Jesus' teachings and what he said

[donnnn1]

I know some people of other faiths dont like the Bible but like what Jesus said and teached.

But what about when he said 'Those who live and believe in me will never die' ?

[Shabby]

I know some people of other faiths dont like the Bible but like what Jesus said and teached.

But what about when he said 'Those who live and believe in me will never die' ?

Hi Donnnn1,
It is not so much that people don't believe what Jesus said...it is the interpretation of what it means that he said.

Those who live and believe in me will never die.....

The three words that are up for interpretation are in my opinion the three words I highlighted. What does "Live" mean? How can we live in someone? Who is "me"? Jesus? Live in Jesus? How? Christ...being one with he father? Is it the Son? Who is the Son? Are we son's too? What does die mean? I am not going to have a physical death? Or is there another way to die? Or live?

[Uma]

Hi Donnnn1,
It is not so much that people don't believe what Jesus said...it is the interpretation of what it means that he said.

Those who live and believe in me will never die.....

The three words that are up for interpretation are in my opinion the three words I highlighted. What does "Live" mean? How can we live in someone? Who is "me"? Jesus? Live in Jesus? How? Christ...being one with he father? Is it the Son? Who is the Son? Are we son's too? What does die mean? I am not going to have a physical death? Or is there another way to die? Or live?

You are so right on track with this Shabby!

[Rin]

Hi Donnnn1,
It is not so much that people don't believe what Jesus said...it is the interpretation of what it means that he said.

Those who live and believe in me will never die.....

The three words that are up for interpretation are in my opinion the three words I highlighted. What does "Live" mean? How can we live in someone? Who is "me"? Jesus? Live in Jesus? How? Christ...being one with he father? Is it the Son? Who is the Son? Are we son's too? What does die mean? I am not going to have a physical death? Or is there another way to die? Or live?
I think you are going off-track here.

Those who live, and believe in me, will never die.....

Notice what a difference a simple comma makes. I don't see any problems. Believe in me might be interpreted in different ways but they will all work in some way for the people who chose that interpretation.

[Miss Hepburn]

Those who live and believe in me will never die.....

The three words that are up for interpretation
Yes, they certainly are.
I would say Jesus, the Spirit Man was speaking - not the Jesus that would say, "Pass the salt, please."

So when he said ''me'' - I think he was saying believe in or
be in the experience I am in - this Cosmic Consciousness and
you're a made man*.

* Sorry for the Mafia lingo

[donnnn1]

Yeah I suppose there is many ways to interpret it.

[Shabby]

I think you are going off-track here.

Those who live, and believe in me, will never die.....

Notice what a difference a simple comma makes. I don't see any problems. Believe in me might be interpreted in different ways but they will all work in some way for the people who chose that interpretation.

What track? Actually I was trying to break up anything that could resemble a track. You found another way to interpret it and I bet there are another 100 ways.

[Shabby]

Yes, they certainly are.
I would say Jesus, the Spirit Man was speaking - not the Jesus that would say, "Pass the salt, please."

So when he said ''me'' - I think he was saying believe in or
be in the experience I am in - this Cosmic Consciousness and
you're a made man*.

* Sorry for the Mafia lingo

Yes, that is also a valid interpretation.

[Uma]

Notice what a difference a simple comma makes.

If we're bringing up commas then we need to remember that there are many translations of bibles and many are translations of translations. And besides which nobody wrote anything down when Jesus was alive - so it's all either oral tradition or channeling...

Getting hung up on words is going to produce nothing.

What did Jesus MEAN when he said the things he said, no matter which translation you use, no matter where you put the commas?

We understand meaning when we share his experience because words are simply inadequate to explain spiritual truth-as-lived-experience.

We live in a fractal universe of multiple dimensions. You know when you are hearing the words of a true master when their words resonate on every level, every dimension. Some people will take them literally, some will see a metaphor, others will find in them hints as to mystical experiences and a pathway to follow.

How we understand depends on where we live - spiritually speaking.

[Dilchannan]

Those (human beings who live) who believe in Him (with all their heart soul and spirit) shall not taste death. We (our soul) will not die but have eternal life. Those who do not believe in him shall perish..

Peace

[Shabby]

Those (human beings who live) who believe in Him (with all their heart soul and spirit) shall not taste death. We (our soul) will not die but have eternal life. Those who do not believe in him shall perish..

Peace

Who is "him"? Jesus said love God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul.....He did not say love me with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul. Also, when Jesus referred to the living he did not mean those "human beings who live"...as he said "let the dead bury the dead".

[Maiya]

Imagine yourself healing the sick! Jesus Christ said that you can do these things and more.

Based on what? His unfailing promises. If you can believe, you too can do the mighty works that Jesus did. He Himself has promised you this!

John 14:12, KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do.

[Dilchannan]

Who is "him"? Jesus said love God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul.....He did not say love me with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul. Also, when Jesus referred to the living he did not mean those "human beings who live"...as he said "let the dead bury the dead".

