Jesus is not God

[DivineLove]

These are the channeled writings of Jesus, in Mr. James E. Padgett's book. These are Jesus's views on the bible, and his relationship to God.

I am here, Jesus.

You are now in condition, and I will give you a short message. When I was on earth I was not worshiped as God, but was considered merely as the son of God in the sense that in me were imposed the Truths of my Father and many of His wonderful and mysterious powers. I did not proclaim myself to be God, neither did I permit any of my disciples to believe that I was God, but only that I was His beloved son sent to proclaim to mankind His truths, and show them the way to the Love of the Father. I was not different from other men, except that I possessed to a degree this Love of God, which made me free from sin, and prevented the evils that formed a part of the nature of men from becoming a part of my nature. No man who believes that I am God has a knowledge of the truth, or is obeying the commandments of God by worshiping me. Such worshipers are blaspheming and are doing the cause of God and my teachings great injury. Many a man would have become a true believer in and worshiper of the Father and follower of my teachings, had not this blasphemous dogma been interpolated into the Bible. It was not with my authority, or in consequence of my teachings that such a very injurious doctrine was promulgated or believed in.

I am only a son of my Father as you are, and while I was always free from sin and error, as regards the true conception of my Father's true relationship to mankind, yet you are His son also; and if you will seek earnestly and pray to the Father with faith, you may become as free from sin and error as I was then, and am now.

The Father is Himself, alone. There is no other God besides Him, and no other God to be worshiped. I am His teacher of truth, and am the Way, the Truth and the Life, because in me are those qualities of good and knowledge which fit me to show the way and lead men to eternal life in the Father, and to teach them that God has prepared a Kingdom in which they may live forever, if they so desire. But not withstanding my teachings, men and those who have assumed high places in what is called the Christian Church, impose doctrines so at variance with the truth, that, in these latter days, many men in the exercise of an enlightened freedom and of reason, have become infidels and turned away from God and His Love, and have thought and taught that man, himself, is sufficient for his own salvation.

The time has come when these men must be taught to know that while the teachings of these professed authorities on the truths of God are all wrong, they, these same men, are in error when they refuse to believe in God and my teachings. What my teachings are, I know it is difficult to understand from the writings of the New Testament, for many things therein contained I never said, and many things that I did say are not written therein. I am now going to give to the world the truths as I taught them when on earth, and many that I never disclosed to my disciples or inspired others to write.

No man can come to the Father's Love, except he be born again. This is the great and fundamental Truth which men must learn and believe, for without this New Birth men cannot partake of the Divine Essence of God's Love, which, when possessed by a man, makes him at one with the Father. This Love comes to man by the workings of the Holy Ghost, causing this love to flow into the heart and soul, and filling it, so that all sin and error must be eradicated.

I am not going to tell to-night just how this working of the spirit operates, but, I say, if a man will pray to the Father and believe, and earnestly ask that this Love be given him, he will receive it; and when it comes into his soul he will realize it.

Let not men think that by any effort of their own they can come into this union with the Father, because they cannot. No river can rise higher than its source; and no man who has only the natural love and filled with error can of his own powers cause that natural love to partake of the Divine, or his nature to be relieved of such sin and error.

Man is a mere creature and cannot create anything higher than himself; so man cannot rise to the nature of the Divine, unless the Divine first comes into that man and makes him a part of Its Own Divinity.

All men who do not get a part of this Divine Essence will be left in their natural state, and while they may progress to higher degrees of goodness and freedom from sin and from everything that tends to make them unhappy, yet, they will be only natural men, still.

I came into the world to show men the way to this Divine Love of the Father and teach them his spiritual truths, and my mission was that in all its perfection, and incidentally, to teach them the way to greater happiness on earth as well as in the spirit world by teaching them the way to the purification of the natural love; even though they neglected to seek for and obtain this Divine Love and become one with the Father.

Let men ponder this momentous question, and they will learn that the happiness of the natural man, and the happiness of the man who has obtained the attributes of Divinity, are very different, and in all eternity must be separate and distinct.

My teachings are not very hard to understand and follow, and if men will only listen to them and believe them and follow them, they will learn the way and obtain the one perfect state of happiness which the father has prepared for his children. no man can obtain this state of Celestial bliss, unless he first gets this Divine Love of the Father, and so becomes at one with the Father.

I know it is thought and taught that morality and correct living and great natural love will assure a man's future happiness, and to a degree this is true, but this happiness is not that greater happiness which God desires His children to have; and to show the way to which I came to earth to teach.

But in some hearts and minds my truths found a lodgment, and were preserved to save mankind from total spiritual darkness and a relapse to worship of form and ceremony only.

I have written you this to show that you must not let the teachings of the Bible, and what men wrote or professed to have written therein, keep you from receiving and understanding what I write.

I shall write no more to-night, but I will continue to tell you the Truths which will be "my New Gospel to all men," and when they have heard my messages they will believe that there is only one God, and only one to be worshiped.

With my love and blessings I close for this time.

Jesus



Anyone who wants to read more, feel free. The book can be found at the following link:

http://www.truths.com/formats.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.truths.c om%252525252Fformats.htm)

[ccy]

When I was on earth I was not worshiped as God, but was considered merely as the son of God in the sense that in me were imposed the Truths of my Father and many of His wonderful and mysterious powers. I did not proclaim myself to be God, neither did I permit any of my disciples to believe that I was God, but only that I was His beloved son sent to proclaim to mankind His truths, and show them the way to the Love of the Father. I was not different from other men, except that I possessed to a degree this Love of God, which made me free from sin, and prevented the evils that formed a part of the nature of men from becoming a part of my nature.Yes, exactly. Thank you for posting that. Now, before the fundamentalists take over this thread and start arguing with you, bravo! :smile:

[DivineLove]

Yes, exactly. Thank you for posting that. Now, before the fundamentalists take over this thread and start arguing with you, bravo! :smile:
Thanks ccy! :smile:

The fundamentalists, would be well advised to first READ the words of Jesus (present day), before they throw around scripture and presume to know more than the son of God.

[hybrid]

god was jesus.

[Shim]

god was jesus.

There was for a brief moment when Christ experienced abandonment and despair from the resulted outpouring of divine wrath upon the sin that He who knew no sin became sin. When Jesus cried out “Eloi, Eloi, a lama sabachthani?” He emptied himself of the certain aspects of His deity. In ways we can't fully grasp (Trinity), God the Father turned away from God the the Son for that brief moment in time, and He in order to finish the task surrendered His will to the Father for which He came into the world. And for that brief moment God the Son ceased to be and died a lonely death on that cross on Calvary, and then He became our God.

[psychoslice]

Yes this Jesus if true or not was just a story metaphor, he was made to be seen as our true inner nature the Christ, or the Buddha if you like, he was personified as the actual Christ or God like nature. The thing is we are all the Christ, this Jesus never had anything that you and I haven't got, if we also through Self-Realization realize out true Divinity then we are also God on earth. Jesus himself even said that he cannot do anything without the father, this is because as Jesus the mind body organism, was just that, a body, a body that could do nothing.

[hybrid]

then He became our God.
he don't own god.
nobody owns god
and we don't speak about god as some kind of an object of possession.

the expression OMG is just an abstraction.
it has no coherent consistency in it.


.

[Shim]

Yes this Jesus if true or not was just a story metaphor, he was made to be seen as our true inner nature the Christ, or the Buddha if you like, he was personified as the actual Christ or God like nature. The thing is we are all the Christ, this Jesus never had anything that you and I haven't got, if we also through Self-Realization realize out true Divinity then we are also God on earth. Jesus himself even said that he cannot do anything without the father, this is because as Jesus the mind body organism, was just that, a body, a body that could do nothing.

Christ is God Himself, eternal God incarnate, He is still different than that of the Father. As a man and as man's representative the Son of Man, Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form. Jesus was dependent on the Father for strength, guidance, wisdom, ect. The God of the Son because He is the Son of God doesn't imply inferiority only differences in roles. The Son of God is only a difference in roles than the Father; however, none of us are the Father as much as we are not the Son of God.

[Shim]

he don't own god.
nobody owns god
and we don't speak about god as some kind of an object of possession.

the expression OMG is just an abstraction.
it has no coherent consistency in it.


.

You're right, because if you are not a Christian you have no right to consider yourself a son or a child of God.

[hybrid]

You're right, because if you are not a Christian you have no right to consider yourself a son or a child of God.
every human has the right for divine sonship.
you spiritual understanding is very bookish.
and tribal, meaning to you only certain group of people are spiritually privileged.

.

[Shim]

every human has the right for divine sonship.
you spiritual understanding is very bookish.

.

And from where have you formed a basis for this conclusion?

[hybrid]

And from where have you formed a basis for this conclusion?

from your previous post when you said a non christian has no right to consider himself a child of god.
this is tribal theology.
you believed that only certain group of people are spiritually privileged.
this doctrine is called exclusivism.
this is actually despicable to those outside the circle of the chosen ones.

.

[Shim]

from your previous post when you said a non christian has no right to consider himself a child of god.
this is tribal theology.
you believed that only certain group of people are spiritually privileged.
this doctrine is called exclusivism.
this is actually despicable to those outside the circle of the chosen ones.

.

Well don't call me a people pleaser. Time is up, I'm off to the airport.

[psychoslice]

Christ is God Himself, eternal God incarnate, He is still different than that of the Father. As a man and as man's representative the Son of Man, Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form. Jesus was dependent on the Father for strength, guidance, wisdom, ect. The God of the Son because He is the Son of God doesn't imply inferiority only differences in roles. The Son of God is only a difference in roles than the Father; however, none of us are the Father as much as we are not the Son of God.
No I don't agree with you at all, we are all ONE in GOD, we are all the SONS of GOD, don't believe the lie that you ain't, this is what true sin or the anti-Christ is. To deny your true Divinity is to deny your true SELF as the Christ, this is the anti-Christ.

[Shabda]

No I don't agree with you at all, we are all ONE in GOD, we are all the SONS of GOD, don't believe the lie that you ain't, this is what true sin or the anti-Christ is. To deny your true Divinity is to deny your true SELF as the Christ, this is the anti-Christ.
i agree...

[hybrid]

Well don't call me a people pleaser. Time is up, I'm off to the airport. being not a people pleaser is not a spiritual virtue.
lots of anti social non people pleaser out there.

it's just a personality whereas your conviction is non negotiable,
very fixated and unable to adapt to other spiritual concepts of the same meanings.

your understanding is not actually wrong.
trinity is one of the best metaphysical description of reality imho.
perhaps it just needed an underlying basis (hupostasis) beneath your "textbook"understanding.

.
.

[Amilius777]

We are all sons and daughters of God. We are made in his image. What was the difference between Jesus and all the past prophets who experienced this divine nature aka: Christ Consciousness, aka: Divine Love? They were channels of the Spirit of Christ and bringing that awareness to the world. Like Moses, Buddha, Abraham.

But Jesus was the full embodiment of the spirit, mind, and body of Christ. He was one and the same with the Christ Consciousness. No other person(s) had this since the days of Adam (first divine/human race before the Fall). He was bestowed with the grace and divinity of God the "Christhood". He was the chosen one. John the Baptist could not be the Christ for he increased as Elijah and worked out his karma through his beheading. Jesus was the purest soul that ever lived. He was chosen by God to be "The Christ".

1. Jesus was the Man, the Pattern, the Elder Brother, the soul who exemplified the divinity of God, a fully realized son of God. :book1:

2. Christ is the spirit, the messenger, the power, the consciousness, the eternal God the Son. :angel8:

These two were one and the same in the life of Jesus of Nazareth.

The son of man refers to the body-consciousness, the human nature which must be risen up to God.

The Son of God refers to the divine-consciousness that dwells within all of us, waiting to be awakened

I will say that the Roman Catholic Belief comes true when they refer to the uniqueness of Jesus. The fact that not until Jesus came was the Christ Consciousness (God the Son) fully incarnate in the earth so we could all learn to become the same Christ in our experiences.

So after reading all of this and from these conclusions-

Jesus is God. :D

[DivineLove]

You're right, because if you are not a Christian you have no right to consider yourself a son or a child of God.
Every living soul, is precious to Our Holy Father.

Every soul that the Father creates, is His child.

Whether that soul is aware of his Creator, or completely oblivious.

The Father's Love shines on everyone.

Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Buddhist/Atheist/.....................everyone. :)

[DivineLove]

We are all sons and daughters of God. We are made in his image. What was the difference between Jesus and all the past prophets who experienced this divine nature aka: Christ Consciousness, aka: Divine Love? They were channels of the Spirit of Christ and bringing that awareness to the world. Like Moses, Buddha, Abraham.

But Jesus was the full embodiment of the spirit, mind, and body of Christ. He was one and the same with the Christ Consciousness. No other person(s) had this since the days of Adam (first divine/human race before the Fall). He was bestowed with the grace and divinity of God the "Christhood". He was the chosen one. John the Baptist could not be the Christ for he increased as Elijah and worked out his karma through his beheading. Jesus was the purest soul that ever lived. He was chosen by God to be "The Christ".

1. Jesus was the Man, the Pattern, the Elder Brother, the soul who exemplified the divinity of God, a fully realized son of God. :book1:
2. Christ is the spirit, the messenger, the power, the consciousness, the eternal God the Son. :angel8:
These two were one and the same in the life of Jesus of Nazareth.
The son of man refers to the body-consciousness, the human nature which must be risen up to God.
The Son of God refers to the divine-consciousness that dwells within all of us, waiting to be awakened
I will say that the Roman Catholic Belief comes true when they refer to the uniqueness of Jesus. The fact that not until Jesus came was the Christ Consciousness (God the Son) fully incarnate in the earth so we could all learn to become the same Christ in our experiences.
So after reading all of this and from these conclusions-
Jesus is God. :D Amilius.
Jesus is not God.

After reading everyone's posts here, it's amazing to sit back, and see how prevalent this belief is. Despite Jesus's words, to the contrary.
God, is God alone.
Jesus stipulates this as a fact.
The Father, has created an infinite Universe. With countless numbers of stars.

Do you think, that such a Being, would need to come down to our level?
A Being capable of Creating the entire Universe. Just picture how much energy is needed to create our sun, in this galaxy?
Do you have any idea how many sun's there are, in the Universe?
Do you truly believe, that a Being with that kind of power, would feel any need to come down to our level?
I can quote another passage from this book to support my viewpoint. But for now, I just want all of us to use our "common sense".
Exercise our own faculties.
Jesus, was God's son, because he was the FIRST to receive His Divine Substance, in all It's Fullness, while in the flesh. The first of his kind. Jesus became the Christ, when God's Divine Substance, filled his soul, making him Divine.
If Jesus was God, do you think he would need to go through a process to receive his own Substance?

[hybrid]

the birth of jesus was an awesome cosmic event .
it depicted the entry of the Creator into his creation.
a new beginning of a long process of understanding our nature and of existence.

.

[DivineLove]

the birth of jesus was an awesome cosmic event .
it depicted the entry of the Creator into his creation.
a new beginning of a long process of understanding our nature and of existence. Whether you are using the bible as a reference point, or this book by Mr.Padgett, which contain Jesus's teachings.

In both cases, we have Jesus, making several references to the Father.
Praying to the Father.
Who is Jesus referring to, when he says "the Father"?
If Jesus was God, would he not proclaim it himself?
And if he was God, what need would he have for a Father?
A Being who has Created the Universe, cannot possibly be contained in a little tiny human vessel.
Jesus making reference to his Father, quite clearly points to a much Higher Source.

[hybrid]

A Being who has Created the Universe, cannot possibly be contained in a little tiny human vessel. says who? according to your limitations not god's.
.

[psychoslice]

The Christ is the mediator between our full Divinity the father, the Christ is our individuality who has realized the truth that we are the Christ, but the Christ and the father are ONE, this is what is called Enlightenment.

[psychoslice]

says who? according to your limitations not god's. Yes this is true and I have to say very laughable. I just cannot believe that anyone can believe that Jesus held all that there is in that one tiny mind body ???????.

[hybrid]

the father and i are one. - JC
there is no divisions to say this is the creator and there is the creation.
all separations is in the carnal mind.
.

[DivineLove]

Yes this is true and I have to say very laughable.
I just cannot believe that anyone can believe that Jesus held all that there is in that one tiny mind body ???????. I agree with you psychoslie. It is rather laughable.:smile:
Our God, would not bother confining Himself to a human form.
Jesus says that God is very high up, in His home, in the Highest Heavens.

[psychoslice]

the father and i are one. - JC
there is no divisions to say this is the creator and there is the creation.
all separations is in the carnal mind. Yes I agree totally, therefore we are all ONE with the Source or the father, when we realize this we then let the Source shine through us, we are then the light of the world.

[hybrid]

Yes this is true and I have to say very laughable. I just cannot believe that anyone can believe that Jesus held all that there is in that one tiny mind body ???????.
or the totality of GOD can fit into one tiny bodymind, for that matter.

i mean it's equally laughable to think that god can't do that,
neither that he wont do it because he's sooooooooooo unreachable up high there.
sounds too snooty and snobby for me. LOL
.

[psychoslice]

I agree with you psychoslie. It is rather laughable.:smile:
Our God, would not bother confining Himself to a human form.
Jesus says that God is very high up, in His home, in the Highest Heavens. Hi DivineLove, yes I believe that this the old way of Christianity will slowly give way to this new teaching that we are all ONE, this will also mean we will have
a much happier world, no more living under a dictating god.

[psychoslice]

or the totality of GOD can fit into one tiny bodymind, for that matter.

i mean it's equally laughable to think that god can't do that,
neither he wont do it because he's sooooooooooo unreachable up high there.
sounds too snooty and snobby for me. LOL
.
As long as you are happy, then so be it.

[DivineLove]

the father and i are one. - JC
there is no divisions to say this is the creator and there is the creation.
all separations is in the carnal mind. Being at-one with God, does not mean actually being God.

Being at-one with God, is what Jesus is referring to, when he says, that the Father and I, are one. This at-one-ment, is something all of God's children can share. Jesus was the first to complete this process, of becoming Divine. He teaches how the rest of us can also, achieve Divinity, through God's Divine Love. We too, can be at-one with God.

Being God, is simply not possible.

Again, I have to re-state my question to you Hybrid.
If Jesus is God, then who is he referring to, when he speaks of the Father?

And if he was God, why do none of his teachings show any reference to this?

There are many references to being at-one with God. Most certainly.

But none where Jesus professes to be anyone other than the son of God.
His Father's son.

[hybrid]

As long as you are happy, then so be it. well the point is that there is no objective reality to say god is outside or inside .
.

[psychoslice]

well the point is that there is no objective reality to say god is outside or inside .

.
So you don't believe that Jesus was god ?. Because of course God is everywhere there is nowhere that God isn't, so there you have it, we are all reflecting God within and through us, do you agree with that ?.

[DivineLove]

or the totality of GOD can fit into one tiny bodymind, for that matter.

i mean it's equally laughable to think that god can't do that,
neither that he wont do it because he's sooooooooooo unreachable up high there.
sounds too snooty and snobby for me. LOL
.

Hybrid, I agree with you, when you say that nothing is impossible for God.

I would agree with this 100%. Jesus also confirms this.
God is Absolute. He can do whatever He pleases.

In this book, Jesus teaches that God has never needed a spirit body, or worse yet, a flesh body.
God does not need any of these bodies.
God is a SOUL.
This is the part of us, that is made in the likeness of our Creator.

Our souls, are the only part of us, that are made in God's image.

God is a SOUL. The most powerful Soul in all of existence.

Being God's created children, little tiny souls. We need physical bodies, in order to occupy this Earth plane.

And when we drop the Earth body, and move into spirit, our spirit bodies envelop our souls.

God does not have any need for such things.

Only we do. Being creations of our Holy Father.

[hybrid]

So you don't believe that Jesus was god ?. Because of course God is everywhere there is nowhere that God isn't, so there you have it, we are all reflecting God within and through us, do you agree with that ?.

no. i don't believe jesus is god, i believe god was jesus.

.

[psychoslice]

no. i don't believe jesus is god, i believe god was jesus. Yes, as he is you and I also and all together we are ONE.

[hybrid]

yes, it's kinda better sounding to say god is with me than to say i am god.:)

.

[supernova]

yes, it's kinda better sounding to say god is with me than to say i am god.:)We are God or we are the manifestations of God and there can be no two entities and if we accept any other entity this leads to duality

[hybrid]

"i am god" is egoism

[psychoslice]

yes, it's kinda better sounding to say god is with me than to say i am god.:)

.
Yea I don't like to say that i am god, I think it comes more from the ego when we say it that way. Yea I like to say God is with me, within me, and part of me. I think we are really just saying the same thing but words divide us, those stupid words that can never be what IS.

[hybrid]

yes. some words are misleading and some are pointing. hehe

[Shim]

In John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" Jesus says that He is doing the Father's will, implying that He is subservient to the Father. In Hebrews 1:8, “But about the Son He says, ’Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” Jesus is God, The Father refers to Jesus as O God.

In Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." The second Person of the Trinity is Jesus who took on human flesh. Therefore, for all purposes and intents, Jesus was fully human and "made lower than the angels." Jesus is, however, fully divine, Jesus did not relinquish His divine nature.
God cannot stop being God. There is no difference between the two as to their essence; they stand as equals. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, all three members are essentially equal; they are divine in nature. In the plan of redemption, they play certain roles and these roles define authority and subservience. The Father commands the Son, and the Father and the Son command the Holy Spirit.

When Jesus declares, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. The greatness spoken of in this verse, then relates to role not to essence. Philippians 2:5-11 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

[3dnow]

"i am god" is egoism "I'm burning God".
So, what is this?
3dnow

[hybrid]

"I'm burning God".
So, what is this?
3dnow not atheism, since it senseless to burn something that ain't existing.

a god hater perhaps?

.

[Geometry]

If you open a modern bible and look at Mark chapter chapter 1 verse 1
it says "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the son of God."

But if you look at the codex sinaiticus which is an old bible you will notice
that in verse 1 the reference "the son of God" missing. Why is this? Is it possible that the bible has been tampered with as time went by.

Considering all the extra books contained within the codex sinaiticus
that are no longer part of the bible it seems to me that
much tampering of the bible has occurred.

In the old testament it talks about having no other Gods before me.
But yet in the today's bibles the new testament introduces
Jesus as a son of God.

Is Christianity today a form of Paulism?

Not everyone in history thought of Paul's writings as true. I don't put much
weight in the Gospel of Barnabas but In the Gospel of Barnabas I found something interesting. In chapter 222 we find the following:
"Others preached, and yet preach, that Jesus is the Son of God, among whom is Paul deceived."

I believe that Jesus was one with God
and we can do the same.

[3dnow]

not atheism, since it senseless to burn something that ain't existing.

a god hater perhaps?

.

Exactly. The biblical God that doesn't exist.

I'm not atheist. I believe in our divine nature but I don't believe in God.

3dnow

[Mind's Eye]

This reminds me of the guy who wrote a book and claimed to be the reincarnation of St. Paul. I believed him as much as I do that someone channeled Jesus so that he could set us all straight on what he was really all about....

Nonsense I say... complete and utter tomfoolery :tongue:

[DivineLove]

Therefore, for all purposes and intents, Jesus was fully human and "made lower than the angels." Jesus is, however, fully divine, Jesus did not relinquish His divine nature. God cannot stop being God. There is no difference between the two as to their essence; they stand as equals.

This part is totally true.

Therefore, for all purposes and intents, Jesus was fully human and "made lower than the angels."

This part, not so much.
There is no difference between the two as to their essence; they stand as equals.

God is God alone. Sharing in His Essence, is not the same thing, as being God.
Christ is a privilege that The Holy Father allows to take place, within His children's souls. Jesus has the most of His Divine Substance.

But your first statement, is much closer to the truth. Jesus was fully human, save for his role, his function, and the AMOUNT of God's Love within His soul.

God is God alone.
We will forever be, but children before our Holy Father.

[LightFilledHeart]

Since God indwells each one of us, then we are all part of God. There is nothing in God's creation that is NOT God. All aspects hold at their core the God essence, thus all are One and all are God.

[hybrid]

jesus is hybrid.

[psychoslice]

jesus is hybrid.
No, Jesus is not Hybrid, Hybrid is the Christ, but only when Hybrid truly Realizes this from within.

[DivineLove]

Here is another passage from Mr. Padgett's book. This is Jesus explaining God and His Attributes.

I am here, Jesus.

Then the question is: Who and What is God?

In dealing with this question, you must realize that it is not so easy to describe in language that mortals can comprehend the Essence and Attributes of God, and I feel the limitations that I am under in endeavoring to give you a satisfactory description of the only and true God; not because of the paucity of knowledge and conception on my part, but because of the fact that you have not the required soul development to enable me to form the necessary rapport with you, in order that through your brain, may be expressed the exact truth as to who the Father is.

Well, to begin, God is Soul, and Soul is God. Not the soul that is in the created man, but the Soul that is Deity and self-existent, without beginning or ending, and Whose entity is the one great fact in the universe of being.

God is without form, such as has been conceived of by man in nearly all ages, and especially by those who believe in the Bible of the Hebrews as well as in that of the Christians. But nevertheless, He is of form, which only the soul perceptions of the soul of a man which has arrived at a certain degree of development, that is taken on the Divine nature of the Father and thus become a part of the Soul of God, can discern and realize as an entity. There is nothing in all nature with which men are acquainted or have knowledge of, that can be used to make a comparison, even in the spirit perceptions, with this Great Soul; and hence, for men to conceive of God as having a form in any manner resembling that of man, is all erroneous; and those who, in their beliefs and teachings, deny the anthropomorphic God, are correct.

But, nevertheless, God is of form such as to give him an entity and Substance and seat of habitation, in contradistinction to that God which, in the teachings of some men, is said to be everywhere in this Substance and entity - in the trees and rocks, and thunder and lightning, and in men and beasts, and in all created things, and in whom men are said to live and move and have their being. No, this concept of God is not in accord with the truth, and it is vital to the knowledge and salvation of men that such conception of God be not entertained or believed in.

To believe that God is without form is to believe that he is a mere force or principle or nebulous power, and, as some say, the resultant of laws; which laws, as a fact, He has established for the controlling of His universe of creation, and which are expressed to men by these very powers and principles, that to some extent, they can comprehend.

The child has asked: "Who made God?" And because the wise men cannot answer that question, in their wisdom, they conclude and assert that there can be no real God of personality or soul form, and, hence, only force, principle or evolved laws can be God; and in their own conceit think that they have solved the question. But the child may not be satisfied with the answer, and may ask the wise men: "Who made principle and force and laws that must be accepted as the only God?" And then, the wise men cannot answer, unless they answer: "God," which they do not believe, but which let me say, is the true and only answer.

God is back of force and principle and law, which are only expressions of His being, and which without Him could not exist; and they are only existences, changeable, dependent and subject to the will of God, who only, is Being.

God then, is Soul, and that Soul has its form, perceptible only to Itself, or that of man, which, by reason of the sufficient possession of the very Substance of the Great Soul has become like unto God, not in image only, but in very Essence. We spirits of the highest soul progression are enabled by our soul perceptions to see God and His form. But here, I use the words "see" and "form," as being the only words that I can use to give mortals a comparative conception of what I am endeavoring to describe.

When it is remembered that mortals can scarcely conceive of the form of the spirit body of a man, which is composed or formed of the material of the universe, though not usually accepted to be of the material, it will be readily seen that it is hardly possible for me to convey to them a faint idea even of the Soul form of God, which is composed of that which is purely spiritual - that is, not of the material, even though to the highest degree sublimated.

And although I am not able because of the limitations mentioned, to describe to men that form which they may glean a conception of the Soul's form - as such form can be seen only with the soul's eye, which eyes men do not possess - it must not be believed that because men cannot understand or perceive the truth of the Soul's form, therefore, it is not a truth. A truth, truth of the Soul's form, therefore, it is not a truth. A truth, though not conceived or perceived by men, spirits or angels, is still a truth, and its existence does not depend upon its being known; and even though all the mortals of earth, and the spirits and angels of heaven, save one, could not perceive the existence of that truth, yet its existence perceived by that one irrefutably proves its reality.

But, as I have said, the truth of God's form - the Soul's form can be testified to by more than one of the celestial spirits of men passed from earth; and the possibility is before mortals of the present life, in the great future, if their souls have become possessed of the Divine Substance of God's Love in sufficient abundance to perceive God as I have attempted to explain.

The created soul of man has its form, it being made in the image of God, yet man cannot see that form, although it is a fact and can be testified to by many in the spirit realms.

And here it need to be said, that when in our message we speak of God as being without form, we mean any such form as men have or think they have conceived of, and our expressions must not be considered as contradictory to what I have tried to explain as the form of God.

Well, in addition to the form, God has a personality, and this is expressed and made known to man by certain attributes, which to the consciousness of man is existent in the universe; and to some philosophers and scientists and wise men these attributes are their impersonal God himself, and to them the only God. They make the created, the Creator, not realizing that behind the expression must be the Cause; and that greater than the attribute must be That from which the expression of the attribute is projected, or, as they better like to say, evolved.

And here, I, who know, desire to say that these manifested attributes or forces and powers and principles and laws and expressions do not, all together, constitute or be that from which they flow or in which they have their source. God is Himself, alone. His Attributes or expressions manifested to mortals or spirits, are only the results or effects of the workings of His Spirit, which Spirit is only the active energy of His Soul - Himself. And hence, the form of God is not distributed over the whole universe of creation where His attributes may be, or because they are everywhere manifested.

No, as was said by Moses of old, and as was said by me when on earth: God is in His Heavens. And although it may be surprising and startling to mortals to hear, God has His habitation, and God the Substance, the Self-existing and Soul form, has His locality, and men do not live and move and have their existence in God; but in His emanations and expressions and spirit they do.

