What is the cause???

[Orion von Koch]

The Spectral Expanse of Human Mindscape

What cause does the mental vista impact upon the underpinnings of Earthly happenstance to existence bring? A mind searching the dreamscape's horizon for order and unity that states positive and negative results to each and every sequential event suggests its own purpose -- truth. Man thinks and something happens in this physical realm of Time/Space with consequence. It has been said, "Not that one is, but that whereby Is, is." Does this mean there is something higher than one's own being? Indeed, so. We are here to become one with the other through unconditional love or coherency found in the pathway of Truth.

Humanity is here for some higher purpose other than that of the animal or the apparent generality of external things. Mankind must become

[Orion von Koch]

I won't put much more up to Test, but I do want to know the level of intellect found here. I am seeking to being a massive amount of information to the realm of thought and so many sites are full of minds that have not paid the price of deep thought. Just checking. Sorry to bother you guys.

[dreamer]

Hey Orion, that's some heavy reading material but I enjoyed it. Keep posting if you feel the desire to, maybe it might not appeal to 85% but there may be bits of interest to the other 15% that might then filter back to the other 85%. I've found all your posts very thought provoking.

[Orion von Koch]

Thank you very much. I am in high hopes that we can all grow together here.

[StephenK]

>>The Spectral Expanse of Human Mindscape


Now that was a mouth full!! :^)

Was that an actual composition on your part, on the fly, or was it a copy from an
essay you've been nursing for some time? I found much there that I can identify with!

Now keep in mind, we are born into animal bodies. We carry forth traits of interactions
that lend to our "species" survival and further propagation. If you ever worked on a farm you'll
note that the way animals interact with each other seem to run on a clock quite independent
of thought and introspection.

As we look to understand our own participation in this physical picture there seems
to be certain default "values" or "tendencies" that we're "naturally" drawn to out of
hardwired evolutionary pressures.

Our history as a civilization seems to be a swinging back and forth between our latent
spiritual awareness/consciousness and that of the animal habits of a corporal species.

This observation I'm simply placing out there as an orienting benchmark. Being
soul-based as we are there must have been a practical reason for us to make the leap into
these bodies knowing what we would deal with ahead of time. Why would we strip away
all the universal access and interaction that we spiritually possess for the sake of
such a mind-trap of limitation and blind attachment?

I'm concluding that our project was to intentionally poke our spiritual eyes out in order
to feel around in the dark for fresh perspective and experience. To re-connect with each
other out of blind desperation and new passion.

Keep in mind that our current condition here is purely temporary. We pass-on back to ourselves
in good time. Forgetting then re-rememberering as both soul-based and spiritual-eternals is quite a
profound and adventurous undertaking when one thinks about it! :^)

[StephenK]

>>I am in high hopes that we can all grow together here.

Amen, right on..... I'm with you on this! :^)

[tiltjlp]

Wars must be fought for ideals held in truth.

Anyone who advocates war is, in my opinion, misguided. The only path to truth is peace.

John

[Orion von Koch]

There are wars and there are wars. You would not defend yourself or others of your family if attacked and destroyed??? Yes and those who advocate "PLAY NICE" were born to not play this game. This game is the biggest game in town. If you do not play the game which includes War, then you are a cow.

That being said, I do agree with you that War is at the top of my dislike list.

The truths that I live by have been hard fought and won by those who are awake.

[tiltjlp]

There are wars and there are wars. You would not defend yourself or others of your family if attacked and destroyed??? Yes and those who advocate "PLAY NICE" were born to not play this game. This game is the biggest game in town. If you do not play the game which includes War, then you are a cow.

That being said, I do agree with you that War is at the top of my dislike list.

The truths that I live by have been hard fought and won by those who are awake.

So you see war as a game to be played. Well, I see peace as a lifestyle to be embraced. And why would you consider me a cow because I'm not gungho about war? And if you meant coward instead of cow, you're even more off base.

John

[Orion von Koch]

Again, you did not answer my question. Would you defend your own. If not why?

[tiltjlp]

My state, city, nor apartment is currently under attack, so I don't see any need to. You seem to be an angy and hostile individual. I'll meditate that you soon find peace.

John

[StephenK]

>>If you do not play the game which includes War, then you are a cow.

Justifying war on a spiritual forum is about as odd as discussing
rape on a maternity ward.

[Orion von Koch]

Indeed it is specific for without War, there is no contrast to Peace. You will not discern Peace if not for War. There is the One and there is the Other. There is the You and there is the Other. You are the Other. Without the Other the one does not know it exists. No feedback looping.

