Looking For Afterlife Evidence...

[Scibat]

...That I can believe in.

Long story short:

I am 41 and for all practical purposes an orphan, all of my immediate family have passed on, including a younger (13 year old) brother. Since the last death (my grandfather) I have been searching, fearing and tearing myself apart about the question of our continued existence beyond death.

I am less concerned if I face non-existence when I die, because if that is the case then I won't be aware of it anyway. But what bothers me, is the thought that all of my loved ones are just -gone- (barring my memories of them). Especially my brother, he got cancer at 10 and it took his life at 13, prior to that we lived in a semi-broken home rife with abuse.

It seems offensive to me that the universe would have him life a life like that then snuff him out of existence at 13. I have asked my friends and they have all had some personal experience (usually involving the passing of one of their loved ones) that provided them with evidence of the continued existence of those who have passed on. (Like sensing the presence of the loved one shortly after their death).

Me, I have soul searched, researched and even prayed for some kind of -experience- to happen to me that would offer me some comfort or closure in knowing he (my brother) is ok, along with the rest of my family. However I seem to be spiritually dead or something as I have had no experiences out of the ordinary, and certainly no messages or indications from my loved ones that they still exist somehow. I am science-minded by nature, but not a closed minded skeptic -- I need evidence, but once presented and able to be verified, I accept it.

So I am left in this state of permanent anxiety over the matter, and have been for some years. Some of the things I read make me think their could be an afterlife, but then there is just as much that leads me to think that such isn't possible. Forgive the rambling, I don't sleep well or a lot and this being typed during one of my bouts of insomnia, but if anyone has any thoughts, help or insights that might get me through this once and for all I would be eternally grateful.

[deepsea]

Come Scibat,join us on the Mediumship forum,you will learn so much on there.
Many experienced members would help you to come to terms with your hurts and loneliness.
Deapsea

[psychoslice]

I'm looking for evidence of life here, Now, all I see is the walking dead lol.:D

[deepsea]

I'm looking for evidence of life here, Now, all I see is the walking dead lol.:D

:D
You speak for yourself, I may be still walking (not on a walking frame yet:icon_eek: ) but still alive,I hope. Looks for signs to see if blood is still flowing.

Deapsea

[John32241]

Hello Scibat,

One of the films that I like a lot is called "Proof". It presents many of the things that you seek in a nice way. In this particular case, the main character was looking for the proof about love. Similar in many respects to what you wish to verify.

The experience you requested, the one to satisfy your logical mind, was ignored by the Intelligent Designer in your life. I myself would not like that particular experience - being ignored. That would make me angry.

I suspect that you need to make a better request. Something you know will not be ignored. Something that a person like yourself can feel.

Best Wishes!!
John

[deepsea]

Hello Scibat,

One of the films that I like a lot is called "Proof". It presents many of the things that you seek in a nice way. In this particular case, the main character was looking for the proof about love. Similar in many respects to what you wish to verify.

The experience you requested, the one to satisfy your logical mind, was ignored by the Intelligent Designer in your life. I myself would not like that particular experience - being ignored. That would make me angry.

I suspect that you need to make a better request. Something you know will not be ignored. Something that a person like yourself can feel.

Best Wishes!!
John

You have a very interesting site,John
Deepsea.

[Greenslade]

Hi Scibat

There will never be any physical proof, reincarnation leaves everything physical behind.

I would go with Deapsea, personally. You are looking for answers in the wrong place. It might be difficult and this won't be easy by any means, but what you have to do is look beyond your sorrow and pain. Use it if you can, to help you climb past the barriers that the human perception can put up and have a look at what's out there. Death is not the end, it's a doorway to so many things and places beyond... The Beyond. Love is the one thing that connects us all, and while Love can turn to sorrow you can turn that sorrow back to Love again. As long as you hold your Loved ones in your Heart they'll never be far away from you, will will always have something of them that will last forever.

Go find out about mediumship. Perhaps it'll be like learning to drive a car so you can go visit them. Perhaps then you will see that they're not so far away after all. The connections are never broken, but our perception can be. Take the time out, set aside a little when it's quiet and you feel ready. Calm your mind, meditate or whatever you do to bring what peace you can. Then sit down and think of them, remember them. Honour their Paths and tell them that one day your footprints will mingle with theirs again. That will be happening until long after the sun has gone dead.

[mac]

...That I can believe in.

Long story short:

I am 41 and for all practical purposes an orphan, all of my immediate family have passed on, including a younger (13 year old) brother. Since the last death (my grandfather) I have been searching, fearing and tearing myself apart about the question of our continued existence beyond death.

I am less concerned if I face non-existence when I die, because if that is the case then I won't be aware of it anyway. But what bothers me, is the thought that all of my loved ones are just -gone- (barring my memories of them). Especially my brother, he got cancer at 10 and it took his life at 13, prior to that we lived in a semi-broken home rife with abuse.

