spiritual intelligence

[Il'Divino]

apparently we can measure intelligence(IQ), emotional inteligence, financial intelligence etc. I wonder if we can measure spiritual intelligence. What attributes would have to be taken into consideration and how would we go about measuring it?

[mattie]

Some of these measures of various types of intelligence are subject to being questioned. They can be based on rather arbritrary standards.

I suspect this gauge of spiritual intelligence would vary considerably according to what beliefs one chooses. Those of organized religion would invariably have lists specific to their particular faith while those of post-organized religious thought would have other criteria.

[moke64916]

apparently we can measure intelligence(IQ), emotional inteligence, financial intelligence etc. I wonder if we can measure spiritual intelligence. What attributes would have to be taken into consideration and how would we go about measuring it?
All of the above my friend, all of the above. And more.

[Gracey]

apparently we can measure intelligence(IQ), emotional inteligence, financial intelligence etc. I wonder if we can measure spiritual intelligence. What attributes would have to be taken into consideration and how would we go about measuring it?

self actualization would be my answer.

[innerlight]

A spiritual person would tell you the answer is that there is no answer to this question. They are the same with everyone else that is along their respective paths.

Could you measure it? Sure, but measuring something such as "spiritual intelligence" would be using ego to decide what type of level you were at. Once you did that I'm sure it could be easy to decide who was better than who. I mean look at the church they have different branches in a hierarchy system.

[psychoslice]

Natural intelligence cannot be measured, how can you measure the intelligence of a flower, or the sun, or the Cosmos, now if we call our intelligence spiritual, then the concept spiritual becomes our measure, but who's measure, it then depends on who's concept of what spirituality is, or not.

[Apakhana Akshobhya]

I think you have to separate intellect from spirit.

They are 2 sepearate things. They are 2 different parts of "us."

Our intellect, as part of the brain, isn't really a spiritual part to us as I see it. It is more a tool of the human body/brain or rather an 'interface' you are using while you are alive. It's your awareness of the unseen and spiritual that allows you to use your intellect in speciffic and distinguished ways.

There is an answer, and I also agree with the others who have said indirectly that it has to do with how aware you are. CONCIOUS AWARENESS.

The nature of Spiritual Spiritual 'intellegence' seemingly has to do with our level of awareness, awareness of ourself and of our world coupled with an understanding of how to operate in it.

Your intellegence in a spiritual sense has to do with developing understanding and possessing the wisdom to put what you know into operation.

You can not measure the intellect of a thing like natural intellegence, a flower, water, the wind, etc.... because they have no consciousness. They posses being and have an essence, but they are not sentient or conscious; Therefore, they can not become aware.

[Il'Divino]

Some of these measures of various types of intelligence are subject to being questioned. They can be based on rather arbritrary standards.

I suspect this gauge of spiritual intelligence would vary considerably according to what beliefs one chooses. Those of organized religion would invariably have lists specific to their particular faith while those of post-organized religious thought would have other criteria.

to a certain point you words have some truth in them. I had an experience with the Jehovahs Witnesses religion and it was pretty interesting to note that they have a way of measuring spiritual progress, according to their own standards that is. For example a going out to preach regularly and submiting a credital written report detailing the hours worked, bible studies conducted, magazines and books sold etc, is taken as a sign and proof of positive spiritual progress. Answering frequently, giving talks or taking more responsibilities at their religious gatherings are taken as proof of spiritual maturity. I for 1 think its ridiculous especialy since no two people can ever truly know each other's motives.

[Il'Divino]

if you say conscious awareness can you define it and how do you think it would be measured?

[Apakhana Akshobhya]

Our conscious awareness is the essential part of you, I think it's the spiritual part of you that everything else builds off of. It's the part of you that allows for self-realization and awakening. Without it we are automatons that simply carry out a function of life or perform nature's program, but with it we can come to know instead of sleep.

It with awareness that we come to learn about ourself and thus our life and universe. Only by having the ability to be aware in a human body do we really learn the correlation between the internal world and the external and the macrocosmic to the microcosms.

It is hard to measure awareness because it can't be put under a microscope or tested with instruments (although the interface that is the brain can). The occult force of our awareness can seemingly only be measured in our responses to our environment and our amount of understanding we seem to posses. Maybe you can think of some other examples to expand upon.

