In Need of DESPERATE Help

[Patroclus]

The thing is, I feel like I might have the ability to hear others thoughts while they hear mine also. This has made life horribly unpleasant for me as my thoughts sometimes run wild. I am terrified to go in public because people ridicule me mentally due to the weird way in which I think. I don't want to do this anymore. Please, I am in desperate need of help. Is there a way to make it stop?

[res]

Hi Patroclus,

People always tell me to get out of their heads but its not an audible sound but more like a subject that just comes up out of nowhere. With my wife she just has to think about wanting me to pass her drink and unbenowns to me i just pass it. I often just start massaging her to which she asked how i knew she had pain there.

Can i ask how you know that others can hear your thoughts also? Has this just started?

[Gem]

Can i ask how you know that others can hear your thoughts also? Has this just started?

If it were true you already know the answers ay?

[res]

If it were true you already know the answers ay?

If what were true Gem?

[Gem]

If what were true Gem?

The OP thinks everyone canhear his thoughts, but if you could you wouldn't need to ask the questions.

Nor ask me that question.

[res]

The OP thinks everyone canhear his thoughts, but if you could you wouldn't need to ask the questions.

Nor ask me that question.

:confused: I dont recall making any claims to be able to read thoughts? I do believe that some information can be shared at a bio electro magnetic level but i havent claimed to be able to extract thoughts or read minds :confused:

Anyway this isnt about me and im hoping that we can help point Patroclus in the right direction to make it stop rather than contribute to the way he feels that others view him.

[Gem]

:confused: I dont recall making any claims to be able to read thoughts? I do believe that some information can be shared at a bio electro magnetic level but i havent claimed to be able to extract thoughts or read minds :confused:

Anyway this isnt about me and im hoping that we can help point Patroclus in the right direction to make it stop rather than contribute to the way he feels that others view him.

I am helping by showing you have no idea what the OP is thinking. Your first post was one which boasted your seeming psychic abilities, so I'm allaying the implication because making such claims to one who has these concerns is detrimental, not helpful.

[res]

I am helping by showing you have no idea what the OP is thinking. Your first post was one which boasted your seeming psychic abilities, so I'm allaying the implication because making such claims to one who has these concerns is detrimental, not helpful.

So how does making fun of a person that is convinced people are ridiculing him helpful? This isnt about me Gem and it never has been apart from your jokes at mine and Patroclus expense. I simply used my personal experience to make a connection and it didnt come from ego.

I havent at anytime claimed to know what patroclus is thinking :confused: .

No one has offered help to patroclus and he clearly is desperate to make sense of what is happening to him and to make it stop. Sometimes a simple question can be the turning point for a person to determine what is affecting them, which doesnt always turn out to be paranormal and is not for us to decide.

Sorry for the distraction Patroclus, i am really interested to understand what you are experiencing :smile:

[Gem]

So how does making fun of a person that is convinced people are ridiculing him helpful? This isnt about me Gem and it never has been apart from your jokes at mine and Patroclus expense. I simply used my personal experience to make a connection and it didnt come from ego.

I havent at anytime claimed to know what patroclus is thinking :confused: .

No one has offered help to patroclus and he clearly is desperate to make sense of what is happening to him and to make it stop. Sometimes a simple question can be the turning point for a person to determine what is affecting them, which doesnt always turn out to be paranormal and is not for us to decide.

Sorry for the distraction Patroclus, i am really interested to understand what you are experiencing :smile:

If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't have said what you did in your first post.

[John32241]

What I find interesting is that many with a natural telepathic skill do not want to deal with it. They wish to hide from their own potentials instead of embracing them.

I suspect that being fearful is the primary challenge that needs to be overcome. Once peace of mind is established, clear thinking and wise choices can be made.

In my view, a person is beyond help if they insist on being fear filled.

John

[Internal Queries]

The thing is, I feel like I might have the ability to hear others thoughts while they hear mine also. This has made life horribly unpleasant for me as my thoughts sometimes run wild. I am terrified to go in public because people ridicule me mentally due to the weird way in which I think. I don't want to do this anymore. Please, I am in desperate need of help. Is there a way to make it stop?


hi Patroclus, looks like you need to build some shields and filters. explaining how this done is nearly impossible since each individual engages their survival mechanisms in their own way. you might want to start with the "bubble of white light" method and innovate and fine tune from there.

also, it's been my experience that one's life conditioning and the POV created thereby can cause distortions at the point of reception. for instance, if you have a poor self image and the mental/emotional energy is filtering through that negative self concept you might feel and hear the thoughts of others as persecutory when, in fact, their thoughts/feelings are not directed at you all but are just generalized angst that you're picking up on and taking personally.