Your brother and friend,

Jesus

If you would like to read more, feel free. The book can be found at the following link:

http://www.truths.com/formats.htm

[psychoslice]

Whoa, well said.
The illusion of separation (translated as 'sin'), yes, not knowing who you truly are,
which Christ did - He realized what and who He was - thus, the "Christ Consciousness" where he could say clearly - "The Father and I are one", John 10:30
You look at me and you are looking at the Father, Philip. The Father is in me and I am in the Father - (around Matt or John 14:9, I think) ...these words have been misunderstood for centuries so that it places Jesus as separate, rather than His Awareness being that he is one with his Father as we can also be... thus "joint heirs". Beautifully said Miss Hepburn, its sad that most so called Christian see this as an attack on their belief, when in fact its adding back the beauty of what was over the many years taken away from the scriptures.

[DivineLove]

No, Jesus is not Hybrid, Hybrid is the Christ, but only when Hybrid truly Realizes this from within.

Psychoslice, you're very close.

Hybrid has the opportunity, to become the Christ. This is the opportunity we all have, the potential is there.

But it does not come from WITHIN.

The desire, comes from WITHIN.

God's Divine Substance, comes from God.

There is nothing Divine within you, or me, or anything else.

God is the only Divine Being, capable of sharing His Divine Essence, with his children.

And until the soul, begins to pray for God's Divine Love, to enter into his/her soul, by way of the Holy Spirit, there will not be a drop of Divine Essence.

It is not discovered within.

Buddha nature, and Self-Realization, are NATURAL PATHS.
Meaning, that they have nothing to do with God's Divine Substance.

And for anyone who thinks that we are all God, or that God is secretly hiding within each of us. Read the above passage from Jesus.

Please believe me, when I say, that if you and I and everyone, if we were God, we would not be sitting here, striking keys on a plastic keyboard, trying to express ideas.

If you were God, you would know.

You and me, and everyone we know, are but children of our God.

The greatest opportunity, the greatest potential that the human soul can achieve, is to receive God's Divine Substance, His Essence within our souls. Then this souls, becomes at-one with the Father. Eternal.
And with all the glory that comes with that, you and I, and everyone we know, would still not be God. But merely His Divine children. Sharing in His Divine Substance. Eternally.

God, is God alone. Christ, is the greatest Gift, that our God can bestow on the human soul.:hug3:

[Saint Seraphim]

There is another thought or idea about Jesus. And it is that Jesus was the firstborn of all of creation, the first made or created being that was with God from before the beginning of the All. In the beginning God said, "Let US make man in our image and likeness." There are other things that Jesus said that would agree with this and one of them was Jesus saying that he saw Lucifer disappear like a lighting bolt out of heaven. Jesus is/was the closest being to God from the beginning. Thus, from an anthropomorphic perspective, God is above Jesus. Jesus is above all else under God. God flows through Jesus and Jesus to us. Jesus said simply to believe in him.

I do believe that there is divinity within us all through Jesus Christ. And Jesus even said that many of us may have the capacity or ability to do some of the wonderful things he was able to do. If that is so, why do we not see it or realize it? Why are there not more human beings who can do the things Jesus was able to do? And if one proclaims to have attained "Christ Consciousness" or "Christ within" then where are the miracles, healing of the sick, raising of the dead, etc. etc.? I have read where many proclaim their divinity at this forum, but yet, I have not seen or heard of any actions reinforcing these claims. Spiritual Thoughts without Spiritual Actions mean nothing. If one puts themselves upon equal ground with Jesus or God, stop the endless debate and quibbling and get out their and heal this world if you can. All of what I shared here I apply to myself. And it is what motivates my being. It is God's Love that gives all of us the true power to change this world and become more like Jesus, a true son of God.
Much Love to All,
Saint Seraphim

[psychoslice]

I'm sorry DivineLove but you are too far away from god, you are putting God separate when God is all that there is, God is within, without, below, above. God is not some personal figure setting above us on a thorn and looking down, yes we are all ONE in GOD, if you believe that your not then where are you ????.

[hybrid]

Here is another passage from Mr. Padgett's book. This is Jesus explaining God and His Attributes.

I am here, Jesus.

Then the question is: Who and What is God?

In dealing with this question, you must realize that it is not so easy to describe in language that mortals can comprehend the Essence and Attributes of God, and I feel the limitations that I am under in endeavoring to give you a satisfactory description of the only and true God; not because of the paucity of knowledge and conception on my part, but because of the fact that you have not the required soul development to enable me to form the necessary rapport with you, in order that through your brain, may be expressed the exact truth as to who the Father is.

Your brother and friend,

Jesus
If you would like to read more, feel free. The book can be found at the following link:
http://www.truths.com/formats.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truths.com%2Fforma ts.htm) god is both immanent and transcendent.

.

[hybrid]

No, Jesus is not Hybrid, Hybrid is the Christ, but only when Hybrid truly Realizes this from within.

hehe sorry can't resist it :D

[papadan]

Jesus said he is the son of God, I certainly am not going to call him a liar! :smile:

[psychoslice]

Jesus said he is the son of God, I certainly am not going to call him a liar! :smile:
Why are you frightened of him ?, Jesus spoke to the ignorant at that time, he knew that he couldn't just come out and tell them the truth plainly, their ego's would have taken it for themselves. He spoke of this Oneness that we are all off as if it was him itself, he personalized it. The deeper truth is that what this man Jesus became, we can also when we believe we can. As long as you believe you can't, well thats where you will be, on the outside looking in. So whats taking you so long ?, come inside with me and rejoice, or party.

[psychoslice]

hehe sorry can't resist it :D
Yer laugh it out brother, what more can we do, its so funny lol.:blob3:

[Gracey]

a hammerhead shark held in captivity and a komodo dragon held in captivity had virgins births, so they must be god too. imo, jesus was not god, his soul was a representation of god and he showed us his way, which was his greatest commandment....love.....and it is up to us to find our own.

[psychoslice]

Do you see the lord like I do ?, this song I wrote says it all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83r9a7LhA_s

[psychoslice]

a hammerhead shark held in captivity and a komodo dragon held in captivity had virgins births, so they must be god too. imo, jesus was not god, his soul was a representation of god and he showed us his way, which was his greatest commandment....love.....and it is up to us to find our own.
Wonderfully said Gracey, you are certainly under grace.:hug3:

[papadan]

Why are you frightened of him ?, Jesus spoke to the ignorant at that time, he knew that he couldn't just come out and tell them the truth plainly, their ego's would have taken it for themselves. He spoke of this Oneness that we are all off as if it was him itself, he personalized it. The deeper truth is that what this man Jesus became, we can also when we believe we can. As long as you believe you can't, well thats where you will be, on the outside looking in. So whats taking you so long ?, come inside with me and rejoice, or party.
Never said I was afraid or frightened of him. Interesting that you read so much into my one statement.
By his words(as written in the Bible) it seems he believed he was the son of God.
Personally, I believe we all have the same forces at our disposal that it is written he used.
It is even written that he said that the things he did, we could do also.

I have been fortunate in this life, to have had an open mind since an early age. Most people seem blind to their possibilities, influenced by handed-down beliefs.

[psychoslice]

Never said I was afraid or frightened of him. Interesting that you read so much into my one statement.
By his words(as written in the Bible) it seems he believed he was the son of God.
Personally, I believe we all have the same forces at our disposal that it is written he used.
It is even written that he said that the things he did, we could do also.

I have been fortunate in this life, to have had an open mind since an early age. Most people seem blind to their possibilities, influenced by handed-down beliefs.
That's it, its just all handed down beliefs, we have to discover the truth within for or SELF. Why do so many wast their time on a prophet that supposedly lived around 2000 years ago ?, yes we can follow what he pointed to but not him, that's just a wast of time.

[papadan]

That's it, its just all handed down beliefs, we have to discover the truth within for or SELF. Why do so many wast their time on a prophet that supposedly lived around 2000 years ago ?, yes we can follow what he pointed to but not him, that's just a wast of time.

Some people do not have the self-confidence to work alone. If their abilities are strengthened by a belief in a person that may or may not have lived centuries ago, I see nothing wrong with that. The end result is what matters.

The problem seems to come when people are influenced by the written living standards of other men that the Bible seems to contain.
When the Bible was made into one book by a group of men, the legends and written material they sorted through was either included or excluded to meet their standards of the time.

Most people do not realize that at the time,of the Bible, few people could read and written material was only in the hands of a few and interpreted to the masses. History bears this fact out.

Organized religion left out a lot of material that could have been very informative to an inquiring mind.

[DivineLove]

Some people do not have the self-confidence to work alone. If their abilities are strengthened by a belief in a person that may or may not have lived centuries ago, I see nothing wrong with that. The end result is what matters.

The problem seems to come when people are influenced by the written living standards of other men that the Bible seems to contain.
When the Bible was made into one book by a group of men, the legends and written material they sorted through was either included or excluded to meet their standards of the time.

Most people do not realize that at the time,of the Bible, few people could read and written material was only in the hands of a few and interpreted to the masses. History bears this fact out.

Organized religion left out a lot of material that could have been very informative to an inquiring mind. Papadan,
Very well written. All very true.:smile:

[psychoslice]

Some people do not have the self-confidence to work alone. If their abilities are strengthened by a belief in a person that may or may not have lived centuries ago, I see nothing wrong with that. The end result is what matters.

The problem seems to come when people are influenced by the written living standards of other men that the Bible seems to contain.
When the Bible was made into one book by a group of men, the legends and written material they sorted through was either included or excluded to meet their standards of the time.

Most people do not realize that at the time,of the Bible, few people could read and written material was only in the hands of a few and interpreted to the masses. History bears this fact out.

Organized religion left out a lot of material that could have been very informative to an inquiring mind.
Yes and thats my point, you have to move on from these supposedly scriptures, and supposedly god men, no matter who, we have to move on to find the truth within, its never going to be found outside. In other words we have to mature in spirit, not stay on the milk that is meant for babes, but to move onto the meat or the deeper truths.

[psychoslice]

Hebrews 5


11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

King James Version (KJV)

[DivineLove]

Psychoslice,

That song that you posted, the one that "says it all".

Let us use a songwriter, as an analogy.
When a singer writes a song.
Does he "become" the song?

No, obviously not, because a human being, a human soul and a piece of music are 2 very different things.

Now, from the song, you can "sense" the soul. You can have impressions of that soul, that has made this music.

But inside of the song or art, is not the substance of the artist himself, but rather the fruits, let us say, the spirit is inside of the art.

But you will not find the painter, INSIDE OF THE PAINTING.
You can know a lot about the painter's soul.
But if break apart the canvas, all you will find, will be just that. Dry paint, and a broken canvas.
You will not find a single drop of human DNA, from the painter who painted that portrait.

The artist, is not found INSIDE of his work.

I write songs. I am not in my songs. But my songs definitely tell a story about who I am.

God has created everything. But I doubt very much, that God is IN EVERYTHING.

Much like we are not literally, a part of our creations.

God, is the Supreme Creator. And from His Creations, we can sense the power of This Great Soul.

Some of God's Creations: The Universe, Life, Everything. The human soul.

There is nothing to support your claim, that God is in everything, and that we are ALL God.

This is just an opinion. A "New Age" perspective.
A very commonly held perspective.

Something that is commonly accepted, even by a majority,
does not automatically make it true.

[psychoslice]

Psychoslice,

That song that you posted, the one that "says it all".

Let us use a songwriter, as an analogy.
When a singer writes a song.
Does he "become" the song?

No, obviously not, because a human being, a human soul and a piece of music are 2 very different things.
. Not a bad try but I think pure Being is much more than a song, it is the song the song writer its the guitar its the microphone there is nothing that it is not. You keep putting yourself separate from God, I can't understand why ?.


DivineLove There is nothing to support your claim, that God is in everything, and that we are ALL God.

There is nothing to support your claim either, do you believe that this God that you speak of is a man, like us ?, I just want to know where you are coming from ?.

[papadan]

Papadan,

Very well written. All very true.:smile:
DivineLove, I appreciate your original post. The topic is most interesting and has raised interesting comments.

[DivineLove]

Not a bad try but I think pure Being is much more than a song, it is the song the song writer its the guitar its the microphone there is nothing that it is not. You keep putting yourself separate from God, I can't understand why ?.


DivineLove There is nothing to support your claim, that God is in everything, and that we are ALL God.

There is nothing to support your claim either, do you believe that this God that you speak of is a man, like us ?, I just want to know where you are coming from ?.
My friend, I will tell you exactly, and sincerely where I am coming from. :smile:

The last 10 years, I've spent with Eastern stuff. Yoga, meditation, etc. 3 years, with Advaita Vedanta, the yoga of consciousness. I reached Self-Realization. Lived in pure awareness for some time.

Then I came across these teachings, which are the channeled teachings of Jesus and the Celestial Spirits.
In this book, the man, Jesus, whom I was not even sure existed, because I never trusted the church.
In this book, that same spirit, explains some of the deepest Truths, about God, about the different spirit realms, about the soul, God's Attributes, soul mates.
Literally everything.

Until this book, I held the same perspective you had. We are all a part of God. All are one. All kinds of new age/Eastern philosophies.

Then in this book, Jesus breaks it down, and explains things with a logic and authority, that I have never heard any other living soul express.

So much so, that I abandoned the Eastern stuff, feeling how inconsequential it was, compared to actually receiving the Very Substance of God's Divine Love, within my soul.
Which I pray for, every day.

The Eastern stuff, all of these are called, NATURAL PRACTICES.
They do not lead to God's Divine Substance or His Divine Love.
They lead to Natural rewards. Calm mind. Pure awareness.
If you stay immersed in pure awareness, the mind drops, and when
the mind drops, time also drops away completely, and what you are
left with, is one endless, uninterrupted moment of NOW.
A constant NOW. Hard to explain.
But it is all part of a "natural" practice.

What Jesus, was teaching in the bible 2000 years ago.
Is exactly what he teaches in this book, that I found, published in the 1920's, by a medium named Mr. James E. Padgett.

What Jesus teaches, is not a "natural" practice.
It is a Divine Path.
Which leads to God's Divine Love.

When I compare the teachings within the bible, and the ones in this book, although 2000 years have gone by, and this book reveals many more things about the spirit world.

The author, is unmistakable.

You would know Jesus, you would sense his wisdom, if you read it.

And it is he that says, that in none of his Father's Creations, is there a single drop of God, or His Divine Substance.

Although I used to believe the opposite, I yield to a Higher Wisdom, when I sense it.

I cannot fault you for holding to your viewpoint. As I held the same, for a very long time.

But that has since changed. And I have revealed the cause, and the source.
So you can know, precisely where I am coming from. :hug3:

[psychoslice]

Hi DivineLove, for one thing I don't have beliefs, also I or apparently I also have disappeared into pure Awareness which is labeled Enlightenment, you say that you are Self-realized ?, I find this odd, why would you be Self-Realized and still trying to find God through Jesus ?. Enlightenment is doing away with all these belief systems and ideologies and just resting into what IS. Also it seems to me that you never really understood the teaching of the Eastern teachings, if you had you would have known that they say the very things that Jesus supposedly said, in fact it has been proven that all that Jesus said was stolen from many other scriptures long before Jesus ever existed. I don't want to carry on arguing over beliefs but with your belief you can make life of others confusing and leaving them never knowing of their true SELF.

[Shabda]

Hi DivineLove, for one thing I don't have beliefs, also I or apparently I also have disappeared into pure Awareness which is labeled Enlightenment, you say that you are Self-realized ?, I find this odd, why would you be Self-Realized and still trying to find God through Jesus ?. Enlightenment is doing away with all these belief systems and ideologies and just resting into what IS. Also it seems to me that you never really understood the teaching of the Eastern teachings, if you had you would have known that they say the very things that Jesus supposedly said, in fact it has been proven that all that Jesus said was stolen from many other scriptures long before Jesus ever existed. I don't want to carry on arguing over beliefs but with your belief you can make life of others confusing and leaving them never knowing of their true SELF.
i have to agree...

[DivineLove]

Hi DivineLove, for one thing I don't have beliefs, also I or apparently I also have disappeared into pure Awareness which is labeled Enlightenment, you say that you are Self-realized ?, I find this odd, why would you be Self-Realized and still trying to find God through Jesus ?. Enlightenment is doing away with all these belief systems and ideologies and just resting into what IS. Also it seems to me that you never really understood the teaching of the Eastern teachings, if you had you would have known that they say the very things that Jesus supposedly said, in fact it has been proven that all that Jesus said was stolen from many other scriptures long before Jesus ever existed. I don't want to carry on arguing over beliefs but with your belief you can make life of others confusing and leaving them never knowing of their true SELF.

Psychoslice,

Being immersed in pure awareness, is a place you can live out of. Many people do.
This is as far as this natural practice will take you.

If you have never felt God's Love, than you cannot know how empty pure awareness is, by comparison.
This is why you think that I don't understand the Eastern stuff.

Self-Realization, is nothing.
If you yourself, are Self-Realized, then you must know, that there is nothing really significant about it. "Before Enlightenment, chop wood, carry firewood. After Enlightenment, chop wood, carry firewood."
Pure Awareness is calm, serene, distilled. There is a natural peace that can be found from this practice.

Forming a relationship with God is on a whole other level.
Praying, receiving from God, His Divine Love, into your soul.
This is the Highest form of spirituality.
Connecting with the most powerful Being in all of existence, and then receiving His Love.

Nothing can compare to God's Love.

But you cannot know exactly what I mean, because as you said, you don't have any beliefs. Hopefully that may change, over time.

God's Divine Love, is not a belief. It is a practice, which you engage in by praying to God. The Holy Spirit delivers God's Divine Love into your soul. You feel it. Your behavior changes, your outlook on life changes.
When you don't have the Father's Love, you feel that also.

I did not believe either Psychoslice. But then I came across these teachings, followed the instructions, on how to seek God's Love, to flow into my soul, as taught by Jesus, and the results, are far greater and more rewarding, than any natural practice can bring.

Stay immersed in pure awareness. Stay where ever you please. Whatever makes you happy, whatever feels true for you! :smile:

But don't make the mistake of thinking that you can ascend to the Highest Heavens, or reach your full spiritual potential, without forming a relationship with God.

In your quest for the Greatest Attainment, God cannot be bypassed.
It is just not possible.

So if you have attained to somewhere, and it does not involve God, then you can be certain, that it is not the Highest Attainment.
Merely a natural one.

Realizing the Self, is realizing nothing. You realize that, which has always been present, moment to moment, naturally present, always rooted in the present moment of now.

Forming a relationship with God, is the beginning of Eternal Life.

[Shabda]

Psychoslice,
Being immersed in pure awareness, is a place you can live out of. Many people do.
This is as far as this natural practice will take you.

If you have never felt God's Love, than you cannot know how empty pure awareness is, by comparison.
This is why you think that I don't understand the Eastern stuff. ... Jesus isnt necessary for this, it's fine if this way works for you, but Jesus has no copyright on the state of consciousness or God, and all eastern paths are not "natural" ones only...

[psychoslice]

I;m sorry DivineLove but you miss the point all together, Self, or inner Being is what you call God, Gods love is who I AM, there is no God sitting somewhere in the sky waiting to dish out love to everyone who ask, we are love, love is not an emotion, that is secondary to true LOVE. I don't think you really know what it is to be so called Awakened ?, but thats fine its not a race.
In case you don't understand beliefs are only concepts, their our perception of what we believe to be, the belief in God means nothing but to enter God or pure Being is to be that, God, or LOVE whatever you want to call it, because whatever you do call it, thats not what it is. But I can see you are immersed in your beliefs and you are trying to spread that belief, so there is nothing anyone could ever say that you, that you will give at least some thought to. I do hope you can find what you are after and in the end there is no such thing as Enlightenment, so it doesn't really matter what you do, or don't do.:hug3:

[002 Cents]

Am I the only person who finds it absurd that the entire intro to this thread is a quote from a book, described as the "Channeled Writings of Jesus"?

[psychoslice]

Am I the only person who finds it absurd that the entire intro to this thread is a quote from a book, described as the "Channeled Writings of Jesus"?
Yep, just another belief system to add to the already multitude, just take your pick who's right or wrong, or just forget the lot and do it for your SELF.:smile:

[DivineLove]

Am I the only person who finds it absurd that the entire intro to this thread is a quote from a book, described as the "Channeled Writings of Jesus"?

I don't think you're the only person who would feel that way.

Most people have no problems with dismissing something, without even bothering to read the teachings themselves.

Far easier, to simply dismiss it, than to actually read into it, to evaluate it based on the Wisdom being presented.

You've labeled something absurd, but you have not taken the time to examine the contents.

[DivineLove]

Yep, just another belief system to add to the already multitude, just take your pick who's right or wrong, or just forget the lot and do it for your SELF.:smile:

In seeking the SELF, you will find just that.
The Self.
Nothing more, nothing less.

All the Eastern practices, focus primarily on consciousness work.

You will find very little on the subject of your soul.

Consciousness, when compared to the mind, pure awareness, is
a place that transcends the mind. It is a greater attainment, far more
peaceful and steady. Timeless. All of this is good.

But working on the level of consciousness, and working on the
level of soul, are 2 very different things.

Forming a relationship with God, this is the beginning of Highest Form of Spirituality.

You can choose not to engage God. You can practice and work on any level that you desire.

I think an Atheist, by comparison to someone who follows Eastern beliefs, is far less diluted.

Between the belief that there is no God, and the belief that you can attain to God hood, through Self-Realization. Through your own efforts.
The first belief is less damaging.

Better that I don't believe in God, than assume that I can somehow attain to His level, through Self-Realization.

The first belief is one born of ignorance, of simply not knowing. The second, is one of utter delusion.

But we are free to believe what we choose. You have shared your beliefs, and I have shared mine. :smile:

They do not match, so let us agree to disagree, for the time being. Nothing further will be gained from speaking, except to back up our respective viewpoints.

In light of a stalemate, let us move onward on our journey!:hug3:

[GentleStrength]

I did read the OP and some of the ideas presented there just didn't work for me, I certainly have nothing against them if they work for you and help you to be who you wish to be. I will find my truths in different sources and material.

Thank you for sharing!

[psychoslice]

Yes we shall, but it doesn't worry me one bit, as I said I don't have stupid beliefs systems, there is no god, there is no soul, there is just what IS, whatever you add is not what IS. be well with your beliefs system my friend.:hug3:

[hybrid]

The first belief is one born of ignorance, of simply not knowing. The second, is one of utter delusion.:hug3:
i think its the other way around. god is a delusion and self is grounded.

when you work with your own consciousnesses, everything is self-evident and self veriafiable. it's like its your own truth and your own experience. no belief is required so there is no self delusion, just coming to terms with what life is to offer to you.

on the other hand, how can you even accept the channeled message unless by sheer blind faith? yes there can be nuggets of wisdom there but to sell it by a certain person who claimed to be jesus that lived 2k years ago is just what the stuff of mythical belief system is all about.

.

[andrew g]

I think I might possibly kind of get what you, Divine Love, are saying, however I dont think you actually achieved self-realization through the advaita path. I think there are many in the world who think they are self-realized that also are pretty barren of love and their heart's remain closed, but I dont think they are self-realized. They have understood the truth without actually actualizing it. An easy trap to fall into. In full actualization or realization the heart is open to Love, the heart is open to Rejoicing, the heart is open to Celebration.

What I see you doing Divine Love is working at actualization through praying to Creator. Which is absolutely fine. I also still work at actualization and opening my heart to Love, and occasionally say a prayer but am more likey to pull an angel card for guidance.

Personally, I would say God is constituted of Creator, Created and Creation. The Holy Trinity basically (in different words), but the 3 aspects of the Trinity are not separate from each other. So I would say that yes, its all God, and therefore we are God, but there is still a 'Creator'. A Source.

[3dnow]

I think I might possibly kind of get what you, Divine Love, are saying, however I dont think you actually achieved self-realization through the advaita path. I think there are many in the world who think they are self-realized that also are pretty barren of love and their heart's remain closed, but I dont think they are self-realized. They have understood the truth without actually actualizing it. An easy trap to fall into. In full actualization or realization the heart is open to Love, the heart is open to Rejoicing, the heart is open to Celebration.

What I see you doing Divine Love is working at actualization through praying to Creator. Which is absolutely fine. I also still work at actualization and opening my heart to Love, and occasionally say a prayer but am more likey to pull an angel card for guidance.

Personally, I would say God is constituted of Creator, Created and Creation. The Holy Trinity basically (in different words), but the 3 aspects of the Trinity are not separate from each other. So I would say that yes, its all God, and therefore we are God, but there is still a 'Creator'. A Source.

What is God, who creates the creator? Why stick with this God? Who needs it? It is just a theory. Even as a theory, it doesn't explain anything. It is all in your mind.

(not personal andrew :smile:)

3dnow

[andrew g]

What is God, who creates the creator? Why stick with this God? Who needs it? It is just a theory. Even as a theory, it doesn't explain anything. It is all in your mind.

(not personal andrew :smile:)

3dnow

God is Creator, Created and Creation. Nothing creates the Creator. We could equally call it Awareness, Consciousness and Expression. Or Formless, Form and Forming. It really doesnt matter. In the end, I actually think its the only logical way of explaining 'This'.

[3dnow]

God is Creator, Created and Creation. Nothing creates the Creator. We could equally call it Awareness, Consciousness and Expression. Or Formless, Form and Forming. It really doesnt matter. In the end, I actually think its the only logical way of explaining 'This'.
It doesn't explain anything. It is just a belief. Because you want to believe that. I don't see how we can pretend to understand the creation. We really have no idea.

Hawking says "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing". You have an idea what he is talking about? I personally don't. What is the relationship between gravity and creation?

The fact that we are divine beings doesn't necessarily mean there is a God.

3dnow

[andrew g]

It doesn't explain anything. It is just a belief. Because you want to believe that. I don't see how we can pretend to understand the creation. We really have no idea.

Hawking says "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing". You have an idea what he is talking about? I personally don't. What is the relationship between gravity and creation?

The fact that we are divine beings doesn't necessarily mean there is a God.

3dnow

Equally its a belief that there is no God, or that there might be a God. What I see is that without something infinite and formless and unlimited there would be no reference for something finite that has form and is limited.

Hawking is conceptualizing a Trinity of Nothingness, Universe and Creation. Its the same thing.

'God' to me is just a word that captures the totality of the Trinity. In the end we go with what resonates and with what seems logical. The question 'why is Life' can be answered. The question 'why is God' cannot be (at least not by me). Life is not the mystery. God is.

[3dnow]

Equally its a belief that there is no God, or that there might be a God. What I see is that without something infinite and formless and unlimited there would be no reference for something finite that has form and is limited.

Hawking is conceptualizing a Trinity of Nothingness, Universe and Creation. Its the same thing.

'God' to me is just a word that captures the totality of the Trinity. In the end we go with what resonates and with what seems logical. The question 'why is Life' can be answered. The question 'why is God' cannot be (at least not by me). Life is not the mystery. God is.

You already propose an explanation to creation (God), then call it a mystery. There is no God necessarily.

3dnow

[andrew g]

You already propose an explanation to creation (God), then call it a mystery. There is no God necessarily.

3dnow

Not quite....what I proposed is that the reason for 'what is happening' can be explained. The reason for 'what is' I cannot explain. I have no idea. Yet neither do I feel the need to come up with an explanation. The most I can say is....it just 'is' (the 'it' being 'God')

[Chrysaetos]

People think they know who Jesus was and what he did, because they read a few gospels and some New Agey material.

The truth is that even the gospels in the New Testament disagree about who Jesus was and what he did.

We are all speculating..

[ccy]

We are all speculating..Not sure how necessary it is to point that out in an open discussion like this. Unless one is a religious or spiritual fundamentalist, your observation here is entirely understood.

[Royalite]

Psalm 82

5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.”



And

"Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law [in Psalm 82:6], "I said, 'You are gods'"? If He [God] called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming," because I said, "I am the Son of God"?'" (John 10:34-36)

And

So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. (Genesis 1:27)


Jesus wanted us to be aware of our who we are. He wanted us to WAKE UP and see this. He was trying to show us our REAL nature and REAL potential. Yes, he is the son of God but so are you and me and everyone else. Many don't act like it though...

[Royalite]

And much of what was said there does resonate with me Divine. Sometimes when I read the Bible I think, "Okay...where's the rest of this passage?" or "Where does this tie in with right now?" or "What's the deeper message?" Anyways, truth does resonate on many levels.

[DivineLove]

And much of what was said there does resonate with me Divine. Sometimes when I read the Bible I think, "Okay...where's the rest of this passage?" or "Where does this tie in with right now?" or "What's the deeper message?" Anyways, truth does resonate on many levels.
Dynamist, I like your point of view.
And always welcome your comments. :smile:

I find it somewhat contradictory, that those who do not believe in God or a soul, come and write on a Christian channel/thread.

We have many people, with different points of views, but where we align, the common ground between all Christians, is the belief in God, the soulful prayers made to the Father, which are answered, by the Holy Spirit, in the form of His Divine Love, the Father's Love.

We may have different opinions on a few things, but most Christians, understand that in-dwelling within them, is a soul.
And through that soul, we may commune with God. As best illustrated by Jesus. Where he teaches the rest of humanity, how we too can achieve Christ, to have our souls filled with God's Divine Substance, a new soul is born, a Divine Soul.

When I spent a decade in the Eastern practices, I just did not understand anything about who or what God is. I did not know that Christians were exercising their soul capacity, to reach out and receive Love from the Father. That was very unclear to me. And I too thought it was more belief, and dogma.
I did not "buy" into it.

The great change for me, came when I came across these teachings. These channeled teachings, by Jesus and the Celestials.

