I am not trained, however I am now seeking guidance from a Shamanic practitioner so in time I might be able to better explore such realms with more confidence.

[Horse]

Can you describe your experience Agares?

Interesting, Agares. Please tells us what happened in detail...

Originally Posted by Barnacle

Can you describe your experience Agares?

Originally Posted by Summerlander

Interesting, Agares. Please tells us what happened in detail...

I went to bed and fell asleep for approximately an hour and a half, I disturbed from my sleep and feeling aroused I decided to masturbate. After finishing I once again closed my eyes and started to rest hoping to fall fully asleep again.
I found myself in a strange state that was very unusual and more oddly I felt a weight on my pelvis and shoulders that was as real as I have ever felt, this quickly turned into a feeling of a woman having sex with me with her hands firmly on my shoulders, but as quick as I identified the action it was over and I was again back in a state I have never felt before but this time it was stronger, the only way I can explain it was it felt as if I was in-between sleep and a full consciousness.
I have been recently reading a book where a spiritualist that works with people who have recently died to help them find their way after death, and how she puts herself in a deep state of meditation and then uses a practise of focusing on a candle light to pull herself down towards as she describes it 'the river of death' where these souls of people reside. Being able to remember process this I started within this state to imagine a light and then letting myself be pulled by it, it didn’t take long for this to start happening and I do not mind admitting I found the experience terrifying, I was scared of where I was actually going and if I’d be able to come back so I quickly stopped and focused on returning for which obviously happened.
I was very freaked out and felt extremely thirsty as if I had not drunk any fluid for days. I believed I was getting out of bed to get a drink to quench my thirst however my bedroom looked ever so slightly different, almost unnoticeable but different none the less. I carried on walking and noticed the standby light for the DVD was showing as on even though I always turn all electrical items off, so I leant over to switch it off and found that indeed the switch was in the off position. Ignoring this I moved from my bedroom into the hall and then into the kitchen which again had small red lights on electrical items that should be off, most noticeable was the cooker hobs. This made me feel a little queasy but what really made me come to terms that things weren’t right was when I realised the kitchen was still dark even though I had turned the lights on, knowing that I obviously wasn’t in the "real" world I quickly made my way back to bedroom to get back in bed so I could awaken from this experience which was extremely uncomfortable, and then the final bizarre aspect of all over this was that I noticed I was wearing my slippers something I never do and I certainly never take them to bed! As quick as I lay down in this uncomfortable environment I was able to pull myself out of this state and awaken fully without any difficultly.
I know a lot of people will dismiss this experience as simply a dream, but I was in full control of my actions and thoughts. Furthermore now I am awake and have been analysing in a rational way what happened two things have since come to mind for which I would like someone to offer me guidance on. I have been reading many books and accounts by various spiritualists and practitioners of the left and right hand path for a few years now simply hoping to better understand our existence, within these books on multiple accounts I have read two theories that I believe have some bearing on last nights experience about how living people are able to cross between the differing realms, the first is based on the often mocked theories of Aleister Crowley and Thelema where the point of orgasm is a strong conductor that can be used in magick, and how the stage between REM (Rapid eye movement) sleep and full consciousness is the ideal situation for crossing over that some spiritualists spend years practising how to achieve through meditation. Could it be that because I was in a semi awake state when I climaxed during masturbation, the combination of this and not being fully conscious allowed me to accidently stubble into this unique state?
If I am correct I feel due to my few years of interest in spiritualism and magick it allowed my mind to actively explore the opportunity rather than just ignore it and allow my mind to slip into full REM which the vast majority of people must do on a very regular bases?
I am reaching out to more experienced people within this field to help me understand what happened last night, whether it was positive or negative, because although I did not enjoy what I experienced I am of the curious persuasion so I do hope I can again one day return but this time with more knowledge so that I can better control my emotions and get even more from it.

I have not read what the others have said because many of the posts just look like a huge wall of text and I am allergic to that :/ So sorry if I repeat anything.

I like to see everything as the astral and I have always felt that I knew how to explain it but I couldn't form it to words. But then I read (a member on this forum) Xanth's book "Phasing Primer" that explained it like this:

Dreaming, Lucid dreaming, and astral projection are not different places or different phenomena, they are like different mind-states just like you can be tired, alert, dizzy and so on in the physical world you can experience the same kind of states in the astral.

This is my explanation which was inspired by Xanth's so don't think I quote him, because if you want to know what he said you have to read the book, because I am very bad at explaining :(

Dreaming - You are not aware that you are dreaming and sometimes not aware at all.

Lucid Dreaming - You are more aware and you know it is a dream, but you are not fully aware you need to keep a plan of action to remember to do stuff and sometimes you don't remember waking life memories. Sometimes you even want to do unnecessary things like try to convince a dream character to realize that it's a dream (that you created yourself since your subconscious or at least you are filling it).

Astral Projection - This is when you fully realize that you are in the non-physical and you also remember physical memories and can think freely, no need to stabilize anything like in a lucid dream since you are not in that unstable state.

The point is that everything is happening in the astral and these are just terms of different states of mind.
I like to believe that this is the way it is, but I don't know because I haven't experienced the astral corresponding with the physical world.. yet...

I hope this helped ;)

Chris.