Who is Jesus, Jesus is God in the Flesh. Who or what is the Holy Spirit, Jesus after his resurrection and ascension is still with us today through the Holy Spirit, which is God.

Let the dead bury the dead. Lets put this passage into context. A man ask Jesus what he could do for him. He said to follow Him. The man came up with an excuse as to why he could not follow him, for his father had died. and Jesus said, "let the dead bury the dead, and follow me." We must let go of the Earthly things, and follow Him. One must be truly willing to follow our calling from God, not make excuses, or one risks the chance on never finding the time...

Peace to you all

Peace be within you..

[TeeHee]

Who is Jesus, Jesus is God in the Flesh. Who or what is the Holy Spirit, Jesus after his resurrection and ascension is still with us today through the Holy Spirit, which is God.

Let the dead bury the dead. Lets put this passage into context. A man ask Jesus what he could do for him. He said to follow Him. The man came up with an excuse as to why he could not follow him, for his father had died. and Jesus said, "let the dead bury the dead, and follow me." We must let go of the Earthly things, and follow Him. One must be truly willing to follow our calling from God, not make excuses, or one risks the chance on never finding the time...

Peace to you all

Peace be within you..

Get out of "this" dead society.........

[Shabby]

Who is Jesus, Jesus is God in the Flesh. Who or what is the Holy Spirit, Jesus after his resurrection and ascension is still with us today through the Holy Spirit, which is God.

Let the dead bury the dead. Lets put this passage into context. A man ask Jesus what he could do for him. He said to follow Him. The man came up with an excuse as to why he could not follow him, for his father had died. and Jesus said, "let the dead bury the dead, and follow me." We must let go of the Earthly things, and follow Him. One must be truly willing to follow our calling from God, not make excuses, or one risks the chance on never finding the time...

Peace to you all

Peace be within you..

Dilchannan, your answer is again an interpretation and I doubt it is even truly yours. Only through a true understanding of God will we know and understand Jesus and his teachings.

[Occultist]

I believe he meant a spiritual death. Sheol to be disconnected from God.
To wonder forever with no light to guide you.
That if you believe in him this will not happen. At least thats my take on it.

[TeeHee]

Dilchannan, your answer is again an interpretation and I doubt it is even truly yours. Only through a true understanding of God will we know and understand Jesus and his teachings.

Yes, and Dilchannan's interpretation is more plausible than "Me" when Jesus says to follow Him. He was referring to the unseized moment that always is being put off by excuses as Dilchannan shared. Or in context and alignment with other Scriptures talks about the crucifying of the self, or putting your "me" to the cross. He talked about putting Him above everyone including your dearest relationships. He talked about not being swept away in emotions and before following Him to know the cost. Thanks Dilchannan for sharing your insight, you're really nailing it down.

[Dilchannan]

Dilchannan, your answer is again an interpretation and I doubt it is even truly yours. Only through a true understanding of God will we know and understand Jesus and his teachings.

You are very good at doubting. Only a true understanding of God, is through His teachings. One must study His Word. One must also sit in communion with God, through prayer and meditation. Through the Holy Spirit, one will find understanding and wisdom.

Shabby take a moment and read the scripture that you chose to use. Let the dead bury the dead.
You will see what Jesus was saying to this man. Not something I made up, it is fact. People like to take passages and interpret, without even looking at the whole picture. Jesus spoke in parables many times, but many times he spoke directly. With those with ears to hear, let them hear...

What you belief to be true is up to you. If youbelieve in God, read His Word. For in the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Peace Shabby

[Dilchannan]

Get out of "this" dead society.........

Not sure if I understand, but I think I do. Would you mind clarifying? If you would like you can p.m me...

Peace to you TeeHee

[Shabby]

You are very good at doubting. Only a true understanding of God, is through His teachings. One must study His Word. One must also sit in communion with God, through prayer and meditation. Through the Holy Spirit, one will find understanding and wisdom.

Shabby take a moment and read the scripture that you chose to use. Let the dead bury the dead.
You will see what Jesus was saying to this man. Not something I made up, it is fact. People like to take passages and interpret, without even looking at the whole picture. Jesus spoke in parables many times, but many times he spoke directly. With those with ears to hear, let them hear...

What you belief to be true is up to you. If youbelieve in God, read His Word. For in the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Peace Shabby

I read Jesus teachings without the interpretation of a church. I have asked God to reveal the Truth to me and he would do the same for you if you only ask and believe.

[TeeHee]

I read Jesus teachings without the interpretation of a church. I have asked God to reveal the Truth to me and he would do the same for you if you only ask and believe.

Maybe Dilchannan asks this very same thing in prayer with many others in opening their eyes and hearts to Scripture at church. Y'know that place don't you, where many come together in communion and to do the will of God.....

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth concerning anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.

[Shabby]

Maybe Dilchannan asks this very same thing in prayer with many others in opening their eyes and hearts to Scripture at church. Y'know that place don't you, where many come together in communion and to do the will of God.....

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth concerning anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.

Amen to that : )

[Dilchannan]

I read Jesus teachings without the interpretation of a church. I have asked God to reveal the Truth to me and he would do the same for you if you only ask and believe.