Many people point out, that none of the material is verifiable.
This is true, until you actually start praying for God's Divine Love.
Then something tangible happens.
When you receive God's Love, Christianity begins to encompass more than Faith, and moves well into Practice.
God's Divine Love is not a belief, it is literally His Love, poured into our souls, through His Holy Spirit.
Until a soul experiences this, other practices, will seem spiritual. Will seem significant.
God has created our souls, in this way, so that when we come to find His Divine Love, everything else will pale by comparison.
Christians, who commune with the Father, know exactly what I am referring to.
It is a living part of their lives. A living practice.

The atheist, will not have any knowledge of this Great Love, and when one is unaware, they naturally have great doubts about the existence of God. The soul also, remains a mystery. Because to the atheist, up till that point, the soul faculties are not at all exercised. A relationship with God has not as of yet, been formed.

They conclude, that there must not be a God. None that they are aware of.
And as for the soul.
Who can see that?
And yet, every Christian knows, that the soul definitely exists within them, and is the deepest part of them, through which we commune with God.

I have spent a great deal of time, with many practices. I've read many books.

Christianity is most advanced, and clearly illustrated path to God. It reaps the Greatest Spiritual Rewards. Eternal Life, God's Very Substance, His Divine Substance inflowing and forever a part of your soul.
There is no other practice, that comes close to God's Divine Love.
Taught by the most advanced soul, to have ever existed, Jesus of Nazareth.

No one understands God, the way that Jesus does. It showed in his teachings 2000 years ago. It shows present day, in the channeled teachings that I have found. Same author. Same teachings. Still pointing to the Great Love of Our Holy Father.

[Miss Hepburn]

I've actually been busy reading the channelled writings of Jesus, and many others, James, Samuel...as in, I'm on page 135 now from the books Divine Love talks about.

[DivineLove]

I've actually been busy reading the channelled writings of Jesus, and many others, James, Samuel...as in, I'm on page 135 now from the books Divine Love talks about.
You are my blessed brother, Divine Love. Miss H, I love you! :hug3:

God Bless your soul. :hug2:

You're going to take heat, for siding with these "channeled" teachings.

Don't you know, that this material you're reading, must surely be non-sense?

Is Jesus and these Celestial Spirits, really writing us anything of value?
Dispensing any High Truths?

And are we REALLY to believe, that this is the same Jesus of Nazareth, that walked the hills of Israel, spreading his teachings, 2000 years ago?

How can you be sure?

In deed, one can only know, if they venture to look.

I love every single one of my brothers and sisters in Christ. Even if they dismiss this material. I still love all of you.:hug2:

But if you were to look, to actually see, into what is being revealed. The place from which these revelations are coming from, the depth of the wisdom, is unmistakable.

I wish more people, would understand, that Jesus, is not some religious figure, past tense.
He is a living spirit. In charge of the Celestial Kingdom, the Celestial Heavens, just as God had decreed he would be.

This soul, has dispensed these teachings. Although they are for everyone, Christians in particular, will respond most strongly to this source and wisdom.

As surely as you know that God Loves you, know that there are High Spirits, at the head of which, is Jesus, making efforts, to answer the deepest questions that our souls have.

They are well aware of the gap in our knowledge, when it comes to spiritual realms, the afterlife, the destiny of the human soul.

They are living spirits, the Highest in God's Heavens, and what they teach, you will not find in any other book.

I promise you, from the deepest part of me.

All Christians need to see these teachings. They are the most comprehensive explanations, of God, God's Attirbutes, the soul, soul development, the natural spheres, the Celestial Heavens, soul mates, the afterlife, that you will ever find.

So much is explained here, that it has made me abandon all the prior paths that I was walking, and practice, just is this. Praying to the Father, for His Divine Love,to fill my soul, with His Divine Substance. His Divine Essence.

This is all I practice. This is considered the Highest Practice, that a human soul can engage in. God's Divine Love, His Eternal Substance, is God's Greatest Gift to the human soul. There is nothing greater.

Miss H, I was right when I first said this, you truly are, a rare gem indeed!
God's Love and Blessings to each and everyone of you!:hug3:

Anyone who is interested in reading this material, feel free. The book can be downloaded at the following link:

http://www.truths.com/formats.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .truths.com%252Fformats.htm)

[002 Cents]

DivineLove- Before someone accepts what one has written as truth with the claim they are the "Channeled writings of Jesus". It is a good idea to get a handle on the Mental state of the person making the claim.

It is not unreasonable that they should ask questions. Is this someone trying to start a cult? Is this someone with a God Complex?

__________________________________________________ ____________

That said, here is what I have found on the Alleged Author of this book:

A link to what is declared a Statement of James Edward Padgett Bear in mind this site has an agenda.
http://www.truthforallpeople.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93&Itemid=58 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.truthforallpeople.com%2525252525252Findex.ph p%2525252525253Foption%2525252525253Dcom_content%2 5252525252526amp%2525252525253Bview%2525252525253D article%25252525252526amp%2525252525253Bid%2525252 525253D93%25252525252526amp%2525252525253BItemid%2 525252525253D58)

This site also came up when I Googled the author http://divinelove (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2F%2525252525253Cb%2525252525253Edivinelove%252525 2525253C%2525252525252Fb%2525252525253E).org/ This link will take you to a page for the "Foundation Church of the New Birth". Hate to make assumptions here but I see a connection and an angle.

Now, for an Author who died in 1923 it seems highly unlikely this was published, released and turned into a religion of his own accord.

Further more, as if accepting that Jesus may actually communicate to the world through a psychic wasn't questionable enough, you have this site http://new-birth.net/misc/padgett.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fnew-birth.net%25252Fmisc%25252Fpadgett.htm)

Which will outline at the bottom the timeline in which these things were written and by whom? Psychics proclaiming to have channeled Mr. Padgett...

"Communications received after his death.

March 21st, 1923 - Mr. Padgett passed into the spirit world on March 17th, 1923; this first message was received through Eugene Morgan four days later. And the second message followed about a month later.

March 9th, 1991 -The next important message that was received by Eugene Morgan from Mr. Padgett was about two years later on July 1st, 1925. July 1st, 1925 James Padgett Editing Volume II.

October 21st, 1997 - Personal Message.
March 27th, 2000 - Promoting the Love among us.
May 21st, 2006 - The Second Coming.
June 3rd, 2006 - The Good Stuff.
June 10th, 2006 - Love's power to erase error.
November 11th, 2006 - Mr Padgett's early Life.
February 10th, 2008 - In the peace of Divine Love.

The history of the various churches that were founded is set out on this page (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fnew-birth.net%25252Fmisc%25252Fchurch_history.htm)."

Now to confirm the credibility of this Eugene Morgan and a Dr. Stone who went on to write the above listed publications and formulate a religion around them... to bad there is no way to establish the identity of either of them.
In conclusion absurd maybe wasn't the right term to use, but it remains most certainly questionable.

[hybrid]

if you read dante's inferno , you feel like you're in hell. you can even actually smell the sulfur smoke.

you read the death and passion of jesus christ and you feel all the love of god and compassion and all those gratitude feelings

you read how to be rich or think positive books and you feel like you can do anything.

and all these feelings even the heavenly ones can be evoke in a weekend seminar for 500 usd.:tongue:

.

[DivineLove]

DivineLove- Before someone accepts what one has written as truth with the claim they are the "Channeled writings of Jesus". It is a good idea to get a handle on the Mental state of the person making the claim.

It is not unreasonable that they should ask questions. Is this someone trying to start a cult? Is this someone with a God Complex?

__________________________________________________ ____________

That said, here is what I have found on the Alleged Author of this book:

A link to what is declared a Statement of James Edward Padgett Bear in mind this site has an agenda.
http://www.truthforallpeople.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=93&Itemid=58 (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.spiritualforums.com%2525252525252Fvb%2525252 525252Fredir.php%2525252525253Flink%2525252525253D http%252525252525253A%252525252525252F%25252525252 5252Fwww.truthforallpeople.com%252525252525252Find ex.php%252525252525253Foption%252525252525253Dcom_ content%2525252525252526amp%252525252525253Bview%2 52525252525253Darticle%2525252525252526amp%2525252 52525253Bid%252525252525253D93%2525252525252526amp %252525252525253BItemid%252525252525253D58)

This site also came up when I Googled the author http://divinelove (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com %2525252Fvb%2525252Fredir.php%2525253Flink%2525253 Dhttp%252525253A%252525252F%252525252Fwww.spiritua lforums.com%252525252Fvb%252525252Fredir.php%25252 5253Flink%252525253Dhttp%25252525253A%25252525252F %25252525252Fwww.spiritualforums.com%25252525252Fv b%25252525252Fredir.php%25252525253Flink%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A%2525252525252F%252525252525 2Fwww.spiritualforums.com%2525252525252Fvb%2525252 525252Fredir.php%2525252525253Flink%2525252525253D http%252525252525253A%252525252525252F%25252525252 5252F%252525252525253Cb%252525252525253Edivinelove %252525252525253C%252525252525252Fb%25252525252525 3E).org/ This link will take you to a page for the "Foundation Church of the New Birth". Hate to make assumptions here but I see a connection and an angle.

Now, for an Author who died in 1923 it seems highly unlikely this was published, released and turned into a religion of his own accord.

002 Cents,

I sense a strong integrity and character from your person.

I appreciate the introspection that you have provided into this material.
I've visited all the links that you posted. I checked everything out.

Dr. Stone and Eugene Morgan, were associates of Mr. Padgett. They were his friends. Although they testify to the accuracy of these messages, they in no way formed any kind of religion, or cult.

These were Christians, who to the best of their knowledge, through their God given faculties, supported and testified to the accuracy of Mr. Padgett's transmissions. Nothing more.

No efforts were made to form any kind of new religion. No one, who would read this material, would have any agenda in mind, except to maybe form a relationship with God. :smile:

Let us speak frankly.
There are 2 very plausible scenarios here. Each equal in merit.

1) Mr. Padgett was a medium, who had by the Grace of God, made contact with Jesus and other High Spirits, from the Celestial Heavens.
OR
2) Mr. Padgett's material is pure fiction.
Either way, you cannot fully prove nor disprove this man's work.

I will tell you, in all honesty, that when I first came across these claims, this material, I was EXTREMELY skeptical.
My mind, was on full alert. The thoughts that were going through my mind, were "Are you kidding? These are fairy tales. Are you really going to believe THIS guy actually had a rapport with Jesus???"
My mind, was not at all "open", and I was very dismissive of the material, in retrospect.
But something within me, told me, "Keep reading." "Look and see if you can sense a Wisdom, that goes well beyond the human capacity for fiction, or imagination."
I kept reading, very skeptical, but not far into the book, I remember feeling and knowing, "My God, this is just WAY out there. No human being can fabricate this material. It's just not on our level. Not even on our best day."
That is what I connected with. I sensed a much Higher Wisdom behind these teachings. Much Higher, than I have ever encountered in any other material. Except, as I look at it now, in the Bible.

If we speak openly, and honestly, none of us really know FOR SURE, what will happen, upon death. No one here, has seen Heaven. Though I am sure people have had out of body experiences, and all kinds of incredible things happen.

But in truth, even if we're referring to the Bible.
One will not know FOR CERTAIN, until we move into spirit.
Then, all will be revealed.
Quite plainly. Then, we would know more, about the certainty of spirituality, of spirit realms, Heaven, etc.
Until then, none of us, truly know for sure.
None of us.
Many of us have deep beliefs, we have strong Faith. But no one here has any experience of living in the afterlife.

002 Cents, I don't think anyone can prove or disprove anything.

Christianity, is part Faith, but largely also comprised of practice, of receiving from the Holy Father, His Divine Love, His Love. This aspect is not a matter of Faith. This is something any Christian, who has felt God's Love, can confirm. It is real.

I think with these teachings, it is up to the individual, to assess how True it feels.

I can speak from my own experience, and say that before these teachings, I did not believe in God, or in Jesus, or Heaven, or the afterlife.
I was deep into Eastern religion.
After reading what Jesus teaches, in these books, it made me re-evaluate everything. He very quickly recommends that a person begin to pray to the Holy Father for His Divine Love.

I found all this material so agreeable with my own sensibilities, that I thought, "Hey, why not pray?" "Jesus is telling me to do so. He says it will yield a result. What have I got to lose?"

Up until then, I had never really prayed to God. Not very often. Only when things were chaotic, and even then, not very deeply or sincerely.

God's Love, came pouring in. And I have been praying, every day, since then, and will continue to pray every day, for as long as I live.

002 Cents, I hope that you can sense that I am being open and honest. And that while I do agree with you, 100%, any claims made, by any individual, to have made contact with Jesus, should be questioned thoroughly.

That I detect no agenda whatsoever. On anyone's part. Except in spreading the teachings of Jesus, and helping people come closer to God's Love, the Father's Divine Love.

I like your frame of mind 002 Cents, whether you believe this material or not. You've got a really good vibe about you.

I am glad to have had this dialogue with you. :smile:

[hybrid]

and i'm a kill joy. hehe

this great spirit is here right now among us.
in plain view and not hidden,
this is the miracle. this is what makes it awesome.
it's the gift and grace.

it is not in some far away unreachable place
where only a few blessed individuals are privilege to know.


this is the good news!!!!!


.

[DivineLove]

if you read dante's inferno , you feel like you're in hell. you can even actually smell the sulfur smoke.
you read the death and passion of jesus christ and you feel all the love of god and compassion and all those gratitude feelings
you read how to be rich or think positive books and you feel like you can do anything.and all these feelings even the heavenly ones can be evoke in a weekend seminar for 500 usd.:tongue:
Hybrid. :smile:
Read the post that I wrote to 002 Cents. And maybe share some of your thoughts as well.

I really like some of the observations you've made. They're quite accurate.
How do you feel about actually reading some of the book?
To sense any Truth?

I was saying to 002 Cents, anyone who claims to have made a rapport with Jesus, this is something you have to question thoroughly.
This is no small claim.

But in the end, unless you read it for yourself, and gauge it with your own faculties, you will not know.
I was extremely skeptical, but nevertheless, quite curious.
That is my nature. I probe into things. I don't just blindly follow or believe.
I had to know, if this was real. And while on a mental level, I was very dismissive, on a much deeper level, I was really overwhelmed with the Wisdom that I was reading. REALLY overwhelmed.

Things that just blew my mind. Literally, just blew me away.

It is like the wind. We cannot see it, or grab a hold of it. But we most certainly feel its effects.
This is the only way, that you will know if this is True or not. Is in this way. From within. Your internal wisdom, will tell you.
I can't do much more, than what I have done, which is share something that has had a very powerful impact on me.
But beyond this, I can do very little.
I have no authority. I am just like everyone else that is here.
We all have, very deep questions.

Every one of us, is seeking for Truth. For answers.
I've never come across anything else, that I have felt to be more true, than these teachings. No other book, has answered so many of the deepest spiritual questions, that I had.
So I share them. Because they are significant for me. They have had a significant impact on my life. On everything.
What do you think? :smile:

[psychoslice]

and i'm a kill joy. hehe

this great spirit is here right now among us.
in plain view and not hidden,
this is the miracle. this is what makes it awesome.
it's the gift and grace.

it is not in some far away unreachable place
where only a few blessed individuals are privilege to know.

this is the good news!!!!! You rule hybrid, yea yea.:D :smile: :D

[hybrid]

Hybrid. :smile:
Read the post that I wrote to 002 Cents. And maybe share some of your thoughts as well.

I really like some of the observations you've made. They're quite accurate.

How do you feel about actually reading some of the book?
To sense any Truth?....

So I share them. Because they are significant for me. They have had a significant impact on my life. On everything.
What do you think? :smile: 1. well since i haven't read it, i can't really comment about it. let me just say.
but i have read conversation with god. is it better than this book? what do you think?

2. and also what do you mean by the word jesus when you say you have a relationship with him? how is that possible ? how do you know it is jesus in the first place?

.

[Amilius777]

Well I haven't responded in a while. So here it goes.

When someone says Jesus is God or God was Jesus, this shouldn't be seen as God the Father/Mother. Jesus being the Son of God means that he and God shared the same divinity. So do we all in self-realization until we conquer sin (separation).

I confirm and agree to DivineLove and psycholice that God our Father dwells in the transcendent realm beyond all Creation as the Individual Creator and Sole Existence/Reality.

But God is so inconceivable and impossible to understand that God is also the Immanent Mother within Creation, the Vibration, the Power behind all manifestation. The Holy Spirit was actually spoken as "Her" by many early Church Fathers. Many scholars believe that when Jesus referred to Holy Ghost he referred to Shekinah (feminine aspect) because Holy Spirit is spoken of in the OT as Shekinah. And he possibly said "Her". The mere fact that Holy Spirit means Comforter is also equivalent to a Mother.

And the offspring or result of Father and Mother would be Son. Just as a Father through his Wife gives his child or son the same genes, the same everything, then God the Father passes on "godhood" or the "divinity" to his Son. The Father is born into manifestation through the Son. Thus the Wicca belief that the Mother Goddess's Husband becomes Her Son. Thus the Virgin Mary story that the Father sends her, the Holy Ghost impregnates her, and she births the Son are all intertwined.

That is why Christ is called The Only Begotten Son of God. It is the sole reflection of the Father, The sole manifestation. The Father can only manifest as a reflection/image in the physical world. Thus Jesus was God to the earth because he was a manifestation of the Father.

Jesus is only one individual. But Christ is the universal consciousness that can dwell in all individuals. Jesus as Christ was omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent. The same as God is, and Jesus was Love as God is. So why is it backwards to say Jesus is God?

To deny Jesus as God/Christ is to deny the soul as God/Christ in it's true nature. Thus you are denying and condemning the Holy Ghost. The unforgivable sin Jesus talked about. Because it is to condemn self. Not that sins are unforgivable, but because it can only be forgiven by your self! God has already forgiven you for all sins, but only can you forgive yourself for condemnation for Self.

[DivineLove]

1. well since i haven't read it, i can't really comment about it. let me just say.
but i have read conversation with god. is it better than this book? what do you think?

2. and also what do you mean by the word jesus when you say you have a relationship with him? how is that possible ? Hybrid,

I didn't say I have a relationship with Jesus.
The only relationship I have, is with God.
I was referring to questioning anyone's claim, when they claim to make rapport with Jesus. Like the author of this book, Mr. Padgett has done.
I have read all the Conversations with God Books, many years ago.
At the time, I thought they were quite good.

As the years passed, I leaned more into the Eastern stuff.
If I compare this book, to the Conversations with God series, I would favor this book.
But that's me. :smile:
Hybrid, I don't know.

If it sounds interesting, check it out. Take a look. You know my perspective on it. I like the material.
But I am sure not everyone will.

[002 Cents]

I appreciate your response.
I may do more reading at another time.

[DivineLove]

Well I haven't responded in a while. So here it goes.

When someone says Jesus is God or God was Jesus, this shouldn't be seen as God the Father/Mother. Jesus being the Son of God means that he and God shared the same divinity. So do we all in self-realization until we conquer sin (separation).

I confirm and agree to DivineLove and psycholice that God our Father dwells in the transcendent realm beyond all Creation as the Individual Creator and Sole Existence/Reality.

But God is so inconceivable and impossible to understand that God is also the Immanent Mother within Creation, the Vibration, the Power behind all manifestation. The Holy Spirit was actually spoken as "Her" by many early Church Fathers. Many scholars believe that when Jesus referred to Holy Ghost he referred to Shekinah (feminine aspect) because Holy Spirit is spoken of in the OT as Shekinah. And he possibly said "Her". The mere fact that Holy Spirit means Comforter is also equivalent to a Mother.

And the offspring or result of Father and Mother would be Son. Just as a Father through his Wife gives his child or son the same genes, the same everything, then God the Father passes on "godhood" or the "divinity" to his Son. The Father is born into manifestation through the Son. Thus the Wicca belief that the Mother Goddess's Husband becomes Her Son. Thus the Virgin Mary story that the Father sends her, the Holy Ghost impregnates her, and she births the Son are all intertwined.

That is why Christ is called The Only Begotten Son of God. It is the sole reflection of the Father, The sole manifestation. The Father can only manifest as a reflection/image in the physical world. Thus Jesus was God to the earth because he was a manifestation of the Father.

Jesus is only one individual. But Christ is the universal consciousness that can dwell in all individuals. Jesus as Christ was omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent. The same as God is, and Jesus was Love as God is. So why is it backwards to say Jesus is God?

To deny Jesus as God/Christ is to deny the soul as God/Christ in it's true nature. Thus you are denying and condemning the Holy Ghost. The unforgivable sin Jesus talked about. Because it is to condemn self. Not that sins are unforgivable, but because it can only be forgiven by your self! God has already forgiven you for all sins, but only can you forgive yourself for condemnation for Self.

Amilius.

I am going by 2 points of reference.
The bible, and Jesus's teachings, in Mr. Padgett's books.

In both of these books, Jesus is making reference to his Father.

If he was God, who could he possibly be referring to as the Father?



Nowhere, in the bible, does Jesus teach that he is God.

Nowhere in Jesus's teachings, through Mr. Padgett book, does he make claims to being God.
In this book, as you well know, because you claim to have read it, he makes it a point to abolish this false belief altogether.

God is God alone. There is no other Being, like God. This is what Jesus teaches.

[DivineLove]

I appreciate your response.

I may do more reading at another time.

Absolutely. Take your time.
Either way, I am glad to make your acquaintance.:smile:

[psychoslice]

Hi DivineLove, I wasn't going to come back to this thread but you are starting to talk or make more since than you did in the beginning of your thread, I thought you sounded a bit dogmatic, Yea that is true this man supposedly called Jesus was not God but he declared the father, he reflected the Father. Like a diamond with its many facets, each one reflecting the light so beautifully, but also in the end the diamond itself is light, as you and I also are light.

[hybrid]

The only relationship I have, is with God.

how do you know it's god and not just a projection of your own consciousness that you are relating to?

.

[psychoslice]

how do you know it's god and not just a projection of your own consciousness that you are relating to?

.
Yea this true, to have a relationship with God is really having a relationship with our SELF or our true SELF but by putting God separate from our SELF and saying that we are having a relationship is duality, you are separating what IS, to what isn't. You have become the anti-Christ again but of course if you are still in the mind or ego, then yes, you will believe you are having a separate relationship with this God.

[DivineLove]

Hi DivineLove, I wasn't going to come back to this thread but you are starting to talk or make more since than you did in the beginning of your thread, I thought you sounded a bit dogmatic, Yea that is true this man supposedly called Jesus was not God but he declared the father, he reflected the Father. Like a diamond with its many facets, each one reflecting the light so beautifully, but also in the end the diamond itself is light, as you and I also are light.

Psychoslice, you're always welcome to share your thoughts, impressions, feelings.

We will not always agree, but that does not mean that we cannot harmonize.:hug3:

I like your use of the word, reflect. Jesus definitely reflected all the Goodness of Our Holy Father. He also reflected His Divine Essence. I think much more so, than any other human being.
And through his teachings, we were shown how we can be closer to God. Close the way that Jesus was close. Referring to God, as the Father.
This is very personal.
This is not like the Old Testament, where God was perceived as vengeful and angry.

Can I ask you something, and please be completely honest?

If you have no beliefs, if you are immersed in pure awareness, why do you post on a Christian channel?

It is like me, when I was deep into the Eastern stuff, I stayed far away from religion. I never felt they mixed very well.

Is it that you enjoy interacting with new people, getting to know people?
Or are you seeking something, which your current practice is not fully satisfying?

Honestly, tell me what you think?

Because, with me, and the Eastern stuff, as I do not practice that anymore, I would not go to the Buddhist channel or the Taoist channel, and start posting there, as I know my beliefs and theirs are not going to mix very well.

[DivineLove]

how do you know it's god and not just a projection of your own consciousness that you are relating to?

.

Hybrid, may I inquire, are you a Christian?

Psychoslice, revealed yesterday, that he has no beliefs, at least not any religious ones.

[psychoslice]

Psychoslice, you're always welcome to share your thoughts, impressions, feelings.

We will not always agree, but that does not mean that we cannot harmonize.:hug3:

I like your use of the word, reflect. Jesus definitely reflected all the Goodness of Our Holy Father. He also reflected His Divine Essence. I think much more so, than any other human being.
And through his teachings, we were shown how we can be closer to God. Close the way that Jesus was close. Referring to God, as the Father.
This is very personal.
This is not like the Old Testament, where God was perceived as vengeful and angry.

Can I ask you something, and please be completely honest?

If you have no beliefs, if you are immersed in pure awareness, why do you post on a Christian channel?

It is like me, when I was deep into the Eastern stuff, I stayed far away from religion. I never felt they mixed very well.

Is it that you enjoy interacting with new people, getting to know people?
Or are you seeking something, which your current practice is not fully satisfying?

Honestly, tell me what you think?

Because, with me, and the Eastern stuff, as I do not practice that anymore, I would not go to the Buddhist channel or the Taoist channel, and start posting there, as I know my beliefs and theirs are not going to mix very well.
Hi, well as I said I don't believe in beliefs, but with that said i do see in all beliefs some truth, or what is good as a pointer. Like the story of Jesus, I don't know if this Jesus ever existed or not, it doesn't even matter, its just the story or what the story points too that has any relevance at all to what IS. So I come here to share this relevance to what IS, to those who maybe confused by religion, or I may knock Jesus down to our size, after all he has nothing that no other has, he was just a so called Enlightened being. But because of many years of having him up on a pedestal, so many believe that they can never get there, when in fact they are already there, its just their mind or ego that is keeping them from this Realization. Its all pretty simple and this is what I like to share, to let all know that you are already there, anything else is just another lie by the ego.

[andrew g]

DivineLove,

I resonate with some of what you are saying, but dont consider myself to be a Christian.

Im interested in how you see God, the Father. Do you see God as separate from Creation and Life? As some kind of 'figure'?

[Chrysaetos]

Dynamist, I like your point of view.
And always welcome your comments. :smile:

I find it somewhat contradictory, that those who do not believe in God or a soul, come and write on a Christian channel/thread.

We have many people, with different points of views, but where we align, the common ground between all Christians, is the belief in God, the soulful prayers made to the Father, which are answered, by the Holy Spirit, in the form of His Divine Love, the Father's Love.

We may have different opinions on a few things, but most Christians, understand that in-dwelling within them, is a soul.
And through that soul, we may commune with God. As best illustrated by Jesus. Where he teaches the rest of humanity, how we too can achieve Christ, to have our souls filled with God's Divine Substance, a new soul is born, a Divine Soul.

When I spent a decade in the Eastern practices, I just did not understand anything about who or what God is. I did not know that Christians were exercising their soul capacity, to reach out and receive Love from the Father. That was very unclear to me. And I too thought it was more belief, and dogma.
I did not "buy" into it.

The great change for me, came when I came across these teachings. These channeled teachings, by Jesus and the Celestials.

Many people point out, that none of the material is verifiable.
This is true, until you actually start praying for God's Divine Love.
Then something tangible happens.
When you receive God's Love, Christianity begins to encompass more than Faith, and moves well into Practice.
God's Divine Love is not a belief, it is literally His Love, poured into our souls, through His Holy Spirit.
Until a soul experiences this, other practices, will seem spiritual. Will seem significant.
God has created our souls, in this way, so that when we come to find His Divine Love, everything else will pale by comparison.
Christians, who commune with the Father, know exactly what I am referring to.
It is a living part of their lives. A living practice.

The atheist, will not have any knowledge of this Great Love, and when one is unaware, they naturally have great doubts about the existence of God. The soul also, remains a mystery. Because to the atheist, up till that point, the soul faculties are not at all exercised. A relationship with God has not as of yet, been formed.

They conclude, that there must not be a God. None that they are aware of.
And as for the soul.
Who can see that?
And yet, every Christian knows, that the soul definitely exists within them, and is the deepest part of them, through which we commune with God.

I have spent a great deal of time, with many practices. I've read many books.

Christianity is most advanced, and clearly illustrated path to God. It reaps the Greatest Spiritual Rewards. Eternal Life, God's Very Substance, His Divine Substance inflowing and forever a part of your soul.
There is no other practice, that comes close to God's Divine Love.
Taught by the most advanced soul, to have ever existed, Jesus of Nazareth.

No one understands God, the way that Jesus does. It showed in his teachings 2000 years ago. It shows present day, in the channeled teachings that I have found. Same author. Same teachings. Still pointing to the Great Love of Our Holy Father. Beliefs are beliefs. Nobody knows who Jesus was and what he did, it's just beliefs based upon books. In this huge universe I'm not going to believe in a ''Holy Father'' from the Middle East on this tiny planet. Theist, atheist, or agnostic...everyone can love another. You sound elitist.
Praying to God and getting an experience is not proof, as we focus our mind on our pre-conditioned beliefs in order to activate the desired result. Just as people experience angels, Krishnas, etc. People experience and feel what they want to believe in, if the desire is strong enough. It's as simple as asking yourself faithfully to dream about a certain thing. It's the power of the mind.

[ccy]

If you have no beliefs, if you are immersed in pure awareness, why do you post on a Christian channel?
Hybrid, may I inquire, are you a Christian?
Psychoslice, revealed yesterday, that he has no beliefs, at least not any religious ones.Not sure why you're going on about peoples' beliefs. I studied esoteric Christianity for close to 30 years. Does that make me a Christian, or an esoteric Christian, or just someone who studied something?

And while I sincerely appreciate many of your views and comments, a number of them also appear to be stuck in a kind of theologically dogmatic no-man's land. That's what the other "non-Christians and non-believers" appear to be pointing out as well.

[hybrid]

If it sounds interesting, check it out. Take a look. You know my perspective on it. I like the material.

