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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

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  #1  
Old 11-07-2011, 05:39 PM
theophilus theophilus is offline
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Creation - What does the Bible actually say?

If you don't read the creation account in the Bible carefully you can form a false idea of what it actually says. It is a widely held belief that the Bible teaches that God created the entire universe in six days. But is this really what it teaches?

The first two chapters of Genesis describe God's work of creation. It can be divided into three parts.

The first verse simply contains a statement that God created the heavens and the earth. It gives no details about the steps involved or how long it took.

Genesis 1:2 to 2:3 gives a detailed description of one part of this creation, the world we live in. It took six days and was followed by a day of rest. All this took place during the creation in the first verse.

Man was created on the sixth day and the rest of chapter two is a detailed description of his creation.

The account of the six days in which our world was created begins with this statement:
Quote:
The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Our planet already existed at the beginning of the first day. It is described as being in darkness and covered by water. The six days do not describe the actual creation of our earth but its transformation from a chaotic condition into one which supports life.

We are not told whether the earth was just created or had existed for some time. It is possible that it had originally been created perfect but its condition at this time was one of the effects of Satan's rebellion. If this was the case then the six days were a restoration of the earth to its former state. The Bible ends with the creation of a new earth to replace on that had been damaged by sin. Perhaps it begins the same way.

The six days only describe what happened on earth and tell us nothing about the rest of the universe. The sun was already in existence on the first day because the earth began receiving light from it then. But we don't know whether the sun was created on the first day or whether it existed before that but there was some barrier which kept its light from reaching the earth.

Genesis 1:14 seems to contradict this.
Quote:
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth.
But if you read it carefully you will find that it doesn't actually say anything about the creation of the sun and the moon. It only says that God placed lights in the sky. This could mean that the sun, moon, and stars could now be clearly seen, not necessarily that they came into existence at this time.

Exodus 20:11 is sometimes cited as proof that the entire universe was included in the six days.
Quote:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
It is thought to be a restatement of Genesis 1:1,
Quote:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
But the word "made" is used instead of "created" in Exodus.

The word heaven has more than one meaning in the Bible. It is used to describe the atmosphere, outer space, and the home of God. Genesis 1:1 apparently includes all three meanings, but verses 6 to 8 use the word only in the first sense.
Quote:
And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
The word earth also has more than one meaning. It can mean the planet we live on or it can mean dry land. In verses 1 and 2 it means the planet. But it has the second meaning in verse 10.
Quote:
God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
It is obviously used in the second sense in Exodus because it speaks of the heaven, the earth, and the sea. If it were speaking of the planet the sea would be included in it and wouldn't need to be mentioned separately.

The verse from Exodus is obviously using the words "heaven" and "earth" as they are used within the account of the six days rather than as they are used in verse one. It says that God made the air, the land, and the seas, and everything in them.

Since the six days involve only the earth and not the rest of the universe the Bible tells us nothing about how old the entire universe is. It is possible that the entire universe was created during the same six day period as the earth, but it is also possible that the work of creation began long before the six days.
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2011, 06:52 PM
Time
Posts: n/a
 
One question.

IF satan rebelled early ( if you believe satan to be the devil), then how are there passages of satan helping god well after creation, after adam and eve, and i think after the flood as well?
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2011, 11:00 AM
sprinter
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
If you don't read the creation account in the Bible carefully you can form a false idea of what it actually says. It is a widely held belief that the Bible teaches that God created the entire universe in six days. But is this really what it teaches?

I believe there is good reason for this to be a widely held belief, the writer of Genesis seems to be going out of their way to expressly convey this very thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
Our planet already existed at the beginning of the first day. It is described as being in darkness and covered by water. The six days do not describe the actual creation of our earth but its transformation from a chaotic condition into one which supports life.

We are not told whether the earth was just created or had existed for some time. It is possible that it had originally been created perfect but its condition at this time was one of the effects of Satan's rebellion. If this was the case then the six days were a restoration of the earth to its former state. The Bible ends with the creation of a new earth to replace on that had been damaged by sin. Perhaps it begins the same way.

The six days only describe what happened on earth and tell us nothing about the rest of the universe. The sun was already in existence on the first day because the earth began receiving light from it then. But we don't know whether the sun was created on the first day or whether it existed before that but there was some barrier which kept its light from reaching the earth.

