Is the modern idea of "salvation" selfish? Have we missed the point?

Churches have for the longest time preached of salvation as a major draw for converting those and leading others to Christ. Even missionaries, who do great works throughout the world, use the eternal reward of heaven as their primary tool in conversion. My issue with this is, doesn't that contradict most of what Jesus came to earth to preach? If there is one thing I can get out of Jesus time on earth from the bible it is the importance of a selfless and loving life. But if people are converting because they want to get to heave, isn't that missing the point?

Perhaps the issue was more important to the people 2000 years ago and this was required for them to listen, but with what we have today is the concept of salvation even necessary to be a Christian? The bible speaks just as much about returning to a oneness with God after death as it does of the intrinsic reward of heaven and eternal safety, but we hear about the latter far more.

Do you think we've missed the point? Should salvation even be an issue rather than simply making the world a better place and being more loving people while we are here?

Originally Posted by Aesop

Do you think we've missed the point? Should salvation even be an issue rather than simply making the world a better place and being more loving people while we are here?

Jesus talked about being saved, and about rewards, and about eternal life. It's not all what happens after we die, all of these things become a reality once we start obeying his teachings.

Salvation from sin, from death, and eternal life, is something that inspires us. I know that no matter how hard I try to overcome, and how much I seek to live in God's light here and now, there are times when things seem dark, and it's at those times that the hope of something eternally better than what we currently face helps push one onward.

People may say that hope is false, but hope to me pretty much on par with faith. It is hope for something we know to be true, but that we cannot see. I thank God not just for opportunity for eternal life and the rewards that come with his salvation, but for making it known what we will recieve if we are found faithful.

Anyway, them's me thoughts.

Why should it be thought a bad thing to accept the gift of eternal life? I see no merit in denying self what The Lord would give us. It is not that we rob anyone else of God's gifts since salvation is free to all who accept it.

I experienced the first result of salvation to be receiving the spiritual ability to love others and act upon that love. We don't hide the light God gives us "under a bushel."

I have grown up going to church and reading the Bible and I can't swallow the idea that if we don't do what God says, he is going to burn us in hell. Sounds like this taught came from men as a form of controling people. Even we mere humans would not think of kill or burning our children because they don't obey us!

I do not see a clear teaching of eternal burning in hell in the Bible and certainly not in the spiritual revelations I have had in which I experienced God as completely loving.
I do not know exactly what becomes of the "unbelieving" but I think we all have a god-like ability to choose to believe in Christ or not.
I think we ourselves choose life or death it simply being a matter of allowing this mortal to put on immortality. That is, to allow God to change us by his indwelling spirit to be that which is eternal, or to refuse to accept this immortality because we do not want to be the love that He sheds on us and which transforms us into his image.

I do not think it is a matter of some ritual, such as baptism or communion service but is purely a spiritual matter and what we allow God to do for us.

I rather suspect one who rejects eternal life, simply does not have it.

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Aesop

Do you think we've missed the point? Should salvation even be an issue rather than simply making the world a better place and being more loving people while we are here?

Jesus didn't come to make the world a better place but to make the people in the world better. He did this by offering them salvation and the forgiveness of sins.

I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”
(Luke 5:32 ESV)

For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a man give in return for his soul?
(Mark 8:36-37 ESV)

When people turn from sinful lifestyles and become followers of Jesus they will have a positive effect on the world and it will be a better place as a result but this is simply one of the results of the salvation of individuals.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Aesop

Do you think we've missed the point? Should salvation even be an issue rather than simply making the world a better place and being more loving people while we are here?

If salvation was only about getting to heaven, then yes I think it would be selfish, because going to heaven doesn't affect anyone else but you. Salvation is not just about that though, it's about changing our lives now. I don't see anything selfish about wanting to change your life, because it affects everyone else around you. I say be as selfish as possible about being transformed by your spiritual practices and beliefs.

Be selfish about being transformed by your spiritual beliefs, but don't worry about what others believe. That's a distraction from the transformation process that many get stuck in, and it stifles their progress. Focus on your relationship with God and no one else.

As Christians we are to let our light shine. Loving, caring, giving, and productive. Making the world better....


Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.


Matthew 7
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


Salvation is a gift, we should not turn away from..

Peace be with you all

[Reverend Keith]

Originally Posted by Aesop

Churches have for the longest time preached of salvation as a major draw for converting those and leading others to Christ. Even missionaries, who do great works throughout the world, use the eternal reward of heaven as their primary tool in conversion. My issue with this is, doesn't that contradict most of what Jesus came to earth to preach? If there is one thing I can get out of Jesus time on earth from the bible it is the importance of a selfless and loving life. But if people are converting because they want to get to heave, isn't that missing the point?

Perhaps the issue was more important to the people 2000 years ago and this was required for them to listen, but with what we have today is the concept of salvation even necessary to be a Christian? The bible speaks just as much about returning to a oneness with God after death as it does of the intrinsic reward of heaven and eternal safety, but we hear about the latter far more.

Do you think we've missed the point? Should salvation even be an issue rather than simply making the world a better place and being more loving people while we are here?

The root word in Hebrew that ends up being translated as "salvation" is "yasha", and in my opinion is better translated as "liberation". It has connotations of openness and freedom.

"Salvation" has come to be thought of in terms of snatching people out of hell, rather than liberating them into a state of freedom.

[Seawolf]

Originally Posted by Reverend Keith

The root word in Hebrew that ends up being translated as "salvation" is "yasha", and in my opinion is better translated as "liberation". It has connotations of openness and freedom.

"Salvation" has come to be thought of in terms of snatching people out of hell, rather than liberating them into a state of freedom.

Liberation or freedom is a very desirable state. I've heard people ask if salvation, or spiritual peace and freedom is selfish, and wondered myself. But is it really selfish to want change for yourself? I don't think so, because we can't fix other people anyway. But if we ourselves are saved, the world is saved. I always think it's the other person that needs saving instead of myself. LOL.