The grand Illusion

[skygazer]

So many of us have come to the conclusion that the world is a hologram and that it is our senses that limit what we see, often, this is misconstrued as ‘nothing is real’, I’ve even read the concept of Maya being interpreted that way, but nothing could be further from truth. This world is real, and so are we.

In the Vedas, Maya is explained as living in illusion. The texts claim our world is very real, but it’s like a house of mirrors, its purpose is to delude us, and because of our limited senses we accept the distorted perceptions as reality; thereby living in continuous illusion.

For the NDE experiencer, there is no doubt that what they have been through is real in every sense of the word, I’m sure it is too. What I wonder is why no one is talking about the possibility that world is equally a house of mirrors; its purpose to delude.

We are conveniently sent back from the other side to tell about how our loved ones are waiting to greet us, to take us to the light. “Go to the light” where all is beautiful and your afterlife is waiting for you. Doesn’t it all seem, dare I say, staged?

Some have actually described how at a certain point the light draws the person to it, leaving them powerless, with no will of their own.

It seems the NDE is just another form of a religious experience, all religions equally represented. Who could be that thoughtful, and most importantly, why?

[Morpheus]

Is it real, gazer? Why?
A real what?

What is Physics today, since Einstein, revealing to us? Dare you say?

Share.

[skygazer]

It's revealing that instead of there being one big bang, the universe is banging everywhere all the time....

that each and every one of us is a black hole; as above so below...

that we are living in a holographic universe...

1783

[CrystalSong]

It's revealing that instead of there being one big bang, the universe is banging everywhere all the time....

that each and every one of us is a black hole; as above so below...

that we are living in a holographic universe...

1783
Works for me.....

[Morpheus]

Well, I think you mean "each of the galaxies, at their center".
They are found to be roughly 15 % the size of the galaxies in which they are resident.

Which are now currently speculated to be, "Wormholes", also.

[wired_osiris]

I personally don't like the "hologram" analogy too much because it discredits the importance of our life on Earth.

We are here for a real reason and a real person.

I'd say think of it more as you are visiting one particular floor of a very tall building and each floor is a little bit different. The higher up you get in the building the more closely you are to the creator and architect of the building but your experience is still real even on the bottom or even underground.

[linen53]

I believe we are here to learn. Earth is an elaborate stage and the play is ongoing. It's when we get home and summarize our experiences and how we handled them that we come full circle, i.e., we have understanding that we did not have before.

Some of us who have awakened spiritually have realized that everyone is playing a part. Sometimes I look at the people around me and time stops as I think of the agreements they all made to forget who they really are so they could come here to learn. And as they go about their everyday business of living and learning in ignorance I am sometimes really overwhelmed by the significance of it all.

[Morpheus]

"The Matrix is a system Neo. When you are inside and look around, what do you see?"

[Astral Explorer]

So many of us have come to the conclusion that the world is a hologram and that it is our senses that limit what we see, often, this is misconstrued as ‘nothing is real’, I’ve even read the concept of Maya being interpreted that way, but nothing could be further from truth. This world is real, and so are we.

In the Vedas, Maya is explained as living in illusion. The texts claim our world is very real, but it’s like a house of mirrors, its purpose is to delude us, and because of our limited senses we accept the distorted perceptions as reality; thereby living in continuous illusion.

For the NDE experiencer, there is no doubt that what they have been through is real in every sense of the word, I’m sure it is too. What I wonder is why no one is talking about the possibility that world is equally a house of mirrors; its purpose to delude.

We are conveniently sent back from the other side to tell about how our loved ones are waiting to greet us, to take us to the light. “Go to the light” where all is beautiful and your afterlife is waiting for you. Doesn’t it all seem, dare I say, staged?

Some have actually described how at a certain point the light draws the person to it, leaving them powerless, with no will of their own.