But I am sure not everyone will.
and you know why? there is a point in one's spiritual journey when one lose all interests in all the books and teachings in the world.

this is the point when one have started looking inward and make his own investigation, never relying anymore in what others have to say specially about his own nature.

it's good to read other people's work only just to compare but not to believe in them anymore.

and i think this is what jesus wanted in his time when he went against the teachers and scholars of his time.

as to your inquiry, i was born (nominal) catholic then got born again (devout evangelical) for 20 years. now i tried not to have any labels. do you know that all various christians sects disown one another? i still do quote jesus and the bible from time to time, does it make me still a christian?
.

[Miss Hepburn]

You're going to take heat, for siding with these "channeled" teachings.

http://www.truths.com/formats.htm (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truths.com%2Fforma ts.htm)

Heat?

Like the burning in my heart that has increased since
I followed what these writings have said - -
"ask for Divine Love"?

I'm sorry I misspoke it's actually an exquisite pain always there now.
If I could unzip my chest for people to see...but it comes out of my eyes and in my hugs.

[Miss Hepburn]

Ah, there is a real problem with these writings though...
and you will think that I'm being extreme -but
I have to drink more, because I'm losing elecrolytes.





:redface:

[3dnow]

DivineLove,

I resonate with some of what you are saying, but dont consider myself to be a Christian.

Im interested in how you see God, the Father. Do you see God as separate from Creation and Life? As some kind of 'figure'?

Hi Andrew, can our minds imagine another kind of God (I mean the human looking biblical God)?

3dnow

[andrew g]

Hi Andrew, can our minds imagine another kind of God (I mean the human looking biblical God)?

3dnow

I think so. I use the concept but dont imagine a 'figure' as such. I think for many it can mean something along the lines of 'a force greater, or more powerful, than ourselves'. I also might say that 'God' is the totality of all that is.

Have you read Conversations with God 3dnow?

[3dnow]

I think so. I use the concept but dont imagine a 'figure' as such. I think for many it can mean something along the lines of 'a force greater, or more powerful, than ourselves'. I also might say that 'God' is the totality of all that is.

Have you read Conversations with God 3dnow?

Hi andrew, thanks. I realized that this is an important question for me and asked it in more detail in the "spiritual development" section. So I hope you can help me there!!

3dnow

[andrew g]

Hi andrew, thanks. I realized that this is an important question for me and asked it in more detail in the "spiritual development" section. So I hope you can help me there!!

3dnow

Cool. Im interested in the answers you get too, so will keep an eye on it.

[Amilius777]

As much as I see God as the transcendent Father, I usually pray to God as my Mother.

And when I pray to Her as my Mother I receive a better connection with the Divine.

I was stuck in jury duty two weeks ago and when I prayed to the Mother God "please let me get out of this hell! it sucks!" I took it back and said- "No! Let us ALL get out of here because these people have other things to take care of like kids and family. Let us leave early Mother God". Within an hour the jury director came in and told all 50 of us- "You can all go home, the cases were just solved" In a matter of an hour and half?! That is insane! I mean you can say coincidence but that was too much.

And it was the day that Daya Mata "Mother of Compassion", Yogananda's favorite female disciple died. Strange......

But anyways. The Divine Feminine needs to come back. We all know there is One Heavenly Father, we need to get the immanent Mother back. Scrap religion and all it's evils. I am sick of it. I feel far more attuned and welcomed into God's love when I enter a Zen store around incense, burning candles, and fountains pouring water through Buddhas and decor and sense the psychic side.

When I go into a Catholic Church I usually feel uncomfortable, claustrophobic, a feeling of being judged, paranoid of others thinking about me, and seeing a lot of hypocrites just going up to the Eucharist just to be saved in case they die tomorrow. A bunch of rubbish that should be thrown onto a dung heap. Don't get me wrong the bread and wine at Mass is suppose to be the "outward" or material manifested Divine Wisdom and Divine Love of Christ being consumed, Jesus' pure body and spirit. So that when you consume it in Mass, you meditate on it and awaken the Mind of Christ within. That is the purpose. Not to eat and drink Jesus everyday that is sick and bizarre. It is metaphorical.

But DIVINELOVE, I have been reading the stuff you gave me. I take a lot from it and use it. I believe in a lot of it. But I do not always side with Padgett, Cayce, or even Yogananda. First off Padgett converses with spirits and I am cautious with that, Cayce channeled a lot in his sleep and didn't even believe in anything he said, and Yogananda was a self-exalted yogi who saw sex created by Satan and said he knew the original teachings of Jesus and tried to show Jesus taught yoga (which is BULL) because Jesus' yoga was in his teachings, ministries, and his crucifixion. That was his yoga "union with God". So I take precaution with anything that flies out of the New Age or by some self-proclaimed prophet/medium.

[andrew g]

Yes, I agree, if the world is to know peace, the Divine Feminine needs to come back, and I think is coming back.

[SeaZen]

Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form. We are all God made manifest in human form. Jesus just did a much better job of it than we and he came here to show us how its done.

[SeaZen]

To Divine Love:
I agree that Jesus is not God however, what exactly does Jesus mean by "sin" as far as your book is concerned.
Please be very specific
Thanks
SeaZen

[DivineLove]

My friends,

I have endeavored to share something, which I find to be valuable.

Everyone will respond differently.

Some will discard it entirely.

A few, will find useful portions.

And yet for others, it will change and impact the very ground
of their spiritual understanding.

Given what I have learned, I felt that this was material
that spiritual people should take a look into.

We are very used to being taught by human beings. And
we are well acquainted with that level of knowledge, that level
of wisdom. All of us, exist, presently, on this plane.

These teachings, are unique, because they come from a much
Higher Plane than ours. The wisdom presented, will not sound
familiar, but will feel very profound. When compared to human
wisdom, and human understanding.

Sometimes I forget, my own skepticism, that I had, when I first
encountered these teachings. I am reminded of it, when people
react, much as I did, when someone claims to have actual teachings
from Jesus and the Celestial Spirits.

If you could understand, that there are much Higher Planes, than the
one we currently occupy, and that the spirits who live in those planes,
have a much deeper understanding on all matters spiritual.

Jesus, being the most advanced soul.

The more advanced the spirit is, the greater their teachings. And in this
book, we are taught by Jesus of Nazareth.
The knowledge he shares, is very unique, and honestly, quite rare.

I truly do hope that people will take the time to actually look,
and investigate the authenticity, for High Truths, if there are any.

God's Love and Blessings to All!:hug3:

[Neville]

A somewhat simple response to the thread title that Jesus is not God would seem to be who suggested that Jesus was God? we could have a conversation about God and indeed the inaccurate assesment that Jesus is the way to God. Incidentally that works on a basic psycological level. Any metaphor as a means to connecting with source is all good or all god depending on how you look at the situation.

It would appear that the creator made the creator in his own image. Or as some read it God making man in his own image. The way to God becomes clear in this matter. The way to God is in fact to be YOU.

Love and light Neville.

[DivineLove]

To Divine Love:
I agree that Jesus is not God however, what exactly does Jesus mean by "sin" as far as your book is concerned.
Please be very specific
SeaZen, respectfully. You have full access to this material. If you wish to learn what Jesus teaches about sin, present day, please, take the time and look. This is abundantly explained, in great detail.

Were I to quote it here, it would take up a whole page. (I looked it up, and it is not a short passage. Trust me. :smile:)

The link to the book is everywhere! It's in my posts, it's in my signature (that's been enabled).

I am not sure how effective that is, or how effective it has been, posting an entire excerpt from this book.

I think the only efficacy that remains, is in the act of discovering for one's self, reading for one's self, and then gauging it with our internal wisdom.

I've pointed to it, I've given it praise. I've contrasted the material. I've compared it.

In the end, the ones with the inner urge to look, they will surely look. And tho ones who are content in the knowledge they currently possess, will dismiss it all together.

I have done, as much as I can do, for a body of work, which I feel is important.

If I was selling something, or trying to get people to "covert" in some way, then maybe I'd push on.

But I am just a regular person, who has stumbled across some really unique teachings, which have changed my life tremendously.

It was in the spirit of love, and kinship, that I came here, intent only to share.

So I hope to have at least conveyed that much, with everyone that I have come across.
Love, and sincerity.

[psychoslice]

Hi Divinlove, you have stumbled across something that suites you but it doesn't mean that its for everyone else, maybe you see something in these teachings and that is great for you, but others may see the so called truth in other ares of teachings. my own truth comes from within my SELF, now I could put a name to that SELF and call it Jesus, Buddha or Micky Mouse, it doesn't matter, all truth is truth, there is only ONE Truth. You are seeing what you call truth from one angle, one facet, one book and that's all it is, just a small reflection of truth.

[Amilius777]

I agree that all Truth is One Truth. Both Buddha and Jesus preached the same exact things. Even though they were two different souls on different development.

The idea of God becoming fully human in the sense of Jesus is pretty fascinating to completely throw away. I think the "way" people see the incarnation of God in Jesus is a bit ridiculous.

Roman Catholicism/Orthodox Christianity says that God the Son, the Word came down from heaven and became a human in Mary's womb and assumed a human nature with a human soul but never lost his divine nature. Making him the God-Man.

This is all wonderful and lovely but how do we compare to to everyone else?

Technically the Son of God/Word are all souls who have come into flesh to grow or become self-realized. Where as Jesus is the soul who won his liberation/oneness in a past incarnation and when he entered the womb of Mary he did not lose his divine nature while assuming human nature again. Thus he was self-realized from the womb to the tomb. I think we can all easily agree that makes sense if you believe in reincarnation.

And thats the only different between Jesus and us. We all have a portion of Christ consciousness somewhere in us! For God's sake, we have a third eye and a seventh chakra that manifests the Divine Love/Christ. So Jesus would be the soul who was a complete/fully manifested self-realized incarnate Christ. Thus making him fully God but at the same time fully a human.

See I made everyone happy from Roman Catholics to New Agers!!!:hug3: lol just kidding.

[Amilius777]

I agree that all Truth is One Truth. Both Buddha and Jesus preached the same exact things. Even though they were two different souls on different development.

When Peter told Jesus someone else in town was healing through the power of Christ to warn others Jesus said he was doing the right thing and part of his Flock. When Jesus told the parable of the rich man who went to hell and said he didn't know anything about it, the angels questioned the rich man- "You have Abraham, Moses and the prophets right?! Why didn't you listen to them?"

Basically Jesus is saying he didn't go to India because they had Rama and Krishna (whether or not they existed), he didn't preach in Tibet because they have the Buddha, and he didn't preach to the Native Americans because they had a sincere relationship to the Other Side, the Earth, and the spiritual realm and harmonious living.
The only difference between Jesus and these other folk is that he was the ancient prophesied chosen one who would be born of the Hebrew People in the Middle East and bridge the gap between God and Man completely.
Not that he was better or more spiritual. Everyone has a purpose and function. Just like someone next door named James is a genius pianist and John next door is a brilliant painter. Why so? It is not a question of why, everyone has a purpose in life. I have brown eyes, my girlfriend has green.
Why? who knows maybe it has something to do with her spiritual personality.
It is all destiny and that each soul has a specific reason or purpose for everything.


Catholics vs. New Age-

The idea of God becoming fully human in the sense of Jesus is pretty fascinating to completely throw away. I think the "way" people see the incarnation of God in Jesus is a bit ridiculous.

Roman Catholicism/Orthodox Christianity says that God the Son, the Word came down from heaven and became a human in Mary's womb and assumed a human nature with a human soul but never lost his divine nature. Making him the God-Man.

This is all wonderful and lovely but how do we compare to to everyone else?

Technically the Son of God/Word are all souls who have come into flesh to grow or become self-realized. Where as Jesus is the soul who won his liberation/oneness in a past incarnation and when he entered the womb of Mary he did not lose his divine nature while assuming human nature again. Thus he was self-realized from the womb to the tomb. I think we can all easily agree that makes sense if you believe in reincarnation.

And thats the only different between Jesus and us. We all have a portion of Christ consciousness somewhere in us! For God's sake, we have a third eye and a seventh chakra that manifests the Divine Love/Christ. So Jesus would be the soul who was a complete/fully manifested self-realized incarnate Christ. Thus making him fully God but at the same time fully a human.

See I made everyone happy from Roman Catholics to New Agers!!!:hug3: lol just kidding.

[DivineLove]

I agree that all Truth is One Truth. Both Buddha and Jesus preached the same exact things. Even though they were two different souls on different development. Amilius,

Buddha and Jesus did not teach the same things.

Buddha does not claim to offer you any kind of connection to God, or knowledge of God.
His path, is one of Self-Realization.
There is nothing in his teachings that reflect his knowledge of our God.
He teaches a natural path, the path of Self-Realization.

What's incredible, is that people who subscribe to these teachings, somehow come to the conclusion, that this is on the same level as what Jesus was teaching.

Jesus, was not teaching about the Self, or any natural practice.
He was teaching us about how to commune with God.
Not how to tap into pure awareness.
His teachings, are the most advanced, because as a human soul, there has never been, and most likely will never be, someone so specifically designed, by God, to deliver God's Divine Truths to mankind.
Jesus taught the way to God. To his Very Substance, and how any of God's children can receive His Divine Love, His Divine Substance.

This level of teaching. Understanding of our God. Showing us a process of how we too can share in God's Eternal Gift, His Eternal Love, this is very different from the natural practices of a buddha, or any Eastern practitioner. Because for them, there does not appear to be anything outside of the Self.

(I'm going to look into the Papaji thing, as you're quite moved by all of it, so I want to take a closer look. And will do so. Thank you for sharing. :smile:)

It's incredible. Buddha does not mention God, or Divinity. And yet, many who practice Eastern ways, comes to the conclusion that they have achieved Divinity, or at-one-ment with God, through Self-Realization.

There are countless buddhas. Self-Realization is not a tremendous achievement. Any one who has reached this, will confirm, that it is not much to write home about.
There will always be teachers teaching on this level. For this natural path.

Very few, are the teachers, who teach of God's Divine Love, the Divine Path.

No other soul, in the history of mankind, understands our God, who is a very complicated Being, not a simple creature like us.

I don't think people quite understand how rare it is, for a human being to be so close to our God, so that he can in turn, direct the rest of us towards achieving that same closeness.

SeaZen. I don't agree with your statement, that we are all Divine, or God made manifest.

You are not God. Take my word for it. And neither am I. :smile:

If we were, we would not be striking keys on a plastic device, "exchanging" ideas on Truth.

[Amilius777]

Well of course we are not God in the sense of the Divine Creator, Being, Self-Existing I AM before all existence.

That is preposterous. But we were made in the image of the I AM, created in the spiritual essence of the I AM. So just as a father passes on the genes to the son, God the Father passes his spiritual essence unto the souls he creates from his being. Thus he did make us divine.

The divinity within us is waiting to be blossomed. Jesus' reference to the mustard seed refers to the soul blossoming into the Tree, awakened by the mind.

I agree with you that Jesus' path is higher than Buddha's because it goes far beyond "self-realization". But Jesus was trying to help other souls self-realize themselves as sons of God. But yes, I could be very much self-realized as say- "I am a son of God, we are the light of the world", blah blah, but until we have a personal relationship with God and have inner communion with God then can we blossom into real self-realization, being the higher self.

I think if you take the path of self-realization and God-communion you get what Jesus taught. He told everyone to realize themselves as sons of God but also have a direct relationship with the Father/Mother.

[Shabda]

personally, i think youve all missed It...

[psychoslice]

personally, i think youve all missed It...
He He, I love your little replies Shabda.:smile: :hug3:

[Shabda]

He He, I love your little replies Shabda.:smile: :hug3:
that one was just for you Psycho~!:D gotta spread those smiles you know....and besides that, i have no problems with Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, at all, just when someone claims him to be the only wayshower...on a spiritual scale , he was was not at all the highest, his teachings, while containing much truth, were quite incomplete...of course, that's just my little opinion, the rest of you carry on as you see fit...

[psychoslice]

that one was just for you Psycho~!:D gotta spread those smiles you know....and besides that, i have no problems with Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, at all, just when someone claims him to be the only wayshower...on a spiritual scale , he was was not at all the highest, his teachings, while containing much truth, were quite incomplete...of course, that's just my little opinion, the rest of you carry on as you see fit...
Yea I agree with you, why does this Jesus have first place ?, because of the Church that's why, what he said was all said long before him, all he really did was parroted what others before him have already said.

[Shabda]

Yea I agree with you, why does this Jesus have first place ?, because of the Church that's why, what he said was all said long before him, all he really did was parroted what others before him have already said.
many would disagree, but i know what you say is true...

[supernova]

Jesus is a human and not a God. Jesus is not a Chrstian and belongs to all. He is not a national but a universal enitity.

Jesus is an embodyment of love

[psychoslice]

Jesus is a human and not a God. Jesus is not a Chrstian and belongs to all. He is not a national but a universal enitity.

Jesus is an embodyment of love
I certainly agree with that but i think its the Christ that you mean, not Jesus ?.

[supernova]

I certainly agree with that but i think its the Christ that you mean, not Jesus ?.'

What is the difference?

[psychoslice]

'

What is the difference?
Well far as I know Jesus the man was no different than anyone else, he's whole message was about the Christ within us all, he just personalized it. Its also the same as the Buddha, that wasn't he's name, i think Guttanma or something like that was he's name, so he declared the Buddha nature as Jesus declared the Christ nature, or we could say the Christ Consciousness. To believe that they had something that you or i haven't, is coming from the mind body perspective.

[supernova]

Well far as I know Jesus the man was no different than anyone else, he's whole message was about the Christ within us all, he just personalized it. Its also the same as the Buddha, that wasn't he's name, i think Guttanma or something like that was he's name, so he declared the Buddha nature as Jesus declared the Christ nature, or we could say the Christ Consciousness. To believe that they had something that you or i haven't, is coming from the mind body perspective.

What made Jesus the Christ?

Buddha means awakened literally and figuratively.

we say Siddhartha, the Buddha - the awakened.

[psychoslice]

What made Jesus the Christ?

Buddha means awakened literally and figuratively.

we say Siddhartha, the Buddha - the awakened.
Realization made him the Christ, but also you have to understand that Jesus the man wasn't the Christ, he was just a mind body organism, so you could say also that he was the Awakened.

[hippocratie]

Merry Christmas

[GoldenBoy72]

Jesus is God in the flesh /thread

[Valus]

"I and my Father are one." Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?" The Jews answered him, saying, "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods?' If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest'; because I said, 'I am the Son of God?' If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him."

~ John 10:30-38

[Amilius777]

May I add,

that in no way is Buddha or Jesus' way greater than the other.

It just seems like the universal path that Jesus Christ created emphasized the inner communion of God and the divine love for all things. And Jesus personalized the One God or "Absolute"- Brahman/Father.

And Jesus did KNOW the Truth his whole life. I have read everything from Edgar Cayce to Yogananda to many other Yogis to Sylvia Browne to majority of other crazy new ager work, and majority of psychics see Jesus the Christ grander than Guatma Buddha. Why? It is the fact that Jesus gave up his body, mind, and soul on a cross for his people and reversed the cycle of life and resurrected himself from death and conquered everything.

Guatma was definitely filled with Christ Consciousness when he reached enlightenment and was destined to find the path to liberation for his people as someone who became self-realized.

But read Sri Yukteswar, a resurrected Christlike saint who when entering the astral worlds tells in Autobiography of a Yogi- "Christ won his freedom way before he was Jesus". And added by Yogananda - "Jesus became Christ-conscious in his lifetime as Elisha. So his incarnation as Jesus was an incarnation of the Son of God and was conscious of Divine Love even in the womb".

Its the fact that Jesus had a grander destiny than Buddha and the way they expressed the Christ Consciousness is what separates them.

Buddha, Jesus, Babaji, Sai Baba of Shirdi, Sri Yukteswar, Lahiri Mahayasa, Saint Francis, Saint Anthony, Saint Theresa of Avila, St. Therese Nuemann, and several others all express the one Universal Christ Consciousness, and all shared a different destiny.

God plays a different tune through each different instrument, but the same Song!

[supernova]

Everyone has a soul or God in himself or herself. Jesus too had a soul or God in himself. He was so kind so gentle, so pious that made him closer to God.

[bbr]

May I add,

that in no way is Buddha or Jesus' way greater than the other.

It just seems like the universal path that Jesus Christ created emphasized the inner communion of God and the divine love for all things. And Jesus personalized the One God or "Absolute"- Brahman/Father.

And Jesus did KNOW the Truth his whole life. I have read everything from Edgar Cayce to Yogananda to many other Yogis to Sylvia Browne to majority of other crazy new ager work, and majority of psychics see Jesus the Christ grander than Guatma Buddha. Why? It is the fact that Jesus gave up his body, mind, and soul on a cross for his people and reversed the cycle of life and resurrected himself from death and conquered everything.

Guatma was definitely filled with Christ Consciousness when he reached enlightenment and was destined to find the path to liberation for his people as someone who became self-realized.

But read Sri Yukteswar, a resurrected Christlike saint who when entering the astral worlds tells in Autobiography of a Yogi- "Christ won his freedom way before he was Jesus". And added by Yogananda - "Jesus became Christ-conscious in his lifetime as Elisha. So his incarnation as Jesus was an incarnation of the Son of God and was conscious of Divine Love even in the womb".

Its the fact that Jesus had a grander destiny than Buddha and the way they expressed the Christ Consciousness is what separates them.

Buddha, Jesus, Babaji, Sai Baba of Shirdi, Sri Yukteswar, Lahiri Mahayasa, Saint Francis, Saint Anthony, Saint Theresa of Avila, St. Therese Nuemann, and several others all express the one Universal Christ Consciousness, and all shared a different destiny.

God plays a different tune through each different instrument, but the same Song!Facinating post, Amillus. I've studied Christianity from an esoteric perspective for 2-3 decades, and I have to say I'm inclined to agree with your assessment. I don't however agree with your labeling Jesus as Christ ("Christ won his freedom way before he was Jesus."). Christ is merely a universal term meant to define a level/degree of consciousness/oneness. It is not a person or thing, nor is it some kind of unique rank that only one particular individual (Jesus) supposedly attained.

[peteyzen]

my view is this, jesus was an avatar, a descent of ther divine fully god conscious into a human body, not the same as us, we are going up, trying to regain our god consciousness. It is because of this that Jesus is considered superior to the buddha, who, amazing man tho he was, was just like us. If you read up about avatars you will appreciate the difference. Altho many hindus, mistakenly consider buddhaa to be an inca=rnation of vishnu, which he cant of been if you study hie story.

Blimey I went on a bit there, sorry, well it is xmas.

[GoldenBoy72]

Yeah Yeah you all saw the movie avatar now everythings an "Avatar".

[supernova]

my view is this, jesus was an avatar, a descent of ther divine fully god conscious into a human body, not the same as us, we are going up, trying to regain our god consciousness. It is because of this that Jesus is considered superior to the buddha, who, amazing man tho he was, was just like us. If you read up about avatars you will appreciate the difference. Altho many hindus, mistakenly consider buddhaa to be an inca=rnation of vishnu, which he cant of been if you study hie story.

Blimey I went on a bit there, sorry, well it is xmas.

You are wrong.

You never never never can say Jesus was better than the Buddha nor can you say the Buddha was superior to Jesus or Mohammad was better than Jesus or Jesus was superior to Mohammad. This is against the faith of another person. It is a matte of interfaith.

I am a Hindu by birth and yet I do not say I am just a Hindu and can not claim Hindu Gods are superior to Jesus, the Buddha or Mohammad. This sacrilege

[GoldenBoy72]

You are wrong.
You never never never can say Jesus was better than the Buddha, nor can you say the Buddha was superior to Jesus or Mohammad was better than Jesus or Jesus was superior to Mohammad. This is against the faith of another person. It is a matte of interfaith.

I am a Hindu by birth and yet I do not say I am just a Hindu and can not claim Hindu Gods are superior to Jesus, the Buddha or Mohammad. This sacrilege Yeah that idea completely misses the point of all the scriptures, Jesus never says anything about Buddha, Mohammed or Vishnu.
They do command that you follow God and God alone no other Gods.

[supernova]

There are many faiths, religions and all have their Gods, even there are pagans who too have their own Gods in many forms and shapes. You cannot say Jesus' ideas or what the Bible says is the only truth and the rest false.

There are not false Gods and false religions and false religions followers.

Pagans have many gods and so do Hindus have so many but that does not mean what Christianity is the one and only God

[Amilius777]

I usually go along with Yogananda and Yukteswar said that Jesus Christ and Babaji fully exemplified God more than anybody else in flesh, also due to the fact that they were "mahavatars", which means great incarnations. Incarnation of the Christ Consciousness, fully realized.

Where as Buddha who also attained Christ Consciousness, attained it in his life on earth. He is an ascended master, where as Jesus is an avatar. Gautama Buddha even differentiated a Buddha from a Bodhisattva and he was considered a Buddha. The other one is a soul who attained liberation in a previous lifetime but comes down to aid humanity.

Edgar Cayce said the same thing about Jesus in his trances as did Yogananda and Yukteswar that Jesus was an already perfected soul in previous lifetime, but descended again in human flesh to aid humanity towards Christ Consciousness.

And btw, BBR-

When I said Jesus the Christ, Christ is an office, or title of one embodying the Christ Consciousness. I never said it was limited to just Jesus. The Christ also came through Saint Anthony, Saint Theresa, and Saint Francis to rejuvenate Christianity and revive it's meaning. Same in India that the title of Christ was past down to Mahavatar Babaji who has taught many yogis to connect Christianity with Hinduism for a middle way. The Christ Spirit has been passed down through the ages.

As Edgar Cayce once said- "Christ is NOT a man! Jesus was the man! Christ the messenger, Christ in all ages! One in Adam, in Melchizedek, in Joshua, in Joseph, in Moses, in Jesus the Christ!"

[DivineLove]

I usually go along with Yogananda and Yukteswar said that Jesus Christ and Babaji fully exemplified God more than anybody else in flesh, also due to the fact that they were "mahavatars", which means great incarnations. Incarnation of the Christ Consciousness, fully realized.

Where as Buddha who also attained Christ Consciousness, attained it in his life on earth. He is an ascended master, where as Jesus is an avatar. Guatma Buddha even differentiated a Buddha from a Boddissivita (spell check) and he was considered a Buddha. The other one is a soul who attained liberation in a previous lifetime but comes down to aid humanity.

Edgar Cayce said the same thing about Jesus in his trances as did Yogananda and Yukteswar that Jesus was an already perfected soul in previous lifetime, but descended again in human flesh to aid humanity towards Christ Consciousness.

And btw, BBR-

When I said Jesus the Christ, Christ is an office, or title of one embodying the Christ Consciousness. I never said it was limited to just Jesus. The Christ also came through Saint Anthony, Saint Theresa, and Saint Francis to rejuvenate Christianity and revive it's meaning. Same in India that the title of Christ was past down to Mahavatar Babaji who has taught many yogis to connect Christianity with Hinduism for a middle way. The Christ Spirit has been passed down through the ages.

As Edgar Cayce once said- "Christ is NOT a man! Jesus was the man! Christ the messenger, Christ in all ages! One in Adam, in Melchizedek, in Joshua, in Joseph, in Moses, in Jesus the Christ!"


That is the correct understanding.

That Jesus is the man.

And Christ is the Divine Principle. God's Divine Love, filling the soul, making it a Divine Soul, making it at-one with the Father.

Jesus, was the first Christ.

Amilius, when you mention Moses, this is not correct.

Prior to Jesus, there were spiritual men, and men who played important roles in bringing certain truths.

But Jesus, was the first of his kind.

The first human being, to have become the Christ, while still in the flesh.

His knowledge of our God, and his teachings, which show us the way to God's Divine Love, these separate him, as the true son of God.

While all of us are children of God, none of us, no Babaji, no Buddha, no other living soul, has as much knowledge of our God, as Jesus does.

If you want to understand the Self. And all the natural fruits that a natural practice bring, follow Eastern ways. You will have a great understanding of the Self. And this will be the full extent of your knowledge.

If you want Eternal Life, if you want to be at-one with God, then follow Jesus's teachings, for they truly point the way to God's Divine Love, and to the Highest Heavens.

If you are unable to discern any difference between the son of God, and the rest of the teachers, that have come and gone.
Then most likely, you are practicing, one of these natural paths.

The path to God, is not a natural path. It is a Divine Path.

God is a Divine Being.

He shares His Divine Substance, with any of his children.
Regardless of race, creed, gender.
God gives and shares His Divine Love, with all.

But His Divine Substance, must be obtained through soulful prayer.

And it must be earned.

It is not lying there, dormant, inside of you, waiting for you to realize something.

There is not a single drop, as Jesus teaches in these books, of Divinity, anywhere, except within God.

And His Eternal Substance, His Divine Love, must be sought for, through earnest sincere prayer. Which is always answered.

It is not a "consciousness". It is not derived from some form of meditation.

Prayer is time spent, between your soul, and God, communing, being at-one.

There is no substitute nor replacement for this process.

And if you seek Eternal Life, God's Divine Substance, closely examine the teachings of Jesus, for he makes it very clear, and outlines the differences between natural practices, and this Divine Path. Which can only be obtained through your soul.

You cannot bypass God, in your quest for Eternal Life.

Christ is not a "consciousness", it is a living process, where the substance of your natural soul, is slowly replaced, by God's Divine Substance, thus making your soul divine, and capable of existing in the Highest Heavens.

Jesus became Divine, not by realizing the Self, as so many people here seem to conclude, but by communing with God, through prayer. This is what he underwent, and this is what he teaches.

Self-Realization, is not the same thing as Christ.

Self-Realization, anyone can obtain, without much effort.

God's Divine Love, is sought, is earned, through sincere prayer. And is felt, by the changes in your soul condition, which affect every aspect of your life.

Rest assured, that if sitting in lotus, and chanting "om" for hours on end, brought you closer to God, that Jesus would surely have taught us these things.

But he did not.

Because mantras and lotus positions, and mediation, are not on the level of soul.