I say though, sadly, we are still seemingly at the mercy of how well our organism functions with regards to our level of awareness. If our senses don't function correctly then the totality of impressions will be hindered or lessened. A blind person can not and won't be aware of colors for example. A deaf person will never know music or how it feels to be moved by it, etc...

[Xan]

... measuring something such as "spiritual intelligence" would be using ego to decide what type of level you were at.


Well said, Innerlight.

Besides, spiritual intelligence is intuitive wisdom that has none of the limitations of brain-based informational intelligence.

What is the measurement of infinite?


Xan

[zipzip]

I also believe spiritual intelligence is intuition, listen to our inner being. How could we ever measure that?



zipzip

[fM55]

I think you have to separate intellect from spirit.

They are 2 sepearate things. They are 2 different parts of "us."

Our intellect, as part of the brain, isn't really a spiritual part to us as I see it. It is more a tool of the human body/brain or rather an 'interface' you are using while you are alive. It's your awareness of the unseen and spiritual that allows you to use your intellect in speciffic and distinguished ways.

There is an answer, and I also agree with the others who have said indirectly that it has to do with how aware you are. CONCIOUS AWARENESS.

The nature of Spiritual Spiritual 'intellegence' seemingly has to do with our level of awareness, awareness of ourself and of our world coupled with an understanding of how to operate in it.

Your intellegence in a spiritual sense has to do with developing understanding and possessing the wisdom to put what you know into operation.

You can not measure the intellect of a thing like natural intellegence, a flower, water, the wind, etc.... because they have no consciousness. They posses being and have an essence, but they are not sentient or conscious; Therefore, they can not become aware.

I agree with this approach of separating intellect from spirit, being two parts of “us”.

Awareness is the soul and consciousness is the physical bridge between the soul and the physical universe.

Your human body/brain interface is the physical bridge to the soul/spiritual and the physical universe. Consciousness is a quality of a physical organism that develops over time. Consciousness is the entire nervous system that exists in the organism; the nervous system grows and often alters its configuration over time, i.e. the brain develops through the entire lifespan. Consciousness can be damaged or altered either by some physically damage that has occurred or by teratogens or sometimes temporarily by drugs.

Awareness existed prior to conception, i.e. it is a property of the soul, but exists throughout the lifespan, though awareness decreases as the physical organism develops over time. The organism develops perceptual filters to accommodate with reality as it grows to maturity.

I would argue that it is possible that anything living may have a soul or awareness, possibly even a flower. As far as spiritual intelligence I believe one of the questions that would need answering is what the soul takes with it after death, what did it gain from the experiences of living in this or any world?

[innerlight]

... measuring something such as "spiritual intelligence" would be using ego to decide what type of level you were at.


Well said, Innerlight.

Besides, spiritual intelligence is intuitive wisdom that has none of the limitations of brain-based informational intelligence.

What is the measurement of infinite?


Xan

I'm not a math major but I would say there is no way to measure infinite as it would keep on going.

To me that would be the same as spiritual intelligence. There is no measure as it does not stop.

The only way one would be able to measure something they would need to have a start and a stop.

[fM55]

I'm not a math major but I would say there is no way to measure infinite as it would keep on going.

To me that would be the same as spiritual intelligence. There is no measure as it does not stop.

The only way one would be able to measure something they would need to have a start and a stop.

I'm not a math major either but there are different levels of infinity.
For example the concept of a set where there is a one-to-one correspondence between the set and the natural numbers is called infinite or countable, but there many things, sets that are uncountable; e.g. the irrational numbers or the real numbers (real number system can’t be proven, we believe in them). If I remember correctly these sets were called infinity squared.

[Humm]

A spiritual person would tell you the answer is that there is no answer to this question. They are the same with everyone else that is along their respective paths.

Could you measure it? Sure, but measuring something such as "spiritual intelligence" would be using ego to decide what type of level you were at. Once you did that I'm sure it could be easy to decide who was better than who. I mean look at the church they have different branches in a hierarchy system.

I'm going to have to say 'Yes and no' to this.

Can 'Spiritual Intelligence' be quantitatively defined in any absolute sense, like a physics equation? Of course not. To do so would require omniscience, and that's a whole other can of worms.

But that's not to say the pursuit doesn't have it's merits, or it's usefulness. Of course, like anything else, such a thing could be abused for unethical purposes - and has! - a fear I see in many of these responses.