It seems the NDE is just another form of a religious experience, all religions equally represented. Who could be that thoughtful, and most importantly, why?
I agree most NDE experiences seem like a huge disinformation campaign targeted toward acceptance of the "light" being where you want to go, being where your "Heaven" is, where your loved-ones are, etc. There are so many books out there about the "light-realms" and in so many of them they mention reincarnation and in them you can even sense a feeling of anger and resentment in the people who are reincarnating, or when one of their friends or family have to reincarnate. Yet none of these books or information ever go into what is forcing that person to reincarnate. New-Agers happily just accept their spoon-fed mystery medicine answer of "well they have more work to do" based on the idea that Earth is a sort of necessary spiritual proving grounds where you have to succeed in order to enter the higher-echelon of the spiritual hierarchy. Nearly all of the information out there about this type of stuff is just a carrot on a stick which no one really knows where they are being led, but they happily accept the generic cliché answers that everyone else does it appears. If you've studied Gnosticism deeply then perhaps you have a belief where it leads. An interesting piece of information I found in the Tibetan Bardo is that you definitely do not want to go to the white-light tunnel or toward that light no matter how enticing it may seem, because that indefinitely keeps you inside of the cycle of reincarnation. They suggested looking for a blue light? Personally I am skeptical about that light as well because obviously highly-intelligent Archons who are capable of running this system could easily make another colored light tailored to whatever color you would find more enticing since they know all of your likes and dislikes, fears and desires, strengths and weaknesses.

The truth is even lower-level dark-beings are capable of taking the form and energetic signature of any being they desire and most people if not all would never know the difference. So if dark-beings are capable of doing such things then obviously the masters of this system could take that beyond our comprehension. They are ruthless and will use anything at their disposal to keep you feeding them. From promises and offers of "light", love, warmth, comfort, ecstasy, power, privilege, "Heaven", etc. to threats and guilt-trips of a dark cold Hell, bad karma, the list goes on. They use both the good and bad experiences to their advantage. Under my belief the "light-realms" have been created to give you a longing for them, to feel "like home", to make every fiber of your being want to be there. And the dark-realms they use to make you feel like you have to escape there and anything but there is better. And they seem to use whatever they feel will work best on each individual because they know each of us better than we know ourselves - at least in this life. They know our past-lives, they know everything about our past that we do not in this life. If they feel the carrot on the stick isn't good enough then they scare the heck out of you with dark experiences to make you feel like anything is better than that, that way you accept the light because you just don't want to go back to that darkness. But for others a positive "light" experience is enough to sell them on the idea of Heaven and make them accept it with open-arms (and no questions). In my own experience the millisecond you question any of this it gets ugly, even in the light-realms. I can only imagine what would happen if you start asking outside of the box questions during your "life review" or whatever other brainwashing movie they want you to watch. I'm sure it would instantly turn into threats and/or some sort of sadistic punishment. The problem is nobody ever does because who's going to question "God" or an "Angel" or whatever other god-like figure we have been programmed into worshipping and honoring since childhood.

[skygazer]

I personally don't like the "hologram" analogy too much because it discredits the importance of our life on Earth.

We are here for a real reason and a real person.

I'd say think of it more as you are visiting one particular floor of a very tall building and each floor is a little bit different. The higher up you get in the building the more closely you are to the creator and architect of the building but your experience is still real even on the bottom or even underground.

I understand your symbology of the "architect"...
to me the architect's job would go no further after his drawings are done were not for the sweat and drudge of the common laborer, so the importance of humanity's work while here is very real.

[skygazer]

I believe we are here to learn. Earth is an elaborate stage and the play is ongoing. It's when we get home and summarize our experiences and how we handled them that we come full circle, i.e., we have understanding that we did not have before.

Some of us who have awakened spiritually have realized that everyone is playing a part. Sometimes I look at the people around me and time stops as I think of the agreements they all made to forget who they really are so they could come here to learn. And as they go about their everyday business of living and learning in ignorance I am sometimes really overwhelmed by the significance of it all.

if we came here with our full memories I think there would be a lot of quick exits. :icon_lol:

[skygazer]

"The Matrix is a system Neo. When you are inside and look around, what do you see?"

I see people not ready to be unplugged, Morpheus, and I aim to stay clear of them.