Christ, takes places at the level of soul.

Your deepest part of you.

Deeper than your heart.

Deeper than your "consciousness."

There are MANY natural paths.

Only one Divine Path.

God does not withhold his Divine Love, so if there are people in the world, who reach out to God, without any knowledge of Jesus's teachings, they would receive His Divine Love regardless.

For the rest of us, who do have the benefit of a lot of technology, and resources, look for the teacher, that has the most knowledge of God.

He is the one to follow.

Buddha had no knowledge of God.
And his teachings will guide you to the Self. Great if you attain to this level.
But not a single step further, will you take, along this natural path. This is all that is promised, and this is all that you get, Self-Realization.

Jesus, to date, has the most knowledge of our God, and how our Holy Father shares His Divine Love, His Divine Substance.

Whether you're looking at the Bible, or these teachings Jesus gives through Mr. Padgett, it's the same author. Leading you towards the greatest path, the Divine Path.

Try to see the distinction, and do not lump all the teachers into one category, if you are unable to discern the differences.

Apples are not oranges.
1000 Buddha's do not equal to one Christ.
Self is knowledge of nothing. Pure Awareness, emptiness. Nothingness.
Christ, is at-one-ment, with our God.
The Highest privilege.

If you do not understand this, then the fruits have not as yet ripened.
But they will.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Sira]

I am simple in my thinking. I think Jesus was god, Buddhas were gods, we are gods and goddesses, everything that I see and cannot see is purely of god. The only difference is how aware are we of our divinity, our god self.

[psychoslice]

Yeah that idea completely misses the point of all the scriptures, Jesus never says anything about Bhuddha, Mohammed or Vishnu. They do command that you follow God and God alone no other Gods.
But the God that you believe in, is another God, its your God, the God of your scriptures, you are claiming that your God is the only God, can you see that ?.

[Amilius777]

If you refer to God, and think of the human body your soul is seated in between your eyes, within the brain. You are "centered" in the head, but you are conscious of all parts of the body through the spinal cord and the nervous system that connects everything;

God Himself is beyond the body, The FATHER is outside the body, above the head, the "seventh chakra". But within the head/brain this is

The SON centered within the head, he is conscious within all of the body, his consciousness dwells in all aspects of the body/creation.

And souls are like the cells in the body operate to keep the body clean, free of illness, rejuvenated, and co-creating with the Brain and all aspects of the body trying to stay connected with THE FATHER (the spirit above the head)

But through the weakness of cells, virus (sin) enters and kills cells. Jesus was the vaccine/antibiotic sent into the body through the Father's will, by the operation of the SON injecting itself. The vaccine/antibiotic - Jesus entered and took on the virus (sin) and destroyed it within itself. And this started a chain reaction started by the antibiotic/vaccine that gets the cells rejuvenated and energized to destroy the virus until finally the virus is all gone and cells are restored and everything is connected back to the Father, all operating as the SON (body).

So techincally the Son of God dwells within every individualized soul/cell, but all of them were sick/with error, and Jesus was the soul who purely manifested the Son within to rejuvenate us.

[DivineLove]

But the God that you believe in, is another God, its your God, the God of your scriptures, you are claiming that your God is the only God, can you see that ?.

How many Gods do you think there are?

There are so many cultures who believe in multiple gods. These are all fictional.

The Hindu gods. The Greek gods of Olympus. Fairy Tales.

The God that Jesus is referring to, as the Father. This is the one and only God.

His teachings, in this book, explain the different spirit realms, and our soul's relationship to the Supreme Creator, the Heavenly Father.

Jesus was a true authority on spiritual matters, 2000 years ago. Hence the creation of an entirely new religion. And this same authority is displayed, on matters SPIRITUAL. From the different spirit realms, to our souls, to God's Attributes. In these books, which were published in the 1920's.

I prefer these books, over the bible, because in these books, Jesus explains aspects of the bible, that were very unclear to me.
In these books, Jesus and the other Celestial Spirits, explain the afterlife, the soul, the natural realms, the Celestial Heavens, soul mates. God.

These are very deep subjects.

For the best answers, the most accurate answers. It is best to turn to the most advanced spirits.

Jesus, and the Celestial Spirits, occupy the Highest Heavens, in God's Kingdom.

They explain spirituality, in ways that the human being, simply can't.

The human being, is at the starting point, of the soul's journey. Our knowledge of spiritual things, is very muddled.

For anyone who wants to hear Truth being taught by High Spirits, on all aspects of spirituality. For the most fundamental and profound questions. This book provides answers, that no other human author can possibly provide.

That has been my experience.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Shabda]

im sorry, but you have no evidence to claim that as an absolute fact, it is your opinion, and you are welcome to have it, but Jesus was far from the highest of spiritual beings, and thats just the simple truth, he was a fine person, and a fine example, but far from a complete one, his teachings simply do not include all the necessary training to reach the very top...this is my opinion, but i have experience to go with it...the Way cannot be found in ANY book, not even one by Mr.Padgett that merely claims to be from Jesus...the best way to be taught by Jesus would be to go within and meet with him on an individual basis...a great many books have been written by psychics and mediums, claiming to be messages from Jesus or any other spiritual figure, but the author's claims are hardly proof of anything at all, they are just claims, just as this has been...

[DivineLove]

If you refer to God, and think of the human body your soul is seated in between your eyes, within the brain. You are "centered" in the head, but you are conscious of all parts of the body through the spinal cord and the nervous system that connects everything;

God Himself is beyond the body, The FATHER is outside the body, above the head, the "seventh chakra". But within the head/brain this is

The SON centered within the head, he is conscious within all of the body, his consciousness dwells in all aspects of the body/creation.

And souls are like the cells in the body operate to keep the body clean, free of illness, rejuvenated, and co-creating with the Brain and all aspects of the body trying to stay connected with THE FATHER (the spirit above the head)

But through the weakness of cells, virus (sin) enters and kills cells. Jesus was the vaccine/antibiotic sent into the body through the Father's will, by the operation of the SON injecting itself. The vaccine/antibiotic - Jesus entered and took on the virus (sin) and destroyed it within itself. And this started a chain reaction started by the antibiotic/vaccine that gets the cells rejuvenated and energized to destroy the virus until finally the virus is all gone and cells are restored and everything is connected back to the Father, all operating as the SON (body).

So techincally the Son of God dwells within every individualized soul/cell, but all of them were sick/with error, and Jesus was the soul who purely manifested the Son within to rejuvenate us.

Amilius.

Your approach to spirituality, is very muddled.

You scope out a bunch of authors.

Human authors.

Who happen to occupy the same plane of existence as you do.

And then from them, you expect to find High Truths, on spiritual matters.

But what you get, are very human interpretations of spiritual things.

You are not getting the spirits point of view.



My approach is rather different now.

Since I have encountered teachings by spirits from much Higher Planes, it has made everything human, seem very inaccurate.

Much like your responses, which are a mish-mash of popular postulates put forward by human authors whom you only partially trust, as you only takes bits of each, and then try to reform them into some kind of working theory.

When I read your responses, it all sounds like new age fluffy stuff.
Concept on top of concept, all very human. All very incorrect.

One day, you may realize, that on spiritual matters, it is best to turn to actual Spirits. High Spirits. Like Jesus. Like the Celestial Spirits. Who actually know what they are talking about.

Not human beings, who in comparison, lack data. Lack experience. Lack the insight that High Spirits like Jesus has.
We simply do not exist where they do. And they are further along in their soul development.

I am not sure why you would be compelled to absorb yogananda's teachings, over Jesus's.

Perhaps one day, when you see that these human beings, occupying the same plane that you exist in, are not at all qualified, to give accurate answers on spiritual matters.
Perhaps then, you will turn to the Highest Source.

I have never read anything Higher, than what Jesus teaches in these books.

If you want to take your spiritual food, from souls that are on the same plane as you. Go right ahead.

I no longer subscribe to human wisdom, on spiritual matters. Human beings are good for knowledge of things on this plane. Technology. Economics. Finance.
Even religion, is run efficiently, like a machine.

I have never trusted human beings, nor the church. And after what I have read in these books, it shows just how little human beings actually know, about anything substantial, when it comes to spirituality.

I am not sure, when you will awaken to this realization.

That for Truth, you must seek Higher Spirits, more developed souls.

Not the ones, that are here with you, on the same plane.

When will that "click" for you? I wonder?

If I need my plumbing fixed, I call a plumber. I don't open my book on Advaita Vedanta.
And for spiritual things, I do not "call" human beings to this task any more.
They are not qualified.

But I have read the same material you have read. And while to me, this disparity, this obvious chasm between what humans think they know, and what spirits know, is HUGE.

It's so large, that I don't listen to human beings at all, on these deeper spiritual Truths.

But you have read the same material, and still wish to take your spiritual food from the people who occupy the very plane you're on.

What can I say to you?

You are free to believe and practice whatever you choose.

If you cannot sense the Highest Source, in that which you have read. There is little that I can say, which will help you to see it.

Spirituality, is best taught, by High Spirits.

This is a firm Truth.

[DivineLove]

im sorry, but you have no evidence to claim that as an absolute fact, it is your opinion, and you are welcome to have it, but Jesus was far from the highest of spiritual beings, and thats just the simple truth, he was a fine person, and a fine example, but far from a complete one, his teachings simply do not include all the necessary training to reach the very top...this is my opinion, but i have experience to go with it...the Way cannot be found in ANY book, not even one by Mr.Padgett that merely claims to be from Jesus...the best way to be taught by Jesus would be to go within and meet with him on an individual basis...a great many books have been written by psychics and mediums, claiming to be messages from Jesus or any other spiritual figure, but the author's claims are hardly proof of anything at all, they are just claims, just as this has been...
Your opinion is just that.

An opinion.

Do not presume to know said material, unless you've actually read said material.

I notice that you chime in, every once in a while, and don't really contribute anything productive, or constructive, but rather, attempt to berate material, which you yourself have not personally read.

This is not just more stuff, by any psychic.

Your conclusions, and your efforts, reveal a narrow mind.

The world, is filled with people, just like you, who occupy this plane of existence, and think you've got a handle on Truth.

There are much Higher Planes than the one you and I are currently on.

And this is where I take my teaching from.

From more advanced spirits.

You opinion is unsubstantiated, and your viewpoint is much the same.

Why don't you post on other channels, where there are more people, like
you, who see things your way?

This is a Christian channel.

Yes, for Christians, Jesus is the Highest example, and the most advanced soul. The closest to our God. As evidenced in his teachings.

Perhaps you did not take notice, so I will re-state, "Christian Channel."

In contrast, you won't find me on the Buddhist channel, trying to berate material on Self-Realization.

I would not do that, as I respect where they are at, in their development, and do not feel the need to create friction.

But I will gladly point it out here, for people like you, who offer nothing more than a hallow opinion, and skewed perspective.

[psychoslice]

DivineLove sorry but you haven't offered anything either, you are too lost in the story of Jesus and cannot see anything else, Jesus borrowed his teachings from others before him, so give credit to all.

[Shabda]

Your opinion is just that.

An opinion.

Do not presume to know said material, unless you've actually read said material.

I notice that you chime in, every once in a while, and don't really contribute anything productive, or constructive, but rather, attempt to berate material, which you yourself have not personally read.

This is not just more stuff, by any psychic.

Your conclusions, and your efforts, reveal a narrow mind.

The world, is filled with people, just like you, who occupy this plane of existence, and think you've got a handle on Truth.

There are much Higher Planes than the one you and I are currently on.

And this is where I take my teaching from.

From more advanced spirits.

You opinion is unsubstantiated, and your viewpoint is much the same.

Why don't you post on other channels, where there are more people, like
you, who see things your way?

This is a Christian channel.

Yes, for Christians, Jesus is the Highest example, and the most advanced soul. The closest to our God. As evidenced in his teachings.

Perhaps you did not take notice, so I will re-state, "Christian Channel."

In contrast, you won't find me on the Buddhist channel, trying to berate material on Self-Realization.

I would not do that, as I respect where they are at, in their development, and do not feel the need to create friction.

But I will gladly point it out here, for people like you, who offer nothing more than a hallow opinion, and skewed perspective.
i presume nothing, ive read Padgett...you presume that i presume, and therefore, who is actually being shallow, i see that you still dont admit that your point of view is YOUR opinion, and nothing more...myself, i dont worry about "channels", they are all very much the same...my shallow "opinion" is actually my direct experience, and therefore is not simply an opinion at all, such as one derived from reading, the only difference is that one person's experience cant be proven to any other, each must seek their own experience to have their own direct proof...as far as respect, i have not disrespected you by any means, i pointed out a distinction that wasnt at all being pointed out...a book is just a book, it can inspire, but it cant provide direct experience, just opinions...btw, arent the "channels" here open and free to ALL members?regardless of religion or spiritual point of view? and your reaction to my comment is the most telling of all...

[psychoslice]

Yes I know what you are saying Shabda, I actually just wrote something about that on my thread My Space, Lost in Space, the last entry.

[DivineLove]

DivineLove sorry but you haven't offered anything either, you are too lost in the story of Jesus and cannot see anything else, Jesus borrowed his teachings from others before him, so give credit to all.

What point is there in re-affirming your viewpoint, on this channel?

Your friend, seems to suffer from the same problem.

Neither of you, are Christians, and yet, you post on this channel. To what end?
And for whose benefit?

I do not go on other channels, just write statements to the contrary. What would be the point?

It would not be very wise, nor would it be very considerate.

Go where there are others who share your viewpoints. Find a home there. If you're not a Christian, and you come here only to make statements that go against this Faith, you will not find much resonance.

Christians, find the greatest spiritual sustenance in the teachings that Jesus gives, because they show us how we can be at-one with God.
Christianity, is a path to God. At-one-ment, with God.
I pray, I seek God's Divine Love to enter into my soul. This is a living practice for me. Part Faith, mostly practice.
For a Christian, God's Divine Love, delivered through His Holy Spirit, is the most soul fulfilling experience, that one can have.

You have no beliefs, as you yourself stated.

What would you and I need to discuss? What else do we need to clarify?

You believe in nothing. The Self.
I believe in God. Through daily prayer.

What would either of us gain from further dialogue?

I like my practice. I think you like yours.

What else is there to be said?

Where ever people like you congregate, the atheist channel, or the agnostic channel. Go there, and re-affirm your viewpoints.
I am sure you will find much greater resonance.

[psychoslice]

The thing is your the one who isn't a Christian or should I say a true Christian because when we talk of Christianity who the hell are we talking about ?, there are so many out there calling themselves the same name yet all are teaching a different doctrine. The true Christian is one who has spiritually discerned the words of this Jesus guy, they Realize that we are all the Christ just as this Jesus guy was trying to tell everyone of that time. Just about all so called Christians today have lost this truth that was pointed at many years ago, they have even hijacked the name Christianity for themselves and that's what you have done, so please don't say that I am not a Christian. Christianity is going to change for the better if you like it or not, so get use to hearing the truth from where you least expect it.

[DivineLove]

i presume nothing, ive read Padgett...you presume that i presume, and therefore, who is actually being shallow, i see that you still dont admit that your point of view is YOUR opinion, and nothing more...myself, i dont worry about "channels", they are all very much the same...my shallow "opinion" is actually my direct experience, and therefore is not simply an opinion at all, such as one derived from reading, the only difference is that one person's experience cant be proven to any other, each must seek their own experience to have their own direct proof...as far as respect, i have not disrespected you by any means, i pointed out a distinction that wasnt at all being pointed out...a book is just a book, it can inspire, but it cant provide direct experience, just opinions...btw, arent the "channels" here open and free to ALL members?regardless of religion or spiritual point of view? and your reaction to my comment is the most telling of all...
The channels are free and open.

Most certainly.

I personally, don't find your efforts to be very sincere, or with any meaningful purpose.

By meaningful, I mean something that would produce a positive effect.

You chime in, here and there, much like the other fellow. Always with statements to the contrary, negating or opposing.

Again, I ask. For whose benefit?

I am glad if your beliefs and practices are working for you. I hope that they are.

But your statements, while you're free to make them, in terms of purpose and meaning, do very little to sway me, or my viewpoints.

I pray to God, for His Divine Love, and seek to be at-one with God, through prayer, through my soul. Delivered by God's Holy Spirit.

I do not seek this through a book, as you stated. One does not seek God through a book.
One seeks God, with his soul.

What else do we need to clarify?

You don't agree with me, I don't agree with you.

I don't agree with many things, but I certainly don't exert time and effort, trying to create conflicting arguments, without any purpose or meaning.

And that is all that I sense, from you, and the other fellow.

[Shabda]

you should really lighten up...smile a bit...

[psychoslice]

Always look on the bright side of life, do do, do do do...:smile: :hug3:

[DivineLove]

you should really lighten up...smile a bit...

Your comment made me smile! :hug:

I am smiling. :smile:

Regardless of our beliefs, we should endeavor to harmonize, to love one another.

I am sending you a wave of brotherly LOVE!:hug3:

At the end of the day, this is all that truly matters.

You're a good guy Shabda. :hug2:
Let us focus on harmony. Never mind the differences!

[DivineLove]

The thing is your the one who isn't a Christian or should I say a true Christian because when we talk of Christianity who the hell are we talking about ?, there are so many out there calling themselves the same name yet all are teaching a different doctrine. The true Christian is one who has spiritually discerned the words of this Jesus guy, they Realize that we are all the Christ just as this Jesus guy was trying to tell everyone of that time. Just about all so called Christians today have lost this truth that was pointed at many years ago, they have even hijacked the name Christianity for themselves and that's what you have done, so please don't say that I am not a Christian. Christianity is going to change for the better if you like it or not, so get use to hearing the truth from where you least expect it.

Ok Psychoslice, a lot of what you said, in that passage, is very much what I believe as well.

Let's harmonize, and not focus on the differences! :hug3:

[Shabda]

Your opinion is just that.

An opinion.

Do not presume to know said material, unless you've actually read said material.

I notice that you chime in, every once in a while, and don't really contribute anything productive, or constructive, but rather, attempt to berate material, which you yourself have not personally read.
that is your opinion...

This is not just more stuff, by any psychic.
ok, ill bite...prove what you say then, without quoting from the book you mention...

Your conclusions, and your efforts, reveal a narrow mind.
in YOUR opinion...it's revealing how a person reacts to another who disagrees to any extent, especially when their reaction is the same to all who disagree...

The world, is filled with people, just like you, who occupy this plane of existence, and think you've got a handle on Truth.
not to toot my own horn or anything, but the world has not one single other individual that is "like me"...again, you are assuming...i dont assume that the world is filled with people like you, or anyone else, the world is filled with individuals...

There are much Higher Planes than the one you and I are currently on.
yes, i know,i visit often, and this is where i take my learning from, and you may be surprised to know that many have never considered Jesus to be the penultimate soul or spiritual figure, and he didnt take himself to be either, what is your point? i have nothing against Jesus, and i didnt diminish him in any way whatsoever...

And this is where I take my teaching from.

From more advanced spirits.
more advanced than whom? the ones i converse with? how do you know this? have you met them?the most advanced spirits in existence are actually QUITE shocking, in the way they disagree with our human understanding of things...they often dont agree with us at all, in fact, one that always agreed would be rather suspect as there could be no further learning that way...

You opinion is unsubstantiated, and your viewpoint is much the same.
in your OPINION...my opinion of your opinion is exactly the same, you cannot substantiate any of it, if you can, please enlighten me...i am not at all trying to fight with you or start trouble, but you seem rather unwilling to accept the mere possibility that you dont know everything, and therefore all that you say is absolute truth...i disagree with that...

Why don't you post on other channels, where there are more people, like
you, who see things your way?
i think i answered this before, when all are in complete agreement, there isnt really anywhere to go with it, nothing new to learn, i prefer to look into all channels, never a dull moment, and always new things to learn...

This is a Christian channel.

Yes, for Christians, Jesus is the Highest example, and the most advanced soul. The closest to our God. As evidenced in his teachings.

Perhaps you did not take notice, so I will re-state, "Christian Channel."
excuse me? even the christian God allows free will, but you dont? isnt that sort of an incongruity?

In contrast, you won't find me on the Buddhist channel, trying to berate material on Self-Realization.
ok, what of it? perhaps you arent as interested in learning as i am, no big deal really, but you cant stop me from going where i will and trying to learn more than i already know...i have never tried to kick you off a channel or suggested that you leave because your opinions disagree with mine and make me uncomfortable, if you dont mind, please extend to me the same courtesy...

I would not do that, as I respect where they are at, in their development, and do not feel the need to create friction.

But I will gladly point it out here, for people like you, who offer nothing more than a hallow opinion, and skewed perspective.
you are quite judgmental of me, is that truly how Divine Love would act?

[psychoslice]

Ok Psychoslice, a lot of what you said, in that passage, is very much what I believe as well.

Let's harmonize, and not focus on the differences! :hug3:
Ok then my friend, i think that's a good idea.:hug:

[Shabda]

Your comment made me smile! :hug:

I am smiling. :smile:

Regardless of our beliefs, we should endeavor to harmonize, to love one another.

I am sending you a wave of brotherly LOVE!:hug3:

At the end of the day, this is all that truly matters.

You're a good guy Shabda. :hug2:
Let us focus on harmony. Never mind the differences!
im glad it did, i mean you no harm, and i certainly am not trying to change your beliefs by any stretch, i pop in and comment only because i study all of the worlds religions, and many may not agree with me, and thats ok, but sometimes there is just a nudge, so i follow it...it surely wont do any of us any good to pick at each other, so let's not waste time and effort doing that, i think we can all get along quite well, regardless of who disagrees with what, and there is always something to learn, for everyone...:hug3:

[Shabda]

Ok then my friend, i think that's a good idea.:hug:
waitaminute, it seems that very suddenly, we all agree on something...thats a sort of miracle all on it's own, and It's VERY efficient that way, pretty neat...:D

[DivineLove]

Ok then my friend, i think that's a good idea.:hug:

I wholeheartedly agree!!!!!!!! :smile::hug3:

We will have to agree, to disagree, but in doing so, we gain friendship.:hug2:
Which is more important, than congruent viewpoints.

You're a good guy too Psychoslice.
I am sending you waves of brotherly LOVE as well! :hug3:

The world needs more LOVE, not more arguing. We should refrain from that. So I am sorry, if I contributed to any negativity.

[DivineLove]

im glad it did, i mean you no harm, and i certainly am not trying to change your beliefs by any stretch, i pop in and comment only because i study all of the worlds religions, and many may not agree with me, and thats ok, but sometimes there is just a nudge, so i follow it...it surely wont do any of us any good to pick at each other, so let's not waste time and effort doing that, i think we can all get along quite well, regardless of who disagrees with what, and there is always something to learn, for everyone...:hug3:

Shabda, everything here is so well written and expressed.

I agree completely! :hug3:

There is always something to be learned. Always.

[DivineLove]

waitaminute, it seems that very suddenly, we all agree on something...thats a sort of miracle all on it's own, and It's VERY efficient that way, pretty neat...:D
I think that is what I have learned the most, in my time here.

Is that while two people can completely disagree on a mental level, it does not mean that they cannot harmonize, on a deeper level.

Call it on the level of soul, or the human level.

Where ever LOVE flows, that is the place where people can harmonize, despite any differing viewpoints.

Harmony, is so very important. More important, than our respective beliefs.

Harmony, is LOVE being actualized, being practiced.

Living the Love. :hug3:

I am glad that we have arrived here! :hug:

[DivineLove]

yes, i know,i visit often, and this is where i take my learning from, and you may be surprised to know that many have never considered Jesus to be the penultimate soul or spiritual figure, and he didnt take himself to be either, what is your point? i have nothing against Jesus, and i didnt diminish him in any way whatsoever...

Shabda, I am interested in the above statement. Specifically, "yes, i know,i visit often, and this is where i take my learning from..."

How do you visit?

Do you travel out of body, or are you a medium, meaning that you have the ability to communicate with spirits?

What is your understanding of the afterlife, and the spirit world?

I have read many books, by many authors, who have channeled the words of many different spirits.

There is a great continuity there. Many things are consistent.

I will admit, that we will not truly know, until we actually pass over into spirit.

But from all the books that I have read, from different time periods, by different authors who were mediums, most of them place Jesus as an advanced soul, having authority, and living in the Highest Heavens.

Where have you seen evidence to the contrary? And who is more advanced than Jesus, from what you've read or come across?

Please elaborate? :smile:

[LightFilledHeart]

Yeah Yeah you all saw the movie avatar now everythings an "Avatar".

Actually the true definition of avatar is very specific and includes a number of things that must be part of the story in order for the individual to qualify :wink:

[LightFilledHeart]

Here's what I find hard to swallow. The man Jesus came to earth and in one short lifetime managed to access and example the epitome of christ consciousness, illustrating the concept of christ awareness in mankind more powerfully and beautifully than ever before. Yet people label HIM "God" and do not recognize the full extent of his message/teaching regarding ALL of us being likewise......! Is it because if we deify him, and dilute or negate the bulk of his message, we thereby abdicate responsibility for becoming christlike ourselves? Jesus said "These things I do ye shall do, and greater things shall ye do". The widest disparity between my beliefs and those of Christians is my inability to see Jesus as the one and only son of God when in fact the man himself said otherwise. I simply do not see him as "the great exception", but rather as the great example of what we can (and should!) all access and achieve... i.e., enlightenment/illumination.

[bbr]

Yet people label HIM "God" and do not recognize the full extent of his message/teaching regarding ALL of us being likewise......! Is it because if we deify him, and dilute or negate the bulk of his message, we thereby abdicate responsibility for becoming christlike ourselves?Exactly, and well stated, LFH. To be fair though, that happens with most people when it comes to any and all life situations. I spent the first 40 years of my life abdicating responsibility for things, before I woke up and realized what I was doing.

[GoldenBoy72]

Actually the true definition of avatar is very specific and includes a number of things that must be part of the story in order for the individual to qualify :wink:

:D I know baby, but some of these atheists are influenced by media so strongly.

[Shabda]

Shabda, I am interested in the above statement. Specifically, "yes, i know,i visit often, and this is where i take my learning from..."

How do you visit?

Do you travel out of body, or are you a medium, meaning that you have the ability to communicate with spirits?

What is your understanding of the afterlife, and the spirit world?

I have read many books, by many authors, who have channeled the words of many different spirits.

There is a great continuity there. Many things are consistent.

I will admit, that we will not truly know, until we actually pass over into spirit.

But from all the books that I have read, from different time periods, by different authors who were mediums, most of them place Jesus as an advanced soul, having authority, and living in the Highest Heavens.

Where have you seen evidence to the contrary? And who is more advanced than Jesus, from what you've read or come across?

Please elaborate? :smile:
conscious OBE predominately, as well as communications by spirits, i dont consider myself a medium however...the afterlife and spirit worlds are another thing i tend to disagree with many on...the astral,causal,mental and etheric planes are spirit worlds, but none are heaven, although they seem to be when compare to the physical...many of the followers of earth's religions dont realize it, but they stop ascent before reaching the first of the true spiritual worlds, the first level beyond duality where soul exists in it's pure form, this is the place where true self realization occurs, also the place where "I Am" or "I Am That" occurs, where also is the lowest aspect of the true God, often called Sat Nam exists, the first level of the true heaven, but, there is still quite further to go before one can directly experience the Godhead...on this soul level is also a place where one experiences the great Oneness, not to be confused with a similar experience on the lower, mental planes, referred to as cosmic consciousness...when a young man Jesus was taught these inner paths and initiated by a man named Zadok, an essene, and though he didnt strictly stay on that particular "way" he used all that he learned in his earthly ministry...now,it must be remembered, that there is no grand cosmology that is agreed upon by all, so, what one person says is "the highest heaven" may not necessarily be at all, but rather the highest they were able to attain...a soul on the mental plane may well believe that is the highest heaven, but in truth,there is no end to heaven, it doesnt stop, there is no such thing as perfection because there will always be another level that can be gone to...some who were higher than Christ? i of course am unable to prove what i say to you, so it therefore can only be my opinion, the truth or lack thereof of any of what i say is ultimately the individual's responsibility to prove true or false for themselves...some that i consider having developed beyond Jesus? Jallal u Din'l Rumi, Shamus-i-Tabrizi, Kabir, these are just a few names, there are many more that no one would even remotely recognize...i dont mean this as a contest where "my guy is better than your guy" or anything, all paths are the same, all sprung from the same source, all try to teach the same way of returning to God...which brings up another thing...when one reaches the "top" or God Realization, they dont get to sit up on a throne at the right hand of God or anything, they have to be born here, without remembering their journey, and do it over again, taking the chance of failing, and when they reach the top again and return, they must be a divine co-worker, and serve Spirit in helping soul make the same journey, and they do this because of the level of divine love that emnates from their heart, they are willing to risk it all to be able to help and serve...

[Amilius777]

This thread has gone for a turn for the worst.

I have been accused of taking from "human" authors and yogi nutcases. For what? Believing that God has sent his only begotten Son into the world more than once? That the Father dwells through all his children in the eternal image he created us in?

DivineLove, I feel like you went through a bad time with Eastern Mystics and General Yoga beliefs and have kinda taken it all and thrown into one pile and see as dungheap.

First off, Cayce wasn't an author. He never believed anything he said. Second off, the idea of "Divine Love" as the Christ is nothing new. I was raised catholic, I already knew that Christ was the Divine love. I didn't need Padgett's readings to understand this. That at mass, you consumed the Body and Blood of Christ (not Jesus) of Christ which washes away sins. Which was the divine wisdom and love of Christ. I already knew this. The Hindus on the Bhagvad Gita have Krishna literally talking about The Divine Love being communed in Yoga through his meditation. And it is given to the soul through Brahman (All Father). Buddha believed that nirvana and attaining divinity in self was Divine Love. It goes beyond natural love.