The ego and the intellect are much maligned by the 'spiritual' set - but I hold that all things have their use and their mis-use - yes, even Spirit!

The fact is 'spiritual intelligence' is quantified all the time. Read any spiritual book, listen to any spiritual speaker, and conveyed will be a list of values we are to judge our thoughts and actions by - heck, all the posts in this very thread reflect these values and judgements - but that is OKAY! We are free to accept the 'score' or not, whether it is a formalized test or not, and in fact this is the traditional sequence of events as they have been happening ever since the first Guru took his first disciple.

The problems with ego and intellect aren't in their very existence, it is when they are allowed to run things that we have problems. Ego is our drive of survival as an individual and organism, which the Buddha found in his moment of enlightenment can be killed - but we die with it. Intellect is a tool of conceptual manipulation and valuation - no more, no less, neither good nor bad.

Ego and intellect in the service of Spirit, however, is the synergy that is necessary for conscious evolution into Spirit, both within and without ourselves. Why should we take that first leap of faith without reasoning there is something on the other side first? How are we to manifest a better world without solving real problems of human local and global society?

I think a moment's reflection on any of these aspects reveals that we need every resource and advantage we can muster if we are to be the best that we can be. Yes, this means our values and awareness must be centered in Spirit - but then this perspective must be brought back and made manifest in the world at large, and that takes far more than faith or expanded consciousness, as the Buddha also discovered. :hug:

[Riboflavin]

I disagree with innerlight. "Spiritual" intelligence can be measured just like any other characteristic. Some people clearly have more of it than others. I can name a few on this site.
I can also see differences between the average intelligence of the members between this site and other sites. Also, the fact that most kinds of tests of intellect are not 100% accurate isn't necessarily an indication that it cant be measured but rather, the makers of the tests haven't accounted for all the variables. The good ones are still 90% accurate anyway.

Also, if i were to make a spiritual intelligence test, i would begin by making it in 3 parts. One would require an fmri and an eeg scan and rate how spiritually enlightened they are by their scan results. Secondly, I would set up a series of control questions designed to see if they can answer the questions relatively from a non-relative place. Third, i would have them make spiritual writings and compare those writings with thousands of other tested individuals. In doing that, im sure i would be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, and the einsteins from the newtons

Making a good test for spiritual intelligence would require years of testing hundreds of thousands of people, refinement, trial and error, and a lot of math. It could be done though.

[moke64916]

apparently we can measure intelligence(IQ), emotional inteligence, financial intelligence etc. I wonder if we can measure spiritual intelligence. What attributes would have to be taken into consideration and how would we go about measuring it?
Do you feel and hear the stillness? If you do, then there is your spiritual intelligence. In that stillness there is deep peace, joy, and love.

[innerlight]

I disagree with innerlight. "Spiritual" intelligence can be measured just like any other characteristic. Some people clearly have more of it than others. I can name a few on this site.
I can also see differences between the average intelligence of the members between this site and other sites. Also, the fact that most kinds of tests of intellect are not 100% accurate isn't necessarily an indication that it cant be measured but rather, the makers of the tests haven't accounted for all the variables. The good ones are still 90% accurate anyway.

Also, if i were to make a spiritual intelligence test, i would begin by making it in 3 parts. One would require an fmri and an eeg scan and rate how spiritually enlightened they are by their scan results. Secondly, I would set up a series of control questions designed to see if they can answer the questions relatively from a non-relative place. Third, i would have them make spiritual writings and compare those writings with thousands of other tested individuals. In doing that, im sure i would be able to separate the wheat from the chaff, and the einsteins from the newtons

Making a good test for spiritual intelligence would require years of testing hundreds of thousands of people, refinement, trial and error, and a lot of math. It could be done though.
As I said and as you have confirmed here to measure ones spiritual intelligence you would need a start and a stop. You have offered a start and a stop in your argument. Your start was zero and the end result was enlightened. Now for this stop to actually have an actual bearing one would then would need to define what it means to be "enlightened." You would also then say that your intelligence is not infinite but is finite and stops at enlightenment.

Where it also fails to convey actual meaning is that you would also have to have a solid definition of what it means to be "spiritual." If Joe Smith fully believes he has fully handed his life over to Jesus Christ and Sally Jane fully believes she has given her full love to the moon goddess. Who there would be more spiritual? Both examples are spiritual in nature. Yet they convey two different things. Each example would also have to be defined which was more enlightened. To the Christian he may feel he is enlightened to the max as he knows of the "true" nature of a soul. The Pagan would say they are enlightened because they know the "true" nature of the soul.