[skygazer]

I agree most NDE experiences seem like a huge disinformation campaign targeted toward acceptance of the "light" being where you want to go, being where your "Heaven" is, where your loved-ones are, etc. There are so many books out there about the "light-realms" and in so many of them they mention reincarnation and in them you can even sense a feeling of anger and resentment in the people who are reincarnating, or when one of their friends or family have to reincarnate. Yet none of these books or information ever go into what is forcing that person to reincarnate.

I think it would be better for truth seekers to actually not have any preconceived notions of what to expect. That would mean no reading or web search. The best teacher is our own OB traveling.


New-Agers happily just accept their spoon-fed mystery medicine answer of "well they have more work to do" based on the idea that Earth is a sort of necessary spiritual proving grounds where you have to succeed in order to enter the higher-echelon of the spiritual hierarchy. Nearly all of the information out there about this type of stuff is just a carrot on a stick which no one really knows where they are being led, but they happily accept the generic cliché answers that everyone else does it appears. If you've studied Gnosticism deeply then perhaps you have a belief where it leads. An interesting piece of information I found in the Tibetan Bardo is that you definitely do not want to go to the white-light tunnel or toward that light no matter how enticing it may seem, because that indefinitely keeps you inside of the cycle of reincarnation.

yes, these days most are too lazy to read the Tibetan texts, that is why new age material is so popular, it appears to give relevant information in a condensed format. Though from my experience even the Tibetan book of living and dying will misinform. I have yet to find 'the truth' in one single place. Possibly, because truth in this sense is a very personal thing. We are all on such different paths, having different genetics and origins.

They suggested looking for a blue light? Personally I am skeptical about that light as well because obviously highly-intelligent Archons who are capable of running this system could easily make another colored light tailored to whatever color you would find more enticing since they know all of your likes and dislikes, fears and desires, strengths and weaknesses.

and skeptical we should be. As you point out, it seems these rulers have at their disposal everything it takes to bedazzle us, and yet, I've come to understand that they fear/respect something in us, what that is I don't know yet. So far what I do hold to is what the Apocalypse of James instructs, "I came from the pre-existant one..."

The truth is even lower-level dark-beings are capable of taking the form and energetic signature of any being they desire and most people if not all would never know the difference. So if dark-beings are capable of doing such things then obviously the masters of this system could take that beyond our comprehension. They are ruthless and will use anything at their disposal to keep you feeding them. From promises and offers of "light", love, warmth, comfort, ecstasy, power, privilege, "Heaven", etc. to threats and guilt-trips of a dark cold Hell, bad karma, the list goes on. They use both the good and bad experiences to their advantage.

This could not be said often enough. And if we remain on the fence, an often used ploy is to tug at our heart strings with promises and full on rational explanations of how our return will be of help to our loved ones left behind. I've heard it all, and fallen for it.
This is why it really is to our best interest not to have children, but alas, I could not resist the programming again, this time around.

Under my belief the "light-realms" have been created to give you a longing for them, to feel "like home", to make every fiber of your being want to be there. And the dark-realms they use to make you feel like you have to escape there and anything but there is better. And they seem to use whatever they feel will work best on each individual because they know each of us better than we know ourselves - at least in this life. They know our past-lives, they know everything about our past that we do not in this life. If they feel the carrot on the stick isn't good enough then they scare the heck out of you with dark experiences to make you feel like anything is better than that, that way you accept the light because you just don't want to go back to that darkness. But for others a positive "light" experience is enough to sell them on the idea of Heaven and make them accept it with open-arms (and no questions). In my own experience the millisecond you question any of this it gets ugly, even in the light-realms. I can only imagine what would happen if you start asking outside of the box questions during your "life review" or whatever other brainwashing movie they want you to watch. I'm sure it would instantly turn into threats and/or some sort of sadistic punishment. The problem is nobody ever does because who's going to question "God" or an "Angel" or whatever other god-like figure we have been programmed into worshipping and honoring since childhood.

well, I don't know how many will question these beings, but I do feel that graduation from this earth is possible, so surely it must have been done by some. Probably, this is the highest of the kept secrets. One clue I have about it is once the ability to not play the duality earth games is present we are indeed close.