Not only do you doubt much, you assume much as well.

One must read the Bible, God's Word is all. God's word is Truth. When one picks and chooses what to believe in the Bible, then one does not believe in the Word of God. If you believe only some, than you have not heard the Truth.

Do you know what the true church is? We are....

Now gathering together with fellow Christians in a building, to gather with others who too would like to honor and glory in the Lord. To sing songs of praise and worship to Him, to lift up our voices together. To lift one another up. To hear the Word of God together in fellowship and unity. It is an expression of our Love of God. To have the Holy Spirit lift us up and fill our cups. To combine our strength in prayer. When you find the right place of worship, it is awesome.

Peace be with you.

[Uma]

Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth concerning anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.

Which goes with...

Where two or more of you are gathered in my name, there I AM in your midst.

...a profound teaching. Let us inspire one another and together break all bonds.

[Shabby]

Not only do you doubt much, you assume much as well.

One must read the Bible, God's Word is all. God's word is Truth. When one picks and chooses what to believe in the Bible, then one does not believe in the Word of God. If you believe only some, than you have not heard the Truth.

Do you know what the true church is? We are....

Now gathering together with fellow Christians in a building, to gather with others who too would like to honor and glory in the Lord. To sing songs of praise and worship to Him, to lift up our voices together. To lift one another up. To hear the Word of God together in fellowship and unity. It is an expression of our Love of God. To have the Holy Spirit lift us up and fill our cups. To combine our strength in prayer. When you find the right place of worship, it is awesome.

Peace be with you.

If going to church makes you feel good....you have your reward. I choose to follow Jesus's teachings instead:

"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you".

[Shabby]

Dilchannan, you are the one that is picking and choosing from the bible what you want to believe and act upon.

I follow Jesus's teachings.

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Not:

"He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)

Which one do you follow or do you follow both?

Or:

Leviticus 20:13

13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Yet Jesus said nothing about Homosexuals other than love you neighbor and do not to Judge anyone. Do you kill homosexuals as the O.T. tells you too? I assume you don't.

[Dilchannan]

Dilchannan, you are the one that is picking and choosing from the bible what you want to believe and act upon.

I follow Jesus's teachings.

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Not:

"He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14)

Which one do you follow or do you follow both?

Or:

Leviticus 20:13

13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Yet Jesus said nothing about Homosexuals other than love you neighbor and do not to Judge anyone. Do you kill homosexuals as the O.T. tells you too? I assume you don't.


Shabby you are only taking certain scriptures to make you feel better. Read the whole Bible. Seriously read it, and study it. You like to quote from it, but you have know idea what you are quoting...

Yes some things we do in private, not tell all in a forum. That is between you and God. There are also times to come together with fellow Christians and Honor, Praise and Glorify God. To testify. To build one another up.

Your quoting back and forth from the Old and the New (trying to show contradiction) tells me you have yet to understand, but keep going! Your heading in the right direction.

Hate the sin, not the sinner...

Peace be with you.

[Shabby]

Shabby you are only taking certain scriptures to make you feel better. Read the whole Bible. Seriously read it, and study it. You like to quote from it, but you have know idea what you are quoting...

Yes some things we do in private, not tell all in a forum. That is between you and God. There are also times to come together with fellow Christians and Honor, Praise and Glorify God. To testify. To build one another up.

Your quoting back and forth from the Old and the New (trying to show contradiction) tells me you have yet to understand, but keep going! Your heading in the right direction.

Hate the sin, not the sinner...

Peace be with you.

If you knew the Truth that Jesus was talking about you would not hang onto the bible the way you do nor go to church....but these things are still serving you as a crutch...therefore I know that you are not free...remove the crutch and you would fall.

[Miss Hepburn]

If you knew the Truth that Jesus was talking about you would not hang onto the bible the way you do nor go to church....but these things are still serving you as a crutch...therefore I know that you are not free...remove the crutch and you would fall.
Hey, wait a minute, you 2, let me buy you both a drink.

Dilchy is just fine and Shabby you are just fine.
Bible, no Bible - church or no going to church, picking some scripture - picking all scripture --you
both know it's about love, abundance (John 10:10, afterall), loving God with all your heart, and our neighbors - let's not get too too into knit-picking - The letter of the law killeth - isn't that how it goes?

You 2 are both great just how you are at whatever place you're at.
:hug3:

[Dilchannan]

If you knew the Truth that Jesus was talking about you would not hang onto the bible the way you do nor go to church....but these things are still serving you as a crutch...therefore I know that you are not free...remove the crutch and you would fall.

Shall I quote to you what Jesus Christ our Savior taught in regards to God's Word and Church. Surely you have not past over certain things Jesus taught that did not make your ears tickle did you? For He talked about that also...

Hebrews 10:25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.
He wants us to gather together, and so much more.

Luke 24:44
44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus knew the Old Testament was Truth, and He was the "someone" the Old Testament talked about so much..