It seems offensive to me that the universe would have him life a life like that then snuff him out of existence at 13. I have asked my friends and they have all had some personal experience (usually involving the passing of one of their loved ones) that provided them with evidence of the continued existence of those who have passed on. (Like sensing the presence of the loved one shortly after their death).

Me, I have soul searched, researched and even prayed for some kind of -experience- to happen to me that would offer me some comfort or closure in knowing he (my brother) is ok, along with the rest of my family. However I seem to be spiritually dead or something as I have had no experiences out of the ordinary, and certainly no messages or indications from my loved ones that they still exist somehow. I am science-minded by nature, but not a closed minded skeptic -- I need evidence, but once presented and able to be verified, I accept it.

So I am left in this state of permanent anxiety over the matter, and have been for some years. Some of the things I read make me think their could be an afterlife, but then there is just as much that leads me to think that such isn't possible. Forgive the rambling, I don't sleep well or a lot and this being typed during one of my bouts of insomnia, but if anyone has any thoughts, help or insights that might get me through this once and for all I would be eternally grateful.
I feel so bad for you. There are many worthy posted suggestions but in the USA it's not easy to point you in a direction which could help.

May I explain by saying that in the UK there are many Spiritualist churches in which you would find an approach to death and life which might bring you some reassurance. It's regrettable that in the US such churches are few and far-between.

If you would be willing to read about what underpins the philosophy and religion (in the UK) of Spiritualism (which has its roots in Hydesville,NY) then I feel sure our members will be able to suggest suitable sources.

These, and other, forum boards may also have information which will help you and I would encourage you to investigate some of the subjects to see what appeals to you. Later you may find yourself drawn to learn more about specific subjects.

As a final, and very personal comment, Spiritualism isn't about 'speaking with the dead' as its detractors often like to accuse.

[eraser]

Scibat, the only "evidence" you're likely to find is anecdotal. Then it usually comes down to what you believe. Some beliefs are grounded in provable fact (I believe I'll fall to the ground if I jump off a roof). Some are built upon a foundation of hope and faith and trust.

I nearly drowned as a youngster. I came away from the experience with a deep-seated sense that all life is connected and all life is eternal. As a consequence, my fear of death disappeared. I can't say for certain exactly what will happen when my body finally stops but I know the essential me will continue on.

Don't be afraid. The journey is one we all make (and one many believe most of us have already made many times).

[John32241]

You have a very interesting site,John
Deepsea.

Thank You, Deepsea!! :smile:

[SandybytheSea]

Hi Scibat :smile:
I know how difficult it must be for a someone with a scientific bent to open up to beliefs that can't be proven in a laboratory, and as eraser said, most of what you hear or read is going to be "anecdotal" - which no true scientist can accept. However, if you can rest your left brain hemisphere and the need for absolute proof, then you'll literally discover a whole other world.

I'm a sceptical believer. That means I refuse to accept anything on face value, but I don't discount anything either. We all have a "line in the sand" that we refuse to step over, but I learnt many years ago that this line keeps moving as we gain more life experience, and things which seemed improbable or impossible once eventually become second nature to us. As you're 41, you'll no doubt have discovered this yourself - impossible that man would ever fly, humans could never reach the moon, Columbus will fall off the edge of the earth, the sun revolves around the earth, etc.

I've personally had many experiences with departed loved ones, but telling you about them is, once again, just anecdotal. And besides, you don't know me, I could be making up stories! (Trust me, I don't!) I'm also a professional past life regression therapist - professional meaning I only accept clients referred by psychologists and psychiatrists - so I've also had many experiences in that regard, too. Any doubts I once had that we survive death have long been put to rest.

But you, my friend, need to know for yourself, not as a result of other people's experiences. And at the moment, it's difficult to open up to the many whispers and nods and winks you're getting from the other side. Oh yes, they're happening, and you know they are, but it's easy to just dismiss them as "coincidences".

I'd highly recommend you read Michael Newton's book, Journey of Souls and also that you visit Leslie Flint's site http://www.leslieflint.com - I won't tell you anything about him, you'll learn all you need to there, but I recommend you listen to some of the tapes available free at that site.

I'd disagree with Greenslade (a VERY rare occurrence) that there can be no physical proof of reincarnation (or even life after death) because there has been, and often. I remember a colleague (regression therapist) taking a client from Australia to the UK to dig up a coin that she'd buried in a chicken coop in her previous lifetime, and finding it! I remember a lady who had a near death experience in hospital in the US and insisted there was a shoe with its lace tucked under the toe sitting on a high window ledge on the other side of the hospital - she had seen it when she left her body. She was so insistant that someone verify this that eventually a social worker went looking for it and eventually found it, having had to almost climb out on a ledge to retrieve it.

Last year, an acquaintance of mine had a near death experience (for 47 minutes!) and her story was shown on our TV news program. You might want to watch the 2 minute news report at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsbOuacQwwc Carmel is a very sensible and down to earth lady and I think you'll find her story fascinating.

