Did we create ourselves

Originally Posted by Enlightener

Yeah, I go along the same theory that we are creating ourselves and our reality in the moment, with both long and short term effects. We are a miniaturized version of the 'Big Creator', that which I call Life, or God.

Yes, we are all of the same essence. Everything is of the same essence. When they went to the moon they found the same stuff in the rocks there that they find in trees here, and everyone is functioning from a base of quarks, atoms and all that little stuff that makes up our known universe.

The other theory fits too; the two opposing truths bring a higher, newer truth. We are all unique, and yet we are all the same essence, we are all, literally, one thing.

OK thanks.

3dnow

We were all made at the same moment.

3D - Either something made itself or something has always managed to survive the cataclysm of a universe destroying itself to create itself again.

AS in regards to the "god as all is" as you put it....

Thats really difficult to explain in short (historicaly as you asked). Ill do my best

Pagan traditions ( being anything that isnt monothesim (islan, judeism, christianity/catholic)) understood that everything sort of had its place. Everything was personified as a "god". It was spread out more,and people had a different veiw. For instance. IF I lived in a desert region, my gods would be sun and water gods. IF i Lived in a forest region, it would consist of plant and animal gods. The thing is, although they were all different, they still all had the same sort of outlook on how things worked ( you give the gods, the gods give you. Gods get mad when you dont give properly.) Basicaly, you respect nature, nature would respect you back.

Then you start with egyptians, and the pharoah "anak naten" ( that isnt how you slepp it but ,.. ya LOL) who changed from a bunch of gods, to the sun god ( which very quickly after his death was revoked, and anything that had to do with it was scoured from egytpians history (even physicaly scratched off the temples)), i dont know whether or not if the jewish people were aware of this ( yes there wouldve been jewish slaves in egypt, but no tthe multitude that they think. The egyptian PEOPLE built the monuments, not slaved), but after thousands of years of oppression by the babylonians and assyrians, they decided that they werent appeasing the gods, so they dicided to go against all religions at the time. They were oppressed so everything they did was contrary to the common religions.

After the Jewish people left babylonia ( funny, jacob was a babylonian at one point, after leaving isreal), the original jewish texts were done.

Then came rome.

Rome was the babylonians all over again. Except the romans occupied their land, more so, and had all the babylonians land, then some.

I get a bit lost at this point myself. I jsut only recently got back into the NT an gnostics. SImply, the original jewish tradition evovled due to trade and connections with other traditions, and became a bit more, i dare say "mystic like". The romans seen it was causing too much trouble between them and people, and between their wn religions, that they merged some pagan traditions, many early christian books, and changed them. ***

*** When you read the gnostics and the like, they differ FAR from the books taken for the NT. There are some correlation between them, but even the gnostic books dont always agree with eachother..... So what happened?

Rome called together all the leaders of the new chriatian religion ( if you can call it that back then), reach unanimus decisions as to the general back bone of the book, the flow of the story and how the books fit in with each other, and thent he resdt were concidered blasphomy.

Then there was another council (of constantinople), which more or less, created wht we see as the bible.

Keep in mind, the chruch held ALL biblical documents before it was prtnted. They had the reasons, the time and ways to do it....

Now, monotheism, unlike polytheism ( pgan traditions), only reflects ONE god responsible for everything. This makes alot of things loose their divinity liek plants, animals and even other people ( the jewish pepole were the chosen ones, everyone else wasnt) because we loose the godliness in them.

When rome ( who always used fear as a means of holding peoples to religion, yes this is historicaly backed and accepted, look it up) decided to adopt christianity, god became " i own you all", so that the people will submit (remember most romans would still have the pagan "respect the gods or face the conesquenses" attitude.) And if the person running the country told you thats what was supposed to happen, well.... Here we are.

Originally Posted by Time

3D - Either something made itself or something has always managed to survive the cataclysm of a universe destroying itself to create itself again.

AS in regards to the "god as all is" as you put it....

Thats really difficult to explain in short (historicaly as you asked). Ill do my best

Pagan traditions ( being anything that isnt monothesim (islan, judeism, christianity/catholic)) understood that everything sort of had its place. Everything was personified as a "god". It was spread out more,and people had a different veiw. For instance. IF I lived in a desert region, my gods would be sun and water gods. IF i Lived in a forest region, it would consist of plant and animal gods. The thing is, although they were all different, they still all had the same sort of outlook on how things worked ( you give the gods, the gods give you. Gods get mad when you dont give properly.) Basicaly, you respect nature, nature would respect you back.

Then you start with egyptians, and the pharoah "anak naten" ( that isnt how you slepp it but ,.. ya LOL) who changed from a bunch of gods, to the sun god ( which very quickly after his death was revoked, and anything that had to do with it was scoured from egytpians history (even physicaly scratched off the temples)), i dont know whether or not if the jewish people were aware of this ( yes there wouldve been jewish slaves in egypt, but no tthe multitude that they think. The egyptian PEOPLE built the monuments, not slaved), but after thousands of years of oppression by the babylonians and assyrians, they decided that they werent appeasing the gods, so they dicided to go against all religions at the time. They were oppressed so everything they did was contrary to the common religions.

