An Auspicious Day

[sky]

Originally Posted by eezi-ulgen

Words are a puzzle, to me...

I do like Koans though

[Maisy]

I think this is a good way to "picture" no-mind. Imagine some place you are not. Like I'm in my bedroom so I am not on my deck. So imagine what that deck is like without you there. What is the nature of the deck experience when you are not there? That means none of your thoughts, beliefs, or ideas are there. Imagine what that is like. Then apply that to where you are now. Try to experience it "as it is" when you are not there. Be in your space, where you are, but experience it as it is when you are not there. What is the experience of that space when you are not there in anyway? Maybe this little experiment can give one a taste of "no-mind" or being "original mind" or finding one's true nature. Imagine walking into a crowded room and experiencing it as it is or was without you there. You add nothing to what is there except your presence as emptiness and you experience it fully as it is.

"It is the presence of things as they are." Dogen

"What did your face look like before your parents were born?" A Zen Koan.

[BigJohn]

Sounds like remote viewing.......

[sky]

Dogen’s writing on three encounters with Rujing (His Teacher) about “dropping off body and mind”.

Practice (sanzen) is dropping off body and mind. Dropping off body and mind is zazen. This is an elucidation of practice/enlightenment. Through the simplicity and surrender in doing zazen, we surrender body and mind and merge with universal functioning. By being 100% mindful, merging the “I” subject with the activity of the moment, we are also dropping off body and mind.
Dropping off is being freed from the 3 poisons, 5 desires and 6 coverings. Dogen was questioning if the old teachings were still important in Zen. Rujing answered in the affirmative that we must include the old sacred teachings as they are the teachings of the Buddha. Dropping off means to drop off:
The three poisons of attachment, hatred, and ignorance
The 5 desires which come out of attachment to the 5 sense objects.
The 6 coverings which are the 5 hindrances plus ignorance: sensual desire or greed, hatred, sleepiness and dullness, restlessness and distraction, doubt. To drop off ignorance is the essential practice of the buddhas and ancestors.
Sitting itself is the practice of the Buddhas. It is the only method of being free of the 5 desires and the 6 coverings.
Buddhas and Ancestors do not forget or abandon living beings in their zazen; they offer a heart of compassion to all. The zazen of Buddha's and ancestors places primary importance on great compassion and the vow to save all living beings. In doing so, we free ourselves from the three sicknesses: attachment, mistaken views and arrogance.
Affirming the dropping off body and mind of the Buddha's and ancestors is the flexible mind. This is called the mind-seal of the Buddhas and ancestors. "This flexible, pliant mind is a mind that is concentrated but fluid. It doesn’t snag on anything. It doesn’t grab or reject. It meets every phenomena as Buddha. The ancestors have called this fluid mind, like a pearl rolling in a bowl."

“Realizing Genjokoan” pages 81-97.
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[Quote Maisy, " Dogen placed a great deal of importance on the words "cast off body and mind." To cast off the mind is a very different idea from having a "flexible and soft" mind or feeling a mind can help one in some beneficial way. How could he have two opposite ideas? "]

Mybe the above will help you.....

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by sky

A soft and flexible mind is extremely beneficial, imo...

yes but can one even have THAT? I noticed jesus said 'forgive them father, for they know not what they do.'. As I look around me a lot of people seem that way, a lot of people seem to want to BE that way, because there are benefits to that kind of behavior. For many it seems much nicer for them that they are in the dark about who they really are and what their real motivations are, because they couldn't think as highly of themselves if they didn't do that. And couldn't get others to think highly of them either.

And people know stuff like this subconsciously... and people want to be thought of in beneficial ways.... so like i say there is a strong incentive to either hide or lie... to remain in the dark.

my assumption is the 'masters' in the east are in a similar predicament.... i have lots of reasons for believing that but the one that hit me at the very beginning was, this place is a mess. And noone is able to clean it up. Therefore, given the state of the world, absolutely noone understands what is going on and everything anyone says or does, no matter how beautiful their life may seem from the outside, is just a waste of time in terms of dealing with the actual problems that face us as a people. And that includes the masters of the east as much as it includes familiar governmental and and corporate leaders.

yes any of us can say 'i want this' or 'i want that' and can maybe impress others with our ability to get what they want. But that doesn't really change anything in any meaningful way.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Sounds like remote viewing.......

It's called 'Visualisation' in Buddhism....

[sky]

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

yes but can one even have THAT?

Well I can't speak for others but yes I can have that, it's not always easy but the thought of having a rigid mind is enough to spur me into the opposite direction. A rigid me would snap in the wind