Keep searching Scibat, the answers you seek are out there, but sometimes we can't see the forest because there's just too many trees in our way! :hug2:

[mac]

"I'd disagree with Greenslade (a VERY rare occurrence) that there can be no physical proof of reincarnation (or even life after death) because there has been, and often. I remember a colleague (regression therapist) taking a client from Australia to the UK to dig up a coin that she'd buried in a chicken coop in her previous lifetime, and finding it! I remember a lady who had a near death experience in hospital in the US and insisted there was a shoe with its lace tucked under the toe sitting on a high window ledge on the other side of the hospital - she had seen it when she left her body. She was so insistant that someone verify this that eventually a social worker went looking for it and eventually found it, having had to almost climb out on a ledge to retrieve it."

Interesting as these accounts are, they only show that the subject was privy to that information in some way - it's not proof that the individual who was apparently recalling an event actually ever lived through it. I'm not claiming that they didn't live the event, only that it's not proven that they did. There are other ways that such information might be learned - overshadowing is just one example.

As for apparent NDEs, they indicate only that an individual appeared to be dead but they don't have much to do with the afterlife situation anyway. (forum topic)

The questions go on but please don't forget that mac is not a sceptic - as a dyed-in-the-wool Modern Spiritualist, life and the afterlife, along with reincarnation and all the rest are my everyday fare!

[glenos]

Oou, I like that... 'Modern Spiritualist'.

[mac]

Oou, I like that... 'Modern Spiritualist'.

I've adopted that descriptor to distinguish from 'spiritualist' - someone indefinably interested in spirituality....:wink:

Modern only intended to mean 'not ancient'! :D

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi Scibat,
Told you this was a nicer place!!!

What great posts here!

This isn't evidence or anything - just a story from my sister after Dad died.
She was driving too fast in snow on a country road and got herself in a ditch sideways at night...when Dad's voice came to her as clear as a bell - and said,
" Gun it - don't let the tires stop!!" So she did and was able to get out sliding all over the place.

She said, "It was Dad - I don't even talk like that -'Gun it'!"

I have more stories, but I like that one.
There is no reason for me to doubt friends with all their stories - just bec I have not had anything big happen to me.
Plus, I'm an NDE nut - we have a small area here.
Dr. Moody is no one I would ever doubt.

Do you think wanting empirical evidence is a trick of the mind to keep you from
experiencing something more spiritual?
I do, bec my mind tries to trick me so much.

It's hard to put spirit into a bottle or under a microscope - they keep
trying tho with all those cameras and heat sensors !! Ha!
Welcome here.
:smile:

[Scibat]

Thanks everyone for the great replies, insights and helpful advice. Its a lot to digest, so bear with me if I am a little slow in replies while I read, re-read, hit some of these links provided and see where it leads me. And yes Miss H, you were right on the money. Thank you.

[Moon Willow]

Hey Scibat,
Sorry for the late reply but just wanted to send you a great big hug :hug3: and a few thoughts.

Personally I believe in the after-life and have had many beautiful experiences since the passing-over of my daughter. And with all the confirmation I have had that it was her she is always safe and happy and has none of the illness that caused her to pass-over. She's perfect and well looked-after!

I am also just starting to realise I have mediumistic abilities. In the past, I have been able to pass on information to complete strangers about their loved ones with suprising detail so I REALLY do believe (sorry I can't help in your case - I'm just waiting to find a teacher before I take my abilities any further and keep practising). Just know that your brother is safe and happy in spirit, and won't want you to be worrying about him - he will just want you to be happy.

What you do need to realise is that the forcing of wanting something to happen and the anxiety that you are experiencing could be the reason why you haven't had any experiences of your own. A really good thing to do is just set the intention that you want your brother to give you a sign that he is ok, then just leave it at that. Don't try to force anything, just observe. Signs may come in the form of a feather, or a penny, or something that only you and your brother would understand. Keep an open mind to how confirmation will be presented.

Sending you lots of love, light and blessings in your hard time,
Moon Willow :hug:

[Zagacat]

I have no evidence but the readings of Edgar Cayce resonate strongly with me in most areas. I too questioned whether or not there was an afterlife. After reading his works, I can't help but to believe. I wish you much happiness!

[Miss Hepburn]

I have no evidence but the readings of Edgar Cayce resonate strongly with me in most areas. I too questioned
whether or not there was an afterlife. After reading his works, I can't help but to believe. I wish you much happiness!

"I can't help but believe" ---I know me, too.
I feel very glad science doesn't muddle my belief in that which is "unseen".
I know Dr. Raymond Moody didn't believe for years !

Scibat - do you know about the book "Life after Life"?
It is in most used bookstores. It's the pioneer book of afterlife experiences of children with documented "deaths" and revivals in the OR.
:smile:
If you two had children would they be named Scicat or Zagabat?

[mikron]

Hi All those spiritual Light workers on the path to know more about the After Life!