[Internal Queries]

The OP thinks everyone canhear his thoughts, but if you could you wouldn't need to ask the questions.

Nor ask me that question.


cute by half, Gem but revealing of your ignorance of how this phenom actually works.

[Patroclus]

hi Patroclus, looks like you need to build some shields and filters. explaining how this done is nearly impossible since each individual engages their survival mechanisms in their own way. you might want to start with the "bubble of white light" method and innovate and fine tune from there.

also, it's been my experience that one's life conditioning and the POV created thereby can cause distortions at the point of reception. for instance, if you have a poor self image and the mental/emotional energy is filtering through that negative self concept you might feel and hear the thoughts of others as persecutory when, in fact, their thoughts/feelings are not directed at you all but are just generalized angst that you're picking up on and taking personally.

You just blew my mind. I really agree with everything you said and in fact I have seen this "bubble of white light" used before. It was a girl and forgive me for saying this but it seems women have more control over this, as far as I have witnessed anyways. My self image is completely horrible because I have done some pretty ****ty things. And its not that people on the internet can hear my thoughts, I would have to have seen them before. I feel like I completely deserve to have a negative image. People are completely seeing my negativity of myself and people speculate on it and it makes me feel even worse. I wish I were dead because I always accidentally blurt out all the things I have done wrong in my past and people find me despicable and unbearable to be around. I just want to go back to normal. Please..God...Someone...Help..

[res]

My self image is completely horrible because I have done some pretty ****ty things. And its not that people on the internet can hear my thoughts, I would have to have seen them before. I feel like I completely deserve to have a negative image. People are completely seeing my negativity of myself and people speculate on it and it makes me feel even worse. I wish I were dead because I always accidentally blurt out all the things I have done wrong in my past and people find me despicable and unbearable to be around. I just want to go back to normal. Please..God...Someone...Help..
Dont beat yourself up Patroclus, there is not a single person on this planet that hasnt done something they are not proud of. Have you seen the way kids treat other kids. Its a natural process of learning by your mistakes but for us to get the best out of the negative experience we need decide that we have reached a level of maturity where we can take charge of a new day and move in a more positive direction.
What you did in the past is essential to forming your mature personaility and as a result you may be now more inclined to assist those you feel you harmed. Lets say you made fun of a paraplegic and learnt that it was a bad choice. The compassion you aquire for paraplegics from your realisation may drive you to dedicate your life to making a difference in their lives. This would correct the bad choice and turn it in to a positive experience that will never be repeated again.

Our past isnt a measure of who we are, its a measure of who we can become. You have realised that things you have done are wrong, which makes you a good person and are already on the right track.

You can change your life if you choose to accept that today is a new day and that you have learnt from your own actions in the past and move forward. Accept that you have learnt from your mistakes put them in the past and dont mention them again. If you are having trouble putting them in the past then i might suggest looking for someone that can give more attention to helping you process issues and revel the good person that i can see you always have been :smile:

You are normal, we all are unfortunately :redface:

[Patroclus]

Thank you res I really appreciate the response. If somebody could expand on the whole white light bubble thing to stop people from hearing my thoughts and seeing me in the astral plane and stop me from hearing and seeing them. I hear people speak of their "spiritual guides". Funny thing is, I have something sort of like that, but it's clear they don't want me on this planet anymore. They criticize me and insult me constantly and tell me to kill myself. I usually laugh it off and tell them to go F themselves. Life is too beautiful and short enough as it is. These "guides" are much more advanced in the astral plane, and it is quite evident that I won't be able to block them out. Maybe if God is willing and I am deserving, one day they will be erased from my life and all of this astral stuff will go away. Personally, I don't want to hear other thoughts or people to hear mine. Some people are much uglier in their mind and I just want to live a normal life. I would rather worry about the astral plane in the afterlife. Any input that might help me block others from entering my personal space would be much appreciated. I can sense that some of you have alot of experience with this and great amounts of wisdom to offer, as you already have. Please.

