Non violence and Forgiveness

[Thinker108]

Non violence is the great tool for giving power to the spirit. Sacred scriptures say spiritual path is not for weak spirits. What is the weakness? Rippling is weakness; excitement is the weakness. If we want to be calm and peaceful, We must be non violent. What is the violence? Hurt other by body, mind and speech is violence. But scope of non violence is very wide. If we push other to follow our thoughts we are violent, if we are not respecting others views we are violent. Forgiveness is a very effective practice for non violence as I think. But it not easy if we can love by our inner heart we can forgive other and can be non violent
I am waiting for views……

Originally Posted by Thinker108

Non violence is the great tool for giving power to the spirit. Sacred scriptures say spiritual path is not for weak spirits. What is the weakness? Rippling is weakness; excitement is the weakness. If we want to be calm and peaceful, We must be non violent. What is the violence? Hurt other by body, mind and speech is violence. But scope of non violence is very wide. If we push other to follow our thoughts we are violent, if we are not respecting others views we are violent. Forgiveness is a very effective practice for non violence as I think. But it not easy if we can love by our inner heart we can forgive other and can be non violent
I am waiting for views……

I'm no sure. There were said to be Zen Masters who beat their students. They had a purpose, but it was still violence. And there are those who suffered from violence who transcended- like Jesus. Violence in some cases may be a great tool as well.

Originally Posted by Thinker108

Non violence is the great tool for giving power to the spirit. Sacred scriptures say spiritual path is not for weak spirits. What is the weakness? Rippling is weakness; excitement is the weakness. If we want to be calm and peaceful, We must be non violent. What is the violence? Hurt other by body, mind and speech is violence. But scope of non violence is very wide. If we push other to follow our thoughts we are violent, if we are not respecting others views we are violent. Forgiveness is a very effective practice for non violence as I think. But it not easy if we can love by our inner heart we can forgive other and can be non violent
I am waiting for views……

This is an issue i now struggle with... what would i do if i was threatened physically... if the ones I love were attacked... what would I do... Gandhi... MLK... have always been heroes of mine... and for many years of my life I counted myself a pacifist... then I was confronted with murder... and the death of people very close to me... home invasion... the killing of our friends and their children... and suddenly I it was REAL... would I kill or be killed... I still struggle with this... but I know... if it came down to it I would take the life of anyone who tried to hurt me or the ones I love and care for... with extreme prejudice... I would hate doing it... but I would not hesitate to do so...

I think the realization that we are all part of creation goes along way with being able to forgive, and be a non-violent person. Until one realizes that we are all part of creation, it is hard to look at someone as an equal, or a bother or sister. Instead, it is easier to look at someone else as "them" which leads to an "us (me) vs. them" mentality, which has lead to a great deal of hatred and bloodshed throughout history.

[Thinker108]

Thanks for all views.
it is very necessary to understand the concept clearly. I think there can be a condition where we are fight for just as duty. But we have not anger and hate for opposition. It is real non violence. If we are not fighting with anti social people, we are coward not non violent.

Nonviolence doesn’t mean that we don’t have the right to defend our self if attacked. It means we don’t instigate an unwarranted attack or aggression, not that we are required to be a passive victim. We have the right to defend our self, loved ones, others who can’t defend themselves, & our property. This defending what is ours isn't materialistic. This is thwarting violence & is completely justified, even if we use very assertive means in which to do so & even if it ends poorly for the perpetrator.

Is it moral for an adult to stand passively by while a pedophile snatches an 8 year old child at the park who will probably be sexually abused & likely murdered when their parents are momentarily distracted when we could intervene, even if our intervening is causing physical harm to the pedophile? There is common sense that applies here. This isn’t even a moral dilemma IMO. The overriding moral action of keeping an innocent child from being kidnapped by a pedophile completely justifies whatever one would have to do to keep this from happening.

It is sometimes thought that we are disrespecting others views, particularly when they are the views of the predominate religion in our region if we have our own separate views. This is not intellectual violence. What is intellectual violence though is dominate religions insisting that their views are the truth & absolutist, bullying those who have differing beliefs that they will have dire consequences for having different spiritual beliefs. We have the RIGHT to our beliefs. If others have a conniption fit about it, aghast that anyone said something aloud (or in print) that contradicts their chosen belief, that’s their own issue (of intolerance) to deal w/.

Robust personal strength isn’t violence & weak passiveness isn’t peacefulness. This reminds me of a Dalai Lama quote about having a strong self, ‘You need a strong will to achieve the good. To make a wish that you become able to help all beings throughout space, you need a strong self; with a weak self such an intervention is impossible. This kind of desire is reasonable and is not attachment.’
“How to Expand LOVE”, pg. 108- 109.

Forgiveness is often an idea that is used in a manner that is, sometimes, overly broad. It is often said that we MUST forgive those who have harmed us. This may be useful for some, but not others. What may be more useful for many is simply realizing that the other person has their own learning process. One that is completely independent from us. They will have to deal w/ this at some time. Some may need to use the idea of forgiveness to be able to move on in order to give their self some power in the situation, or to feel they are being consistent w/ their religious or personal values. For others this may feel quite inauthentic. We can appreciate that we can only be harmed by others emotionally to the extent that we allow them to do so, buying into their negative energy. We can cut the emotional ties to their energy, & voluntarily move past this, continuing w/ our own autonomous journey. Quite empowering. Use what works. The point is to move past the emotional pain.

It is important not to use forgiveness to place our self in a superior moral position to the one we're forgiving as we can be fairly well assured that at some point in our journey we have learned the same lesson!!! We are on the same journey a precious few steps apart.