Taking the Middle Path

[CSEe]

In my current mind , Buddhism is never a beliefs , not any form of faith but it is a natural process .......from nothingness to somethingness and from somethingness naturally back into nothingness ... this process is Buddhism . So regardless rock , sun , moon , water , virus , tree , Coca-Cola can , all existent , regardless living or non-living is all in this naturally process ........so all is Buddhist ....the only one that not in this process and no longer travel in this process is Buddha .

Only Buddha ( The nothingness ) is not a Buddhist as Buddha is nothingness that no longer travel in Buddhism.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I can relate to what your sharing in the last paragraph. The balance as I have learned doesn't require one to be on either extreme in feeling. Whether it be extreme love in feeling or extreme pain in feeling, if one hasn't cultivated that early stability to bring itself back to the balance, then it is hard to navigate as a more stable awareness in feeling, this is so true as I have learned. The highs as I had in the past in process often hit me down to a real low point to find the balance between over and over. I have noticed over time, my shifts of balance in this way are less noticeable in the openings, meaning I don't have to go to extremes to know any feeling more complete now. It is just there, and I move, I feel, I respond as the balance. It has taken a long conscious effort to witness this shift and turnaround to this now in me, but it certainly supports me to move as an integrated way of being, in this way of balance.

The way I say it is, balance is not dependent on experience, so it might hurt or feel good, but because it's just passing and changing, and can't possibly be held still ormade to move there is no use to cling, avoid, pursue or resist. What these four represent is the personal reactivity - which is the same as losing balance. From what you say I deduce you feel to a subtle level and would know the sensitivity or the fine nuance of it, and any person recognises how extreme experiences upset the calm stability of their minds. This is how we become traumatised. Hard strong reaction to some horrible event such torture, war, severe abuse or prolonged tormenr puts mind off balance - and then one can't face and come to terms with themselves, so cover in shadows of some sort of guilt or shame, for example, never to reveal the truth of it to the light of conscious awareness. Hence, this journey, although promoted as some reward ending in heavenly nirvana, really comes down to resolving all these things which in Pali is refered to a 'sankaras'. Reaction produces sankara which piles up as what we might call 'pain body', as Tolle terms it.

Firstly, a person has their pain, but kinda purposely distracts themselves from it because it's too unpleasant, and this means every time it shows a little, they react adversely, and then, with desire, persue after something to take their mind off it. For example, many young people cut themselves, and I can only assume the sensation of their self infliction is a distraction from some worse kind of pain. Otherwise, a person hits the bottle hard to 'drown their sorrows'. These example are just to illustrate, but basically people end up in a state of perpetual avoidance from this and distraction to that.

The balance is the cessation of the reaction. In Buddhism they talk about the cessation of volition to stop producing new karma - but this volition is like something moving through time - I will - move into the future. It's like a trick in thought, because although there might be physical time in the universe (but I don't think there is), there isn't any time for the mind. It's just reproducing itself because it's still clinging to what is already past and chasing as distraction something in the future. The reaction isn't really these two things, past and future. It is the one movement from what was to what is wanted. The mind, then, is never 'here', and that movement is perceived as 'volition'... (which I should elaborate much more on, but short post is read post.)

Balance then is the cessation of that movement. The end of reaction. At first, maybe a person might try it and sit still in straight posture and begin to notice how reaction starts up when some slight discomfort arises. Maybe ther's an itch and the mind is leaping 'oh it's so unbearable' like that. In reality it's very minor and it won't even last five minutes, but why is that minor itch soooooooo distracting? Yup, reacting. The cessation is like, here is an itch, it feels like 'this' and that's how it is. No reaction. It just comes, changes, and goes away again. In this way, balance is allowance - but different. It's not like 'I allow this to be'. It is like, 'this awareness of the truth of the experience as it is now'. That mind is the one that lets the trauma of pain body, or sankara, come into conscious awareness with out avoiding etc., and much like the itch, it changes, and it passes and then it goes away. What this means is, you're not generating new pain in yourself through reactivity, and the old stuff is all burning off, obstacles dissolving, impurity getting washed away, traumas resolving - and then the love or light can enter those newly vacated spaces in the life-form.