There is definite proof but ..... the creator created this situation not me! I am talking about a very subtle thing, that some people know when they go through cross someone over to the other side . take into consideration who do hospice volunteering and also those whose 3rd eye is activated


5 days before someone passes anyone with the gift of sight can see (etheric and astral energies) what has been described Esoterically going back millions of years


they can see the Antakarana(Rainbow Bridge) come down to ready the person for the astral plane , this is something that is part of the grand design of the creator and also serves as a sign missing from most of spiritual thought some light workers do not even think that all people have a physical emotional and mental aspect

well the Antakarana is proof each person has these levels of being and that is something that proves the Soul

Namaste mikron

ps:for a more detailed information will be posted in my
Sharing Ageless Wisdom post soon

[Scibat]

"I can't help but believe" ---I know me, too.
I feel very glad science doesn't muddle my belief in that which is "unseen".
I know Dr. Raymond Moody didn't believe for years !

Scibat - do you know about the book "Life after Life"?
It is in most used bookstores. It's the pioneer book of afterlife experiences of children with documented "deaths" and revivals in the OR.
:smile:
If you two had children would they be named Scicat or Zagabat?

Read it, I used to go to school where Dr. Moody taught and his book was one of the first ones I grabbed. Unfortunately in later years he's now saying NDEs are not necessarily proof of an afterlife. Which is the kind of mental snag I seem to always hit when researching this stuff :P

[Miss Hepburn]

Read it, I used to go to school where Dr. Moody taught and his book was one of the first ones I grabbed. Unfortunately in later years he's now saying NDEs are not necessarily proof of an afterlife. Which is the kind of mental snag I seem to always hit when researching this stuff :P

Aaaa, what does he know!
:D :D

[mac]

"Read it, I used to go to school where Dr. Moody taught and his book was one of the first ones I grabbed. Unfortunately in later years he's now saying NDEs are not necessarily proof of an afterlife. Which is the kind of mental snag I seem to always hit when researching this stuff"

Huh! I was writing about the situation underlined above only recently in a response somewhere, maybe on anther forum, but had no idea that I wasn't on my own in suggesting this.

I don't doubt that so-called NDEs are real and that things happen which are just about impossible to disprove. Or prove.....

If only some of them reflect only some of what happens just before death they are important BUT what they don't do is provide evidence of the so-called afterlife. Not that I have a scrap of doubt about survival, only that these occurrences can't necessarily provide evidence of it....

Now consider other evidence of survival/the afterlife and treat NDEs as unexplained phenomena and we're good - neither provides the other with proof or disproof. They are independent of one another.

Trouble often is, though, that unrelated facts get linked by minds that don't properly understand 'em.

Then we waste effort debating the apparent relationship (or not) of things that actually aren't related.....:confused3:

[SandybytheSea]

Scibat, mental snags are important. If we didn't work our way through them, we'd be inclined to believe everything and anything. Snake oil salesmen only sell to those who blindly believe and accept everything they're told.

But there's another important factor that many miss when trying to sort the wheat from the chaff - that we have free will, and that also means free will to think, ponder, consider, to believe and accept, or not. If everything was obvious, we'd have no choice but believe - and having no choice is NOT free will. We need to be offered both sides of everything so we have the opportunity to make up our own minds, and the wiser the soul, the more capable it is of doing so.

Consider the died-in-the-wool sceptics who just dismiss anything paranormal or metaphysical with a wave of a hand and a "nonsense!" comment. Do most of them take the time to think about it, or research it? Do any of them have any experience in any area of the paranormal? And even if they did - even if their dearly departed mother stood before them and spoke to them - would they accept it, or would they still just dismiss it as an illusion or a magic trick? I know many people like that, one was a paramedic who rode in the back of an ambulance with many dead or dying patients, only to be told after (if) they'd been revived what had occurred during the trip, but he still refuses to believe it and tells himself that they must not really have been dead, even though they had no heart beat, brain wave or pulse, etc.

Scibat, you're a wise soul who has reached the incarnation where you're ready to search and ponder, question and test, when you need not accept everything you're told, nor dismiss everything arbitrarily. That's an important step - the age of responsible free will. It's called conscious humanity - frightening thought, isn't it, when we grow beyond allowing others to tell us how it is and begin to form our own opinions and beliefs?

Never stop questioning and testing Scibat. Never accept or dismiss anything. As long as you do so, the answers will come, little by little, and when they do they'll be so blindingly obvious that you'll wonder how you missed them initially.

I started asking questions as a sceptical 15 year old when a friend loaned me an Edgar Cayce book called Many Mansions. I'm now 62 and I still have more questions than answers, but what little I've learnt I no longer have any doubts about. The most important thing I discovered in all those years is that anything is possible and everything is probable! Using that as a jumping-off board, the sky's the limit!