[innerlight]

I'm not a math major either but there are different levels of infinity.
For example the concept of a set where there is a one-to-one correspondence between the set and the natural numbers is called infinite or countable, but there many things, sets that are uncountable; e.g. the irrational numbers or the real numbers (real number system can’t be proven, we believe in them). If I remember correctly these sets were called infinity squared.

If there were different levels to infinity would that not say that it would be measurable thing now? You would have stop. Then you would have infinity. Then you would have the next level of infinity. So on and so on.

If you have something that is infinite would it not have a start of stop and be more of a circle? Could one really measure the circle? I suppose one could measure what wasn't on the circle but that would imply that something could not be on the circle thus saying infinite has a finite side of not being on it at all.

[fM55]

If there were different levels to infinity would that not say that it would be measurable thing now? You would have stop. Then you would have infinity. Then you would have the next level of infinity. So on and so on.

If you have something that is infinite would it not have a start of stop and be more of a circle? Could one really measure the circle? I suppose one could measure what wasn't on the circle but that would imply that something could not be on the circle thus saying infinite has a finite side of not being on it at all.

Innerlight,

Perhaps order is the more appropriate word than level. One order of infinity may be something more than another, though both have a start it is not to say that either is measurably in the sense of either of them having a “stop”, they are comparable in the sense of one being something more than the other. Again with the idea of natural numbers, you start with one, add one and have two,…, this can be done indefinitely without end i.e. no stop. Even though both the set of natural numbers and the set of real numbers are infinite, they do not have "the same number of elements." As for measuring spiritual intelligence I think the idea of being able to compare differences in whatever quality defined may be of value, as it can have relevant importance for the individual and their own development.

[innerlight]

Innerlight,

Perhaps order is the more appropriate word than level. One order of infinity may be something more than another, though both have a start it is not to say that either is measurably in the sense of either of them having a “stop”, they are comparable in the sense of one being something more than the other. Again with the idea of natural numbers, you start with one, add one and have two,…, this can be done indefinitely without end i.e. no stop. Even though both the set of natural numbers and the set of real numbers are infinite, they do not have "the same number of elements." As for measuring spiritual intelligence I think the idea of being able to compare differences in whatever quality defined may be of value, as it can have relevant importance for the individual and their own development.

For it to have any importance and help an individual in their development it would need to be defined as to what that importance is as well as to define the end goal for an individual.

What me and Xan were getting at was that within spiritual their is no end goal. It is a continuous journey. If there is a continuous journey is there a way to really measure that? IMO, there is no way to measure that.

To me labels of what ones value is based upon their intelligence do not help their journey. They hinder it and can make a person self conscious about where they are on their journey. It can also turn spiritual progress into a competition.

[Mr Interesting]

I did some study years ago to try and figure out if I was clever or stupid and came upon the mensa organisation. They have a test for IQ which is basically about problem solving.

Indeed, problem solving is often about doing what you can with what you've got and I don't see any reason why this can't or couldn't be applied to spirituality.

I would suggest that the reasons why someone might argue that something isn't quantifiable is of more import than how to quantify it.

We can only ever do what we can with what we've got but some can do far more with what they have than others, and possibly alike the early developers of Mensa, the developers of a spiritual intelligence quota might find that those seemingly under the banner of "poor" had greater problem solving abilities than "rich".

That's what I found so interesting about Mensa, and may be pertinent here, is that the people who started Mensa were trying to define that "rich" people were obviously more intelligent because they had money but over time they came to realise that the "poor" people were actually better at solving problems than the rich simply because there lives had more need to...

Maybe the same is true of the concept of spiritual intelligence whereby those of the opinion that they have the most to lose by creating a measurable construct are in fact lower than they believe if such things were in fact quantifiable.

[Jules]

Personally I don't think you CAN measure spiritual intelligence as everyone works at a different pace, with their own understandings, beliefs and truths. Everyone has their own perceptions but it's only as your own awareness develops do you move into the higher echelons of the spiritual journey. If you're trying to gauge yourself another spiritually, you're not honouring yourself in my eyes. You are exactly where you're meant to be. It's only through experience will you learn. Just my two cents x

[psychoslice]

I do use the words, spiritual intelligence, but in reality i don't think there can be such thing, to say there is spiritual intelligence is to say also, that there isn't, this makes spirit duality, there is just spirit, what we label that as, is not spirit. What we believe is outside spirit is ignorance, but that's just an illusion, you can label the ignorance, but it makes no difference to what IS.