[Serrao]

Originally Posted by CSEe

In my current mind , Buddhism is never a beliefs , not any form of faith but it is a natural process .......from nothingness to somethingness and from somethingness naturally back into nothingness ... this process is Buddhism . So regardless rock , sun , moon , water , virus , tree , Coca-Cola can , all existent , regardless living or non-living is all in this naturally process ........so all is Buddhist ....the only one that not in this process and no longer travel in this process is Buddha .

Only Buddha ( The nothingness ) is not a Buddhist as Buddha is nothingness that no longer travel in Buddhism.

Can a true Buddha have likes and dislikes?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

The way I say it is, balance is not dependent on experience, so it might hurt or feel good, but because it's just passing and changing, and can't possibly be held still ormade to move there is no use to cling, avoid, pursue or resist. What these four represent is the personal reactivity - which is the same as losing balance. From what you say I deduce you feel to a subtle level and would know the sensitivity or the fine nuance of it, and any person recognises how extreme experiences upset the calm stability of their minds. This is how we become traumatised. Hard strong reaction to some horrible event such torture, war, severe abuse or prolonged tormenr puts mind off balance - and then one can't face and come to terms with themselves, so cover in shadows of some sort of guilt or shame, for example, never to reveal the truth of it to the light of conscious awareness. Hence, this journey, although promoted as some reward ending in heavenly nirvana, really comes down to resolving all these things which in Pali is refered to a 'sankaras'. Reaction produces sankara which piles up as what we might call 'pain body', as Tolle terms it.

Yes I can relate to everything your sharing in this. Fear had me caught in the four things you mentioned. So naturally I was in reactivity for most of my life. I was taking care of a pain body more than a body without one. So the loss of balance in me was extreme and required extreme measure to build it again without all that and with a willingness to be open in balance to life as it is the second time around. Your correct about how I feel to the subtle level and know the sensitivity or fine nuance. For me all those things you mentioned in trauma become my trauma. So even as I might not experience the living experience of them, the fear of feeling what they felt like in me as another's experience, shattered me anyway, first with fear to feel, then with willingness to face and feel openly to build balance in this way. In some ways its like coming full circle with fear, being open again to feel more directly but then hold the balance within to know I can let go and centre in myself in balance more easily. Most of my physical body right now is healing from fight and flight responses all my life. Fast metabolism functioning and all that jazz. The fallout of the fall basically.

Firstly, a person has their pain, but kinda purposely distracts themselves from it because it's too unpleasant, and this means every time it shows a little, they react adversely, and then, with desire, persue after something to take their mind off it. For example, many young people cut themselves, and I can only assume the sensation of their self infliction is a distraction from some worse kind of pain. Otherwise, a person hits the bottle hard to 'drown their sorrows'. These example are just to illustrate, but basically people end up in a state of perpetual avoidance from this and distraction to that.

Yes. This is a good indication of how it can be. I suppose for me I attached to fear itself. So the fear of feeling fear moved me to just do what I controlled to keep feeling certain things in all that. I controlled the external space to maintain my own self in hiding and avoidance.Of course once the cork was released there was no going back and you face it all. Or you don't. Fear is interesting because with fear you have to let go deep to allow the process to end of itself, which means it floods in in everyway direction to end itself, step by step. If the total immersion came, one would go insane I imagine.

The balance is the cessation of the reaction. In Buddhism they talk about the cessation of volition to stop producing new karma - but this volition is like something moving through time - I will - move into the future. It's like a trick in thought, because although there might be physical time in the universe (but I don't think there is), there isn't any time for the mind. It's just reproducing itself because it's still clinging to what is already past and chasing as distraction something in the future. The reaction isn't really these two things, past and future. It is the one movement from what was to what is wanted. The mind, then, is never 'here', and that movement is perceived as 'volition'... (which I should elaborate much more on, but short post is read post.)

Yes I understand balance is cessation of reaction. I am trying to grasp you time/future referencing but its not quite sinking in. I am almost seeing what you mean because my past was trapped in time and karma views, but now I am not trapped by any views, more aware of myself as staying in balance more in the present moment. Maybe you could explain this some more in another thread? I am interested just need more info to see I think.