[Greenslade]

Read it, I used to go to school where Dr. Moody taught and his book was one of the first ones I grabbed. Unfortunately in later years he's now saying NDEs are not necessarily proof of an afterlife. Which is the kind of mental snag I seem to always hit when researching this stuff :P

It all depends on what you call proof, Scibat. It's like Mac's post that didn't agree with mine saying there wasn't such a thing as proof (grr gnash lol), it depends on what you call proof. For some, their own memories/beliefs are more than ample (for me they are). For others, if you can't stick a meter on the end of it then it isn't going to happen. If a buried coin is proof enough for Mac then so be it, but then it's just as easy to go into the whole does or doesn't that constitute as proof argument.

If it works for you then it's good enough.

[mac]

"If a buried coin is proof enough for Mac then so be it, but then it's just as easy to go into the whole does or doesn't that constitute as proof argument."

I think you've muddled me with someone else on this "buried coin" business above..... And did I disagree with you?

Perhaps we can move on a little, though, with this point of 'proof'?

First may I re-state quite categorically that I have no doubts about the so-called afterlife? I don't believe in it - I feel totally certain and post extensively on many related topics.

I hesitate to return to religion in this general thread but here goes nothing. (Modern) Spiritualism's philosophy offers a reassurance that we all survive physical death, initially finding ourselves living on in a dimension where we also find we haven't changed into new people - we don't become angels dancing around in heaven! :wink:

More than that, however, Spiritualist mediums can sometimes (not on demand!) facilitate communication between those who have passed over and those still living in this world.

Such simple beginnings may lead a seeker to learn more and the abundance of evidence found, along with any personal experience, leads to a conviction about the data. The outcome won't meet scientific or mathematical criteria but on a personal level it's felt as proof !

No amount of debate and argument can change what a seeker experiences and learns and - I've found - no amount of discussion will convince some doubters until they are ready to be persuaded.....:hug3:

[deepsea]

I am in a state of mind,to be honest,where one minute I believe and the next,I don't.
So much evidence that the mind tends to flutter back and forth between decisions like
'Do I accept that there is life after death or not?'

The only proof I will accept is to see my late husband standing before me,looking as solid as you and I.

Deepsea

[glenos]

Great post Mac. Some dont have belief.. some have the knowledge! Proof enough over a period of time. Rock solid proof. I have, I know you have, and many more on SF have. I liken it thus.. imagine a building where everyone is. No windows, doors or anything. Some will believe that it rains outside because they were told by some one. Some will believe because they thought they may have heard it. And some will believe because they read it in a book by some one they trust. Then some person manages to actually get outside and stand in it. "Bluddy hell" they'd say, this stuff is real, I'm standing in it. They get the chance to go out in it more than once, dozens of times infact. They get back into the building and they tell the believers... and nine times out of ten the believers don't, cant, wont, believe that you have stood in the rain.. for real. They have to do it and find out for themselves.
Not a good analagy I know but hey.. it's the truth.. It is raining out there. Heavily.

G.

[deepsea]

Great post Mac. Some dont have belief.. some have the knowledge! Proof enough over a period of time. Rock solid proof. I have, I know you have, and many more on SF have. I liken it thus.. imagine a building where everyone is. No windows, doors or anything. Some will believe that it rains outside because they were told by some one. Some will believe because they thought they may have heard it. And some will believe because they read it in a book by some one they trust. Then some person manages to actually get outside and stand in it. "Bluddy hell" they'd say, this stuff is real, I'm standing in it. They get the chance to go out in it more than once, dozens of times infact. They get back into the building and they tell the believers... and nine times out of ten the believers don't, cant, wont, believe that you have stood in the rain.. for real. They have to do it and find out for themselves.
Not a good analagy I know but hey.. it's the truth.. It is raining out there. Heavily.

G.

Good explanation,Glenos,I like that very much.
Deepsea

[glenos]

Thanks J. And do you know what.., the people who do get outside more often than not pay a price to get there. Whether it's a rotten life, bereavments, or whatever it took to grind you fine enough to be able to get out. Mainly it's not given to you, you earn it one way or another and often it's the hard way. As is said.. "suffer the children to come unto me."

[mac]

"Some dont have belief.. some have the knowledge!" I've made this point myself on many occasions. After a certain point what's learned and understood becomes one's knowledge. Belief no longer. It's a subtle difference in words but a HUGE change when experienced.

I have made that point to LDS missionaries on my doorstep who then tried to steal my words. They had answered that they they had total belief about what they were preaching whereas I countered by saying that I understood, that I knew, what I was telling them! :wink::D

I wouldn't allow them to backtrack on the words they had used, no matter how they wriggled to get off that hook. I don't see any nowadays....:wink:

At one time they'd often come down our street and I would invite new ones in for a cuppa and a biscuit or a cold drink, depending on the weather. Mostly they were nice individuals. As my confidence grew I found I could challenge anything they said but without disclosing anything about me - they rarely asked anyway. But I stubbornly refused to allow them to use their books or quotations. I allowed only their own words, their own explanations - that mostly stopped 'em dead. They couldn't speak without using texts and memorised quotations. Highly revealing I found.