If Jesus did not want you to believe in the Bible, he would not have quoted 24 books of the Old Testament. He knew that the Word of God was everlasting to everlasting. God does not change. Jesus Christ came to save the world, not condemn it. He wants you to Love the Father.

Are you saying Jesus does not want his followers to gather together? Or that he does not want you to believe the Word of God?

There is someone who does want you to believe in the worldly views. To accept the world into your heart. To live a fleshly life. It is Not God, Our Lord and Savior.

[Dilchannan]

Hey, wait a minute, you 2, let me buy you both a drink.

Dilchy is just fine and Shabby you are just fine.
Bible, no Bible - church or no going to church, picking some scripture - picking all scripture --you
both know it's about love, abundance (John 10:10, afterall), loving God with all your heart, and our neighbors - let's not get too too into knit-picking - The letter of the law killeth - isn't that how it goes?

You 2 are both great just how you are at whatever place you're at.
:hug3:

You are so kind Miss H. Your love shines forth like the brightest of all stars.

I have no animosity towards Shabby, nor do her words harm, as I hope mine do not hurt her. We just see things a bit differently. Maybe my words are not for her, who knows who those words are for, someone, somewhere at sometime maybe...

Peace be with you...:smile:

[Miss Hepburn]

You are so kind Miss H. Your love shines forth like the brightest of all stars.


Now, look who's kind. :tongue:

I'm going to print that out a foot long and tack it above my mirror.
Thanks Dilchy.

[Amilius777]

Miss Hepburn, that was perfect what you said trying to show the distinctions between Jesus the man, and the Christ Spirit.

I know a lot of people hate to hear this but the Christ Spirit is the "spiritual self" in us all. The Christ Spirit is our angel-self, or godling within. It is through the Christ Consciousness, the Holy Spirit- this spirit in action that helps us awaken our true potential.

Of course, Jesus was preordained from the foundations of the world according to the Apostles to be the one to manifest the Christ-Spirit or the "Son" in the flesh and had to live the model and example in accepting his cross so others can accept their cross. He opened the doors for us. He showed us the possibilities. He elevated the human awareness of God to its rightful place. He is saying if we live in his Christened "consciousness" we will never die. Meaning we will never fall away from God, never die spiritually again. The life he says is "spiritual life"- all life forever either in flesh or spirit. When he says "Me", he means the Spiritual I, his Christ-self. When he says "die" he means separation from God

[Miss Hepburn]

Miss Hepburn, that was perfect what you said trying to show the distinctions between Jesus the man, and the Christ Spirit.


I know, that is because you are my twin brother.

[Uma]

Jesus was also a man. He choose to incarnate as a divine teacher out of his love for humanity. He didn't have to do it. He could have chosen nirvana instead. I love the Christ Spirit but I also love and appreciate the man, for doing this, and lighting the way for the rest of us.

[Miss Hepburn]

He choose to incarnate...
He didn't have to...
I KNOW, right?
What a being, soul, advanced spirit...

:love9:

[psychoslice]

Believing in Jesus the man will never help anyone, but believing in your true inner being will, when Jesus said to believe in him, he was making the inner Christ personalized, but so many have been lead to believe that he was talking about himself, the man Jesus, those who believe this have missed on so much, they have missed out realizing their true inner SELF, the Christ.

[Uma]

Believing in Jesus the man will never help anyone, but believing in your true inner being will, when Jesus said to believe in him, he was making the inner Christ personalized, but so many have been lead to believe that he was talking about himself, the man Jesus, those who believe this have missed on so much, they have missed out realizing their true inner SELF, the Christ.

Yes he identified with his inner being.
Yes we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
But even Jesus needed the touch of another spiritual being in a human body, the baptism by John.
What is supposed to happen during sacral rites such as baptism and holy communion is the passage of the energy from the master to the student and since we are in bodies, we require that human-to-human experience.
At some stage, that IS required.

[7luminaries]

Yes he identified with his inner being.
Yes we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
But even Jesus needed the touch of another spiritual being in a human body, the baptism by John.
What is supposed to happen during sacral rites such as baptism and holy communion is the passage of the energy from the master to the student and since we are in bodies, we require that human-to-human experience.
At some stage, that IS required.

Uma, you are a wise woman.
Agreed...completely.
:hug3:
7L

[7luminaries]

Jesus was also a man. He choose to incarnate as a divine teacher out of his love for humanity. He didn't have to do it. He could have chosen nirvana instead. I love the Christ Spirit but I also love and appreciate the man, for doing this, and lighting the way for the rest of us.

Agreed. Completely :)
I respect the beliefs of others and I feel that whatever speaks to our heart is right and good.
But for me, Jesus is only a man, and a master.
Never a God...
And that's the beauty of his life and his presence and his message.
Jesus just reflected the Divine more clearly and shone light on a different path for us...the path of incarnated enlightenment.

Throwing any mention of him as God in there, unless it is reference to the same divine spark in all of us, just points us away from his message.
But then again it doesn't bother in the least if others see that aspect of him, as there are many paths to Spirit.

BTW...there is a lot of love on this thread :hug3:

Peace & blessings,
7L

[Miss Hepburn]

But for me, Jesus is only a man, and a master.
Never a God...


