Guilt

[Honza]

As far as I know Christianity is the only religion which accepts that its subjects are guilty. The premise of guilt - confession - forgiveness - and redemption is exclusive to Christianity.

Christians by nature accept that they are guilty. They offer remorse and penitence to God and hope that God forgives them.

I fall into this camp. I can feel my guilt or imperfection in my bones.

I find the idea that "everything is as it should be" ludicrous. Was the holocaust "everything as it should be"? Is that what murder is too? People will say it is simple cause and effect - but to me it is far too serious to be explained by natural law.

To me I am guilty of sin. Most Christians accept the same premise. My only concern is that Jesus did not ADMIT that he is guilty too. He implied that He is perfect. That is my niggle with Jesus; He is too clean in many ways.

Does Jesus repent? Does Jesus confess? Perhaps not. This is why I still seek a higher power. God really ought to know that He is imperfect or guilty. He ought to know that He sins.

Christ did not seem to know this and therefore the whole cycle is repeated.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

As far as I know Christianity is the only religion which accepts that its subjects are guilty. The premise of guilt - confession - forgiveness - and redemption is exclusive to Christianity.

Christians by nature accept that they are guilty. They offer remorse and penitence to God and hope that God forgives them.

I fall into this camp. I can feel my guilt or imperfection in my bones.

I find the idea that "everything is as it should be" ludicrous. Was the holocaust "everything as it should be"? Is that what murder is too? People will say it is simple cause and effect - but to me it is far too serious to be explained by natural law.

To me I am guilty of sin. Most Christians accept the same premise. My only concern is that Jesus did not ADMIT that he is guilty too. He implied that He is perfect. That is my niggle with Jesus; He is too clean in many ways.

Does Jesus repent? Does Jesus confess? Perhaps not. This is why I still seek a higher power. God really ought to know that He is imperfect or guilty. He ought to know that He sins.

Christ did not seem to know this and therefore the whole cycle is repeated.

All Abrahamic Religions have 'Guilt ' as part of their Teachings.
I'm a firm believer in Cause and Effect so Guilt/Sin etc: doesn't enter my mind, and I also believe that everything is as it should in that moment in time through cause and effect.

[ThatMan]

The great Accuser, the human conscience, has its own role, you are born with it and you develop it through the years, some experience an involution when it comes to their own conscience and so they are able commit many bad things without caring the other may suffer.

The great Accuser, the human conscience, keeps you on the path that was laid down for you, some call it destiny, it's that inner voice ( don't misunderstand it with the other voice created by all your thoughts ) that appears when you do something against your true nature.

The problem appears when you let yourself totally and fully overwhelmed by its accusations and so you find yourself in a vicious cycle of repeating the same mistakes over and over again, every time, feeling even more accused, ultimately leading to a state of torture.

Satan is called the great Accuser, but your conscience it's not Satan, it only bears its DNA, so to say, of being in this material world, which according to the Bible, is a lower realm, below the higher realms, called heavens.

How I find peace in this situation? The power to understand that I am not the slave of my mind, but the ruler of it, and so I freed myself from all my addictions, from depression, from anxiety and I am planning to achieve even more, when I have a thought, I observe it very wisely, I am aware of it and I do not let it just take over me. I give you an example, someone close says many bad words against you, normally, you will get sad, but if you are able to observe how your mind is going to react to this situation, you can control it, so no more sadness, you can even understand that this close person is not fully aware of her/his action, and so, you can forgive him/her easily.

Sin is born out of ignorance, in the same way, all the suffering caused by humanity is born out of ignorance... "Forgive them Father because they not know what they do....", Jesus was quite aware of their ignorance and He had the power to forgive them even when nailed to the cross.

[theophilus]

Originally Posted by Honza

My only concern is that Jesus did not ADMIT that he is guilty too. He implied that He is perfect.

He didn't just imply that he was perfectly. He plainly said it. Jesus was God as well as man. God cannot sin so Jesus could not sin. He demonstrated this fact when Satan tempted him after he was baptized.

If Jesus had sinned he could not have accomplished the purpose for which he came to earth. He came to die as a sacrifice for ours sins so we could receive eternal life rather than being condemned to eternal punishment in Hell. Hebrews 10:12-14 says, "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Because he did this, anyone who repents of his sin and puts his faith in Jesus can be forgiven.

[Honza]

Is guilt something which God just is not? Is not God all things?

The Hindus and the New Age claim I AM God; I am perfect. So they are implying that they are not guilty whatsoever. Using the logic that God is perfect and therefore so are they.

However; I guess there is a difference between Hindus and New Agers and God Almighty.

Originally Posted by Honza

As far as I know Christianity is the only religion which accepts that its subjects are guilty. The premise of guilt - confession - forgiveness - and redemption is exclusive to Christianity.

Christians by nature accept that they are guilty. They offer remorse and penitence to God and hope that God forgives them.

I fall into this camp. I can feel my guilt or imperfection in my bones.

I find the idea that "everything is as it should be" ludicrous. Was the holocaust "everything as it should be"? Is that what murder is too? People will say it is simple cause and effect - but to me it is far too serious to be explained by natural law.

To me I am guilty of sin. Most Christians accept the same premise. My only concern is that Jesus did not ADMIT that he is guilty too. He implied that He is perfect. That is my niggle with Jesus; He is too clean in many ways.

Does Jesus repent? Does Jesus confess? Perhaps not. This is why I still seek a higher power. God really ought to know that He is imperfect or guilty. He ought to know that He sins.

Christ did not seem to know this and therefore the whole cycle is repeated.

"I can feel my guilt or imperfection in my bones."

To me, guilt and imperfection are very different concepts. You seem to be equating them here..?

[singlemalt]

I find the idea that "everything is as it should be" ludicrous. Was the holocaust "everything as it should be"? Is that what murder is too? People will say it is simple cause and effect - but to me it is far too serious to be explained by natural law.

I also find this ludicrous. We are responsible for our actions, both good and bad. This is where Guilt comes in-- when we do something we know is wrong, and the only way I know to lessen that guilt is to make amends if possible.

I believe the Abrahamic religions merge guilt, shame and sin into one pot, and this isn't a healthy or useful concept.

[Morpheus]

This is why I brought up our organic nature, regarding inherited sin.

Originally, we are more and other than this organic.
Which, by itself, causes our emnity with God.

You should know that Jesus came to reconcile you with Him.
As long prophesied that He would.
"Those that the Son sets free, are free indeed."
Allow Him to do it, by the sacrifice He made for you.

Originally Posted by singlemalt

I find the idea that "everything is as it should be" ludicrous. Was the holocaust "everything as it should be"? Is that what murder is too? People will say it is simple cause and effect - but to me it is far too serious to be explained by natural law.

I also find this ludicrous. We are responsible for our actions, both good and bad. This is where Guilt comes in-- when we do something we know is wrong, and the only way I know to lessen that guilt is to make amends if possible.

I believe the Abrahamic religions merge guilt, shame and sin into one pot, and this isn't a healthy or useful concept.

Hmmm.... how about if "everything is as it needs to be", could you accept that?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by singlemalt

I find the idea that "everything is as it should be" ludicrous. Was the holocaust "everything as it should be"? Is that what murder is too? People will say it is simple cause and effect - but to me it is far too serious to be explained by natural law.

I also find this ludicrous. We are responsible for our actions, both good and bad. This is where Guilt comes in-- when we do something we know is wrong, and the only way I know to lessen that guilt is to make amends if possible.

I believe the Abrahamic religions merge guilt, shame and sin into one pot, and this isn't a healthy or useful concept.

You're vehement ... So, what do you suggest?