I've digressed....:icon_frown:

[glenos]

I've had JWs come to my door and when I start rabbiting how all life is one, respect for animals, helping each other etc etc. You can see them going "hold on, that's interesting, he's got sommat there." I never tell 'em who/what I am. Quite funny really...
A huge change indeed Mac. As a human you wouldn't think it possible. But it is. Sometimes though I feel like I'd like to ditch it just for a day because with the knowledge comes the responsibility.

[mac]

"Sometimes though I feel like I'd like to ditch it just for a day because with the knowledge comes the responsibility."

Never forget that freewill applies even to this.... Responsibility can only willingly be accepted but it can also be laid down. :smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

Great post Mac. Some dont have belief.. some have the knowledge! Proof enough over a period of time. Rock solid proof. I have, I know you have, and many more on SF have. I liken it thus.. imagine a building where everyone is. No windows, doors or anything. Some will believe that it rains outside because they were told by some one. Some will believe because they thought they may have heard it. And some will believe because they read it in a book by some one they trust. Then some person manages to actually get outside and stand in it. "Bluddy hell" they'd say, this stuff is real, I'm standing in it. They get the chance to go out in it more than once, dozens of times infact. They get back into the building and they tell the believers... and nine times out of ten the believers don't, cant, wont, believe that you have stood in the rain.. for real. They have to do it and find out for themselves.
Not a good analagy I know but hey.. it's the truth.. It is raining out there. Heavily.

G.
Why have I never seen a post of yours ----excellent example.
I'm using it from now on!
:smile:

[Scibat]

I am in a state of mind,to be honest,where one minute I believe and the next,I don't.
So much evidence that the mind tends to flutter back and forth between decisions like
'Do I accept that there is life after death or not?'
That is exactly the state I am in. There is so much information on both sides of the fence, I end up in the middle. I hope there to be life after death, but don't want to let that hope or wishful thinking to let me fool myself.

I have gone to extreme lengths to try and get some evidence that convinces -ME- one way or the other. I've even started attending church again (a UU church granted) in hopes of getting some kind of spiritual 'tap' on the shoulder or revelation/epiphany that will help me resolve this.

As for the rain analogy, here's mine: I live in a building with no windows, so I can't see what's going on outside. Everyone who tells me its raining never comes in wet or with an umbrella :P

That isn't meant to offend, just to illustrate how I feel. I certainly think people who believe or know are being honest, but something gave them that belief or knowledge. It gave it to -them- not -me- and until something comes along to change that, I can only be envious of their belief or knowledge.

[Ciqala]

...That I can believe in.

Long story short:

I am 41 and for all practical purposes an orphan, all of my immediate family have passed on, including a younger (13 year old) brother. Since the last death (my grandfather) I have been searching, fearing and tearing myself apart about the question of our continued existence beyond death.

I am less concerned if I face non-existence when I die, because if that is the case then I won't be aware of it anyway. But what bothers me, is the thought that all of my loved ones are just -gone- (barring my memories of them). Especially my brother, he got cancer at 10 and it took his life at 13, prior to that we lived in a semi-broken home rife with abuse.

It seems offensive to me that the universe would have him life a life like that then snuff him out of existence at 13. I have asked my friends and they have all had some personal experience (usually involving the passing of one of their loved ones) that provided them with evidence of the continued existence of those who have passed on. (Like sensing the presence of the loved one shortly after their death).

Me, I have soul searched, researched and even prayed for some kind of -experience- to happen to me that would offer me some comfort or closure in knowing he (my brother) is ok, along with the rest of my family. However I seem to be spiritually dead or something as I have had no experiences out of the ordinary, and certainly no messages or indications from my loved ones that they still exist somehow. I am science-minded by nature, but not a closed minded skeptic -- I need evidence, but once presented and able to be verified, I accept it.

So I am left in this state of permanent anxiety over the matter, and have been for some years. Some of the things I read make me think their could be an afterlife, but then there is just as much that leads me to think that such isn't possible. Forgive the rambling, I don't sleep well or a lot and this being typed during one of my bouts of insomnia, but if anyone has any thoughts, help or insights that might get me through this once and for all I would be eternally grateful.

the greatest evidence you can ever have, is if you ask your passed loved ones to come to you. You will know once they do. For some people who are less spiritually able, it's good to even just ask them to come visit you in your dreams before you go to sleep!
I am not aware that there is any evidence to these things, but once you experience it yourself, you will know that they are okay.