[blackraven]

I read a book a few years back called "Emotional Intelligence" and it made the comparison that a person could be intellectually very smart, but emotionally very immature. I think the same is true for spiritual intelligence. However, I agree with Jules in that everyone is on a continuum learning curve to which they move both forward, backward, up and down and sometimes are stagnant depending on what's going on in his/her life. The spiritual journey is a very personal experience and cannot be compartmentalized and packaged up neatly in a box to label for any one given individual. Therefore, we cannot label an IQ to spirituality either. IMO

Blackraven

[Mr Interesting]

Basically I can agree that spirituality isn't really a quantifiable thing but we all make judgement calls, often for our own safety - without putting to fine a point on the definition of safety, in order to determine where another stands, or the level they are at, so that we can define how to communicate to that person.

So we may well decide that such is un-measurable while spending alot of time actually measuring.

Before Linnaeus came along and applied a system of categorisation to the plant kingdom it may have very well been thought that such a complex interactive system defied categorisation. Therefore though Spirituality may defy a linear form of measurements it may very well, and I think that we intuitively do this all the time, be developing into a system of categorisation that would not preclude some form of measurement being intrinsically useful.

[Il'Divino]

but how do people measure emotional intelligence since emotions themselves are wave functions and are intangible?

[SpiritualGuidance]

Personally I don't think you CAN measure spiritual intelligence as everyone works at a different pace, with their own understandings, beliefs and truths. Everyone has their own perceptions but it's only as your own awareness develops do you move into the higher echelons of the spiritual journey. If you're trying to gauge yourself another spiritually, you're not honouring yourself in my eyes. You are exactly where you're meant to be. It's only through experience will you learn. Just my two cents x

I agree with Jules here. There is no way to measure spiritual intelligence. It is based on individuals perception to their life. How they want to live and what makes them happy.

Something can make one happy but it cannot e said for sure that the other will also be happy. So everyone has their own happiness meters and their own judgement.

[xebiche]

deleted post

[xebiche]

apparently we can measure intelligence(IQ), emotional inteligence, financial intelligence etc. I wonder if we can measure spiritual intelligence. What attributes would have to be taken into consideration and how would we go about measuring it?



Right,

When we are stuck contemplating spirituality from a single vantage, our perspective is "singular".


However if we are either fortunate enough or brave enough we can engage another secondary perspective.


Entheogens offer that secondary pespective.


With this stereo vision there is depth,


and everything comes into focus,


and then you can begin to put real cognification into spiritual matters.






Never underestimate the virtue of bravery. It is often our vehicle. Often it takes bravery for us to achieve intelligence, especially if the intelligence you seek is spiritual.

[krishna]

You can measure this by your humilty and oneness with all creation.
In pure light and truth.
Krishna.

[JaysonR]

apparently we can measure intelligence(IQ), emotional inteligence, financial intelligence etc. I wonder if we can measure spiritual intelligence. What attributes would have to be taken into consideration and how would we go about measuring it?
The only reason that you would measure spiritual acumen would be to understand the individual's capacity for articulation through their ontological discernment.

Or to say it another way; the only reason that you would measure a person's 'body intelligence' would be if the goal was for the person to move more exacting with their body according to their will.

To do either is to measure subjectively, as individuals retain remarkably differing relationships unto their body, or unto their spirituality.

The measure, therefore, is a question to the individual: is this the degree of articulation you wish to have, and is it enough for the conditions you wish to reside within?

If the answer is no, then the measured result is that they have more development to work for a more efficient articulation.
If the answer is yes, then the measured result is that they have enough.

If, on the other hand, it is observed that they are mistaken; then that is up to judgement relative to the value of what is or is not considered good quality articulation of the self of that individual's spiritually.

For this, there is no universal measure.
It is subject to the governing values of the individuals involved.

And for this reason, spiritual practices in human history have typically included some form of tutor and pupil relationship among practitioners; thereby permitting both a subjective and locally-universal means of measure due to a shared value of good quality articulation.