An Auspicious Day

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Now I know why I don't read Dogen lol. Thx for help!

Some do find His Teachings hard to penetrate and understand , His use of words seem to force the reader instantly into the world of multiple perspectives. I presume that's why He emphasises a "soft and flexible mind" a rigid mind would not be capable of seeing various perspectives, He obviously understood Mental Ridgitity probably via His Students, hence the use of Koans. One of many amazing Teachers..... imo.

[Maisy]

I'm talking about one teaching or idea that was posted. Most of "his teachings" are not even "his" as they existed a thousand years before he was born. He just repeated them. I don't think dropping the mind and ending up with a flexible mind is a Buddhist teaching though a few "Buddhist's" may have gone that direction. In Chinese and Japanese the same character xin (shin) can be translated as ‘mind’ or ‘heart’ depending on context. The ancient Chinese believed the heart was the center of human cognition or beingness and mind referred to the brains intellect. Being-ness, one aware and understanding eh...the self. Human cognition is interesting to me. Well plus apparently it was not his teaching. In his diary, Dogen said the phrase came from Tendo Nyojō. Dogen could have misunderstood his teacher. Or it got mistranslated sometime who knows.

"to drop the body and the mind leads to the attainment of this flexible mind." That makes zero sense to me.

"to drop the body and the mind leads to the attainment of this flexible self."

Self makes sense to me. Saying dropping the mind leads to a flexible mind is nonsensical to me. Like saying dropping the ego leads to a flexible ego. Dropping means to get rid of the thing. Not to change the thing and have it still be there in some improved form.

But people can be pretty inflexible and rigid in their beliefs. So if one believes one can drop the mind and end up with a better and improved mind that way, and that is somehow Buddhism, I doubt that belief will ever change. They would have to drop mind in it's entirety to lose such a rigid inflexible belief.

It's interesting to believe a flexible mind theory is somehow compatible with the Buddhist teaching of no-mind or the dropping of the mind. But I think we are not flexible about such beliefs. That's why I said I don't believe any mind is flexible. One who believes they have a flexible mind is certainly not flexible about that belief. Which means their mind is not flexible at all. I think all subjective beliefs are dropped in no-mind. But then I think one aspect of conscious awareness is understanding. Understanding I think pre-dates it's expression through language. So even though mind is dropped, the self remains, and the self knows and understands. It would have to! The self understands the benefits of dropping mind. Mind is not a conscious entity. It has no self awareness. We are aware of mind, it is not consciously aware of us. It's aware of us as a machine is programmed to be. When mind is dropped, we remain.

[Maisy]

The internet says Dogen did not like the use of Koans. Might have been not flexible about this.

"Dōgen was sometimes critical of the Rinzai school for their formulaic and intellectual koan practice as well as for their disregard for the sutras." Wiki Dogen

Seems like Dogen did not like the use of Koans and preferred formal sitting and formal study of the Sutras. Seems like he was not really flexible in this as he left his Buddhist school in Japan for one in China as he did not like the Koan practices in Japan I assume. He liked formal sitting in silence and not thinking about Koans I guess.

"Dogen did not use koans. Dogen brought the Soto Zen tradition he learned in China back to his native Japan. He claimed to have awakened in silent sitting practice in China. Soto Zen does not practice koans. Rather, we sit in silent meditation as the Buddha did." Q

Dogen says, “Let it go and just look,” he’s encouraging his students to let go of mu (Koan) and practice shikantaza. From Dogen’s Extensive Record

Descriptions of shikantaza zazen typically include the very basics: Sit upright and stably in the lotus or Burmese postures or, if needed, with a bench or chair. Breathe deeply, but naturally. Follow the breath or sit in open awareness, letting thoughts go without becoming tangled in thought.