[Xan]

In my view, a person is beyond help if they insist on being fear filled.

John
In my view the help then begins with supporting the person in finding ways how to not be controlled by fear.

No one is "beyond help". That's just silly.


Xan

[kore_wa_sensou]

You just blew my mind. I really agree with everything you said and in fact I have seen this "bubble of white light" used before. It was a girl and forgive me for saying this but it seems women have more control over this, as far as I have witnessed anyways. My self image is completely horrible because I have done some pretty ****ty things. And its not that people on the internet can hear my thoughts, I would have to have seen them before. I feel like I completely deserve to have a negative image. People are completely seeing my negativity of myself and people speculate on it and it makes me feel even worse. I wish I were dead because I always accidentally blurt out all the things I have done wrong in my past and people find me despicable and unbearable to be around. I just want to go back to normal. Please..God...Someone...Help..

I really wish I can help you with this, Patroclus. Unfortunately, I don't know much about ESP and Telepathy. I just wanted to say this: Please don't wish for death. Everyone was put on this earth to do wonderful things. To help one another. Don't have a negative image of yourself because then people will pick up on that negativity. And personal negativity really brings you down and affects all areas of your life. If people look down on you, then don't worry about them. They're just not the right people for you. Everyone does wrong things and people shouldn't judge them for it. We're not perfect. You're special. Never forget that. You have a gift. I hope you solve your issue!

[Xan]

I feel like I completely deserve to have a negative image. People are completely seeing my negativity of myself and people speculate on it and it makes me feel even worse.

Patroclus... I'm now hearing a much different issue for you than simply eavesdropping telepathy.

It's possible for you to release and heal your negativity and self-judgment... really. There are ways to do it.

An excellent one is EFT - Emotional Freedom Techniques. Some people use this acupressure method for themselves, but in the beginning and with complex issues as you seem to have it's best to work with a trained practitioner, at least in the beginning.

You could look into it at: http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4478

and http://EFTuniverse.com (http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/redir.php?link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiritualforums.co m%2Fvb%2Fredir.php%3Flink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww .spiritualforums.com%252Fvb%252Fredir.php%253Flink %253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.spiritualforums. com%25252Fvb%25252Fredir.php%25253Flink%25253Dhttp %2525253A%2525252F%2525252FEFTuniverse.com)


Xan

[Internal Queries]

You just blew my mind. I really agree with everything you said and in fact I have seen this "bubble of white light" used before. It was a girl and forgive me for saying this but it seems women have more control over this, as far as I have witnessed anyways. My self image is completely horrible because I have done some pretty ****ty things. And its not that people on the internet can hear my thoughts, I would have to have seen them before. I feel like I completely deserve to have a negative image. People are completely seeing my negativity of myself and people speculate on it and it makes me feel even worse. I wish I were dead because I always accidentally blurt out all the things I have done wrong in my past and people find me despicable and unbearable to be around. I just want to go back to normal. Please..God...Someone...Help..


(((Patroclus))) i know this is difficult but try to calm down. you'll not make sense of your mind's activities if you're panicking.

it's my understand that empathy is the precursor to telepathy. we feel before we think and think in images and symbols before we form word thought so it's important for an empath to be able to discern his/her feelings from the emotions that are sensed from others. can you do this?

as for self esteem issues ... the clearer and more accurate is your perception of yourself the clearer and more accurate will be your perception of others. being self honest not only includes examining and correcting one's flaws and foibles but accepting one's goodness and beauty as well.

ya know? if you're were really so very despicable you wouldn't care that you were. the fact that you're filled with remorse indicates that there's plenty of beauty and goodness in you to work with.

[Patroclus]

I honestly couldn't imagine where all of you gained so much knowledge in this subject. To be honest, when I came to this site I thought it might not be the real deal, but I can tell by responses that alot of you actually have connected with the Astral Plane and are not fakers. Especially Internal Queries..You seem so....familiar. Maybe I have never met you or communicated with you, but gosh does it seem like you know exactly what I'm talking about. And Xan I will be looking into this EFT very closely. Much appreciation. So glad you guys actually know what you are talking about! This forum may just save my life.

Also I did some searching but didn't find much on this "bubble of white light" method. Are there steps to follow to be able to pull this off?