Jesus is my very, very, advanced, wise, older brother, teacher and guide and helper...And thank you, thank you, thank you...
that always pointed to the Father.

[Uma]

Jesus showed us a way to become like him. Being a Christ is not only for avataurs, it is everyone's possibility...takes a lot of work, lifetimes of work...yes...but it's everyone's possibility and potential. In a human body Jesus role modelled for us Super-man. When his disciples asked him how they could also perform miracles as he did, he said, "If you had as little faith as a mustard seed, you could tell the mountain to move and it would move." That potential is within all of us.

People are so quick to ascribe "God" to some big guy out there. And some say "God is inside me" - but we are so reluctant to see that same "God" in other people. Yet this was one of Jesus's fundamental teachings, "Love your neighbour" (love one another) "as you love yourself" (as you love your true self - that "God", that Spirit within you that is eternal light).

Eternal light - Pure Conscious - Heaven - that from which Mind sprang and all of creation - the Father...Spirit, Source, God - the Power and the Glory...the om/amen vibration of all things in harmony.

And that's why I don't believe in any "end of the world" stories. The human experience is the perfect experience to help an incarnating soul become a Christ being. It tests us to the maximum and when, broken and bleeding, we can still say, "Forgive them they know not what they do," and call out to "God" - grace frees us from the pull of this low vibration world and lifts us into higher consciousness. And we discover, we do this ourselves...like Buddha and Krishna said "Lift yourself by yourself,"...it's like we need to give ourselves permission to become free.

[Dilchannan]

Interesting ideas...Man sure can come up with some doozies, Lord you were right. Proving it to me more and more each day..Thank You Jesus

Peace

[Morpheus]

Jesus is my very, very, advanced, wise, older brother, teacher and guide and helper...And thank you, thank you, thank you...
that always pointed to the Father.

We understand that God is much more than what is normally concieved by many who find themselves in this construct and , "Matrix", of time and space.

"God is Light". Jesus, the "Light of the World".

Light is equated with energy involving what Physicists call, "Strings" or, "Loops" in, "String Theory".
Which we are to understand resonates, producing all things apparent to us.

Everything, concerning the ,"material", is fundamentally about, "Frequency, Vibration, and Resonance".

It has been percieved that Adam and Eve glowed with a heavenly light, before the fall.
Evidence shows that Humanity's true origins, apart from ,"space/time", is of the, "angelic", and, apart from time and space.

Recently, scientists found that, apart from the heat spectrum of just the infrared, the human body emits true visible light, only at a scale presently, that is normally imperceptible to human vision.
http://www.livescience.com/7799-strange-humans-glow-visible-light.html (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livescience.com%2F 7799-strange-humans-glow-visible-light.html)

Nevertheless...
All life is biology, all biology is physiology, all physiology is chemistry, all chemistry is physics, all physics is maths, all maths is energy, all energy is Light, all Light is Conciousness.

[Morpheus]

From a Hymn:

"When we've been there ten thousand years, bright shining as the Sun, we'll 've no less days to sing God's praise, than when we've first begun."


"God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."


From Webster's:
"Saved", means rescued, as by another. And, "Grace" means unmerited favor.

[Amilius777]

I think one of the issues here is the person of Jesus Christ.

Many people forget the distinctions between Jesus the man, and Jesus the Christ.

Jesus the man was an elder brother as Miss Hepburn states above. He was a soul like all of us. He was just pure of heart. That is the only difference.

Jesus the Christ is a whole other story. The Christ is the mental substance of God in the cosmos. It is part of the Godhead and it is the Mind or Higher Self in us all. Jesus was so pure and a clear channel that at 30 years old he allowed this Universal Consciousness to take up his Incarnation completely.

That is why after 30 yrs old he has a lot of absolute sayings- "I am this" "I am that". This was the Universal Christ speaking through his lips.

What I get from my intuition is that Jesus was a master like many before him like Buddha, Zoroaster, Melchizedek, Moses and such but because his selflessness and love for mankind was so pure, it allowed the Christ-Spirit to take up his life completely allowing a unique divine incarnation 2,000 years ago. The acts and patterns of his life have been imprinted forever on the ether of the planet for future generations.

[WonderGarth]

I know some people of other faiths dont like the Bible but like what Jesus said and teached.

But what about when he said 'Those who live and believe in me will never die' ?


I beleive Jesus to be The Imagination of "Man". Speaking of myself ... IAMagination.

This quote to me means ..... Those who beleive and live from the Imagination as the creator of the their life ..... will come to re-member who they truly are. Immortal ... time-less ... Creation(Jesus, God, Energy, etc) itself :)

This "body" is but a passing fancy of eternal Imagination .... rising and falling like the sun I imagine shine upons.... water that cleanses .... and air that breathes .


Scriptue as I understand it ... is akin to a beautiful diary . Written by the Imagination , for the Imagination. To awaken itself from it's own self indiced sleep of Imagination :) . . Called "my life" .