Balance then is the cessation of that movement. The end of reaction. At first, maybe a person might try it and sit still in straight posture and begin to notice how reaction starts up when some slight discomfort arises. Maybe ther's an itch and the mind is leaping 'oh it's so unbearable' like that. In reality it's very minor and it won't even last five minutes, but why is that minor itch soooooooo distracting? Yup, reacting. The cessation is like, here is an itch, it feels like 'this' and that's how it is. No reaction. It just comes, changes, and goes away again. In this way, balance is allowance - but different. It's not like 'I allow this to be'. It is like, 'this awareness of the truth of the experience as it is now'. That mind is the one that lets the trauma of pain body, or sankara, come into conscious awareness with out avoiding etc., and much like the itch, it changes, and it passes and then it goes away. What this means is, you're not generating new pain in yourself through reactivity, and the old stuff is all burning off, obstacles dissolving, impurity getting washed away, traumas resolving - and then the love or light can enter those newly vacated spaces in the life-form.

Yes I have moved from the "I allow this to be" meaning walk it all through, which was deeply traumatizing for me over a long period of time, but necessary to the process of my own individuation as I was and was to become...To moving into the "I am aware and allow and know this too will pass". A temporary movement. I believe I have burned up enough in the fear to feel and fear to look at life more directly in myself to be able to let the space be filled more readily with light now in the moment. So any time I revisit, awareness speaks more directly now. "I am no longer trapped in the old system in myself" balance allows me to be more open to flow freely. So I can move out more freely with balance in me showing me this to be.

[Gem]

About the truth. To find out the truth. To be truthful.

When Jesus told Pontius Pilate about coming into the world to bear testament to the truth, Pilate asked, What is truth? Jesus gave no answer.

Am I to sit here and attempt an explanation? If so the very nature of discourse demands I enter into an endless monologue, and by articulating a meaning I might elaborate on all that is not truth and never address what is - but the truth is already present in the honesty of the presentation, the sincerity of the endeavour, the directness of the intent. The statements I make, however, are not true.

As Descartes explained, and Russel elaborated, the truth can be thought of as a direct aquaintence, meaning what I always say, 'the experience as it is'. When we name the experience as 'a chair' 'a backache' 'sadness' and so on, we infer from the direct perception the articulate object, and the more we go into explaining it, the further from the truth of it we become.

I word this simply by saying 'this is the experience as it is'. I then question, how many of us can actually experience the conscious perception 'as it is'? I think most of us have preconceptions and hard knowledge that blurs the 'direct experience', and as such, don't really know what is true in the most direct sense moment by moment.

The world, in effect, is only our conscious perception. Sure there are subtle elements of the psyche and sensation that we aren't conscious of, but that is also manifest in conscious awareness at its more superficial levels. Just as an example, a bad temper is the conscious dimension of something deeper and unconscious. Said soul can't not 'control their temper' because they don't understand, and can't even perceive, its primary roots.

More generally speaking, people suffer but they do not know why because they can not directly perceive the subtle layers where lay its deep roots. To resolve it is like weeding the garden: it's better do go slower and dig up the roots entirely than to quickly chop off the visible surface and have them grow back in a matter of days.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

About the truth. To find out the truth. To be truthful.

When Jesus told Pontius Pilate about coming into the world to bear testament to the truth, Pilate asked, What is truth? Jesus gave no answer.

Am I to sit here and attempt an explanation? If so the very nature of discourse demands I enter into an endless monologue, and by articulating a meaning I might elaborate on all that is not truth and never address what is - but the truth is already present in the honesty of the presentation, the sincerity of the endeavour, the directness of the intent. The statements I make, however, are not true.

As Descartes explained, and Russel elaborated, the truth can be thought of as a direct aquaintence, meaning what I always say, 'the experience as it is'. When we name the experience as 'a chair' 'a backache' 'sadness' and so on, we infer from the direct perception the articulate object, and the more we go into explaining it, the further from the truth of it we become.

I word this simply by saying 'this is the experience as it is'. I then question, how many of us can actually experience the conscious perception 'as it is'? I think most of us have preconceptions and hard knowledge that blurs the 'direct experience', and as such, don't really know what is true in the most direct sense moment by moment.