After the Jewish people left babylonia ( funny, jacob was a babylonian at one point, after leaving isreal), the original jewish texts were done.

Then came rome.

Rome was the babylonians all over again. Except the romans occupied their land, more so, and had all the babylonians land, then some.

I get a bit lost at this point myself. I jsut only recently got back into the NT an gnostics. SImply, the original jewish tradition evovled due to trade and connections with other traditions, and became a bit more, i dare say "mystic like". The romans seen it was causing too much trouble between them and people, and between their wn religions, that they merged some pagan traditions, many early christian books, and changed them. ***

*** When you read the gnostics and the like, they differ FAR from the books taken for the NT. There are some correlation between them, but even the gnostic books dont always agree with eachother..... So what happened?

Rome called together all the leaders of the new chriatian religion ( if you can call it that back then), reach unanimus decisions as to the general back bone of the book, the flow of the story and how the books fit in with each other, and thent he resdt were concidered blasphomy.

Then there was another council (of constantinople), which more or less, created wht we see as the bible.

Keep in mind, the chruch held ALL biblical documents before it was prtnted. They had the reasons, the time and ways to do it....

Now, monotheism, unlike polytheism ( pgan traditions), only reflects ONE god responsible for everything. This makes alot of things loose their divinity liek plants, animals and even other people ( the jewish pepole were the chosen ones, everyone else wasnt) because we loose the godliness in them.

When rome ( who always used fear as a means of holding peoples to religion, yes this is historicaly backed and accepted, look it up) decided to adopt christianity, god became " i own you all", so that the people will submit (remember most romans would still have the pagan "respect the gods or face the conesquenses" attitude.) And if the person running the country told you thats what was supposed to happen, well.... Here we are.

Thank you very much Time.

Maybe the sun planets etc created themselves? I heard they are living organisms. They call this the Gaia hypothesis.

Also with this theory I realized that I have much more respect toward other beings.

3dnow

Well they are quite similar. Planets have different aspects that work in unison to make it work (it plate technonics, volcanic actiity, and ecosystems working together like the bodies systems). The universe isnt much different, as things seem to be working idependently, as well as together.

For instance, the earth could be concidered to be a small tiny spekc of the solarsystem (atom), while the galaxy can be though of as a cell, and so fourth.

This doenst mean its alive like anything we can really comprehend. I think in terms of the universe, it has no more controll over itself then we do our own bodies (as above so below right:P).

And yes, the suns and what not, did technicaly create themselves, but only after the big bang happened. Like, a natural system works tirelesly to repair itself if its damaged, or destroyed. And to an untrained eye, it seems life comes ut of nothing. But if thers one great truth, that science hasshown, ts that life, is created from death. You cannot have life in this universe without death.

So the only way things can keep creating themselves is by death. Ancient covs udnerstood this. They gave back to the earth wirh sacrifices, because they understood that their bodies break down. ITs a simple realization. Bry a dad animal, and within a month, there will be life present there (worms, decomposers, plant life etc). Hence why sacrifice appeased the gods: You gave life, by death, so that life can continue.

Originally Posted by Time

Well they are quite similar. Planets have different aspects that work in unison to make it work (it plate technonics, volcanic actiity, and ecosystems working together like the bodies systems). The universe isnt much different, as things seem to be working idependently, as well as together.

For instance, the earth could be concidered to be a small tiny spekc of the solarsystem (atom), while the galaxy can be though of as a cell, and so fourth.

This doenst mean its alive like anything we can really comprehend. I think in terms of the universe, it has no more controll over itself then we do our own bodies (as above so below right:P).

And yes, the suns and what not, did technicaly create themselves, but only after the big bang happened. Like, a natural system works tirelesly to repair itself if its damaged, or destroyed. And to an untrained eye, it seems life comes ut of nothing. But if thers one great truth, that science hasshown, ts that life, is created from death. You cannot have life in this universe without death.

So the only way things can keep creating themselves is by death. Ancient covs udnerstood this. They gave back to the earth wirh sacrifices, because they understood that their bodies break down. ITs a simple realization. Bry a dad animal, and within a month, there will be life present there (worms, decomposers, plant life etc). Hence why sacrifice appeased the gods: You gave life, by death, so that life can continue.

Yes from a swirl of Dust, a planet is born.. (after big bang, if any) but this doesn't explain the internal structure of the planet like a living body etc. It is intelligent. I am sure Earth has a soul, which also created itself.

Today I felt so good but somewhat alone (believing that I created myself). Years of conditioning.

3dnow

intellegent mabey, if it is it isnt in any human kind of way.