I can say thus say .. it is written by my Imagination for my Imagintion ! Just as it is written for yours. And each understands it of their own Imaginings . Infinite Imaginings ... of the One Imagination :)

"With god all things are possible"
This is the calling to use your Imagination ! Practice it .. live from it ! Celebrate in the fields of your harvest, Today ! No need to wait for seeds to raise .... the time to reap the harvest is now .

[Arcturus]

'Those who live and believe in me will never die'

this sounds more like something some priest thought up so as to get folks to follow the controlling stuff in the bible that they put in. why would a master imply that through him only can you find salvation? buddha always insisted that folk question what he said not blindly believe.

[WonderGarth]

'Those who live and believe in me will never die'

this sounds more like something some priest thought up so as to get folks to follow the controlling stuff in the bible that they put in. why would a master imply that through him only can you find salvation? buddha always insisted that folk question what he said not blindly believe.


It all depends on the perspective of that statement !

Those who Believe in ME .. wil never die

Me being Jesus. Who is Jesus ? I AM . Who is I AM ? I and YOU are ! Everyone IS .. I AM. What is I AM ? My/Your Imagination ... every thought I/you could imagine... that's I AM. I AM ALL Imagination ...eternal, boundless, forrmless .... thus .. there is no-thing and no-one TO "Die". It's Awareness-Of-Being. Hmmmmm ... Does this Sound familiar ? lol lol

Sounds just like Buddha speak ! Because there is NO difference bewteen "them" . All are One ... One I AM . One Awareness of BEing. .... appearing as every-one and every-thing .


That's the symbolism of Jesus from this perspective.

[Arcturus]

It all depends on the perspective of that statement !

Those who Believe in ME .. wil never die



hi, and that means, in order to live forever, that i should believe he is the christ or jesus or both and what does it mean to think either of those any way, or does it mean something else? either he speaks truth or not, the man himself is secondary i think,,to me to "believe" implies to accept without question and that feels dodgy

[WonderGarth]

hi, and that means, in order to live forever, that i should believe he is the christ or jesus or both and what does it mean to think either of those any way, or does it mean something else? either he speaks truth or not, the man himself is secondary i think,,to me to "believe" implies to accept without question and that feels dodgy


No wonder it feels dodgy Vecta !!! I never bought into the "Jesus" that's promoted by religion. It makes no sense to me either.


What scriptute speaks to me is : "You" are "Jesus Christ" ! The whole "teachings" of Jesus are about not worshipping anyone from the "outside" ... they mean to trust Yourself ! You are your own "savior" ... which means within You is the witnessing of "saving" yourself . What "saving" means" is simply .. relief ! Release ! Any Relief .. is "christ".... from the simplist to most complex. When one is hungry and releives it with food... that's Christ. You see ... scripture is actually profoundly simple .... but interpreted in infinite complex ways !

"You" "I" are Jesus ... Christ .. God. is what scripture is all about. Self Real-I-zation. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I realize this appears quite diiferent from what is promoted by "religion". That's why "scipture" and "religion" are not the same at all. Religion uses scripture for it's social construct only, that's all. Religion is all about itself ! lol

[Amilius777]

I Agree with you.

I believe Jesus was the Guide to your own self-realization. I don't believe the traditional views of Self-Realization. Majority of people's realization is that they need to become a divine being or attain some Omnipresent-consciousness. This has no proof in any human experience- not even Jesus.

I believe self-realization is the full development of your individuality. I don't believe it is about you becoming a universal consciousness or some abstract Light. I have strong conviction that Jesus wanted people to be themselves!

Peter says to Jesus- "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God!" Jesus says- "Amen, Amen I say to you! The Father revealed this to you! You Peter will be the Rock of my Church!".

Ironically Jesus doesn't say- "You shall be the Christ!" Even though Peter realizes that divinity in Jesus and thus in all human beings, Jesus acknowledges Peter as the Rock, the head of a movement.

Jesus didn't want us running around being these abstract being of "Christ-consciousness". He wanted us to be ourselves. Some are meant to to be doctors, some lawyers, actors, artists, workers, priests, prophets, etc. But the Christ-consciousness is a universal body, a single ideal and state of mind.

People have this idea in Christianity that they have to saved from hell and become saints. New Agers think it is about becoming Psychic. Self-Realizationists think it is about becoming a Guru. It is about being your SELF, reaching the greatest heights of your self. For Jesus, it was being the Son of God, the promised Hebrew-later universal Savior. For Simon it was being Peter, the head of a spiritual movement. For Sidhartha it was being the awakened Buddha to help others awake from suffering. For Moses it was being the Deliverer for his people. For Ghandi it was the liberator of India. For Dahli it was being one of the greatest eccentric painters. For Mozart it was achieving the heights of musical genius.- ALbert Einstein is Einstein. Mozart is Mozart. Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ.

See what I mean? Don't change who you are. To repent in the Bible means to turn your mind away from selfishness and lower-mind thinking. Expand yourself and delve deep into the heights of Self. Only then can you truly love yourself, others, and God.