[interpollor]

peace is the gaol. what if someone does not want you to live in peace ?
what is the most spiritual action ?

[StephenK]

>>Indeed it is specific for without War, there is no contrast to Peace.
>>You will not discern Peace if not for War. There is the One and
>>there is the Other.

And if we don't burn down our homes we won't appreciate our ability to live in
them? If we don't teach our children to actively hate others, they will never know
what it is to embrace love?

I understand what you're driving at but it's so short sighted. It's taking
an intellectual stand on an issue and playing it out in spite of the consequences.
In our current government such thinking would be termed "neo conservative".

Weigh what you say against what actually occurs in a war environment. Death
for many, in all manor of angles. From the quick (direct hit) to the slow (wounded
and then death) to the ever so slow (death by starvation or imprisonment). And Who
is it that actually learns from such confrontations? We're watching violent death in fairly
steady numbers in Iraq on a daily basis. Are Americans learning about peace from
their deaths? Not likely. The service men in the middle of the mess are being
twisted into all manor of inner turmoil. They're either growing extremely hardened
by such exposure, or falling apart, do to the contrast of right and wrongs they're
being forced to participate in. The average American, stateside, is hardly
moved at all by the blood shed. They toy in their hearts over some ambiguous
idea of what war is, they struggle with their conscious long enough for the next
beer they ordered to arrive.

The Iraq's are in the middle of leaning hate. They're responding to what you
validated in your previous reply:

"You would not defend yourself or others of your family
if attacked and destroyed?"

The echo of this anger and hate can only grow and spread with each new
wrongful death and the resulting increase in the need for revenge.

War is a rolling process of exhaustive destruction. It's personal, it's
communal, it validates in mass numbers the destruction of others.

If you want to learn about "peace" then get into a big argument with your
wife. As you accuse and blame and escalate that big ball of unwanted tension
you'll decide you can't live without her, then kiss and make up.

There you know peace.... and you didn't have to kill her to get there.....

[Orion von Koch]

You said:

_____________________________________
I understand what you're driving at but it's so short sighted. It's taking
an intellectual stand on an issue and playing it out in spite of the consequences.
In our current government such thinking would be termed "neo conservative".

Weigh what you say against what actually occurs in a war environment. Death
for many, in all manor of angles. From the quick (direct hit) to the slow (wounded
and then death) to the ever so slow (death by starvation or imprisonment). And Who
is it that actually learns from such confrontations? We're watching violent death in fairly
steady numbers in Iraq on a daily basis. Are Americans learning about peace from
their deaths? Not likely. The service men in the middle of the mess are being
twisted into all manor of inner turmoil. They're either growing extremely hardened
by such exposure, or falling apart, do to the contrast of right and wrongs they're
being forced to participate in. The average American, stateside, is hardly
moved at all by the blood shed. They toy in their hearts over some ambiguous
idea of what war is, they struggle with their conscious long enough for the next
beer they ordered to arrive.

The Iraq's are in the middle of leaning hate. They're responding to what you
validated in your previous reply:
________________________________________
You love peace as much as I love peace but tend to jump upon others if they do not embrace such as you. I hope you do not forget war so we will never have war again for you certainly go to war if anyone disputes your position. I merely point out that we must not forget the hell of war but no, you go to war immediately as most women do. You have never fought a war, yet you emotionally go to war with anyone outside of your view of existence.

You miss the point. Do you do that all the time?

The problem with America is that we have too many cosseted ladies who cannot be bothered with war and know only that they cannot be confused with such because it's time to go to the mall.

We will have something worse than 911 because we have forgotten the contrast of war...It is indeed something no one wants especially the conservative who always has to put out the fires of Liberalism's lack of vision. We have to fight your silly wars.

Sorry, I thought you were a woman.

[chadley]

As much as I am weary to present an attitude that resembles Orion, I must offer that war has its purpose in this world. I know this is not a popular thing to say, however, it is true. Remember that there are no victims. War is simply the dance carried out in the physical that exists above. Death is inevitable and a necessary teacher. War is a representation of the mass consciousness. Believe it or not, but it is by the individuals choice as to whether they engage in the repercussions of war.

War exists in planes above the physical as well, just as conflict and personal war, that between your ego and your higher self, in a matter of speaking, aslo exists for the individual. This is the point behind my signature, in that the greatest effect that any individual can have on the world, whether for peace or otherwise, is by raising their own personal consciousness. This is also correctly addressed in many books regarding the law of attraction. Applying attention to war, whether pro or against adds to its attraction, gives it energy and strength.