The world, in effect, is only our conscious perception. Sure there are subtle elements of the psyche and sensation that we aren't conscious of, but that is also manifest in conscious awareness at its more superficial levels. Just as an example, a bad temper is the conscious dimension of something deeper and unconscious. Said soul can't not 'control their temper' because they don't understand, and can't even perceive, its primary roots.

More generally speaking, people suffer but they do not know why because they can not directly perceive the subtle layers where lay its deep roots. To resolve it is like weeding the garden: it's better do go slower and dig up the roots entirely than to quickly chop off the visible surface and have them grow back in a matter of days.

I did this the other day. Moved myself through my no dig garden of weeds and pulled each one out more complete as I could. (I haven't planted anything yet) It was a huge task but I found when I chose conditions more suitable to myself and the ground, it worked out well. The ground was damp, not too wet, the day was warm and sunny, not too hot so that I sizzled and got all heated up and tired. The weeds came away easily, so the whole process didn't take that long. Although the area to be weeded was a 100ft wide frontage and quite deep too, it felt wonderfully productive in the end..

What I also found is that I stayed focused and present with it all. Normally a task that big would overwhelm me, but with all the right conditions in me, including my willingness to get moving, and complete it, it worked out well.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Yes I can relate to everything your sharing in this. Fear had me caught in the four things you mentioned. So naturally I was in reactivity for most of my life. I was taking care of a pain body more than a body without one. So the loss of balance in me was extreme and required extreme measure to build it again without all that and with a willingness to be open in balance to life as it is the second time around. Your correct about how I feel to the subtle level and know the sensitivity or fine nuance. For me all those things you mentioned in trauma become my trauma. So even as I might not experience the living experience of them, the fear of feeling what they felt like in me as another's experience, shattered me anyway, first with fear to feel, then with willingness to face and feel openly to build balance in this way. In some ways its like coming full circle with fear, being open again to feel more directly but then hold the balance within to know I can let go and centre in myself in balance more easily. Most of my physical body right now is healing from fight and flight responses all my life. Fast metabolism functioning and all that jazz. The fallout of the fall basically.

I get the impression that you have found some peace, and because you are 'out of the way' of what's going on, it can move through really quickly. This might manifest in fast metabolism too, and probably change some aspects of diet as well, to eat more often with smaller portions to represent in everyday living the continuum of flow.

Generally speaking, if this stage of life is pain, not for you but generally, and I say this because people mostly only start serious spiritualism because of life's pain (as did Buddha no less), I found sitting in pain was the best way to cultivate balance of mind. As I see it, pain is the opportunity nature provides us to become stronger - precisely in terms of mindful balance...

Yes. This is a good indication of how it can be. I suppose for me I attached to fear itself. So the fear of feeling fear moved me to just do what I controlled to keep feeling certain things in all that. I controlled the external space to maintain my own self in hiding and avoidance.Of course once the cork was released there was no going back and you face it all. Or you don't. Fear is interesting because with fear you have to let go deep to allow the process to end of itself, which means it floods in in everyway direction to end itself, step by step. If the total immersion came, one would go insane I imagine.

Right, it would drive you insane. It's actually healthy to bury things until we develop the stability of balance required to cope with them. Everyone does this as survival and we tend to find the most buried things are childhood things - sometimes an early trauma then sets us up for a whole series of more adult falls. It just means that meditation is the practice of mindful balance which enables the strength required for healing at the most fundamental level - where the whole process of recreating a 'pain body' (as we called it) ceases and the dissolution thereof begins. In the Buddhist lexicon this would be said something like one stops creating new sankaras and the old ones continue to dissolve away. The old finally rise fully to your consciousness and dissolve in the light of awareness. This is also pertinent to my view of listening, as the listener can serve functionally as awareness for the sake of another person who is willing to open up a closed door within themselves. This goes deeper into the concept of sharing where awareness is obviously universal, and once judgement is removed from that psyche... it's ok to be 'as you are'.

Yes I understand balance is cessation of reaction. I am trying to grasp you time/future referencing but its not quite sinking in. I am almost seeing what you mean because my past was trapped in time and karma views, but now I am not trapped by any views, more aware of myself as staying in balance more in the present moment. Maybe you could explain this some more in another thread? I am interested just need more info to see I think.