[Gem]

cute by half, Gem but revealing of your ignorance of how this phenom actually works.

Not at all... I completely understand the issue.

[res]

Not at all... I completely understand the issue.
Maybe you do Gem. Seems you maybe coming more from a scientifc standpoint, where others maybe coming from a paranormal stand point and i am coming from both. Science is probably telling you that these symptoms are closely related to what doctors call paranoid schitzophrenia and the paranormal invstigators may relate it to telepathy.

My best friend lost his brother not too long ago as his brother focussed on the paranormal side of what was happening to him and couldnt handle it so I have to be honest with you Patroclus because if something happened to you and i didnt do something about it i wouldnt be able to forgive myself.

Its all good to look in to the paranormal to understand what we are experiencing. I am a firm believer in the paranormal if the indicators point to that direction but if the paranormal pushes me toward wanting to end my life then i would be taking this to my doctor as he has medications that can close down the telepathic/auditory parts of our brains. What you are experiencing is clearly out of your control and it will control you if you dont take charge through the right channels.

You can reclaim the normal life that you are asking for and all it will take is a short conversation. This could buy you some time to research all sides of what you are experiencing to understand it fully with a calm mind that is not distracted by all that negative **** :wink:

[Internal Queries]

Not at all... I completely understand the issue.


gee ... one might imagine that if you understood you'd not be so snarky.

[Internal Queries]

i agree that if one can not get a handle on one's inner situation that it might be best to see a shrink.

[Patroclus]

I was thinking the same about seeing a doctor. The thing is, how do I tell him what is happening without sounding insane? I am no fool and I know if I go to a doctor and tell him I am hearing voices, I will most likely end up in some loony bin or something. I need to figure out a way to get the right medication without hurting my reputation too severely. What medication has the ability to shut out those parts of my brain? This sounds wonderful to me!

[Xan]

Patroclus... You could look for a doctor who is at least somewhat aware in the astral and spiritual levels of life. There are some, you know.


Xan

[SunMist]

Hi Patroclus, I have a few thoughts for you....

1) About seeing a doctor, I have found that antidepressants (SSRI type like Prozac, Celexa, etc.) can have suppressive effects. But if you are actually having delusions/hallucinations maybe an antipsychotic could be better. I can understand your challenge because most doctors that your insurance would pay for are not well-informed or respectful on metaphysical topics. Still an SSRI might be a safe place to start and it's easy to get, they give them out for the mildest depression - a practice I disagree with actually but that's another rant.

2) Do not dismiss the rational part of yourself. It is possible for you to be dealing with real telepathy and esp, and still keep a critical mind. TEST your assumptions. If people can hear your thoughts then you should be able to go into a public place and deliberately project a thought at them that gets a predictable response. Test, test, test and observe.

3) Just for background I myself struggle with mild telepathy and strong empathy. It does exist but you must be rigorous in what you attribute to it and what others have said is true - being overcome by fear just complicates everything. There's a ton of information out there on shielding - just google "psychic shields" and you will find it.

4) The issues with feeling negative about yourself or thinking your guides are saying harmful things to you (that's not your guides - likely it is a section of your own psyche) are things best explored and helped in therapy. Still methods like EFT that Xan? wrote about are an awesome way to help yourself on your own. Sedona Method is great too.

[Nada]

I was thinking the same about seeing a doctor. The thing is, how do I tell him what is happening without sounding insane? I am no fool and I know if I go to a doctor and tell him I am hearing voices, I will most likely end up in some loony bin or something. I need to figure out a way to get the right medication without hurting my reputation too severely. What medication has the ability to shut out those parts of my brain? This sounds wonderful to me!

Do NOT fear.
Fear should not be the reason to avoid a medical help. You will not end up in a "loony bin" when you are not harming yourself or others.
You need to determine first that your condition is not a medical problem.
After that, you can determine if you are actually having a telepathic issue.

I hear people speak of their "spiritual guides". Funny thing is, I have something sort of like that, but it's clear they don't want me on this planet anymore. They criticize me and insult me constantly and tell me to kill myself.

But if voices are telling you to commit a suicide, this is not a telepathic issue. I strongly suggest that you seek an immediate medical help ASAP.
This kind of situation is very harmful and stressful. I worry about how this can affect your physical health.