End the war within self and it will not manifest itself in your environment. But, just as you should respect illness and consequence as great teachers, you can benefit from understanding the role war plays in the universal dance.

With love,

Chadley.

[Orion von Koch]

Thanks for the knowledge and wisdom. You seem to know whereof you speak.

Cheers,

[StephenK]

I must offer that war has its purpose in this world.
Indeed. If Exon Mobile want's to dominate an area for it's resources then a good dose of
PR will convince the convincible that the need is there. Use the well intentions of the individuals
who participate in such violence against the population of another country. Tell them that they're
supporting the march toward freedom, that they're establishing democracy, that they'll kill us if
we don't kill them first.... tell them anything but get the job done.

But then folks will complain.....

Tell those who will follow that they have a "very important job to do".
That they'll have to push back the "dissenters". And here's the terminology
they can embark on:

Call them liberals, call them unpatriotic, call them girly men formed by the feminized educational
system, call them lazy for not grabbing a gun and killing others to learn how necessary it is, call
them unawakened, tell them you love peace as well, (to show how balanced you are) and if worse
comes to worse tell them:

"Remember that there are no victims. War is simply the dance carried out in the physical that exists
above. Death is inevitable and a necessary teacher. War is a representation of the mass consciousness.
Believe it or not, but it is by the individuals choice as to whether they engage in the repercussions of war."

--under the simple formula, that if you can't impress them with facts baffle them with **. As though
those in the paths of the bombs actually have a choice whether to engage or not...!

And then we as Exon Mobile will advertise ourselves warmly on tv and tell all how great we are
in order to keep folks from noticing our finger prints.

Come-on Chadley, what have you been reading? How are we to learn about ourselves and others
while corporally incarnated if a big part of our attention if focused on kill or be killed? Talk about sucking
the subtly right out of the process.....

[StephenK]

You love peace as much as I love peace but tend to jump upon others if they do not embrace such as you.

I suppose I should feel bad for not nicely addressing a person who validates the mass
slaughter of others, who belittles the feminine principal of introspection and empathy, and
who claims I miss the point because I recoil at such nonsense.

I suppose in the end you must be right.... because you said you are... now how could I argue
with that.... :^)

Oh... btw... what you're doing is called passive aggressive.... look into it...

[Moonflower]

Hi Everyone

This is sooo boring :D only my sense of humour guys oops:wink: ..

Made me rather sleepy nite nite.

Moonflower x

[StephenK]

Hi Everyone

This is sooo boring :D only my sense of humour guys oops:wink: ..

Made me rather sleepy nite nite.

Moonflower x Grins...

This must be a guy thing. Thumping our chest and all that. In it's own
perverse way, it's fun. The subject matter is deadly serious, but the thought
that we'd accomplish anything by slugging it out here is clearly funny...

Sleep well.... :^)

[Orion von Koch]

I wrote the books on Human Leveraging. Once again — know thy self. I do not validate slaughter and resent your positioning of me. If you wish to get into something with others, please look past me. I do not need your lies.

my record stands on its own...not your words. I cannot believe one such as you comes here to destroy others via your verbiage and belittle.

If you cannot read, then go to a liberal blog...

[StephenK]

>>I wrote the books on Human Leveraging.
>> Once again know thy self.

But haven't you noticed. The very reason why I may have been
drawn to you is to nudge you into doing just that. "know thyself".
It appears to me there are holes in your "knowing".

>>I do not validate slaughter and resent your positioning of me.

Let's recap on this one basic issue:

You insist war has a purpose. Not my words... yours....
You don't take the time to factor-in what initiated the war, or separate the
offenders from the participants. You take the most ideal approach to the
subject by framing it as "would you protect your own family" and act as if
"that's what war is". And then you try to make others feel small by not agreeing
with you on this narrow example... I believe you call them "cows"

>>I do not need your lies.

Just reflecting what I see....

>>my record stands on its own...not your words.

Your record is mixed. You write about great stuff but you hold thoughts that
clearly come across as unexplored. You appear split between a world of the
preferred and intelligently developed (I actually do admire some of your other posts in
this forum. Your dream work is fun. You're certainly not ignorant ), and a world
of conditioning and long assumed certainties.

>>I cannot believe one such as you comes here to destroy others
>>via your verbiage and belittle.

Now how could I possibly do such a thing?

>>If you cannot read, then go to a liberal blog...

And then you drop the "L" word as though to prove me right once again.
As if to drive home the point that you're missing something really big and unrelenting.

Do you dismiss whole blocks of people with a label? Anyone who dares challenge
you is a bad person, one of the ignorant ones, indeed a most hated "liberal".