[psychoslice]

Jesus was just a man who had some good pointers, most were borrowed from others belief systems. We should not get stuck on Jesus, yes use the pointers if they help, if they don't then maybe use other pointers from others who have Awakened to their true Being.

The whole point is, find your own true Being or Self, use the pointers of others as you would use a thorn to dig out a thorn in your foot, after the thorn is out, you then throw away both thorns.



Just don't get too relaxed in the story of the one who has Awakened, that is second hand to you, the truth is never found in the dead past, it is ever flowing right within you, here, Now.

[Tobi]

I really agree with what Psycho says about finding your own path, your own way, your own truth -first hand.
But in my experience I've found Jesus to be a living Spirit. A Being from whom I can sense unconditional Love if I tune in, and don't tune Him out. I sense "Jesus" is a living energy. Not a historical thing at all. But here and now.
I have prayed for His assistance and help, (concerning other people who were in great need, and also for myself to listen only to true guidance and follow my own true Path) and seen the fruits of those prayers too.
Sometimes those things have been really "in your face" and sometimes quite subtle, but definite.
I didn't really used to be a "Jesus Person"! I respected those things but had no experience of them. But some things the last year have opened my eyes and my heart.
But nowhere does Jesus say you shouldn't listen to your own Soul, be alert to lessons all around, every day, and be observant of your own "lights" and conscience, and use your own common sense.

[Morpheus]

I really agree with what Psycho says about finding your own path, your own way, your own truth -first hand.
But in my experience I've found Jesus to be a living Spirit. A Being from whom I can sense unconditional Love if I tune in, and don't tune Him out. I sense "Jesus" is a living energy. Not a historical thing at all. But here and now.


Well, now you've gotten into what time and space are, we are told ever since Einstein, Tobi.

"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday today, and forever!" (Apart from time.)

An Article on time and space and the material world.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=223236 (http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=223236)

[Amilius777]

How could there be any other way than Jesus?

Jesus enacted social justice and spiritual equality- brotherhood of human beings, fatherhood of God- the "Reign of God".

How the hell can there be anything higher?

The man died because of social injustice he bore on the cross. That which we sadly contribute to everyday as we ignore it all around us.

There is no pueso-Christ Being inside of you. There is no Gnostic "secret" knowledge junk. There is no- "I am God- We are all God!". There is NO Cosmic Christ. There is none of that!

The Christ-consciousness is so general it is like saying- 'The good-consciousness' or the 'saintly consciousness'.

You don't have to learn to become "one with god". I am convinced that this esoteric, Gnostic, new age spirituality etc is for the dogs.

Not one person on this planet has proven to me any of this stuff except that there is a higher consciousness than self-consciousness. That is it.

I don't have a "Universal Self". I am not a walking abstraction. I don't have to do yogi to become some sort of avatar.

I have my own path to this ideal that Christ taught. For me I am a Judaic-Wiccan Eschatologist. I believe we need to tend to our own self-love, the love of others, love of Nature, love of God, and help bringing social justice to the world.

[psychoslice]

What is higher than the man Jesus, is your own inner Being, Jesus only realized his own higher Consciousness, he then tried the best he could to point others to what he himself discovered. Don't believe in what Jesus said until you prove to yourself, that what he said was right or wrong. Never believe in a Christ, a Buddha or anything until it becomes your own experience, anything else will always be second-hand. When you yourself have experience what IS, you will then have no need to believe in what IS, you just simply live it.

[Amilius777]

Sorry Psycholice. I had to edit my post.

Maybe I have been a bit stubborn or unnerving but I think you and I are saying the same thing in different words.

I don't know if you have read the Jesus history by John Dominic Crossan and Bart Ehrman. It is fantastic reads.

I think the one thing you are missing is the puesdo-political/spiritual belief in Jesus. I think we tend to color the Gospels according the Four Evangelists as another way at looking to higher consciousness. Don't get me wrong they are! The Kingdom of God as this living reality within us is definitely the "Christ-consciousness" or whatever you call it. It is a collective humanity working towards divinity, or awareness of divinity which includes "Social Justice for the World". I don't think you can just color the story Jesus as a spiritual story about spiritualizing a small hamlet of Jews who later grew into Christianity.

I think you and many people miss the other side of Jesus' purpose. It has nothing to do with "finding your own inner Being". We already know that Jesus was trying to say that he was Our Soul communicating to our everyday human self. We can see that. Buddha did the same thing. But I think Jesus' examples of the Soul in harmony with the human self is what will save the world from injustice. Once the soul and body- the divine and human are united I think we are then technically "liberated" which means we can finally be at peace within ourselves which then makes peace for us all. No violence, no castes, no hate, etc.

But I think the story of Jesus needs to also be remembered as a pseudo-political supernatural drama where this Man was claiming to be a reformer in Israelite covenant (spirituality), and claiming to be Son of God or "Son of David" meant that he came with a social purpose as well. The only person like him in history was Ghandi (exclude the sexual stories about him). As the Messiah he is claiming to be a supernatural political figure who initiated a new age of thinking. We see the fruits of his labor in people who THINK FOR THEMSELVES today. It has taken centuries but at last his teachings are coming to fulfillment. And that is of course the second coming.