[SunMist]

But if voices are telling you to commit a suicide, this is not a telepathic issue. I strongly suggest that you seek an immediate medical help ASAP.
This kind of situation is very harmful and stressful. I worry about how this can affect your physical health.

Great point Nada, this is actually the most important thing of all.

[Lynn]

Hello

Here is the Bubble Method.


Protection Exercise

Aim: To strengthenyour natural protection

Find a place where you can sit undisturbed.

• Choose White. Carryout the Inner Light Exercise.

• Close your eyes and imagine or sense that you are creatinga bubble of light, extending to about 2 feet around yourself, which is composedof White. Make sure that this light isabove your head, as well as under your feet.

•Sense or imagine this light expanding and contracting untilyou feel that you have found the most comfortable distance.

•Sense or imagine this light alternating between being stationaryand spinning like a top.

• Open your eyes and sense this protection is still aroundyou.



I have used this since I was 16 and yes I hear voices but I know its just how I be. I sense the energies from other's and at times hear thier thoughts.....that is being Empathic, I too hear Spirits ( dead people) and that too is ok.

What I do not hear is voices telling me to do things like harm me or do things to other's that is where I feel on does cross the line to where medical help is SO SO needed and the med's do at times help that. For me would med's quiet then ? NO.

[Patroclus]

I can assure you all that this is telepathic issue. Trust me, I know how it seems. I am a completely rational and sensible person who bases my entire life around logic. When this started happening, it was amazing. My guides encouraged me and everything was great. The problem is, I started doing it too often and getting a little too good at it. I would constantly bother other people by forcing them to listen to my thoughts (on accident). It got to the point where everytime I thought of somebody, it was like we were having a complete conversation, except I have been told I am much more annoying in my head.

My guides fear that I am disturbing the fabric of which the way the world works. It is too easy for me to do it, it is such a problem that it has consumed me. If telling a Doctor that I am schizo or something will subdue this part of my brain, then I guess I will do that.But I am very meticulous about everything in my life, too much so in fact. If I wasn't absolutely sure the problem was telepathic, I find it hard to believe I would be here.

For those of you that have helped, just by your responses, I could tell I came to a good place. I can tell people here actually are legit about having experience. To those I am thankful. To the people who have offered doubt, I understand why but I assure you this is not a mental problem. I would give anything to slow the stream of thoughts I am having and return to my beautiful life. Life is amazing, and I just don't see myself ever taking my own life. I may feel that way sometimes, but lord knows I would NEVER do it. I guess its just an over-dramatic way I used to express my feelings.

Again, I can tell this place is the place to be. For all of the positive input, I am grateful. If anybody has more to add, good or bad, I would love to hear it. I can use all the help and motivation I can get right now. I just want to get a job, have a girlfriend, raise a family and live a normal life. Telepathy is just not for me. I just don't want to have this ability :(

[Lynn]

Hello

Here is the Bubble Method


Protection Exercise

Aim: To strengthenyour natural protection

Find a place where you can sit undisturbed.

• Choose White. Carryout the Inner Light Exercise.

• Close your eyes and imagine or sense that you are creatinga bubble of light, extending to about 2 feet around yourself, which is composedof White. Make sure that this light isabove your head, as well as under your feet.

•Sense or imagine this light expanding and contracting untilyou feel that you have found the most comfortable distance.

•Sense or imagine this light alternating between beingstationary and spinning like a top.

• Open your eyes and sense this protection is still aroundyou.

I have been using this since I was 16 and it really helps. I am Empathic and too I work in the Spirit World so I know well voicies in the head. Over time I have learned to turn them down to a vibtational level I can handle.

Where voices in the head differ is when one hear's messages telling them to do things or harm self. That is where I know that medical help should be for sure sought.

I struggled on the DR issues too. I ha ve a Devoute Catholic Dr....and I honestly did not know HOW she would embrace that part of me. IT was ok her concern was that I had soeone to talk to about the work I did the could and would understand how hard it might well be at times. That I was in good balance with me mate and family with all that goes on.