I have been to a pre-life revue, that is in this incarnation while still very much alive, accompanied by a guide who spoke for me, I was told I could only speak through him. Based on past personal experience I would put this in the 5d realms. The panel set in front of the entrance to the halls of learning and we stood in front of them. The matter in question was of course some karma they were claiming I hold, unfortunately although I retained the memories of it they are without sound.

Thank you, AE, for the opportunity to participate in a most interesting discussion.

[Tristran]

NDE's can allow people to see what this world is like without YHWH's love and indirectly the NDE, once published, allows angels to tell that mortal more.

So NDE's are useful in letting people see that this world is a major control mechanism by which the elite feed off the fear.

Invisible ethereal spiders that many people have seen springs to mind. These same creatures were portrayed as spiders on Neo's capsule in the first Matrix film.

[Morpheus]

Excellent recognition, Tristan. The Wachowski's did their homework.
My perception is that Ego caused the original fall of Lucifer, with the angels,
and Ego is what we have fallen into. Which involves the predator prey situation, here on the planet, and in time and space.

[Howla Dark]

I had two NDE's none of them had a light or religious icons.

[CrystalSong]

Aye I had an NDE also, was dying from Shigella Dysentery. This was pre-awakening. I ended up in the Grey, The Astral Realms, so didn't make it very far. Spent years freaked out that there was no 'Light" no "Tunnel with a Light of Higher Being' at the end of it.

Post awakening when my Grandma died and I could voluntarily leave the body and voyage, I followed her to make sure she had a good launch and wasn't stuck as a ghost in the Earth Realms as she's died of a stroke and was very mentally confused in the last days. She did go into the Light Realms, I followed her about 20 Dimensions upwards before ending in a pure white out and loosing her signal. I made two attempts and got stuck at the same place both times. There was more after that, her signal continued onwards, but I couldn't get a high enough level of frequency to push farther, even going on my pure love of that wonderful lady.
It really is Worlds Without End out there, on all dimensions. I can't say anything about some Dark Beings selling us an illusion about the Light and Home, having never experienced running into any Beings in higher Dimensions which had ill will in their hearts.
Most Beings I run into don't pay me any mind in fact, maybe a casual glance or recognition at the most before continuing on their way. I've been ignored in some of the most stunning settings in the Multi-Verse :) lol

[Miss Hepburn]

Skygazer...you are BRILLIANT!

But, of course, I say this because you think 99.999% just like ME!:D
:tongue:

Oh boy, would you love the book, "The Disappearance of the Universe"!
Can't wait for you to tell me what you think!
By Gary Renard.
Trust me, if you think something is weird...keep reading, it will
be explained better.
:smile:

[skygazer]

I had two NDE's none of them had a light or religious icons.

that's interesting, HD. thanks for sharing. We don't often hear from those that don't have the experience.

[skygazer]

Skygazer...you are BRILLIANT!

But, of course, I say this because you think 99.999% just like ME!:D
:tongue:

Oh boy, would you love the book, "The Disappearance of the Universe"!
Can't wait for you to tell me what you think!
By Gary Renard.
Trust me, if you think something is weird...keep reading, it will
be explained better.
:smile:

I don't understand, Miss H. I was under the impression we held opposite view points about what to expect after death. :confused:

[Morpheus]

I had two NDE's none of them had a light or religious icons.

And?

Some have had dark, and terrifying experiences. So?
I thought the point of the thread was about what modern physics is confirming today since Einstein. That, the material/organic world in time and space, in which we find ourselves and percieve, is the, "Grand Illusion", compared to... the greater reality and Truth existant.

Sky, if you look... you see that a very common statement is that the Experiencer finds themselves in a situation that is more "real" and vivid than they've ever been in this world.

[skygazer]

i know this, Morpheus...but I am aiming for realer than that.