Sri Yukteswar's Holy Science who bridged Hinduism and Christianity talks a bunch on Divine Love and how it transcends all natural love and paths in human history. The Divine Love is love one another, love God, and thy self. No room for self, but God which is us and everyone. That is why when they asked Buddha why must we treat everyone equally, Buddha always said we were one with everything. There is only One Reality, God. And God is thy self, God is thy brother, God is thy Creator. This is what Jesus preached. Oneness.

James Padgett's readings seem like nothing new. I don't understand the obsession over his readings on the "celestials". Why is it wrong to find God in human beings who have lived? In order for us to understand and follow I need to see the pattern in Man! I can't get it from a higher spirit. What would that prove? Its just knowledge. I need to see and read the cosmic drama played out in the soul. As it was with Jesus and his obedience on the Cross. Or how it was with Buddha and his long years of suffering to find true liberation which was Grace. Or Moses in his most doubting times and weakness always relied on God even when his people were ready to overthrow him. You see why messages from spirits is sort of useless? It doesn't help us become better souls.

Another thing is that you seemed to not know who Babaji is. I never said you have to believe in him. But there are four, very sane, very intelligent, gurus who have done great things accounted in many of Yogananda's memoirs/books. They all encountered this Babaji. So has Daya Mata who just passed away.She went to the Himalayas to see if he truly was there. She also encountered him. babaji is a title like christ is a title. Babaji means "revered father" for rejuvenating the yoga techniques for communion with God's Divine Love. Many americans who have gone to the Himalayas, spiritual seekers have had witnessed this being's encounter. They say he is a phenomenon. He is spoken about in Conversations with God Trilogy. He has been written about by hundreds of people. His influence was grown. It is not that Babaji is someone higher than Jesus, nor replacing him, but Babaji is suppose to be the proof that no only Jesus, but others can transcend death in the body because God created us as spiritual beings, not physical ones. And that with complete free will at-one with God's will we can do extradionary things.

In most spiritual circles, Jesus' mission is pretty well secured and protected. He is the only Son of God who went to the Cross and wiped away the disobedience/separation of the first Adam (who had Divine Consciousness), in his obedience of sacrificing self. And resurrected his body, mind, and soul after death with the full rejuvenation of the physical body into glorified body. And his soul resurrected/ascended into the Father. This was a perfect soul, divine, who needed no guidance but showed a Pattern and created a Universal Path for all mankind to follow.

I was raised Roman Catholic and as much as I can not stand their ways, in the Catechism it is said that the Word/or Son can take on the life of multiple persons if He wishes. And I believe this is true. The Christ Spirit has come numerous times before and after Jesus!

This entire thread should be changed. Calling it Jesus is not God on a Christian Forum just brings about contradictions, misunderstandings, dogmatic influences, and other **** that has happened now on this thread.

It should have been- The Christ is God, Jesus is the Man

[Miss Hepburn]

Here's what I find hard to swallow. The man Jesus came to earth and in one short lifetime managed to access and example the epitome of christ consciousness, illustrating the concept of christ awareness in mankind more powerfully and beautifully than ever before. Yet people label HIM "God" and do not recognize the full extent of his message/teaching regarding ALL of us being likewise......! Is it because if we deify him, and dilute or negate the bulk of his message, we thereby abdicate responsibility for becoming christlike ourselves? Jesus said "These things I do ye shall do, and greater things shall ye do". The widest disparity between my beliefs and those of Christians is my inability to see Jesus as the one and only son of God when in fact the man himself said otherwise. I simply do not see him as "the great exception", but rather as the great example of what we can (and should!) all access and achieve... i.e., enlightenment/illumination.
Hi LFH,
Influenced by the wisdom in the ACIM and my friends from there---my take now is the understanding that Man just loves to separate ---by saying Jesus is God - it keeps him still at arms length unable to fully be realized or understood within ourselves as "joint heirs".

May I place an excerpt by Samuel from Divine Love's links, channeled:
Re the crucifixion...
"...The words that he is supposed to have uttered, were not so uttered,
and he did not call upon the Father for His help, or to cause the bitter cup to pass from him, and all reports of what he said or did at that time are not true,
but merely the imaginings of those who wrote of him in later times...

I know that Christians of today will not be ready to receive these
statements as true, because of the long years of belief in these things that have obtained during the centuries.
Why men should want to believe in these representations of things that never happened it is hard to understand, for in themselves that have no significence except that mere endeavor to make as dramatic and impressive on humanity
the wonderful circumstances that they allege surrounded the death of Jesus.
If they will only think, they must realize that the death of Jesus, accompanied by all the startling environments described in
the Bible did not afford one iota of help in way of saving a human soul or teaching
that soul the true way to the Father's Kingdom. His life is what had the effect and not
his death; and the sooner men learn that Truth the sooner will they learn the fact that
no death of Jesus could save them from themselves, or show them the way to the
Celestial Kingdom....
...
This worship is all very distasteful to him and are such that he
does not desire to witness, and hence, he remains in his home in the high Celestial Spheres.
He desires men to worship only the One True Father that he worships, and thus
receive the true benediction of the Father."

I dunno I thought maybe it pertained a bit. :smile:

[DivineLove]

conscious OBE predominately, as well as communications by spirits, i dont consider myself a medium however...the afterlife and spirit worlds are another thing i tend to disagree with many on...the astral,causal,mental and etheric planes are spirit worlds, but none are heaven, although they seem to be when compare to the physical...many of the followers of earth's religions dont realize it, but they stop ascent before reaching the first of the true spiritual worlds, the first level beyond duality where soul exists in it's pure form, this is the place where true self realization occurs, also the place where "I Am" or "I Am That" occurs, where also is the lowest aspect of the true God, often called Sat Nam exists, the first level of the true heaven, but, there is still quite further to go before one can directly experience the Godhead...on this soul level is also a place where one experiences the great Oneness, not to be confused with a similar experience on the lower, mental planes, referred to as cosmic consciousness...when a young man Jesus was taught these inner paths and initiated by a man named Zadok, an essene, and though he didnt strictly stay on that particular "way" he used all that he learned in his earthly ministry...now,it must be remembered, that there is no grand cosmology that is agreed upon by all, so, what one person says is "the highest heaven" may not necessarily be at all, but rather the highest they were able to attain...a soul on the mental plane may well believe that is the highest heaven, but in truth,there is no end to heaven, it doesnt stop, there is no such thing as perfection because there will always be another level that can be gone to...some who were higher than Christ? i of course am unable to prove what i say to you, so it therefore can only be my opinion, the truth or lack thereof of any of what i say is ultimately the individual's responsibility to prove true or false for themselves...some that i consider having developed beyond Jesus? Jallal u Din'l Rumi, Shamus-i-Tabrizi, Kabir, these are just a few names, there are many more that no one would even remotely recognize...i dont mean this as a contest where "my guy is better than your guy" or anything, all paths are the same, all sprung from the same source, all try to teach the same way of returning to God...which brings up another thing...when one reaches the "top" or God Realization, they dont get to sit up on a throne at the right hand of God or anything, they have to be born here, without remembering their journey, and do it over again, taking the chance of failing, and when they reach the top again and return, they must be a divine co-worker, and serve Spirit in helping soul make the same journey, and they do this because of the level of divine love that emnates from their heart, they are willing to risk it all to be able to help and serve...

Shabda, thank you for sharing that. :smile:

You're right, there are certainly many different interpretations on the spirit realms.

I have heard of this version, and you explain it well.
I tend to relate more with Jesus's teachings, in Mr. Padgett's works, as they align with books written by many other authors, some dating back to the 1700's. From spirits, who were not religious, or Christians, necessarily, but who found a medium, and wanted to convey what their experience was.

I find continuity in many of those other works, that run through all these books. From the 1700's all the way through till present time.

But once again, we truly won't know, until we're there.

I don't really believe in re-incarnation. Many people do.
I believe Jesus, when he says that God did not create the soul, so that it would re-trace its steps, re-trace its path. In these teachings, Jesus rules out re-incarnation, and many other natural spirits also speak of this fact, that no one they know has re-incarnated, although many wait.

I think you said it best, when you stated, that we are all on a journey back to God.
I think this is one point we can all agree upon. That everyone here, is seeking Truth, and God is the Ultimate Truth, Eternal Life, Eternal Love.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[DivineLove]

Here's what I find hard to swallow. The man Jesus came to earth and in one short lifetime managed to access and example the epitome of christ consciousness, illustrating the concept of christ awareness in mankind more powerfully and beautifully than ever before. Yet people label HIM "God" and do not recognize the full extent of his message/teaching regarding ALL of us being likewise......! Is it because if we deify him, and dilute or negate the bulk of his message, we thereby abdicate responsibility for becoming christlike ourselves? Jesus said "These things I do ye shall do, and greater things shall ye do". The widest disparity between my beliefs and those of Christians is my inability to see Jesus as the one and only son of God when in fact the man himself said otherwise. I simply do not see him as "the great exception", but rather as the great example of what we can (and should!) all access and achieve... i.e., enlightenment/illumination.

This is really well written LightFilledHeart.

I agree with this 100%. Jesus was a human being, as any of us are. But his achievement, in attaining Christ, in receiving the Fullness of God's Divine Love, within his soul, making him divine.
This is the path that he teaches, and one that is open to all.

No one is left out, or excluded.

Jesus was not God.

And Christ, is not God either. Christ is God's Divine Essence, His Divine Substance, that the Father shares, which can enter the soul, and make it divine.

Achieving Divinity, places a soul, at-one with God.

But becoming divine, does not make one into a god.
God is God alone.

The rest of us, His children, have the opportunity, to ascend to Christ. And in doing so, receive the Fullness of God's Divine Love, and Eternal Life.

I think those are pretty big Gifts, from the Supreme Creator. :hug3:

[DivineLove]

This thread has gone for a turn for the worst.

I have been accused of taking from "human" authors and yogi nutcases. For what? Believing that God has sent his only begotten Son into the world more than once? That the Father dwells through all his children in the eternal image he created us in?

DivineLove, I feel like you went through a bad time with Eastern Mystics and General Yoga beliefs and have kinda taken it all and thrown into one pile and see as dungheap.

First off, Cayce wasn't an author. He never believed anything he said. Second off, the idea of "Divine Love" as the Christ is nothing new. I was raised catholic, I already knew that Christ was the Divine love. I didn't need Padgett's readings to understand this. That at mass, you consumed the Body and Blood of Christ (not Jesus) of Christ which washes away sins. Which was the divine wisdom and love of Christ. I already knew this. The Hindus on the Bhagvad Gita have Krishna literally talking about The Divine Love being communed in Yoga through his meditation. And it is given to the soul through Brahman (All Father). Buddha believed that nirvana and attaining divinity in self was Divine Love. It goes beyond natural love.

Sri Yukteswar's Holy Science who bridged Hinduism and Christianity talks a bunch on Divine Love and how it transcends all natural love and paths in human history. The Divine Love is love one another, love God, and thy self. No room for self, but God which is us and everyone. That is why when they asked Buddha why must we treat everyone equally, Buddha always said we were one with everything. There is only One Reality, God. And God is thy self, God is thy brother, God is thy Creator. This is what Jesus preached. Oneness.

James Padgett's readings seem like nothing new. I don't understand the obsession over his readings on the "celestials". Why is it wrong to find God in human beings who have lived?..... Amilius,

Really well written, and expressed.
I'm going to look into some of the things you've sited.
I've had good experiences with Eastern stuff, from yoga to meditation.
My qualm, is with human teachers, as a whole.
Not Eastern teachers, specifically.
But your passage, is very well illustrated.
And your points are rock solid. Thank you for sharing that. :smile::hug3:

ps. (Jesus teaches that prayer is necessary, in order to receive from the Father, His Divine Love, His Divine Substance, within your soul.

What does Babaji, teach, as the method for actually acquiring God's Divine Essence?

Jesus teaches, that belief in him, is not sufficient. That a soul must commune with God, through prayer, to receive God's Divine Love, His Divine Substance.

That has also been, my personal experience. I find that I have to pray, in order to receive from God, His Great Love. Through His Holy Spirit.

I did not find it, in Self-Realization, or in pure awareness. What I found there, was great tranquility.
I found, timelessness. A place, beyond time. Very curious place to exist from.

But God's Divine Love, so far, I have only been able to find, through Jesus's teachings, in these books, by Mr. Padgett. I didn't "get it", through the bible. In these books, I followed Jesus's advice on praying for the Father's Divine Love, and His Love surely came. And has been coming, whenever I pray.

From my own personal experience, this is the reason I recommend spirits, over human teachers, as, thus far, it has been through spirits like Jesus, that I have found a path to God's Divine Love.

It was not through human teachers. Not through the church. Not through religion.

But now that I have read Jesus's teachings through Mr.Padgett's books, I can much better understand the bible. With much more insight, where before I only saw a book of myths. Did such a person really exist? etc.

Either way, we're all looking in the right direction. Beyond the natural love.
Receiving from God, from the Father, His Divine Substance.

If some find it through Eastern practice, that is incredible. I did not think it was possible, but your illustration shows many examples of God's Love at the root of Eastern religion.

I think what's most important, is actually finding God's Love.

Not so much the method perhaps. Human or spirit. As long as it leads to God's Divine Substance, which is an Eternal Substance, then that is where the soul will find the greatest sustenance.

Eastern, Western, Human, Spirit, in the end, the crowning achievement, is communion with God. At-one-ment with God.

I think we are all headed towards the same goal.

There are differing perspectives and beliefs. Re-incarnation is a big one.

But all that aside, what I felt from everyone here, despite any differences, is a deep spiritual dedication.

I just want to take a moment, to recognize the Love and Light, within all of us. And to say, that as a whole, I am glad to have had a dialogue with so many good people.

Amilius, present company included! :hug: Sending you brotherly LOVE!:hug2:

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Shabda]

Here? :smile:

You've made me smile again Shabda!:hug3:

Was I looking there, when I should have been looking here?
you may have been, im not sure, but what i do know, is that the distance between the Godhead and the highest of heavens, is literally nil, nothing, we are ALL here, now,as is God, just all of us havent yet realized it...

[DivineLove]

Shabda,

There are some interesting correlations.

...the astral,causal,mental and etheric planes are spirit worlds, but none are heaven, although they seem to be when compare to the physical...many of the followers of earth's religions dont realize it, but they stop ascent before reaching the first of the true spiritual worlds, the first level beyond duality where soul exists in it's pure form,

In these books, Jesus teaches that in the Celestial Heavens, the soul exists without the need for the spirit body. As just pure soul.
They say that they project the spirit body when the descend to work on the lower planes. But exist as just souls, in the Celestial Heavens.

,there is no end to heaven, it doesnt stop, there is no such thing as perfection because there will always be another level that can be gone to

In this book, Jesus refers to the Celestial Heavens, as Infinite. That once the soul gains divinity, and enters into these Celestial Spheres, the soul begins an Eternal journey, one that never ends. Constantly developing, in soul development, growing in God's Divine Love. Never reaching perfection, but growing towards it, in the Great Eternity.

the astral,causal,mental and etheric planes are spirit worlds, but none are heaven, although they seem to be when compare to the physical...many of the followers of earth's religions dont realize it, but they stop ascent before reaching the first of the true spiritual worlds,

These planes, are referred to as the natural realms, by Jesus and the Celestials. And they too, describe it as heaven, by comparison to human standards, but not a true heaven.

These are more like learning spheres, where the soul gains new abilities, and grows and develops.

Shabda, I don't know if you see it also, but there is great similarity in what you believe in. And what I believe in.

Yet the source of our teachings, are probably quite different.

I find this interesting.

Any thoughts on this?

[DivineLove]

But, I dare anyone for a week from their heart ask our Father who resides in Heaven to gift you with His Divine Love...then come back and write and tell us.


Beautifully written Miss H.

Your entire passage is so honest and comes from a very deep place.

I wish everyone would at least try that which you recommend. To dare and pray for God's Divine Love to enter their souls. The answer is certain, and this Love is Greater than any other Love, which makes the soul immediately aware of a living process, a living connection, a communion only possible with God.

Shabda, you asked me to prove something, without quoting from this book.

This is the only proof I have my friend.:smile:

I followed the advice within the book, to pray. And within the span of a week or so, I began to notice a Great Love, filling my soul. And a great light, as well. I could feel it, and see it, when my eyes were closed.
This Love, was very different from the person I am accustomed to being, in my 33 years of mortal living.
When God's Divine Love was within my soul, I feel so pure, and good. So intent on loving everyone and everything. Without any real effort nor pretense.
When this Love is not present, as not all my days are the same. I feel It's Absence, and my personality traits, which are not nearly as Loving, come back.

Sometimes, I catch myself doing something, and on a mental level, it's ok, but on the level of soul, I am just appalled by what I just did.

For example, on one of my "average" days, I was looking for a parking space, at the bank. And this woman was also nearby, in her car. I flew into the spot, ahead of her.
And on a mental level, this was the correct move.
I needed a spot. It's first come, first serve.
Fair play.
I got there first.

But on a deeper level, I felt really bad. I could sense that what I had done, was really selfish. And that giving her that spot, would have been more rewarding, deep down inside, in my soul, than having taken it from her.

I also observed how easily I reverted to old behavior patterns. While knowing full well, that on a "good" day, where I am filled with God's Divine Love, I would have given her the spot, without hesitation.

This is not from any book. This is from my own life. I pray everyday, and some days I am filled with God's Divine Love, and those are great days. No one can upset me. No one can move me out of this higher vibration, this Loving state. No matter how offensive or aggressive the attempt. I respond with Love. And it persists all day long.

On the days, where I don't have so much of God's Divine Love, I have to witness my old personality traits come back. And it is not always pleasant, the observance of my own behavior. It is not nearly as Loving.

I don't know if this illustration proves anything. But it's how my life flows, or has been flowing for the last 1.5 years. There are more good days, than average days. So I think there is growth.

But the road is long, and the work is ceaseless.

I am not a bad person, and most people would regard me in a positive light. But my capacity for goodness, kindness, unconditional Love, is heightened beyond any level that I can naturally create, more than any other practice that I have ever come across.

God's Divine Love, is very powerful, and it changes my soul, in very visible ways. It affects my soul condition, and in turn, all levels of my being. Mental, emotional, physical. Everything is impacted, and improved, so much more than what I am accustomed to, or what I naturally inclined towards.

[Shabda]

the point wasnt really to get you to prove anything, just to show that spiritual experiences are very subjective, thats all...

[Shabda]

Shabda,
There are some interesting correlations.
In these books, Jesus teaches that in the Celestial Heavens, the soul exists without the need for the spirit body. As just pure soul.
They say that they project the spirit body when the descend to work on the lower planes. But exist as just souls, in the Celestial Heavens.
In this book, Jesus refers to the Celestial Heavens, as Infinite. That once the soul gains divinity, and enters into these Celestial Spheres, the soul begins an Eternal journey, one that never ends. Constantly developing, in soul development, growing in God's Divine Love. Never reaching perfection, but growing towards it, in the Great Eternity.
These planes, are referred to as the natural realms, by Jesus and the Celestials. And they too, describe it as heaven, by comparison to human standards, but not a true heaven.
These are more like learning spheres, where the soul gains new abilities, and grows and develops.

Shabda, I don't know if you see it also, but there is great similarity in what you believe in. And what I believe in.
Yet the source of our teachings, are probably quite different.
I find this interesting.
Any thoughts on this? that is true in one sense, but false in another...sources seem different from an earthly point of view, but truthfully, all spiritual paths that have ever existed, or ever will exist, start in the same place, and therefore, arent so different as they may at times appear to be...

[weezieseeking320]

Christ is God Himself, eternal God incarnate, He is still different than that of the Father. As a man and as man's representative the Son of Man, Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form. Jesus was dependent on the Father for strength, guidance, wisdom, ect. The God of the Son because He is the Son of God doesn't imply inferiority only differences in roles. The Son of God is only a difference in roles than the Father; however, none of us are the Father as much as we are not the Son of God.

The sin of humanity had been their separation from the Spirit, their falling back into the separate self, and thereby coming into conflict with nature, with their fellows, and with God. Jesus comes as the man who offers himself in sacrifice in total surrender, to God, to the Supreme, and in doing this he reverses the sin of Adam. Adam, the primal Man, had fallen by disobedience, by following his mind and will rather than surrendering to the Spirit. Jesus, the new Adam, the Son of Man, the representative Man, makes a total surrender to the Spirit, to God, to the Father, and by that he overcomes humanity's separation from the Father, from God, reuniting humanity as one body in himself. He breaks down all the barriers that have been set up and finally he reconciles creation with himself, as a new creation.:angel3:

[supernova]

the point wasnt really to get you to prove anything, just to show that spiritual experiences are very subjective, thats all...

That creates problems, for what we feel and expereience is totally personal and we can hardly share what we feel deep down

[Shabda]

That creates problems, for what we feel and expereience is totally personal and we can hardly share what we feel deep down
one can if one wants to...

[DivineLove]

that is true in one sense, but false in another...sources seem different from an earthly point of view, but truthfully, all spiritual paths that have ever existed, or ever will exist, start in the same place, and therefore, arent so different as they may at times appear to be...

I like when things align. When things intersect at integral points.

I did not expect our respective beliefs, would align on these aspects.

And yet, I find that they do.

I like to see this.
It's far easier for two people, who share common viewpoints, to agree on subtle details.

It's not so easy, when you have 2 very different people, with different beliefs, entirely different points of views.
And yet, so much of what you stated, is exactly what I have come to recognize as also being true, in my own search.

Your OBE's. How frequently do you travel?
Are the realms different every time, or are they the same environments?
What are the environments like?
Is it very different from a lucid dream?
Have you ever encountered hostile or negative spirits, and if so, how did you react?
Did you notice the silver cord, that connects your astral body, to your physical body? Many people claim to see this unbreakable cord.

[DivineLove]

The sin of humanity had been their separation from the Spirit, their falling back into the separate self, and thereby coming into conflict with nature, with their fellows, and with God. Jesus comes as the man who offers himself in sacrifice in total surrender, to God, to the Supreme, and in doing this he reverses the sin of Adam. Adam, the primal Man, had fallen by disobedience, by following his mind and will rather than surrendering to the Spirit. Jesus, the new Adam, the Son of Man, the representative Man, makes a total surrender to the Spirit, to God, to the Father, and by that he overcomes humanity's separation from the Father, from God, reuniting humanity as one body in himself. He breaks down all the barriers that have been set up and finally he reconciles creation with himself, as a new creation.:angel3:

Very well written Weezieseeking320. :smile:

That is my understanding as well.

[supernova]

one can if one wants to...

How can I feel and expereince exactly you do. I never can be you and you can never put in print or in words. Words are words and just the shadow of what we think and how can a shadow be the substance?

[DivineLove]

How can I feel and expereince exactly you do. I never can be you and you can never put in print or in words. Words are words and just the shadow of what we think and how can a shadow be the substance?
Supernova,

I think you're right, in a very strict sense.
Just like no two snowflakes are "identical", so too, in the strictest sense, no experience or feeling is identical.
There is definitely truth to what you are saying.

But in a more general way, while we all don't feel, exactly as the other does, we all can relate to love. Or it's opposite.
We can relate to one another, because we share in the fundamental areas.

I think two people would have to have some similarity, in terms of experience, if there was to be understanding.

For example. God, and praying to God. Receiving His Divine Love.

Prior to my contact with these teachings, most importantly, a rapport with God, I could not really relate with other people on this subject.
Faith to me, was a mystery.

Now, if I hear someone speak of the Holy Spirit, or God's Love, or God's Divine Love. Praying. Receiving from God.
I can relate to that, much better than I could before.

Before, I truly, had not even the slightest idea of any of these things, and if you asked me then, I would tell you exactly that.
As I did not have any experience in communing with God.

Now, at least, there is some experience to speak of.

But even that, is in its infancy.

[supernova]

Supernova,

I think you're right, in a very strict sense.
Just like no two snowflakes are "identical", so too, in the strictest sense, no experience or feeling is identical.
There is definitely truth to what you are saying.

But in a more general way, while we all don't feel, exactly as the other does, we all can relate to love. Or it's opposite.
We can relate to one another, because we share in the fundamental areas.

I think two people would have to have some similarity, in terms of experience, if there was to be understanding.

For example. God, and praying to God. Receiving His Divine Love.

Prior to my contact with these teachings, most importantly, a rapport with God, I could not really relate with other people on this subject.
Faith to me, was a mystery.

Now, if I hear someone speak of the Holy Spirit, or God's Love, or God's Divine Love. Praying. Receiving from God.
I can relate to that, much better than I could before.

Before, I truly, had not even the slightest idea of any of these things, and if you asked me then, I would tell you exactly that.
As I did not have any experience in communing with God.

Now, at least, there is some experience to speak of.

But even that, is in its infancy.

Sharing is a great word and it carries the substance more than my cerebrum can contain. This word "sharing"has gravity. Sharing is likened to fusion. I am the product of "sharing", "fusion".

When my father mated my mother, I am afraid I may sound a little derogatory in this civil society, I am the result. Our ideas fuse and creativity is born. We all are fusing, blending and integrating.

There is cosmic intercourse and kind of sex. We murge into one another, submerge and emerge.

In this cosmic interplay we are sparked

[DivineLove]

Sharing is a great word and it carries the substance more than my cerebrum can contain. This word "sharing"has gravity. Sharing is likened to fusion. I am the product of "sharing", "fusion".

When my father mated my mother, I am afraid I may sound a little derogatory in this civil society, I am the result. Our ideas fuse and creativity is born. We all are fusing, blending and integrating.

There is cosmic intercourse and kind of sex. We murge into one another, submerge and emerge.

In this cosmic interplay we are sparked

What an interesting and eloquent interpretation! :smile:

See SuperNova, you CAN share! :hug:

You just proved it yourself!

I don't exactly see things the way you do. Your perception, your insights, are unique only to yourself. But when you share, we get a sense of your
perspective. Of the lens through which you see the world.

[supernova]

What an interesting and eloquent interpretation! :smile:

See SuperNova, you CAN share! :hug:

You just proved it yourself!

I don't exactly see things the way you do. Your perception, your insights, are unique only to yourself. But when you share, we get a sense of your
perspective. Of the lens through which you see the world.

Divine, what I said is not mine alone and had I not read your post I never could write these words.

I fused my ideas with yours!

[Shabda]

I like when things align. When things intersect at integral points.

I did not expect our respective beliefs, would align on these aspects.

And yet, I find that they do.

I like to see this.
It's far easier for two people, who share common viewpoints, to agree on subtle details.

It's not so easy, when you have 2 very different people, with different beliefs, entirely different points of views.
And yet, so much of what you stated, is exactly what I have come to recognize as also being true, in my own search.

1.Your OBE's. How frequently do you travel?
2.Are the realms different every time, or are they the same environments?
3.What are the environments like?
4.Is it very different from a lucid dream?
5.Have you ever encountered hostile or negative spirits, and if so, how did you react?
6.Did you notice the silver cord, that connects your astral body, to your physical body? Many people claim to see this unbreakable cord.
ok, let's see...
1.actually, pretty often...sometimes during contemplation, a direct experience, other times a full waking bi-location (not actually leaving, but being aware in the body as well as "out" of it at the same time)...
2.both, one can visit the same places, but there are always new ones to explore as well...
3.they are always interesting to say the least, but it depends on which area im in...
4.lucid dreams are OBE's
5.yes i have, for years now, i dont react, i act, Divine Love is the sword and shield...
6.no, no silver cord...the Soul body has no cord, and this is the one i use...the cords exists on the astral, causal,and mental forms...

[DivineLove]

Divine, what I said is not mine alone and had I not read your post I never could write these words.

I fused my ideas with yours!

Fuse away my friend! :smile:

Mi Casa, su Casa! :hug3:

There seems to be a lot of synchronicity here, at times, where I least expected it.
People have different beliefs, and various perspectives, but still, there seems to be so much common ground as well.

I have learned a great deal, from my interactions with some great people.

So keep on fusing SuperNova! :wink:

[DivineLove]

Where is our friend Psychoslice? :smile:

Too quiet, without him!

[Valus]

I don't see anything wrong with someone claiming that Jesus was higher than Buddha, or vice versa. I myself would require solid evidence before taking such a position, but the position itself is not offensive to me, and it seems unlikely that the founders of these religions were all perfect equals. Sure, it would be politically correct to say so, and would avoid upsetting some people (who will, no doubt, call us arrogant), but it wouldn't ring true. I don't see equality in the universe anywhere. I see that some are greater in some ways, and less in others, and that this may roughly be approximated as equality. But can we ever really know?

We have no difficulty concluding that a major league ballplayer is better (at least, at baseball) than a five year old. Or that Picasso was a greater artist than Einstein -- who wasn't an artist. But if a large number of people really cared and really believed the five year old was a better ball player, or Einstein was a better artist, would we then be morally compelled to agree that they are equals? So as not to offend anyone, or to seem arrogant? Sure, maybe the five year old will grow up to be the best ballplayer ever, or maybe Einstein in his next life will be a master artist, of whom even Picasso would stand in awe. But right now?

Or, to compare apples to apples: Let's say that one person insists that DaVinci is the greatest artist, while another insists that it is Michelangelo. Here, the comparison is so close, we are really at pains to discover which is better. Generally, we are content to throw up our hands, and chalk it up to a difference in personal taste. No sense fighting over it. Well, don't the same values apply when it comes to religion? My view doesn't change simply because we are dealing with a more emotionally charged issue.