Yea, I already knew I cut what I was saying about time too short... but probably because it's hard to articulate. Too hard for me right now... hahaha.

Yes I have moved from the "I allow this to be" meaning walk it all through, which was deeply traumatizing for me over a long period of time, but necessary to the process of my own individuation as I was and was to become...To moving into the "I am aware and allow and know this too will pass". A temporary movement. I believe I have burned up enough in the fear to feel and fear to look at life more directly in myself to be able to let the space be filled more readily with light now in the moment. So any time I revisit, awareness speaks more directly now. "I am no longer trapped in the old system in myself" balance allows me to be more open to flow freely. So I can move out more freely with balance in me showing me this to be.

That is truly wonderful... as you are.

[Gem]

I forgot what I was up to, so I'll just pick up in the general area. I must have got to the practice stage, so I can start to say the practice is your life nd it pertains to what is actually the case. Most people talking about meditation will have a sort of experience in mind and some kind of performance which will bring about that experience, but the core of the practice is 'right now' and has nothing to do with wanting to experience anything other than 'this'. It is remarkable how many people don't notice what is going on, and the simple example I use is, do you notice what your fingertips feel like when they hit the keys - the actual momentary sensation which occurs? This isn't alluding to 'something special' as we imagine it, but if you really feel very closely the sensation of the fingertips, there is incredible detail there and this can't reasonably be considered 'ordinary'.

The reason I use this example is one has to be interested in their meditation, otherwise it's just a battle or 'trying to stay focused'. When you watch a great TV show, there is no problem 'staying focused' because it's so interesting you just watch, and there is no effort involved in keeping the attention on it. If we apply this so some sort of practice like breath meditation, the interest in that breathing sensation has to be there,Or else the mind will wander endlessly toward what does interest you. The way it 'becomes interesting' is the same way as the fingertips are interesting if you feel the sensations in minute detail. It is that detail which makes it extraordinary and it is a dull awareness of it which makes it seem 'ordinary'.

I don't want to go into all the methods of practices, and only use breath meditation as an example, but I will just mention that this idea of 'observe breath' is most often taught in such a way that doesn't have detail in mind, because their rationale is keeping focus - not attention to detail. This detail is important because one need a sharp mind to feel it, and therefore, the looking into detail is the sharp mind that sees more deeply into the nature of what is. You will notice how the tiny details change and pass seemingly much, much quicker than the dull general sensation. That dull general one is actually made of the details, though, so the illusion of more permanency is also due to the dull mind. A mind which is acute is aware of the intricacies, so the nature of impermanence is more apparent to it.

When one really looks at it and their mind gets more acute, even finer detail emerges, and one becomes keen to the subtle levels of their senses and world appears incredibly dymamic.

The last thing: Onewill notice how the fine details occupy a tiny space only for a short time, so if the method does not include honing on a very small area, and a fingertip sized area is a good size, then it is improbable that one will feel that very soft nuance of it.

Now that this minutae of detail is established as being quickly passing and tiny spatially, we can extrapolate that the finer and finer one feels,the more and more present the mind becomes with the here and now.

[Gem]

So, rave rave...

The point is to be interested. I merely used as an example the seemingly mundane sensation of the fingertips is actually an endless myriad of detail, and at that most detailed level, it is not mundane. The detail is interesting, and this combination of being curious to see more and the fascinating appearance of what is there means one doesn't have to try to 'stay focused' because, like watching a great movie, the attention is captivated.

In the case of breath, it isn't the focus on breath that counts. It is the sheer enjoyment of being aware of the breathing, and that enjoyment, the actual willingness to be with it, is far more focused than willfulness to 'focus on it'.

This disctintion between willingness and wilfulness implies the aspects of 'allowing' as opposed to 'forcing', and it is this forcing of the attention to remain an object which can be antithetical to meditation practice, but is often taught as meditation. This has to do with the nature of objects. There is no object per-se. There is just a continuum of change, so in fact, there is nothing there which can be focused on because it is coming and going from one moment to the next. This suggests that isn't to focus on an object willfully, but to be willing toward change. The latter is key meaningful transformation.