[wolfgaze]

The truth is even lower-level dark-beings are capable of taking the form and energetic signature of any being they desire and most people if not all would never know the difference. So if dark-beings are capable of doing such things then obviously the masters of this system could take that beyond our comprehension. They are ruthless and will use anything at their disposal to keep you feeding them. From promises and offers of "light", love, warmth, comfort, ecstasy, power, privilege, "Heaven", etc. to threats and guilt-trips of a dark cold Hell, bad karma, the list goes on. They use both the good and bad experiences to their advantage. Under my belief the "light-realms" have been created to give you a longing for them, to feel "like home", to make every fiber of your being want to be there. And the dark-realms they use to make you feel like you have to escape there and anything but there is better. And they seem to use whatever they feel will work best on each individual because they know each of us better than we know ourselves - at least in this life. They know our past-lives, they know everything about our past that we do not in this life. If they feel the carrot on the stick isn't good enough then they scare the heck out of you with dark experiences to make you feel like anything is better than that, that way you accept the light because you just don't want to go back to that darkness. But for others a positive "light" experience is enough to sell them on the idea of Heaven and make them accept it with open-arms (and no questions). In my own experience the millisecond you question any of this it gets ugly, even in the light-realms. I can only imagine what would happen if you start asking outside of the box questions during your "life review" or whatever other brainwashing movie they want you to watch. I'm sure it would instantly turn into threats and/or some sort of sadistic punishment. The problem is nobody ever does because who's going to question "God" or an "Angel" or whatever other god-like figure we have been programmed into worshipping and honoring since childhood.

Okay, so you've painted the following picture:

That your 'afterlife experience' is controlled by lower level dark beings who know everything about you, who can fake any form or energy signature to deceive and manipulate you, and who can create any types of environment/experience for you in the astral realm(s) that they wish to...

You've essentially assigned god-like powers to these lower-level dark beings. They're all knowing, they can shapeshift, give off energy signatures that are not true to their actual nature nor rooted in real emotion, and they can fabricate whatever 'realities' they wish to create for you...

I'll entertain this theory temporarily...

My laundry list of questions that follow:

-How can you possibly expect to have any ability to accurately discern anything about your environment and your experiences given the parameters that you have proposed? If you were to ever find yourself in some environment that you actually find pleasurable/enjoyable/rewarding - well then according to your theory, that was just manufactured by these 'dark beings' to deceive you. If you were to ever find yourself interacting with a beautiful/benevolent being that radiates love/kindness/compassion towards you - well then according to your theory, that is just one of the 'dark beings' taking on a deceptive form and creating fake energy signatures to fool and trick you. How can you possibly discern anything about your existence in this state when operating with this belief that everything you sense (from your environments to the appearance and emotional energy of others beings) is potentially the work of 'dark beings' whose intention is to trick/deveive/fool/trap/ensnare you? How can you judge anything if you cannot trust what you perceive nor the emotional energy that you sense/experience from environments and other beings? (In my opinion, you've created a situation/circumstance where your judgement/discernment is essentially rendered useless)

- Would it be possible for you to encounter another soul/spirit like you while in this 'afterlife realm'? If so, would you be capable of expressing your true form and expressing genuine/sincere emotional energy towards this fellow soul/spirit? If that's the case, then what if this other soul/spirit operated with the same perspective and understanding as you? Now you would just be another likely fabricated fake form by the dark beings giving off fake energy signatures designed to deceive/trick this innocent soul/spirit. Nothing you do/say/express/feel could be trusted, taken at face value, nor relied upon. You could try to plead your case and insist that you are not part of the deception - but that could just be more manipulation, right? So here you are, a non-dark being, expresing your true form, and acting in accordance with your real nature - yet this fellow soul/spirit would have to dismiss you entirely because there is no ability to discern your true nature given the god-like powers of these dark beings and their ability to deceive/manipulate/trick/fool other beings. So given this theory, you cannot trust anyone/anything, and all others who operate with this same perspective should not and cannot trust you. Seems like a rather superficial and pointless way of existing, does it not?