There are certainly clear distinctions. I know that I'm not as evolved as the Buddha. But when it comes to comparing holy people, the distinctions are not as clear. Mostly, I see preferences. If we hold one teacher in higher esteem, it is largely a matter of personal taste. Often, it's because they are the "right" teacher for us at a given time, on a given path. In that sense, we can't say that anyone is equal, since there is always a teacher better suited to us at any given moment, -- even if only because we feel drawn to him/her, and more receptive to the teaching. Let's face it: It's better to be receptive to a pretty good teacher, than unreceptive to even the greatest teacher. And, after hearing it said that "only a poor teacher blames the student", I have to wonder -- If any of these teachers are perfect, why are so many people unreceptive to them?

If we believe what one esoteric teaching says, then we must conclude that whoever your teacher is, at any given moment, is the best teacher for you. Sometimes we learn best what path to walk only by being misled. Sometimes we need a poor teacher to mislead us, before we can recognize (and, so, be ready to learn from) a greater teacher. And so on.

My own feeling, as someone who feels drawn more to Jesus Christ, is that, saying he is "the best" would be like giving your own father a "World's Best Dad" t-shirt. Is he really the world's best dad? I dunno. Probably not. But he's mine. He's the one I feel related to more closely than any other. In that sense, he is the best for me. And if you saw me giving him that shirt, would you really protest? Would you say that it is arrogant, unlikely, and requires proof? Probably not. Probably, you'd think it was touching, and not feel particularly threatened by it. You might even get the same t-shirt and give it to your dad. Of course, then I'd have to declare war. ;)

Of course, if we were to "judge according to the fruits" we might have to conclude that Buddha was the best. I mean, who ever heard of a Buddhist holy war? Then again, it's not over until the fat lady sings; or the four horsemen of the apocalypse hang up their spurs, or whatever.


Amilius,

I found a number of your posts very interesting, and your sources formidable. Without meaning to cause unnecessary confusion, I wanted to inject something I read which, though from a very similar source, contradicts your own findings. I remember reading in J. Krishnamurti's biography of his meetings on the astral plane with various ascended masters and avatars. Hierarchically, he saw Jesus as lower than Buddha, and both of them lower than someone called Lord Maitreya. This was while working within the Theosophical tradition, which he later distanced himself from. I never finished the book, so I don't know if he later came to refute these astral meetings. In any case, it was very real to him at the time.

My own feeling is that it doesn't matter much. It's like when the material sciences go to great lengths, and exhaust considerable sums, in order to more expertly categorize the most minute distinctions among plants and minerals. Granted, we are dealing with less mundane subjects and categories, but is our manner of dealing with them any less mundane? Why do we need to know who was higher? And if enough mediums and yogis testify that so-and-so was the best, what practical purpose will that serve us? Should we disregard lesser teachers, and endeavor to resonate only with the highest? Or wouldn't that be like third graders disregarding their third grade teachers, and attending lectures by college professors? Wouldn't they -- wouldn't we -- be lost?

[DivineLove]

I don't see anything wrong with someone claiming that Jesus was higher than Buddha, or vice versa. I myself would require solid evidence before taking such a position, but the position itself is not offensive to me, and it seems unlikely that the founders of these religions were all perfect equals. Sure, it would be politically correct to say so, and would avoid upsetting some people (who will, no doubt, call us arrogant), but it wouldn't ring true. I don't see equality in the universe anywhere. I see that some are greater in some ways, and less in others, and that this may roughly be approximated as equality. But can we ever really know?

We have no difficulty concluding that a major league ballplayer is better (at least, at baseball) than a five year old. Or that Picasso was a greater artist than Einstein -- who wasn't an artist. But if a large number of people really cared and really believed the five year old was a better ball player, or Einstein was a better artist, would we then be morally compelled to agree that they are equals? So as not to offend anyone, or to seem arrogant? Sure, maybe the five year old will grow up to be the best ballplayer ever, or maybe Einstein in his next life will be a master artist, of whom even Picasso would stand in awe. But right now?

Or, to compare apples to apples: Let's say that one person insists that DaVinci is the greatest artist, while another insists that it is Michelangelo. Here, the comparison is so close, we are really at pains to discover which is better. Generally, we are content to throw up our hands, and chalk it up to a difference in personal taste. No sense fighting over it. Well, don't the same values apply when it comes to religion? My view doesn't change simply because we are dealing with a more emotionally charged issue.

There are certainly clear distinctions. I know that I'm not as evolved as the Buddha. But when it comes to comparing holy people, the distinctions are not as clear. Mostly, I see preferences. If we hold one teacher in higher esteem, it is largely a matter of personal taste. Often, it's because they are the "right" teacher for us at a given time, on a given path. In that sense, we can't say that anyone is equal, since there is always a teacher better suited to us at any given moment, -- even if only because we feel drawn to him/her, and more receptive to the teaching. Let's face it: It's better to be receptive to a pretty good teacher, than unreceptive to even the greatest teacher. And, after hearing it said that "only a poor teacher blames the student", I have to wonder -- If any of these teachers are perfect, why are so many people unreceptive to them?

If we believe what one esoteric teaching says, then we must conclude that whoever your teacher is, at any given moment, is the best teacher for you. Sometimes we learn best what path to walk only by being misled. Sometimes we need a poor teacher to mislead us, before we can recognize (and, so, be ready to learn from) a greater teacher. And so on.

My own feeling, as someone who feels drawn more to Jesus Christ, is that, saying he is "the best" would be like giving your own father a "World's Best Dad" t-shirt. Is he really the world's best dad? I dunno. Probably not. But he's mine. He's the one I feel related to more closely than any other. In that sense, he is the best for me. And if you saw me giving him that shirt, would you really protest? Would you say that it is arrogant, unlikely, and requires proof? Probably not. Probably, you'd think it was touching, and not feel particularly threatened by it. You might even get the same t-shirt and give it to your dad. Of course, then I'd have to declare war. ;)

Of course, if we were to "judge according to the fruits" we might have to conclude that Buddha was the best. I mean, who ever heard of a Buddhist holy war? Then again, it's not over until the fat lady sings; or the four horsemen of the apocalypse hang up their spurs, or whatever.


Amilius,

I found a number of your posts very interesting, and your sources formidable. Without meaning to cause unnecessary confusion, I wanted to inject something I read which, though from a very similar source, contradicts your own findings. I remember reading in J. Krishnamurti's biography of his meetings on the astral plane with various ascended masters and avatars. Hierarchically, he saw Jesus as lower than Buddha, and both of them lower than someone called Lord Maitreya. This was while working within the Theosophical tradition, which he later distanced himself from. I never finished the book, so I don't know if he later came to refute these astral meetings. In any case, it was very real to him at the time.

My own feeling is that it doesn't matter much. It's like when the material sciences go to great lengths, and exhaust considerable sums, in order to more expertly categorize the most minute distinctions among plants and minerals. Granted, we are dealing with less mundane subjects and categories, but is our manner of dealing with them any less mundane? Why do we need to know who was higher? And if enough mediums and yogis testify that so-and-so was the best, what practical purpose will that serve us? Should we disregard lesser teachers, and endeavor to resonate only with the highest? Or wouldn't that be like third graders disregarding their third grade teachers, and attending lectures by college professors? Wouldn't they -- wouldn't we -- be lost?

What a great response Valus! :smile:

Your analogies, are really quite good.

There is so much sound logic here. In the end, it's about the right teacher, for the individual, at that time. I totally agree.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Valus]

Thanks! :D

[DivineLove]

Thanks! :D

Great post Valus!

Really deep stuff. The kind that takes the wind out of conflict, and restores wisdom and balance.

Love is the answer to everything.:hug:

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Amilius777]

Valus-

Yes. And Yogiraj Siddhanath said in his so-called experiences that Jesus' Fuhrer or "Boss" is Babaji the soul essence, the Christos. And Yogananda in his intuition says that Krishna, Jesus, and Buddha are all divine incarnation bringing a different message of the same way which doesn't add up. He also credits Satan to creating sexual pleasure and sex in general and fears him like a sad pup. Edgar Cayce never mentioned the existence of Krishna, but always called Jesus the Master of Masters and saw the afterlife as a soul progression into growth towards the Father and not so much of a hierarchy. Sri Yukteswar in his astral life reported to Yogananda his disciple never mentioning Krishna but saying that Jesus dwells with the Father beyond creation. Levi Dowling who wrote from his intuition The Aquarian Gospel of the Christ states that Jesus went to other countries and criticized their beliefs because they lost connection to God as a personal parent. In James Padgett readings all other prophets of all religions are natural ways, but not until Jesus came was the Truth fully revealed. According Catholic Saints Jesus was God who came in flesh to redirect the divine image in Man back to the Father and bestows the soul with divine grace/love. According to Mahavatar Babaji (either legend or real) says that the way to salvation is Kriya Yoga a breathing technique to get your third eye stimulated and centered in God the Father. According to many Yogis, sex is the original sin and a dirty evil deed that needs to be destroyed. According to Jon Peniel, Douglass Cottrell and Paul Solomon or well known psychics that God stresses to spiritualize the sex pleasure to experience oneness. And in Conversations with God, Buddha, Krishna, and Jesus are spacemen. And in Sylvia Browne's writings there is no sin, no hell, and that Jesus was the greatest exemplar of Truth but never died on a cross like all the above said He Did.

So take your pick. Out of the sand, the ant must find the sugar that is buried under loads of sand. Otherwise everyone above is a crackpot and I wouldn't be surprised!

My girlfriend has her insights because she is a very good psychic, extremely gifted. No tarot card, crystal gazing, tea leave ****. I mean authentically able to sometimes know what your thinking and usually helps her friends and has 100% accurately predicted situations that you just go-" No ...way! there is no way you could have figured that out!"

In my girlfriend's insights, she says that there is no man higher than Jesus. It has nothing to do with religious doctrine, how many powers he used, nor what he said because Buddha and previous prophets spoke about compassion.

She says that Adam (which was one person and a collective nation), had the fullness of God's essence. Or what we call Christ consciousness or Divine Love/Substance. She has used the word substance or essence. And Adam misused his divinity and wanted to be a god instead of be God in nature and action. It had nothing to do with sex or carnal desires. That all came after. Adam's wish to be a god and want more than God and misused his divinity, eventually lost it and failed. His generation all shared this divinity but they followed his pattern and went down the tubes. And it was not until Jesus, a soul who was chosen by God who could be given the full essence of God (christ consciousness/love) could rework the evolution of mankind. Through his sacrifice, torture, death and resurrection he demonstrated how Man must be as God and not as their own god, and that man must do as God does. He also did it to show that Spirit is above matter. And he did not partake of a wife because then he would have been associated with the Earth, because his mission was from Heaven. But having sex would not make an individual less pure and it wouldn't have been a sin. So Jesus was the hope of mankind that we could have a human being, a friend, a brother in oneness with the Father (who is beyond all creation, dimension, and existence).

She also says that buddha was a holy man, a saint like equivalent to a St. Francis or Theresa but not Christ. She said the same with Moses. She also thinks Krishna is a joke and finds him to be a complete mythology equivalent to Hercules, Perseus, or Zeus. Did not exist, but if someone prays to Krishna it will just directly go to God.

She said that everyone thinks they have to "attain" Christ consciousness through procedures, yoga, techniques, or steps. She says that is horse ****. God gives to those who desire and does not desire. It is this strange in between of just being. And so after Jesus' ascension, did others come in his likeness. My girlfriend said that the dispersion of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles has actually be dispersed on all mankind. She says that God's Essence now dwells in many instead of just one (Jesus) at this time. In psychics, yogis, saints, enlightened, etc. But no one has had it the way Jesus did. So now everyone follows the pattern demonstrated by Jesus unlike the pattern demonstrated by Adam.

This is just intuition and doesn't talk about it unless you ask. She is not into dogma or what others believe.

[supernova]

Greater or lower are just analogies and we cannot say who are greats or who are not and you cannot judge. You can judge if you are a higher self than the judged.

The Buddha, Jesus are higher beings than all of us and we are making too many comparisons based from what we have read or heard about them and our reach cannot go beyond that and we simply cannot do just that.

I have read a little bit of the Bible and Buddhist literature and yet I cannot conclusively say who is the greater.

[Valus]

Amilius,

Wow, I'd like to download what's in your head; sounds like you've covered a lot of ground. And your girlfriend sounds cool. My girlfriend has an exact Sun/Neptune conjunction, so I'd expect her to be pretty psychic or something, but I think she mostly represses it. She's very giving and self-effacing, though, which makes sense with that Neptune.

Okay, what I'm about to say is somewhat disjointed, but if you'll read to the end, I think you'd catch where I'm coming from. I thank you in advance for indulging me. I believe it's worthy of your time, and that you may even have some insight to offer me.

I have to confess,

I'm suffering from a serious psychic split. As Goethe put it, "Two souls, alas, dwell within my breast,". But, unlike Goethe, I cannot say for certain that one is holy, the other base. In fact, -- and here's the real confession, -- I believe we are all suffering from this split, which I've only recently become poignantly aware of. Basically, I think we are at odds with the Earth, with matter, with nature, and with the great multiplicity of spirits that inhabit every inch of the sensible world. I think we long to return to the "Eden" of pre-history; when polytheistic, Goddess-worshiping, egalitarian, and ecologically sane cultures were the norm. Before the fall into history. I think we need to embrace the Earth, and learn from indigenous, so-called primitive, peoples if we're going to survive. They never fell.

Listen:

A terrible dissociation has taken place between ourselves and the world. We've developed this idea of matter as evil, and we believe all our attention and energies should be directed to the transcendent; to hell with the immanent. Personally, I believe deeply that the quickest and most reliable method for attaining profound spiritual awareness involves the ingestion of sacred plant medicines. We must be humble enough to seek divinity in a leaf, a vine, or a fungus. I believe this is how humans maintained a healthy symbiotic relationship with the earth, and the Gaian matrix, of which we are a part. The evidence is there, of shamanic cultures which have existed peacefully for hundreds, even thousands, of years. We need to hear what they're saying, before we destroy this planet.

That's one of my souls.

The other one is a lover of Christ, and the monotheistic ideal of One God, who is entirely other; whose place is utterly transcendent and even antithetical to creation. Who "is and is not", as the Upanishads say. The God of subtle, intangible, eternal and celestial things. A god who is a "father", yes, but a father whom no eye has seen. A god who has overcome the world, and who calls me out of the world (while my other soul calls me more deeply into it).

I spoke to a psychic who told me I had many past lives, in very different times and places, and, somehow, they are dialoguing. Somehow, I am unable to discover who I am in this life, because, instead, I am alternately possessed by one and then another of my past lives. I am exhausted trying to mediate between them. But isn't this what happens to all of us, when we look inside ourselves? Don't we realize that we are, after all, fragmented? And isn't that, perhaps, the most vital and truthful way to live is right there, at the crux of our contradictions?

Okay, so, I read three books. The first is "The Chalice and The Blade", the second is "Food of the Gods", and most recently Ralph Metzner's "Green Psychology", -- all of which address the psychospiritual problems of our time from an ecological and historical point of view. More and more I see that psychology cannot be separated from history. More and more I am drawn to consider the larger picture. The diseases of individuals are the mere symptoms of cultural and historical disorders. We need healers who are willing to think big, with the courage to diagnose and prescribe treatments for the whole "civilized" world. Our wounds are deeper than we know, but so is our power to heal; not just one person at a time, -- rather, all of us at once.

I had a vision:

I saw this shamanic figure.. at first he was still, he had chains hanging down all over and around him.. slowly, slowly, he starts to move and dance and soon the chains are spinning around him, and dust is swirling into magical characters like Sanskrit or something, and he has bracelets with little masks on them; skulls and different masks, you know, because the truth has many faces...

This led to a second vision:

Of an anchor, as big as Texas, embedded in the deepest, darkest part of the ocean, with chains as broad as battleships leading up to the surface, but getting imperceptibly smaller, until they pierced the surface and went up into the sky and soon it was just this thin chain, as thin as string, with a kite dancing.. and I felt that both were united in me.. and that angels and demons are equally extreme and absurd, from the perspective of man, whose place it is, not to be an angel, but a man. I felt that I must learn to unite the heaviest and the lightest, without denying the one for the other. They depend on each other, somehow.

Do you see? This is what perplexes me.

I believe I am in the crucible of history at this moment. I am riding the crest of a wave which has been building for millenia. I am aware of my place in history, for the first time, and I'm struggling to see what's coming. Are there demons, or just disowned and demonized parts of ourselves? Are there angels, or just idealized projections? Am i caught between them? Am I meant to become angelic? Or am I meant to be more fully human? Is embracing my humanity, perhaps, the only way to become angelic? Must I even embrace my demons? You know the god Pan was made into the Devil, when the Church got their hands on him. Many ancient gods were made to look ridiculous, and the oldest myths were rewritten by so-called priests with ideological agendas. So much has been scoured away. And so much still tries to reach us, gropingly.

The following is an excerpt from Jung's autobiography:

"Merlin represents an attempt by the medieval unconscious to create a parallel figure to Parsifal. Parsifal is a Christian hero, and Merlin, son of the devil and a pure virgin, is his dark brother. In the twelfth century, when the legend arose, there were as yet no premises by which his intrinsic meaning could be understood. Hence he ended in exile, and hence 'le cri de Merlin' ['the cry of Merlin'] which still sounded from the forest after his death. This cry that no one could understand implies that he lives on in unredeemed form. His story is not yet finished, and he still walks abroad. It might be said that the secret of Merlin was carried on by alchemy, primarily in the figure of Mercurius. Then Merlin was taken up again in my psychology of the unconscious and remains uncomprehended to this day. That is because most people find it quite beyond them to live on close terms with the unconscious. Again and again I have had to learn how hard this is for people."

There is something here, I know it, though I can barely glimpse it. But you know the story of Nasruddin -- the one where he is searching for the key under the lamppost. His friend says, "I don't see it anywhere. I don't think it's here. Are you sure this is where you dropped it?" And Nasruddin replies, "Not at all. I dropped it in the shadows. But I'm looking here because there's light." Something like that. Well, I'm looking in the shadows.. groping to find my way.. because this is where the key has fallen.

And they say, "Who is Moloch? Never heard of him"
as out in the dark Moloch belches
and grows redder and redder
and fatter and fatter
as he eats the children.
Who dares to leave the pool of light?
~ Allen Ginsberg

[Amilius777]

I and my girlfriend would say that the old ways of the Goddess and the Earth are coming back.

They need to! That old and original way of living will balance the way created by Lord Jesus.

My girlfriend always says the Earth is the body-consciousness. And that you do for the body in balance is for the body. Not a sin and not evil. The Churches are stupid. And so are the yogis to her word.

And what you do for the Spirit is spirit-consciousness.

One can do evil in the physical, mental, and spiritual. And one can do good in all three.

I too believe we need to bring back the Mother Goddess combined with God the Father who is transcendent according to Jesus Christ. Unless you already did by telling the Apostles- "The Comforter will come" And we are all being foolish.

I wouldn't worry so much about your past lives and everything else. It seems like we need to be aware of the Spirit, but let us live our lives. I am started to learn to stop worrying about all this **** about sins, past lives, God's this or that, and whatever.

God wants us to live

[Valus]

Thank you for your response. That's the cool-headed approach I was looking for, and I think I intuitively knew would come. I'm not sure about the body-consciousness thing as entirely distinct from the spiritual, though. I think they may be more closely related. Matter and spirit, that is. Thanks again for taking the time to read my jumbled impressions, and for offering your insight.

take care

[Amilius777]

Oh yes, they are definitely related.

I was referring to things of appetite: eating, sexual pleasure, sleeping, and such just pertain to the body and not the spirit. I wholeheartedly disagree that sexual pleasure leads to the Fall.

BULL BULL BULL! I do not care what Babaji said, I don't care what Padgett says, I don't care what Mary Tyler Moore said! I don't care. The sex force is the serpent, it is needed within the body.

The ancient humans as written by Moses cursed the sex force or serpent accrediting it to their Fall. Morons! They and the present day churches are demonizing everything!

There is no Satan in Moses' writings. The only Satan is that aspect of spirit which is desire or self. If Adam or Eve never made a choice of out desire how the f would anything get done?

Desire or the serpent was channeled by Moses through offering it God. It takes a very advanced spiritual soul to do such a thing. But in no way does the serpent refer to sex being evil, or the devil in any matter.

The serpent was also another way for demonizing the divine feminine. To get to Eve, they would get to the Mother Goddess and destroy her. But yes. The Fall of Grace in Eden represents the Fall of Humanity into History and losing the sight of the Goddess. I mean it is now called "His Story" history :rolleyes:. Hehehe.

Anyways. The body-consciousness and all it's appetites can be transcended into spirit. Such masters have done so. And it can not be done overnight. It takes many lifetimes of evolution. Sri Yukteswar did this, Moses did this, Lahiri Mahasaya did this, Buddha did this, Jesus the Christ did this, many have done this.

My beliefs combined my Roman Catholic upbringing, the immanence and earthiness/Mother Goddess of the Wiccan, and the realization of God within us all. I like buddhism but it only goes so far for me. It doesn't connect me with the personal Divine. And Hinduism is great but is shrouded in folklore, myths, polytheism, absurdity of swamis, yogi nutcases and so many other things I can not stand. Except those few like Yukteswar.

Many people like to demonize Roman Catholicism because it is easy. They are the biggest religious institution on the planet. They claim that Roman Catholics have a "sex" problem. This is BULLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is the Protestant Reforms, Evangelicals, and other followers of Bible belt beliefs that have this "sex" problem.

I was brought up on the fact that Adam's sin was wanting to know everything and literally become God and sinned against his purity of being God's son. Where as Jesus reversed his disobedience with the obedience of being a sincere and pure Son and did NOT know everything and acted as a son in everyway and relied completely on the Father as his source and self. And the virgin Mary erased Eve's disobedience by not listening to her individual feelings, but God's Feeling which is the Holy Spirit, her higher self by accepting the birth of the Christ Child.

In Catholicism they encourage married couples to have a free for all in bed. Whatever the hell you want to do is up to you and your spouse. Do whatever you want. They just like to encourage marriage and certain natural ideas.

I will say they need to accept homosexuality and the fact that God truly doesn't care about your physical sex.

Once again I am getting into bodily consciousness. What two men do together has nothing to do with their sexless souls. That is their way of expressing sexual force for one another. Thats their business.

There is nothing wrong with reincarnation. Everyone thinks to reincarnate means they are a piece of ****. Look at Jesus. A perfect and pure soul. He decided to reincarnate to guide humanity and give up himself to give us the new pattern.

God wanted us to enjoy the Earth. To come and go. As Edgar Cayce said- "The human should be able to go underwater and come up above and enjoy both. But it is when we tie a rock to your feet and get stuck to the ocean floor it becomes a problem". The same with the soul. The soul can experience everything under and above Creation and experience the Earth and etc. But it is when we get "obsessed" or "imbalanced" with earthly senses and urges and they begin to control us we become trapped here and always come back working out our problems.

Trust me. If you are on this site you are obviously someone trying to work on their self and relationship with the Divine. If you were an obsessive carnal materialist you wouldn't be on here. And if you were a dark soul you wouldn't be on here.

[Valus]

Are you familiar at all with the work of Mantak Chia,
and the Taoist practice of Sexual Alchemy?

It's fascinating stuff, but requires caution.
Just as in yoga, the kundalini can be stirred up
when you are unprepared for it's effects.
I've heard of people triggering schizophrenia.

I have a special place in my heart for Catholicism,
particularly when I read about how the "cult of Mary"
has struggled and grown within the Catholic Church.

I also just love the pomp and theater of it all,
which are the same things I love about Hinduism.
Although I agree with you about the gurus;
real gurus are few and far between, but,
especially in India, false gurus are abundant.

And I agree, for the most part,
the Church gets a bad reputation.
Popular Catholicism, as the masses receive it,
is a far cry from the official positions of the Church,
which are often surprisingly tolerant.

However,
if the Church had more integrity,
it would do more to make its positions clear,
even if that risks alienating many believers.

Also, covering up sexual abuse scandals is bogus.
And the fact that the Pope has his own city
really smacks of hypocrisy, when you hear how
Jesus advocated renouncing material wealth,
and storing up treasure in heaven.
Most of the treasure on earth is stored up
somewhere in the Vatican City, lol.

I love the Cayce quote.
Yes, reincarnation is not something to escape;
the real issue is with attachment.

The same is true of sex, or anything.
Ultimately, it's about attachment.
The Buddhists got that right.

After all, a bodhisattva is one who renounces Nirvana,
and reincarnates, in order to liberate all sentient beings.

From studying mythology and history,
I've come upon some interesting interpretations
of the Garden of Eden myth.

I most agree with the one which says that the invention
of Eve was an attempt to reduce the Goddess to a mortal,
and to slander the Goddess-worshiping religions,
whose rituals and celebrations involved partaking
of sacred fruit, or some kind of entheogenic plant,
and communicating with serpents (and other animals).

That myth is a symptom, but also a source,
of our historic alienation from the natural world.
When God says "Cursed is the ground for thy sake,"
it really does a number on our psyches.

Such curses shouldn't be taken lightly.
They are real, if they are believed to be real.
And so many people believed them.

Oh, well. Onward and upward!

[CK39]

The eighth initiation in Raja/Kriya Yoga is the raising of the massive golden serpent from the genital area to the life centers through the death zone. If one does this as a stand alone yoga tradition they then bring it into the Eye of Ra (in front of the forehead). If the male kundalini is raised successfully (playing in the death zone can be real tricky) one becomes very powerful and long lived. Basically a god without needing God.
The Egyptian Pharaohs and the some of the Druid folk were masters of this.
The problem with the male kundalini is that it has no heart. It is just pure living power. And it is considered by some the foundation of self realization, you are god.
love, CK

[Valus]

Interesting, CK.

[james108]

We are all a piece of God and all equal, but the only difference is that Jesus never fell away from God like we did. Hence he is one of the top people to bring us home to God.

[Amilius777]

I agree.

I am still evolving in my beliefs. But in "MY" beliefs, Jesus stands supreme. Not because he was God, not because he was the only divine soul, not because his religion has dominated the West,

but because it was He who since the time of the Adamic generation, that has fully, perfectly, and wholeheartedly bridged the gap between the Divine and Human Nature. And this was fulfilled in his suffering, death, and resurrection.

Moses may plant, Buddha may water, St Paul may preach, but it is in Jesus Christ that God gives the increase to his Divine Love. Following Jesus' pattern.

[DivineLove]

I agree.

I am still evolving in my beliefs. But in "MY" beliefs, Jesus stands supreme. Not because he was God, not because he was the only divine soul, not because his religion has dominated the West,

but because it was He who since the time of the Adamic generation, that has fully, perfectly, and wholeheartedly bridged the gap between the Divine and Human Nature. And this was fulfilled in his suffering, death, and resurrection.

Moses may plant, Buddha may water, St Paul may preach, but it is in Jesus Christ that God gives the increase to his Divine Love. Following Jesus' pattern.

Well said Amilius.

Many great teachers. Those who have passed, and those still yet to come.

As to Divine, fully Divine, being at-one with God. While in the flesh. Jesus was the first, and according to these publications, the only human being to fully undergo this process, while still in a human body.

I too agree, that he stands supreme. As the most advanced soul. The most qualified, to teach all of mankind. Teaching all of mankind is no small task.

And neither is his place, small, but rather, he is made Master of the Celestial Kingdom, where God's children have become daughters and sons, fully divine, at-one with the Holy Father. Jesus is Master of these Heavens.
Following Jesus, is the path of Christ. It leads to these High Heavens. While other paths are great, and offer their respective rewards, the path of Christ leads to the Highest Heavens, throughout all Eternity.

I wish to share an excerpt I read, from a message received by Dr. David R. Lampron, dated, Jan 10/90. This is a portion of the entire message, from Jesus, it touches upon re-incarnation, and in it, Jesus explains why re-incarnation is not possible.
(Here is the link to the entire article. All of the formal messages received by Dr. David R. Lampron, can be found at this link as well.
http://www.fcdt.org/messages/dl_presentationoftruths.htm

Jesus,

In other messages, I have made plain that a soul can never be divested of its spirit body, which contains it, in order to make its way into the womb of yet another mortal. And, so, this fact alone is sufficient to make clear that there are no repeated incarnations; the mortal body is temporal whereas the spirit body, so far as is known, is eternal. However, we do appreciate some of the struggles that beset the minds of men who are seeking to understand how the perfect workings of a just God could occur without the apparent need for successive lifetimes of improvement and advancement on earth. But the answer, dear ones, is that the perfect workings of God's Laws are no less served on the spirit side of life. For it is there that all the questions and concerns a believer in reincarnation may have are truly answered and reconciled, and not on earth where but the kindergarten of man's soulful evolution begins.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Amilius777]

I know two very gifted psychics who have their "insight" on Jesus. And they are very similar to Padgett. They say the same thing to take people with Edgar Cayce and Yogananda with a grain of salt.

Both of them do say that reincarnation is a fact. They do say that many of us have had several past lives to get it right in this plane.

They both say that Buddha was a prophet and lived several lives before to become enlightened. Same with Moses. Same with Elijah. They also say that St. Peter and St. Paul had past lives in the Bible and have come back as "Catholic" Saints. But they didn't touch upon which ones.

They both also did say, that Jesus and the Virgin Mary had ONE lifetime and were perfect and pure. And they "got it right" so to speak. But more Jesus than Mary. Jesus became the Christ and both say he opened the gate for all souls. Because we all were in Heaven with our Father in the beginning, but we separated/condemned ourselves. And Jesus brought us salvation and hope for mankind but the offering up of self on the Cross. Not to die for our sins, not to spill blood for God's enjoyment, but that Man could have a mediator between the Father and Mankind.

[Miss Hepburn]

We are all a piece of God and all equal, but the only difference is that Jesus never fell away
from God like we did. Hence he is one of the top people to bring us home to God.He never fell away ---in Eastern thought that is called Hansa the pure soul - represented by a swan or a lotus.
Yes, I learned - we all went out and got attached to the maya or ego or illusion or simply being a tree, or human
and forgot our way back.
Thus, bread crumbs have been left throughout the ages by the masters.
Jesus, so-called the Son - went out on the exhale of creation, as we all did, experienced all and simply returned
to the bosom of his Father never forgetting who he was. Pure.