This simply doesn't wash with the rest of what you write.

To dismiss someone such as myself as a "liberal" means you categorize in a
dismissive way. Your tendency to do so actually drips from your "opinion" posts.
You're writings are great! But your tendency to categorize means you only
see "big" things at the expense of the small.

And don't be so huffy and hurt. We all have our foibles, and if someone
points them out it bears at least a moment or two of introspection.

My letting you go on this won't mean you're freed of this challenge. It just means
you quieted another voice of dissent through a practiced habit of intimidation.....

I recommend you work on that....

[Orion von Koch]

Indeed, and what dear friend do you call your diatribe...of informal fallacy?

Perhaps you have met your match and it does not see you for the noise.

I know your methodology...

[StephenK]

>>Perhaps you have met your match

Well at least that's a start. You've elevated my place
in our exchange from subservient to that of a subservient "match".

>>I know your methodology...

...only peripherally :^)

[angelica]

Hi there,
My Opinion is that, To Fight for What is Right....War hmmmn....I think that a person is much more stronger not having to be in war...i mean its easy to attack...its harder to withdrawl...so harder is more educational to me....thats my opinion, i didn't play GIJoe when i was younger,and am not a guy, but the reason to fight is within that person......
God Bless
Angelica

[Orion von Koch]

Indeed there are many who match my mentality...You are there.

Anon

[StephenK]

Indeed there are many who match my mentality


>> Indeed there are many who match my mentality...

This will be my last post to you, so fear not, I'm not one for stalking.
This line you just wrote pretty much clenched what I've been trying
to show you. This really is about you isn't it?

Spirituality 101

The more one knows the more one realizes they don't know.
This process is humbling....

Spirituality 101

He who insists he knows, doesn't.

Spirituality 101

The ego is greedy. If threatened it will build a mental castle of colors, giving
the feeling of control, but trapping our sense-of-self firmly inside.

Spirituality 101

When confronting those who stray from this contract, go home and shower.

... and a warm shower sounds rather good to me about now. :^)

[chadley]

Come-on Chadley, what have you been reading? How are we to learn about ourselves and others
while corporally incarnated if a big part of our attention if focused on kill or be killed? Talk about sucking
the subtly right out of the process.....


Hello StephenK, I understand your position, and it is unlikely that we will agree on the issue. However, I will answer your questions.

StephenK, my conclusions are not from reading, they are from direct spiritual experience. You are new here, but if you would like, perhaps it would help you to have a look at some of my past posts. The information I gave on war comes from knowledged gained from understanding how spiritual law works. I have developed this understanding by years of spiritual discipline that is designed to raise my consciousness.

Stephen if you believe that in the physical we are subject to the random happenings of nature and occurrence, such as bombs being blasted at us, then we have nothing to say. Truly, understanding that there are no victims may not be spiritual 101, but it is a necessary prerequisite for engaging in this conversation with me in this subject.

The physical realm or some may call it earth school, is the last and most pronounced effort that the universe employs to teach its lessons, and there is nothing subtle about them. Disease, tragedy, suffering, and hardship are all as the result of personal choice. But, mostly, it is not the choices made by the ego or conscious mind that facilitate consequence. Rather, consequence is the holographic reflection of what lies within the unrealized self, such as in the subconscious and/or the emotional consciousness of your being among other things. Nothing is by chance; it is all directly reflecting who you are. Only, you must find the root of intention and behavior before you can understand why you are experiencing the effects of the environment you are creating. Even an atheist psychologist will tell you that your subconscious dominates your actions.

If you would like to learn more of my position or continue to challenge it, I would invite you to post as many replies as you like and I will answer you.

Blessings,

Chadley.

[StephenK]

StephenK, my conclusions are not from reading, they are from direct spiritual experience. You are new here, but if you would like, perhaps it would help you to have a look at some of my past posts.
Blessings,
Chadley.
Thank you Chadley, I shall do my homework and read your past posts, then
get back with you. I really like how this forum is laid out! A quick click on the
members name and all previous posts are made available. I don't have to hunt
and peck to find your thoughts. :^)

[Orion von Koch]

Stephen, you move too fast and read things not present, but have your own will. I am nothing like what you think I am. Perhaps you should rest a while. I do wish you would realize that we are all in this together...and I am good at what I do. Yet, I do know I know nothing. That is why I am here.

Chadley,

You are a good soul.

[interpollor]

belittles the feminine principal of introspection and empathy
we are male ; principal of introspection and empathy are not in our nature.

in the beginning i was right (not end). (as i am a male).
because i said so. (as i am a male).
you can't argue. (as i am a male).