- You suggested these were 'lower-level' dark beings in charge and in control. Does that mean there are even higher-level dark beings with even greater god-like powers to deceive, fool, trick, manipulate, and trap you? Would these higher-level dark beings be controlling the low-level dark beings against their will, or working on the same team? If there are 'dark' beings, then this implies there are also beings of an opposing nature, yes? So where are all the high level light/benevolent beings with the god-like powers in this picture? Why are they unable to intervene and influence you in the same manner as these dark beings? Also, what kind of existence is this where adopting a malevolent nature and seeking to manipulate/control others is rewarded with extraordinary powers and abilities like the ones you assign to these dark beings? If one intentionally acts evil/bad/negative/malevolent for long enough, can one expect to eventually gain control over other beings, shapeshift, give off fake energy, and create/manufacture astral realities at will? Where is there any sense of justice and reaping what you sow in this type of existence? When are there consequences for destructive behavior?

-If you perceive you are trapped against your will in some kind of fabricated/manufactured 'reality' being run by much more powerful 'dark beings' who control all aspects of your environment - how will you ever escape and how would you ever truly know that you're no longer trapped? Whatever you experience could just be another illusion created by these beings to fool/trick you into believing you've escaped, right? Or what if just beyond this deceptive operation being run by nefarious beings, there is just another even more advanced and elaborate one? And then one beyond that, like a fractal design? When would and when should this way of perceiving your 'reality' come to an end in terms of what you are experiencing?

_________________

As you've discerned by now, I do not subscribe to this theory/perspective whatsoever. But if I were to seriously consider adopting it, I would need plausible and substantial answers to the types of questions I posed above. In my honest opinion, this theory does not bear good fruit. It influences an individual to embrace feeling trapped, imprisoned, disempowered, helpless, hopeless - which weakens one's spirit, does not contribute to one's well-being, and does not yield increased awareness/discernment...

"It is not external things, but our thoughts about them, that bind us or set us free. We forge our own chains, build our own dungeons, take ourselves prisoners; or we loose our bonds, build our own palaces, or roam in freedom through all scenes and events. If I think that my surroundings are powerful to bind me, that thought will keep me bound. If I think that, in my thought and life, I can rise above my surroundings, that thought will liberate me. One should ask of his thoughts, “Are they leading to bondage or deliverance?” and he should abandon thoughts that bind, and adopt thoughts that set free." ~ James Allen

[Morpheus]

In fact, what is borne out in all of the information available to us, is that the Wachowski's perception and illustration is true.
Which is also what has been shared with us in the various spiritual writings and teachings through the ages of time.

Not to mention what the revelations of Physics has borne out since Einstein, and before, concerning this, " world ".

Re: " The Matrix".

[Privater]

I am new to Spiritual Forums. It seems to me that we are not going to prove much here so Scientific is so many angels on the point of a pin. How ever that does mean we can not speculate. Some times the speculation will ring a bell. The things we feel while experiencing a lucid dream may be the key we are looking for!

[Rokon]

So many of us have come to the conclusion that the world is a hologram and that it is our senses that limit what we see, often, this is misconstrued as ‘nothing is real’

To those people I would ask "what would make it more real for you?"

[IdaDown]

Excellent (!) post wolfgaze...I'm a little late to this thread though.

Do you have any suggestions as to how to discern what is good from what is evil masquerading as light? When people are truly deceived by "dark forces" is it possible they discounted red flags in their interactions and let themselves be duped because they so badly wanted to believe?

Ever since my religious days of old when it was said that the devil could dress as an "angel of light", I've feared trusting any experience I've had from the "unseen" world because I'm so worried about being tricked. The hypothetical world you described is one I've been living in for years, unable to truly trust anything because of what if...?

How is one able to discern? If it's possible to be deceived by a dark force there must be something that sticks out, some sign or inner knowing that what one is interacting with is illegitimate. I'm thinking though that in this world of the living, how many of us have truly trusted someone only to later find out they weren't what they seemed, floored when we found out who they really were?

How can we know for sure what we're dealing with?