[Soulsearcher13]

Hi Scibat,

I once was in a similar situation like you. I really wished to get proof of an afterlife but was quite doubtful. It would have seemed to wonderful to believe.
I started to read about different religions and got a little bit more believe. A few years later I had an NDE and got the confirmation of life after death. Then after a while some little doubts came back.
A few years on I met a woman during travelling and we decided to travel together for a week. Inner voices told me again and again that this woman was in great danger and they even told me some details of how she would die. The woman itself was healthy and there was nothing in the outside world that would have shown that there was an danger to her. After a week we split and she continued her travel. Three days later the newspapers reported her death. As details emerged she died under circumstances the inner voices had told me before.
Since then I had numerous experiences with the spiritual world and there is not the slightest doubt left in me anymore of life after death.
The point is that the spiritual world will give you proof but they decide when is the right time for you. For that it is helpful to be openminded and not too rational scientific orientated and to do selfhealing. As more clear we are in our emotional inner Self as more we get in touch with the spiritual world because emotional disturbances create dark layers that disturb the view of the spiritual realms.

[Miss Hepburn]

the greatest evidence you can ever have, is if you ask your passed loved ones to come to you. You will know once they do. For some people who are less spiritually able, it's good to even just ask them to come visit you in your dreams before you go to sleep!
I am not aware that there is any evidence to these things, but once you experience it yourself, you will know that they are okay.
And remember, they can come and there will be a scent.
My Uncle comes around me and I get teary saying hi to him - he'll
make me smell the ocean - our link.
:smile:


Soulsearcher13- "... it is helpful to be openminded and not too rational, scientific oriented and to do selfhealing. As the more clear we are in our emotional inner Self, the more we get in touch with the spiritual world because emotional disturbances create dark layers that disturb the view of the spiritual realms."
YES!




:smile:

[glenos]

To us it seems like ages to get the evidence but please have patience, it will appear, and it'll change everything. Cor what a revelation, lucky you.


G.

[mac]

"As for the rain analogy, here's mine: I live in a building with no windows, so I can't see what's going on outside. Everyone who tells me its raining never comes in wet or with an umbrella" :P Expressed brilliantly well although I wish it were otherwise for you. :icon_frown: A friend from another website is in a similar position. His knowledge is second to few others and yet he has found no personal evidence.

You said "....but something gave them that belief or knowledge." and you are bang on. Often I've made the point that a key for the door is needed. Bereavement is often the key for others' doors and people often forget that's how their enlightenment began.

And I agree so strongly when you said "It gave it to -them- not -me- and until something comes along to change that, I can only be envious of their belief or knowledge."

From the way you've expressed yourself so well, Scibat, I realise that this doesn't help you and I confess I don't know how I could suggest for a direction that you haven't tried. I hope I haven't given you platitudes - I won't tell you how such and such may happen at some particular time. I don't know what will happen and neither do others - they're guessing based on their own experience which may have no relevance for you.

If I were to suggest one thing you might wish to consider, it might be to study the literature that has accumulated over many, many decades to see if anything has any appeal.

If you were to read what spiritually evolved teachers and guides have taught you might find a point of resonance. Maybe you'll be moved in a direction you didn't anticipate.

I can promise one thing - based on my experience, you will need to work at the task and put effort in to fully understand what you are learning. I send you my very best wishes.

[glenos]

I dunno about Scibat K. I know that you are a scholar and a gentleman and people should listen to your reasoning and reason them selves. Top post. Thank you.

G.

[Scibat]

"As for the rain analogy, here's mine: I live in a building with no windows, so I can't see what's going on outside. Everyone who tells me its raining never comes in wet or with an umbrella" :P Expressed brilliantly well although I wish it were otherwise for you. :icon_frown: A friend from another website is in a similar position. His knowledge is second to few others and yet he has found no personal evidence.

You said "....but something gave them that belief or knowledge." and you are bang on. Often I've made the point that a key for the door is needed. Bereavement is often the key for others' doors and people often forget that's how their enlightenment began.

And I agree so strongly when you said "It gave it to -them- not -me- and until something comes along to change that, I can only be envious of their belief or knowledge."

From the way you've expressed yourself so well, Scibat, I realise that this doesn't help you and I confess I don't know how I could suggest for a direction that you haven't tried. I hope I haven't given you platitudes - I won't tell you how such and such may happen at some particular time. I don't know what will happen and neither do others - they're guessing based on their own experience which may have no relevance for you.

If I were to suggest one thing you might wish to consider, it might be to study the literature that has accumulated over many, many decades to see if anything has any appeal.

If you were to read what spiritually evolved teachers and guides have taught you might find a point of resonance. Maybe you'll be moved in a direction you didn't anticipate.

I can promise one thing - based on my experience, you will need to work at the task and put effort in to fully understand what you are learning. I send you my very best wishes.
Sorry for the long delay on the reply, been dealing with lots of other stuff and somehow missed this post.

Honestly anything that gave me reassurance would be welcome, but a few of my fears and concerns seem to constantly resurface and tend to drown out everything else.

Here are a few:


All evidence of an afterlife appears to be anecdotal -- This goes back to the whole thing of having to experience such evidence first hand.
What if belief an afterlife is just a psychological coping mechanism to deal with imminent non-existence?
Am I just deluding myself into thinking anything related to an afterlife is just wishful thinking/willful delusion on my part?
---

I don't entertain the above to deliberately try and be a skeptic. They're just there as a product of the way my mind works, and I can't really dismiss them as they are valid concerns. As I said before, I am less worried about myself but my loved ones who have gone before me.