[Amilius777]

I am glad you liked that post Miss Hepburn. Thank you :hug3:

I agree with you that Jesus would be considered the Hansa in Hinduism. The pure soul who did not forget his oneness with the Father.

Origen of the Early Church wrote something similar. He was considered as heretic because he believed in the souls' pre-existence, it's immortality, its ability to reincarnate into whatever it pleased, the Logos as a spirit/essence, and the goal of all life to become at-one with the Father.

Origen also taught that Christ was the soul who never left the presence of the Logos on The Other Side. And along with Mary, came down into flesh not by his will, but by the Will of God to teach Man and fulfill the Scriptures.

If you think about it Origen comes to closet to what makes sense and what connects to the Bible.

Yogananda has this theory which I one time accepted and no longer do because it doesn't make sense. He says that John and Jesus were Elijah and Elisha and their roles switched and Jesus became Christ. He also says that Elijah, Moses, and Jesus were equaled Masters.

BULL! Why? After Moses led the Hebrew People out of Egypt, he commanded Joshua his mouthpiece to wipe out of all the villages and towns filled with women and children and create a massive genocide so that the Hebrews did not mingle with the blood of other races. That is screwed up if you ask me, with Moses operating under the Law of Karma and not Grace. Which is why he was NOT the Christ.

Elijah is also responsible for the death of 400 Prophets of Baal. He had them all killed and slaughtered. The irony in Cayce's readings is that those prophets reincarnated as the Pharisees and King Herod and had an "unconscious" revenge on Elijah when he was John the Baptist thus his beheading. This I can agree with on Edgar Cayce unlike Yogananda.

This ended John's spiritual development by giving up himself as a lowly beggar and being beheaded for the witness of the Christ. It reversed his disgrace of murdering those prophets, and gave him divine grace. This is from the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas you can get at Barnes and Noble. And I sort of agree with this statement, that Elijah truly finished his soul development in accepting to be the first martyr of the "Church".

And I have decided to move on from Edgar Cayce. I use him as a reverence at times, and I believe Yogananda's two mentors Lahiri Mahayasa and Yukteswar were all Christlike psychics/prophets. But I take everyone with a grain of salt now. And I stopped believing that Jesus was Adam, Melchizedek, Enoch, Joshua, Joseph, Jeshua, and some dude named Zend.

Why? Because it sounds bogus. Why would the Messiah need more than one life to learn anything? Isn't that why he is called the Messiah???!! Besides it destroys "individual achievement". Which is what is wonderful about Tolkien's LOTR compared to Lewis' Narnia. In Tolkien's books there are countless Christlike heroes who embody that mission and that is the point of humanity.

In my opinion:

All souls were with the Father, within the Christos (christ consciousness). Souls went out and began to play at creation and lost their way in flesh and other matters of different worlds. This was the fall of the angels.

Adam was created to be the first divine human to exercise the fullness of the Christos within. But Adam disobeyed God and took the "fruit" which was carnal knowledge. Or what we call duality- good and evil. Thus everything that was ONE, went to become Two. God and Man separated due to Adam's desire to want more than what God gave him and not working with the Divine Will. So Adam as the first manifestation of the Christos fell in the flesh.

Throughout the history of the world, mankind was spread out and went from unity into division and multiplied. As man damned himself/separated he became many nations and peoples. In India, the techniques of Yoga and Kundalini rising survived as ways of cleansing the chakras. Egypt, Greece, Persia, and India all were at one time one people but fell away. All of them had this "Sun" God- Ra, Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Krishna. They were all awaiting the One who would change everything.

God chose the Hebrew People because of Abraham's surrender to the Truth, with no mixes of polytheism, no fanfare, no nothing. Simply that there is the One God that created all and nothing more. Abraham was the evolved man from those ancient days. Thus he is our father. From him on began to the Christ promise. And it was through the Jews in their caretaking and covenants that would bring the Messiah. Then came many souls who could have been Christ- Moses, Joshua, King David, Solomon, Elijah, etc. All of them were considered but missed the mark of purity and the fullness of the Christos. So they are all honored as "christs", souls who eventually attained Christhood.

And finally 2,000 years ago when the Covenants were coming to a close, and the Jewish religion was becoming corrupt with self-righteous Belialian priests, occupation by the Roman Empire, and the world was plunging into a dark age, God sent his Word/Son, sent his soul-companion- Jesus. Mary incarnated and accepted to be the mother. Jesus was conceived through the way Adam was created. Jesus was little by little given the fullness of the Christos. Through his life, he was a carpenter, a miracle child worker, and a smart aleck to those moronic Temple priests. As he entered his teenage years, his Divine Consciousness was beginning to unfold (not develop) as his human self was growing like all Men do. He went to India to honor the wise men who came to him. He learned how to keep his consciousness fully centered in the seventh center. He learned cleansing of the body and transcended the carnal temptations. He went to Persia and then Egypt. John the Baptist began to mentor Jesus in his mission. John then initiated Jesus into the "Church" with baptism to fulfill all righteousness that in God everything is one and equal.
After he was initiated, Jesus went to the desert with the fullness of the Christos as the Holy Spirit did descend on him. He went into the desert to test that God-power as Adam was tested. Jesus overcame all of Adam's temptations in the desert of misusing his Divinity with his human self. After that Jesus was able to keep his human nature in alignment with his divine nature. He began his ministry, preached to the Jews and Gentiles, etc. Formulated the Supper with the Apostles, the Bread (Body), and Blood (Spirit) of Christ. That Jesus had the body, mind, and spirit of Christ, the wholeness and only through consuming these can you be like him. He was betrayed, tortured, took on his Apostles' sin, took on his People and Roman's sins. And warred with the human and divine self as he went through his crucifixion. His divine self won on the Cross and died. After death, the three days symbolized how he conquered the physical, astral, and causal body. He then resurrected from the dead and returned to the Apostles. The NEW pattern was created and he ascended giving them the Holy Spirit, the deliverer of the Christos within. The aspect of God that awakens our inner divine image. The Apostles then spread the Christ Spirit unto the world.

Jesus now dwells in the realm beyond creation with the Father, but he can manifest anywhere and anyway he pleases and works completely in accord to the Father's will. Jesus is a sort of God of his own, fully developed soul. As he said to them- "yee are gods!".

Sorry that was long. :D

[Miss Hepburn]

.....

And finally 2,000 years ago when the Covenants were coming to a close, and the Jewish religion was becoming corrupt with self-righteous Belialian priests, occupation by the Roman Empire, and the world was plunging into a dark age, God sent his Word/Son, sent his soul-companion- Jesus. Mary incarnated and accepted to be the mother. Jesus was conceived through the way Adam was created. Jesus was little by little given the fullness of the Christos. Through his life, he was a carpenter, a miracle child worker, and a smart aleck to those moronic Temple priests. As he entered his teenage years, his Divine Consciousness was beginning to unfold (not develop) as his human self was growing like all Men do.
He went to India to honor the wise men who came to him. He learned how to keep his consciousness fully centered in the seventh center. He learned cleansing of the body and transcended the carnal temptations. He went to Persia and then Egypt. John the Baptist began to mentor Jesus in his mission. John then initiated Jesus into the "Church" with baptism to fulfill all righteousness that in God everything is one and equal. After he was initiated, Jesus went to the desert with the fullness of the Christos as the Holy Spirit did descend on him. He went into the desert to test that God-power as Adam was tested. Jesus overcame all of Adam's temptations in the desert of misusing his Divinity with his human self. After that Jesus was able to keep his human nature in alignment with his divine nature.
He began his ministry, preached to the Jews and Gentiles, etc. Formulated the Supper with the Apostles, the Bread (Body), and Blood (Spirit) of Christ. That Jesus had the body, mind, and spirit of Christ, the wholeness and only through consuming these can you be like him. He was betrayed, tortured, took on his Apostles' sin, took on his People and Roman's sins. And warred with the human and divine self as he went through his crucifixion.
His divine self won on the Cross and died. After death, the three days symbolized how he conquered the physical, astral, and causal body. He then resurrected from the dead and returned to the Apostles. The NEW pattern was created and he ascended giving them the Holy Spirit, the deliverer of the Christos within. The aspect of God that awakens our inner divine image. The Apostles then spread the Christ Spirit unto the world.

Jesus now dwells in the realm beyond creation with the Father, but he can manifest anywhere and anyway he pleases and works completely in accord to the Father's will. Jesus is a sort of God of his own, fully developed soul. As he said to them- "Ye are gods!".
Now, that was an education - thank you for doing all the research for me.

What is"Origen" ?

[Shabda]

Now, that was an education - thank you for doing all the research for me

What is"Origen" ? Origen was an early christian scholar...many KJV christians call him many other names however lol...they dont like him much, but they are also many times very prejudiced, the ones ive spoken to anyways...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen

[DivineLove]

Origen was an early christian scholar...many KJV christians call him many other names however lol...they dont like him much, but they are also many times very prejudiced, the ones ive spoken to anyways...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%252 52Fwiki%25252FOrigen) Come come now Shabda, prejudiced Christians? Surely you jest! :wink:

[Shabda]

Come come now Shabda, prejudiced Christians? Surely you jest! :wink: i wish i were jesting...they are so set in their point of view that they actually insist that i am the Anti Christ, i am not joking...i dont think that Jesus himself would say that about me, but they do...they would say the same about you, for being interested in ANY material where the words of Jesus are channeled, i kid you not...not all KJV Christians are so closed minded, but ive met a few on another forum that are VERY insistent that they understand correctly, and all others are the unwitting slaves of Satan...they insist that the KJV of the Bible is the ONLY correct translation/version of the Bible, and that it IS the literal word of God, and the ONLY word of God on earth...never mind that it was written by men, and that that version had much to do with allowing Henry IIIV to be re-married and allowed him to disregard the Pope and the entire Catholic church, also that it was translated in the...what was it? the 1500's?? anyhow, they dont seem to have much Divine Love issuing forth from them, and certainly little forgiveness...ahh well, some days you'll have that i guess lol...

[DivineLove]

i wish i were jesting...they are so set in their point of view that they actually insist that i am the Anti Christ, i am not joking...i dont think that Jesus himself would say that about me, but they do...they would say the same about you, for being interested in ANY material where the words of Jesus are channeled, i kid you not...not all KJV Christians are so closed minded, but ive met a few on another forum that are VERY insistent that they understand correctly, and all others are the unwitting slaves of Satan...they insist that the KJV of the Bible is the ONLY correct translation/version of the Bible, and that it IS the literal word of God, and the ONLY word of God on earth...never mind that it was written by men, and that that version had much to do with allowing Henry IIIV to be re-married and allowed him to disregard the Pope and the entire Catholic church, also that it was translated in the...what was it? the 1500's?? anyhow, they dont seem to have much Divine Love issuing forth from them, and certainly little forgiveness...ahh well, some days you'll have that i guess lol...

Shabda, I hear you loud and clear.
That is how I began this journey. On a very rigid Christian forum. They threw scripture at me, they said it was the devil's work. LOL!!! :smile:
The book of Dueteronomy, one of the Old Testament Books. That was a very popular choice.

Ironic, that people, who clearly have a great love for Jesus, would never consider the notion, just the possibility, that he may actually be working really hard, present day, to reach man kind and further our knowledge.

What do people suppose spirits do? All day long? Especially High Spirits, like Jesus?
I would think, that he would be quite busy, trying to deliver Truth.

The Bible, as we all know, has been handled by men. All kinds of things have been inserted and removed.

In Dr. Lampron's message, Peter, one of the Disciples, stated that Jesus spends a great deal of time training mediums, to receive his truths.

It will be difficult, for me, to accept another source. Because any time there is a claim, that a medium has made contact with Jesus, that material, must be scrutinized closely, for accuracy, for consistency, to ensure to the best of our ability, that we are dealing with the same author.

It will be challenging, but if God and Jesus want mankind to hear about certain spiritual truths, like Divine Love, like the afterlife, the soul, soul development, many spiritual subjects.
Men will not be able to stop such efforts. Although they will try.

Truth will always find the light of day.:hug3:

These teachings, of Divine Love, will spread. And the messages that Dr. Lampron received from Jesus, and other Disciples, indicate that the High Spirits are anticipating a time, where men in power will try to discredit this work all together.

Here is that very message, received by Dr. David Lampron, from Peter, one of Jesus's Disciples.

http://www.fcdt.org/messages/dl_personalmessageofsupportfrompeter.htm

Shabda, it is good then, that we have found some respite here.
A place where the mix, tends to lean more towards the spiritual, and less towards fundamentalist religious.
Even the Christians here, that I have befriended. I believe that they would consider themselves spiritual, instead of religious.

That is certainly how I would describe myself. Religion, is a man made thing.
Spirituality, is that which is both here, and of that which lies beyond.

God's Love and Blessings to All! :hug3:

[Shabda]

yes indeed~! it is interesting, that just last night i was having this same discussion, on yet another forum, these folks that run this forum were banned from the first forum for debating these same christians ad nauseum...the folks at this new forum are of all different types of spiritual paths, and the beauty of it is, that NONE of us argue that "our" way is more right than another's, we each accept the other despite their spiritual path and point of view being different than ours, and there is peace, we all get along with each other...
i posted a quote that i received in my email yesterday, that was on this same specific subject, and i will post it here as well, and this quote comes from a muslim sufi, i think he has it right...on another note, i know a woman on a completely different forum, whis is the pastor of her church,
she is also a KJV Christian, and she tells me that at her church they openly welcome pagans, those who are witches, with no attempt to change their religion, or tell them they are going to hell, as she sees it, she is doing the job she is supposed to be doing, helping anyone that wants her help, to achieve heaven,
i find that to be a refreshing point of view, and one that contains a far greater amount of Divine Love than many others ive talked to, and how different is that? from the point of view of those i mentioned in the first place...in my opinion, THEY are the ones that satan has successfully deceived, just my opinion...now for that quote, followed by the author's commentary on what he means, with a story about Moses that illustrates the point very well...
i find the fact that we are having this conversation, so soon after it was a topic at several other places, a sort of cosmic poetry, the Divine making a point to me, it is a truly beautiful thing~!
"If people but knew their own religion, how tolerant they would become, and how free from any grudge against the religion of others."
Bowl of Saki, January 8, by Hazrat Inayat Khan
commentary:"The (limited) happiness of this world is something we cannot keep; it is just like the horizon - the nearer you go, the farther it goes. As soon as you get it, you see it is not the thing you wanted. That discontent continues its work till we have found and understood the manifestation of God, in which is hidden the Divine Spirit. God cannot be found in temples, for God is Love; and love does not live in temples, but in the heart of man, which is the temple of God. The true religion would be to recognize it is so and to tolerate, to forgive and to love each other.
There is a story told of Moses. One day he was passing through a farm, and he saw a peasant boy sitting quietly and talking to himself, saying, 'O God, I love you so; if I saw you here in these fields I would bring you soft bedding and delicious dishes to eat, I would take care that no wild animals could come near you. You are so dear to me, and I so long to see you; if you only knew how I love you I am sure you would appear to me!'

Moses heard this, and said, 'Young man, how dare you speak of God in this way? He is the formless God, and no wild beast or bird could injure Him who guards and protects all.' The young man bent his head sorrowfully and wept. Something was lost to him, and he felt most unhappy. And then a revelation came to Moses as a voice from within which said, 'Moses, what have you done? You have separated a sincere lover from Me. What does it matter what I am called or how I am spoken to? Am I not in all forms?'

This story throws a great light on this question, and teaches that it is only the ignorant who accuse one another of a wrong conception of God. It teaches us how gentle we ought to be with the faith of another; as long as he has the spark of the love of God, this spark should be slowly blown upon so that the flame may rise; if not, that spark will be extinguished. How much the spiritual development of mankind in general depends upon a religious man! He can either spread the light or diminish it by forcing his belief on others.

Very often a person thinks that other people should believe in and worship his God. But everyone has his own conception of God, and this conception becomes the stepping-stone to the true ideal of God.
Nature teaches every soul to worship God in some way or other, and often provides that which is suitable for each. Those who want one law to govern all have lost sight of the spirit of their own religion. And it is in people who have not yet learned their own religion that such ideas are commonly found. Did they but know their own religion, how tolerant they would become, and how free from any grudge against the religion of others!"

[DivineLove]

yes indeed~! it is interesting, that just last night i was having this same discussion, on yet another forum, these folks that run this forum were banned from the first forum for debating these same christians ad nauseum...the folks at this new forum are of all different types of spiritual paths, and the beauty of it is, that NONE of us argue that "our" way is more right than another's, we each accept the other despite their spiritual path and point of view being different than ours, and there is peace, we all get along with each other...i posted a quote that i received in my email yesterday, that was on this same specific subject, and i will post it here as well, and this quote comes from a muslim sufi, i think he has it right...on another note, i know a woman on a completely different forum, whis is the pastor of her church, she is also a KJV Christian, and she tells me that at her church they openly welcome pagans, those who are witches, with no attempt to change their religion, or tell them they are going to hell, as she sees it, she is doing the job she is supposed to be doing, helping anyone that wants her help, to achieve heaven,i find that to be a refreshing point of view, and one that contains a far greater amount of Divine Love than many others ive talked to, and how different is that? from the point of view of those i mentioned in the first place...in my opinion, THEY are the ones that satan has successfully deceived, just my opinion...now for that quote, followed by the author's commentary on what he means, with a story about Moses that illustrates the point very well...i find the fact that we are having this conversation, so soon after it was a topic at several other places, a sort of cosmic poetry, the Divine making a point to me, it is a truly beautiful thing~!.... This is truly one of the most beautiful passages I have read in a long time.

Beautiful, and full of truth.

I know that I have expressed preference, in the teachings that I follow. I know that this at times, has been over-emphasized. But I think our dialogue, and our friendship, which has emerged, in light of completely different views and beliefs, I think that also says something.
In the time I spent learning of your path, I gained a great deal of knowledge. And although we are not in agreement on most things, in essence, we are basically striving towards God. Reaching for God's Divine Love.
What more would we need to have in common? This alone, is a great deal.:smile:God cannot be found in temples, for God is Love; and love does not live in temples, but in the heart of man, which is the temple of God. This is like really beautiful, and powerful.
this spark should be slowly blown upon so that the flame may rise; if not, that spark will be extinguished.This is very precious, and I agree, should be nurtured, above all things. Even in the light of differing beliefs, I think this should be upheld, and nurtured.

For this very reason, I try to post mainly on this channel, on the Christian channel. Because this is the only channel, where my opinions and beliefs, would be less likely to offend or bother others.
If I express preference in Jesus's teachings, I feel that I am doing so, on a channel that shares, more or less, similar views. And would not take offense to me showing a preference. And instead, is perceived as an affirmation.

Really great post Shabda. Very profound material. I thank you for sharing that with all of us. Everyone, would directly benefit from reading your last post.

[Shabda]

thank you~! i posted that quote because i thought that you would see it's beauty and truth...it makes no difference if we see things differently and choose completely different paths to find God, what does matter is that we try, and also that we allow others the freedom to try for the same in the way that fits them best...i have spent much time studying many of the earth's religions, and what ive found is that a great many of them teach essentially the same thing, although in different ways, languages, differing names for God, etc., and this is why i come to the christian topic occasionally and post, because i find nothing wrong with christianity, or any other religion, even if they dont fit me in this life, it's all very much the same, and there is literally a way for everyone, with our varying opinions and points of view, and to me this is a thing of literal beauty, displayed by the fact that you and i both find truth in that quote, even though neither of us is a muslim mystic, and THAT is where we begin to transcend any one religion, and see the truth within them all respectively, even if we do not choose to take them all, and prefer one or another, we allow others the freedom to choose their own way, and that in itself is a practice of Divine Love, see? God has spoken to both of us, and several others as well as i was telling you, and to me, the most beautiful thing is that God can speak to so many, of differing religions, and make the exact same point to all~!

[DivineLove]

thank you~! i posted that quote because i thought that you would see it's beauty and truth...it makes no difference if we see things differently and choose completely different paths to find God, what does matter is that we try, and also that we allow others the freedom to try for the same in the way that fits them best...i have spent much time studying many of the earth's religions, and what ive found is that a great many of them teach essentially the same thing, although in different ways, languages, differing names for God, etc., and this is why i come to the christian topic occasionally and post, because i find nothing wrong with christianity, or any other religion, even if they dont fit me in this life, it's all very much the same, and there is literally a way for everyone, with our varying opinions and points of view, and to me this is a thing of literal beauty, displayed by the fact that you and i both find truth in that quote, even though neither of us is a muslim mystic, and THAT is where we begin to transcend any one religion, and see the truth within them all respectively, even if we do not choose to take them all, and prefer one or another, we allow others the freedom to choose their own way, and that in itself is a practice of Divine Love, see? God has spoken to both of us, and several others as well as i was telling you, and to me, the most beautiful thing is that God can speak to so many, of differing religions, and make the exact same point to all~!

Shabda, this was a most potent lesson.
And the light in which you have presented this material, is very moving.:hug:

I hope many people read this excellent post that you've shared.

[Amilius777]

It still is very apparent in the Old Testament writers from the psychic/prophets who predicted Jesus that he was a prophet who would be chosen by God, a shepherd rooted upward, and would give the final revelation. In many of the Old Testament writings, I believe it was Jeremiah, said that God would dwell with his people in Jerusalem when the Messiah came.

If you think about it Christians are right to say that God did descend in flesh to speak to his children through Jesus.

But it seems like it is taken too far.

In one way, God was fully manifested in Jesus' life, teachings, actions, purpose, and nature.

It is in my opinion to believe that God or the Christ Spirit (holy spirit), took up the life of the Man Jesus. Thus God made Jesus into a gateway or image of Himself. So calling Christ- God is fine. When Christians pray to Jesus Christ as God I find nothing wrong with it. They may not get how that all works, or that God purposely used Jesus as his face and soul/body as a connection to Man. Because technically Christ is God. And Christ is not a Man. Christ is that universal spirit within everybody waiting to be awakened.

So if you want to think this, it makes sense. That Jesus allowed himself to be used as God's embodiment to bring the final revelation and salvation on how to become one with God.

But many people mistaken Jesus' life. They believe because he forgave sins, cured the blind, cured this, performed that, saved him, resurrected that guy. etc makes him God.

Well Elijah, Moses, Elisha, Joshua, and many others all did THIS! Read your Old Testament! Then what makes Jesus special? If they all had the Holy Spirit, if they were all influenced by the Spirit of Christ, what was different with Jesus?

Jesus became the Christ! That is the difference. Not that he is God exactly. But that he showed how Man in his soul is truly one with God by nature. God made him divine, but he has lost his way. Thus Jesus has returned our true nature in his life, death, resurrection. In receiving the fullness of the Christ Spirit, he was one with the Father and BECAME a member with God our Father and the Universal Holy Spirit, as Christ the Son. He became the Son in the Trinity. Before that there was no Godhead, no mediator for Man until Jesus came.

[LightFilledHeart]

Jesus became the Christ! That is the difference. Not that he is God exactly. But that he showed how Man in his soul is truly one with God by nature. God made him divine


God made us all divine. We can all access what Jesus did, i.e., christ consciousness and becine truly one with God my nature. That is the whole purpose of seeking enlightenment and the main and primary teaching of the man Jesus.

[DivineLove]

Jesus became the Christ! That is the difference. Not that he is God exactly. But that he showed how Man in his soul is truly one with God by nature. God made him divine


God made us all divine. We can all access what Jesus did, i.e., christ consciousness and becine truly one with God my nature. That is the whole purpose of seeking enlightenment and the main and primary teaching of the man Jesus.

LightFIlledHeart, (Great name by the way!:smile:)

That is my understanding as well. For the most part.

Christ, is of God. It is His Divine Essence, His Divine Substance, that fills the soul, changing the natural soul, into a Divine Soul.
Jesus became the Christ. The first of his kind. And shows us the way, to this very process, this at-one-ment, with God, the Holy Father.

There is one detail, which was very important in these books, that I have come across, and which really underlines a great distinction.

Jesus teaches, that God is Divine. God is a Divine Being. And He can share His Divine Substance with any of His children, who seek His Divine Love, His Divine Substance.

But Jesus, is very clear, in trying to make us realize, that we are not naturally, Divine.

The created soul, the natural soul of man, is not Divine.
It is a natural soul. And with it, that soul can love, and certainly there are great notions of divinity.

There are notions of divinity, in religion. In art work, which is said to be divinely inspired. The notions are many.

When I point out this distinction, I notice people tend to get a little unsettled at reading such a claim. Be that, as it may.
Jesus teaches, that only God is Divine. And that we are not born divine.

If you look at human history, human civilization. If you step back, and look at all the atrocities, that mankind has participated in, it becomes quite clear, that we, as a whole, are very far from anything divine.

If we were born divine, or had divine within us, I doubt the world, would be in the condition it is now in. Nor would our history be so skewed in brutal acts of aggression, hostility, war, etc.

People like to believe, that there is something divine within.

And while I am sorry, if Jesus's firm teaching, says otherwise, still I feel I must point out this very important detail.

Within the created man, the natural man, the natural sol. There is not a single drop of Divine Essence.

God, is the only Divine Being. And Christ, is the greatest achievement a soul can undergo, because through Christ, God's Divine Substance, then begins to flow into the natural soul, and slowly replaces that natural substance, with God's Divine Substance.

This is why a rapport with God, is necessary, to reach one's full spiritual potential. Because in our quest for Divinity, at-one-ment with God, can not be bypassed. It cannot be circumvented.

The Being, who has Created all of us, out of Love, and Light, we must at one point or another, in our development, nurture a relationship with God.

Many, do not, or have not reached that point. And for the better part of my life, I thought that God was a distant notion. I felt quite complete in my Eastern practices. I thought that I was spiritually independent, and regarded religion as nonsense.

As it turns out, while I was free to practice anything I desired. The greatest achievement, is the acquisition of God's Love, His Divine Substance. Because we do not have This Substance, naturally, within our souls. It must come slowly, through soulful prayer, from the only Being in all of existence who is Truly Divine, Our Holy Father, The Supreme Creator.

I know that this claim upsets many people, who have a different perspective. These are people who believe that the divine is in all of us. And that God is in everything. And that we are all, a part of God.

To those people, I gently say,
that God, is God alone.
Jesus, became Divine, through constant prayer to The Holy Father. And this is the method, the process which he teaches.
While God has literally Created everything, that does not mean that He resides IN everything, in all of His Creations.

For Christ, for the Divine Essence, we must turn to God, for He is the only Being that is Truly Divine, Eternal, and has the ability to Give of His Essence to His children.

This is my understanding.

Again, I am sorry, if this goes against new age philosophies, that we are all divine, we are all a part of God. We are all One.
There are many beliefs. Let everyone believe whatever feels most true to them.

While divine notions "sound" very comforting, I would much rather, the Truth.

And the Truth, is that our human race, is very far from anything naturally Divine. Look at any time period, in any culture. You will see the exact opposite of Divine.

But True Divinity is possible, for those who seek Divinity. God is LOVE. Infinite Love. And His Great Love, is never withheld, from anyone.

It must be sought for. Christ is not something you awaken to, or something that is within your given power, as a natural soul, to manifest.

Christ is of God, and so we must turn to God, if we are seeking His Divine Substance. His Divine Love, over the natural love within our souls.

For anyone who does not understand the difference, or who likes to believe in divine notions, without connecting with God. That is certainly your right.

Everyone here is entitled to believe whatever they choose to believe.

And I am trying, to point out a very important subtlety, in our understanding of what is Truly Divine, vs. mere notions of divinity.

Truly Divine, comes from God, and accumulates slowly, over time. Christ is the result of the inflowing of God's Divine Love, into the natural soul. The Fullness of God's Divine Love.

Divine notions, and True Divinity, are very different, in real life.

Jesus, was a true example, of Divinity. The first of his kind. And the path He teaches, is called a Divine Path. Because it leads to God's Divine Love, which replaces your natural substance, of your natural soul.

If we assume, that the divine is already present within us, then that is somewhat dangerous, in that it can prevent one, from seeking that which is Truly Divine.

I know, that it would be far easier, for me to believe, that within me is the divine. And that I am a part of God. And that no further work is required.

That is very easy to believe.

What I know to be true, is that I am a child of God. And I have in front of me, the opportunity to partake of God's Very Substance, through Christ. I have an opportunity, to become at-one with our Holy Father.

When we actually look, at humanity. Look at the human race. And see that there is nothing except divine notions.
See that only God, is Truly Divine, and to develop and attain to Christ, is a labor or LOVE. It is hard work. Because it comes from God. Divinity comes from a Divine Being. Not from the natural soul, and our natural abilities.

I work, every single day, to try and receive from God, His Divine Love, His Divine Substance, within my soul. Because I cannot rest in "notions" of divinity. Instead, I choose to see the wisdom that Jesus presents, and I reach for that which is Truly Divine.

So I apologize, in advance, if my views, unsettle anyone, or present a viewpoint that goes against what they believe.
My intention, is not to cause any disharmony.
I respect everyone's right to believe and practice whatever they desire, and whatever feels true.

Please extend the same courtesy to me.

God's Love and Blessing's to All! :hug3:

[Lamby]

Thank you, DivineLove, for making this topic.

This is a very timely and useful read for me.

I'll pm you separately with some info I'd been recently reading regarding nontrinitarianism.

In love and light,
Lamby

[hybrid]

everything is divine, it is our projections that are not.
it's no different when your in love,...
everything is beautiful.
when hateful, the world can go to hell.

in the end it is our perception that needs redeeming,
so us to see the holiness and sacredness of all things.

.