So the mesage there to one's that just say see a Dr. at times is all well and good but I know from me own life path that the BEST of the BEST help I got was from being able to talk things out and find some that shared in the similar experiences so I did not feel so very alone.
I draw on LIFE experience and there is NO HARM in sharing in those experiences with someone else that is having some life struggles. We learn much from seeing we are not alone in what goes on with us. YES there is fear that is quite normal.
NO we are not professionals here we though are HUMAN and can have that compassion and understanding show though to other's. Remember no one is perfect and that even the best of the Dr's too can make an error.


Lynn

[SunMist]

Patroclus, I wish you lots of luck with this problem. One thing that might help us here to help you more would be if you could describe what you've already tried that doesn't help and also what a typical scenario demonstrating how you experience the problem would be like.

I do have a lot of sympathy because my own empath abilities have caused me so much grief and while I've used many many methods nothing truly 100% works. It doesn't make much sense to me why people should have psychic abilities if they can't be controlled or if it is a torment to them. For people who can control it that's a different story, but I really wonder about the meaning and purpose otherwise. Oh well, no great wisdom to offer here but I hope you find some answers.

[Joshua Flynn]

You just blew my mind. I really agree with everything you said and in fact I have seen this "bubble of white light" used before. It was a girl and forgive me for saying this but it seems women have more control over this, as far as I have witnessed anyways. My self image is completely horrible because I have done some pretty ****ty things. And its not that people on the internet can hear my thoughts, I would have to have seen them before. I feel like I completely deserve to have a negative image. People are completely seeing my negativity of myself and people speculate on it and it makes me feel even worse. I wish I were dead because I always accidentally blurt out all the things I have done wrong in my past and people find me despicable and unbearable to be around. I just want to go back to normal. Please..God...Someone...Help..

Keep calm. I had an individual who basically came out of nowhere and told me my entire personal history (we're talking stuff no-one else knew). Blurting it out isn't so bad, and probably could, with some practice, be controlled. I had a compulsion to continually blurt cuss words out at one point as a kid, but after time and practice, it's not often (mistakes do happen, but that's normal - a part of life!).

Now, I have to echo a similar question to res, in asking how you know it's telepathy, and not say, for example, very active imagination? I know in my case it was telepathy, for example, because people told me things no-one else knew, and in another, because I knew stuff about other people that they hadn't told me about.

So, how do you know it's other people who are thinking the negative things? I know that negative self-talk can get you down a lot (I've been there so much! Seems like everything goes wrong!), but are you sure it's other people thinking negatively, and not just the negative self-talk of 'oh no, I've screwed it up again' and the 'how stupid of me!'?

I ask, because, without any examples of where the telepathy is affecting you, it would be difficult to offer any suggestions. Because, if I was to offer advice for filtering out telepathic thoughts, for example, it wouldn't be much use if you were dealing with your own doubts and fears (being seen as apparent telepathy), which would require encouragement and insights.

Likewise, encouragement to beat the blues is no good, if it's an externalised source that is the issue. Like any good doctor, they would have to first ask the symptoms and examples of the symptoms, to assess what the true cause is. It is no good to just give advice for the wrong cause.

[Lauraye]

Patroclus, you are not alone, my boyfriend suffers from this too, he believes his thoughts project and he can hear what others think, I am no expert but I have been helping for over 5 years to overcome his fears! I burn a lot of oils such as lavender and frankincense to help calm him!! Try not to fear as I believe negative energy can manifest and could make things worse! Everyones thoughts are important and our energy is so powerful, you have a gift and learning how to deal with this should be your focal point.

[krishna]

Do not fear my light is with you.
Expect changes for the better very soon.
In pure light.
Krishna.

[Lauraye]

John your words are so true and I do believe that denial, doubt and fear to a nautral gift can be the worst thing to do! It is better to research and learn how to use a gift rather than block it!

[res]

John your words are so true and I do believe that denial, doubt and fear to a nautral gift can be the worst thing to do! It is better to research and learn how to use a gift rather than block it!

I agree Lauraye though i feel sometimes a gift is recieved prematurely and it really depends on the individual and when they are ready to accept it. Sort of like getting a dinner setting prematurely for your 10th birthday when it probably should have been better timed as your wedding present. I suppose we could just put it in the cupboard and ignore it until the times comes that we have a use for it.

Hey how you doing Patroclus? How's the mission going?

[Lauraye]

Res I love this concept, it is so true! Maybe some receive to early! Maybe we are to young at this point to understand!