Its hard to cope with the idea they may just no longer have any continuation after their deaths, at least one of which was childhood (my brother who I mentioned previously).

In fact I have taken up ghost hunting as sort of a way to try and experience something myself. I figure if I actually see/experience a ghost, and its in such a context that it cannot be simply be an imprint of a past even just replaying itself -- Then obviously ghosts are real and represent some sort of continuation of existence beyond death. And if that is so then other forms of existence beyond death are also probable.

So far no luck on the ghost hunting thing, of course my investigation has been limited to a local historic cemetery reputed to be haunted.

Anyway, enough rambling for now. Thanks everyone for the helpful insights and ideas.

[Summerkat]

Sorry for the long delay on the reply, been dealing with lots of other stuff and somehow missed this post.

Honestly anything that gave me reassurance would be welcome, but a few of my fears and concerns seem to constantly resurface and tend to drown out everything else.

Here are a few:


All evidence of an afterlife appears to be anecdotal -- This goes back to the whole thing of having to experience such evidence first hand.
What if belief an afterlife is just a psychological coping mechanism to deal with imminent non-existence?
Am I just deluding myself into thinking anything related to an afterlife is just wishful thinking/willful delusion on my part?
---

I don't entertain the above to deliberately try and be a skeptic. They're just there as a product of the way my mind works, and I can't really dismiss them as they are valid concerns. As I said before, I am less worried about myself but my loved ones who have gone before me.

Its hard to cope with the idea they may just no longer have any continuation after their deaths, at least one of which was childhood (my brother who I mentioned previously).

In fact I have taken up ghost hunting as sort of a way to try and experience something myself. I figure if I actually see/experience a ghost, and its in such a context that it cannot be simply be an imprint of a past even just replaying itself -- Then obviously ghosts are real and represent some sort of continuation of existence beyond death. And if that is so then other forms of existence beyond death are also probable.

So far no luck on the ghost hunting thing, of course my investigation has been limited to a local historic cemetery reputed to be haunted.

Anyway, enough rambling for now. Thanks everyone for the helpful insights and ideas.


Hi Scibat :) I can understand your thoughts and why you feel the way you do. I've been there, felt the same. And you're right all the evidence of life after death is anecdotal. The answer to that problem is that when it is your own anecdote because something happened to you, you will not have a problem with that anymore. So yes, you need to experience this for yourself.

I have also wondered about if the belief is just a psychological prop to help us get through these questions and be able to cope.

But I don't think you're deluding yourself. You are questioning and genuinely desiring to KNOW.

Considering you have a bit of a scientific mind (love that :) hows this? Make yourself an experiment. Go about it in a skeptical fashion, suspend belief for the time being. But ask yourself what sign would you believe? Grab a piece of paper, make a list of who'd you'd welcome contact from and write down next to each name one or more acceptable signs they could give you that you WILL accept.

Say its an Uncle who loved baseball... maybe an acceptable sign to you is something surfaces that reminds you of a special time you shared with that Uncle revolving around baseball... and a week later you find ticket stubs in an old desk drawer from a game you attended together... or someone comes up to you, starts talking about your Uncle and reminds of a glove he bought you to play baseball. Do this with each person on your list..cause the answers of the symbol you will accept will be different for each one of them.

Another example..I hear people talk about finding feathers and that means they've had spirit contact. OK, for me, that wouldn't be a symbol. I raise small birds so feathers are an everyday thing that require vacumning, lol. They are more than common here for me and it just is my birds here, haha. We're unique..what is a symbol to one is not necessarily a symbol to another.

After you make your list...meditate on one of the people and one of the signs. And ask that person to give you a sign and suggest to them what you will accept as a sign. Maybe a song, maybe it is a feather, maybe its a rainbow, maybe its a memento from a special time. And then let it go, continue to be open to *any* sign you receive.

But I think one thing you may find if you do that exercise is that there are a lot of things you won't accept as a sign that others do. You might even find as I did a while ago, that I was on one hand asking for a sign and on the other hand ruling out most of the ones they could give, lol Thats why its important to get clear about that.

I will accept and have received songs ..you might not consider that evidence. So play with it.

Also, make sure you are recording your dreams every morning when you wake up. That is one of the most common ways that the deceased contact us.

If you will look at it more as an experiment and discover what you consider a sign, I think you're gonna be a lot closer to getting one. Be the scientist who just lets the results be the results. Try to ease up on yourself and let what happens happen.

[Celeste]

I think you are trying too hard. Just try and relax (i.e., meditate) and there's a chance you will start to see. I think it is extra hard since they died (I take it) before peace could be made.

[Rumar]

I'm looking for evidence of life here, Now, all I see is the walking dead lol.:D
Brains... *moan*