See I know you believe Jesus realized his own divinity and such. But I believe that Jesus was God or Divinity which became Man so that Men who have lost their way (the entire world) can become God (Divinity) again. I think he knew who he was from the time he was 12. Its like we are all stuck and attached to the Matrix and our own individual matrix. But jesus was cast into the Matrix and assumed one for himself to undo it all for us to follow.

[psychoslice]

Hi Amilius, yes that may be so, but I only see the deep spiritual side of what this man Jesus supposedly taught. Yes he did declare his divinity, but we also can declare our divinity. We must not shove men like Jesus up on a pedastal, we must meet them right where they are, that is in our level. Jeus never really did anything, he himself said, "I can do nothing, but the Father does all from within me". There are many beautiful stories here today, that point to our true inner Being, we only need to open our eyes, we need not keep going back to the old stories from the past, yes they have beauty within them, but they also have been tamped with and a lot of beauty has been lost.

I myself have learnt from the old sriptures, but now I make my own, I live my own scripture, I live my own prayer, I have given up secondhand knowledge, and have now discovered my own inner knowledge, this is where I live and this is all I can share, just like Jesus, the Buddha and the rest of them, they found their way and shared their way, now you must find your way, and just like them, share your way, after all you are the way.

[Search]

Hi Amilius, yes that may be so, but I only see the deep spiritual side of what this man Jesus supposedly taught. Yes he did declare his divinity, but we also can declare our divinity. We must not shove men like Jesus up on a pedastal, we must meet them right where they are, that is in our level. Jeus never really did anything, he himself said, "I can do nothing, but the Father does all from within me". There are many beautiful stories here today, that point to our true inner Being, we only need to open our eyes, we need not keep going back to the old stories from the past, yes they have beauty within them, but they also have been tamped with and a lot of beauty has been lost.

I myself have learnt from the old sriptures, but now I make my own, I live my own scripture, I live my own prayer, I have given up secondhand knowledge, and have now discovered my own inner knowledge, this is where I live and this is all I can share, just like Jesus, the Buddha and the rest of them, they found their way and shared their way, now you must find your way, and just like them, share your way, after all you are the way.

Right On ... I am learning to take what make sense for me from each one and leave the dogma alone. As soon as I come across others bantering on what it wrong or right ... I'm turned off immediately and go elsewhere only to come back to those whom are accepting of me ... no matter what or who I am.

I will query only to try and make sense, but will never say it is this way because it was said or written here or there. That's for the academics, the theologians or intellect egos floating about the place. Right and wrong ... you must in order to understand ... criticism of the individual without questioning the order of things ... But rather Criticize the Order in which claims this or that as I will never be bound by the words of another ... other than what rings right in my own heart. Tune with the words of others I might ... but a far cry from the need to worship or follow some one.

I too now subscribe to my own rulings ... and not that of another. I do remain open ... but only receptive up to a point ... if ever anyone makes claims to this of that word of something other with regard to being right or wrong ... justify, prophecy or anything of that nature ... I leave the dogma where it belongs ...

With the barking intellects blowing their horns.

Such and such said ... good luck with that. :wink:

[psychoslice]

Hi Search, its good to hear such beautiful words from a free thinking individual, as your self.:hug3:

[Miss Hepburn]

Has everyone taken the time to rate this thread?


I believe Jesus was the Guide to your own self-realization

I believe self-realization is the full development of your individuality.

Jesus didn't want us running around being these abstract beings of "Christ-consciousness"

People have this idea in Christianity that they have to saved from hell and become saints. New Agers think it is about becoming Psychic. Self-Realizationists think it is about becoming a Guru. It is about being your SELF...

Don't change who you are.
Shortehed your post here only to fit...the whole thing was brilliant, thank you.

[Amilius777]

Thank you Miss Hepburn!

It has taken me a long journey of realizing these things. I can not find answers in books anymore like: Edgar Cayce, Paramhansa Yogananda, Krishnamurti, Eckhart Tolle, etc.

I can only find answers in my own experience. And I realize that the Gospels are the individual experiences of certain souls in that age of time witnessing a divine-human person in their First Century Medittearanean lives. And it can be easily understood for nowadays by your own experience.

Experience-Faith-Action are the three components of a spiritual aspirant. And the goal is self-realization of who you truly are! And I don't mean self-realization that you are God, or you are some Pure Energy being, or some other nonsense.

Of course we all are sons and daughters of God. We are spirits. There is nothing to realize. You just become aware that your awareness is living a physical life and it continues through eternity. There is no "real" realization there. For me I am coming to know who I am and what I am meant to do. The divine is within us all but we don't need to realize it. What we need to realize are our faults, issues, addictions and transform into realizing our True Self, a son or daughter of God and whatever else we are to be. To be ourselves.

Jesus was himself. He didn't go around trying to be someone else. He was the Son of God. He was the Christ. He was one of the Trinity in human form. He lived his life and death in a sacred way. That was his purpose and his True Self.

What is Your True Self?