Genesis 1:14 seems to contradict this.
But if you read it carefully you will find that it doesn't actually say anything about the creation of the sun and the moon. It only says that God placed lights in the sky. This could mean that the sun, moon, and stars could now be clearly seen, not necessarily that they came into existence at this time.


Then we go on a little to Gen 1:16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.
1:17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw it was good.
1:19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

To me, the text indicates plainly what day, theres not even a hint of barrier removal, to see that we would have to add to the text?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
Exodus 20:11 is sometimes cited as proof that the entire universe was included in the six days.
It is thought to be a restatement of Genesis 1:1,
But the word "made" is used instead of "created" in Exodus.


Ok lets take a look at it,
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and the sea, and all that is in them and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Nope, not what I would consider a restatement. Actually it looks much more like a statement, six days. And what a statement, it is contained within the fourth commandment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus
The word heaven has more than one meaning in the Bible. It is used to describe the atmosphere, outer space, and the home of God. Genesis 1:1 apparently includes all three meanings, but verses 6 to 8 use the word only in the first sense.
The word earth also has more than one meaning. It can mean the planet we live on or it can mean dry land. In verses 1 and 2 it means the planet. But it has the second meaning in verse 10.It is obviously used in the second sense in Exodus because it speaks of the heaven, the earth, and the sea. If it were speaking of the planet the sea would be included in it and wouldn't need to be mentioned separately.
The verse from Exodus is obviously using the words "heaven" and "earth" as they are used within the account of the six days rather than as they are used in verse one. It says that God made the air, the land, and the seas, and everything in them.

Since the six days involve only the earth and not the rest of the universe the Bible tells us nothing about how old the entire universe is. It is possible that the entire universe was created during the same six day period as the earth, but it is also possible that the work of creation began long before the six days.

Possible, I suppose a lot of things are but for my money you have to play around with the text a bit, make a few unchartered assumptions here and there to get it to work. And theres always the consideration that readers are warned to be careful bout addin and takin away.
From the post I am assuming you are not comfortable with the straight reading of the Genesis text theophilus. I'm curious, any particular reason?
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:33 PM
theophilus theophilus is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,537
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time
One question.

IF satan rebelled early ( if you believe satan to be the devil), then how are there passages of satan helping god well after creation, after adam and eve, and i think after the flood as well?
Where is there any record of Satan voluntarily helping God? God has sometimes used Satan to carry out his will. For example, when Satan tried to get Job to deny God his efforts ultimately helped Job to know God better. But this merely demonstrates God's sovereignty and his ability to use anyone or anything he chooses to carry out his will.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2011, 02:38 PM
theophilus theophilus is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,537
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprinter
From the post I am assuming you are not comfortable with the straight reading of the Genesis text theophilus. I'm curious, any particular reason?
I am quite comfortable with the straight reading of the text but it is important to read it carefully to make sure you know what the straight reading is.

This post is part of an entry in my blog. You can read a more detailed version of it here:

http://www.christiandoctrinediscussion.com/blogs/theophilus/489-creation-what-does-bible-actually-say.html
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2011, 03:32 PM
Time
Posts: n/a
 
Umm, how about the story of Job? Its not like satan came back from hell to help god, after he rebelled, other wise what would be the point of rebelling?
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  #7  
Old 18-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Seperate_Reality
Posts: n/a
 
The below, is taken from Bible UFO Connection, Creation. I find it interesting and just wanted to share it here.

" In Jeremiah we find clear evidence that this biosphere is not the first complete planetary terraforming project performed on Earth:
Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. 27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. 28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
If this previous creation did not include the strange collection of fauna and flora, which included dinosaurs clearly evidenced in the geological record, our biosphere is at least the third creation. This would account for the existense of and validate the histories of many cultures going back many thousands of years before the accepted creation "timeline", and anomalous archeological finds known as "out of place artifacts".

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. It is not clear whether this refers to the past or present creation, but does provide clarification in either case.

Not The Last Creation

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
This prophecy occurs after the thousand-year period following the return of the Christ. Considering the current polluted and depleted condition of our biosphere and the clear indications that that thousand-year reign will occur on this planet it is only logical that a certain level of biosphere modification must occur after the return of Christ. The devastating prophecies of the Revelation to John will worsen that condition even further to the point that the total annihilation of all life will be imminent."
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