Is all this necessary?

Originally Posted by Dragonfly1

Going with the flow....not wanting.......ive read these words a few times in this thread.....all written on a computer......was that computer a want or a need?.....and was it going with the flow when purchasing that computer and was it want or need when the internet service was purchased to communicate via the net?......why not just exist without any luxury...anything that isn't just basic form of shelter, or basic food, is a luxury.......so either you are just going to go with the flow, and not have anything electronic...hell electricity for that matter.......a car a supermarket to buy your food.....if you don't have a job, then don't rely on the government for a cash hand out.....grow your own food.....light a fire to cook it......and keep warm the best you can....because a bed is a want too, isn't it?.......everything we have has been a want at some stage......its natural to want stuff......even if you pretend you don't want to live with luxury.....take a look around you, .....do you live in a house, do you have furnishings, clothing...electric kettles, frying pans.....fans, aircons, digital tv's, telephones, mobile phones........the list goes on........photo frames? pictures on the walls? ornaments....all totally unnecessary, but we have them because we want them......how about art products, paints, canvas, pencils paint brushes etc etc etc..... any specific colour, or particular type of clothing.......not necessary but a 'want'......we all do it.......no one is excempt on this forum.....otherwise you wouldn't be on here writing on your computer using your internet......its because you want to....not because you need to........so basically to me, anyone that says they don't want any more stuff as life goes on, are big fat fibbers..........there are very few in my view that don't want more stuff, even if they have plenty already......

Of course it's natural to want stuff. I was making the distinction between NEED and want. I was using the word need in its most minimal, survival sense and I guess the word now spills over into want with how we use that word. I acknowledge that it is no longer clear cut....a subjective issue that is pointless pursuing. One person's need is another person's want etc.

Originally Posted by Neville

I hear you Juanita.

I was wondering though, If desire is an extension of , a branch of need.

Neville, ummm....that bears some thought, but I don't think so.....You may "desire" many things---a new house, but shelter is what you "need"; a new car, but transportation is your need, etc.etc.....desire is "wanting" more than it is needing, but then you certainly desire to be housed and fed, etc....so perhaps it's just a matter of semantics or your definition of desire.......

Originally Posted by Dragonfly1

Going with the flow....not wanting.......ive read these words a few times in this thread.....all written on a computer......was that computer a want or a need?.....and was it going with the flow when purchasing that computer and was it want or need when the internet service was purchased to communicate via the net?......why not just exist without any luxury...anything that isn't just basic form of shelter, or basic food, is a luxury.......so either you are just going to go with the flow, and not have anything electronic...hell electricity for that matter.......a car a supermarket to buy your food.....if you don't have a job, then don't rely on the government for a cash hand out.....grow your own food.....light a fire to cook it......and keep warm the best you can....because a bed is a want too, isn't it?.......everything we have has been a want at some stage......its natural to want stuff......even if you pretend you don't want to live with luxury.....take a look around you, .....do you live in a house, do you have furnishings, clothing...electric kettles, frying pans.....fans, aircons, digital tv's, telephones, mobile phones........the list goes on........photo frames? pictures on the walls? ornaments....all totally unnecessary, but we have them because we want them......how about art products, paints, canvas, pencils paint brushes etc etc etc..... any specific colour, or particular type of clothing.......not necessary but a 'want'......we all do it.......no one is excempt on this forum.....otherwise you wouldn't be on here writing on your computer using your internet......its because you want to....not because you need to........so basically to me, anyone that says they don't want any more stuff as life goes on, are big fat fibbers..........there are very few in my view that don't want more stuff, even if they have plenty already......

Ummmm, who said they didn't want more stuff????? does a painter want or need a canvas, brush and paints? do you want or need a pot to cook in??
Is a computer a want or a need for those who rely on it for business or for keeping in contact with the outside world? does a person want or need a coat in zero degrees???? I certainly agree that we all want stuff, but that some of that stuff is a need also.....

Originally Posted by Gem

Brilliant OP.

I keep thinking of that movie Samsara. "Is it better to overcome a thousand desires or satisfy just one?"

In the tradition I was in, at the ashram, desire is a tricky business. People know that desire is there and are taught it is suffering. I don't disagree with that, but I noticed that the devotees have a huge desire to overcome desire. They crave nirvana.

I didn't really go in for the doctrine as such, I just thought it was Eastern philosophy.

My beleif is that desire is there and there's nothing to be done. If someone wants something then thay can't not want it... just coz they want to, see the catch? One can not choose to not want... see the contradiction there?

wanting is normal, but getting is something else.....you can want something, knowing full well that you cannot get it.....so where does that leave us????

[Nameless]

If the belief changes to knowing that you can have anything you want, then you have to stop and think if what you want is REALLY something that you want, or do you want it just because you don't have it?

There's a wise saying..."be careful what you ask for because you might get it..."

How perceptive are we in knowing the implications of what can be ours? Sometimes our vision can be too simplistic and not take into account possible repercussions that may come with that which is so desired.

A good example is a lottery winner - initially all good but often turning sour or to disappointment along the line.
Lottery winners are indeed briefed about the psychological impact of what winning entails.

I don't think the wants ever go away or we would get bored! lol

[Mr Interesting]

The wants do go away.

My wants went away the year before last but this was after many years of actually being able to get what I wanted and finding that the thing itself was basically useless but the connections created with other humans were what made things enjoyable.

But by the same token this was after many years of actually making my own stuff. Building my own small house out of stuff I'd find or buy close by and then finding out the upper story was too small and the roof leaked so I had to find more stuff to rebuild it. Fixing my little car myself, making my own clothes and furniture and selling both here and there to get the raw materials to make more stuff. Buying stuff very cheap and having it keep going basically on luck and good intentions... then fixing it if it broke.

Over the years it's been a gradual process of defining what world I want to live in then making that world and along the way learning all about what it actually takes to bring stuff into being and how much of ourselves and our desires we bring into that. It gets to a point where we see that the desire fulfilled quickly, lets say by buying, is somewhat unfulfilling, but when building ones own, we tend to see better the results of our actions, the price we pay and this then leads to a deeper and more refined perspective of what we want next. We also realise that within the doing we meet a deeper and more refined us that starts to see the real value of things and that might be more to do with our interaction with things coming into being than it is about a finished need fulfilled.

So at this point I don't actually want anything, have any desires or ambitions that I want fulfilled but I still have plenty of work to do. I have all around me old ambitions as yet not done and so the last few days I've finally gotten underway in attending to these requirements. That means a pick and shovel and digging dirt. Landscaping a whole section of property that has become overgrown and covered in weeds.

It's not that I want or desire to do all this. It just needs to be done. So I go with it in small increments and feel out what the grounds and the spaces have to say and being in the moment with that doing. Not thinking out great schemes of this and then that but seeing a line required and following it.

It may take me two or three years to fulfill this requirement, this old dream I took on a decade ago but it feels like it's the last thing... a purpose fulfilled.