nothing from nothing?

[jondav]

My theory is that nothing i.e. us, could be created from a mindless pointless ,dead universe,you dont get anything from nothing,the chance of that happening ,is like saying that a bunch of monkeys will eventually type the complete works of Shakespere,with quite a few noughts added on against this supposition,My apologies to any primates reading this.

[starfish]

My theory is that nothing i.e. us, could be created from a mindless pointless ,dead universe,you dont get anything from nothing,the chance of that happening ,is like saying that a bunch of monkeys will eventually type the complete works of Shakespere,with quite a few noughts added on against this supposition,My apologies to any primates reading this.

It is beyond my reason to accept than anything can come from nothing; So i will follow the wise guidance of Silver Birch and Reject it.
Whatever clever speculation, calculations. theoretical models etc that have brought about this idea is just that - speculative intellectualism gone wild- as has been described by many other scientists who are averse to such an idea.
Besides which, those ideas do not take into account consciousness , or the survival of consciousness after this life in other realms. Of course it cant take those into account. Notwithstanding that life is continuous to those who know- another reason on the level of intellect i reject it.
On a level of consciousness above intellect ,it does not have the note of truth for me. Since truths are 'known' by the note of truth (not by logic or argument, on this plane of consciousness)
it does not ring true..

Additionally I think that the universe is infinite , without beginning or end. It is well beyond anyone's understanding not just on this plane , but on the next- as many wise souls have communicated through mediumship. We have a long long way go on the road of unfoldment.
Speaking of monkeys ,we are a very arrogant species , we came down from the trees yesterday and today we think we know the secrets of the universe.

From listening to many communicators from the next life they are unanimous in their description that behind matter as the guilding principle is energy , behind energy is mind. So that the guilding principle for the universe is thought . .

and that's what i think.. :smile:

[CaramelDancer]

Interesting thought, jondav.

Speaking scientifically, if you rearrange E=mc2 to Mass=E/c2 then I guess one could say that mass (aka something) was creating from fast moving energy (although I wouldn't really call fast moving energy 'nothing').

I would say the edges between matter and the immaterial are quite blurred, given that all matter is nearly entirely empty space, or so we think.

Also, scientifically, all humans are primates. :)

[Gem]

Probably mindless, but not dead, I mean organic life formed in the universe, but prior to that, the universe provided the conditions for life.

One day, when it's the planet of the apes, you'll really will be sorry.

[arive nan]

I can conceive of something coming from nothing. But nothing is not really nothing. It is zero. Zero exists. And when the somethings as we understand them came to be, they came from that zero turning into +1 and -1. The system as a whole still adds up to zero. The somethings we see, the particles and waves and what not, are the +1's. There is an equal amount of -1's in the system as a whole, but as beings made of +1's we cannot detect this, or we see it as what we call empty space. Empty space is not really empty space. It is a different kind of energy. But the true nature of all the +1's and -1's is still zero. We come from zero and we in essence are by our true nature still zero. The zero is just taking on different forms.

[Yamah]

jondav: You have said nothing.

[Gem]

In many ways, intellectualizing is flawed by things like 'where did it begin?'And influencec from Genesis 'In the begining'.

The origin of coming in to being may well be the perpetually changing interaction where nothing can be deemed the origin, because interaction itself, although singular as movement, requires a relationship between interactive componants, themselves existant only by virtue of the interaction, creating an inter-reliant process of inter-beingness.

We don't think in terms of solidified or identifiable objects anymore, now we have possibility and probability, because all particles have a wavefunction which can't be located, and in fact fills the universe entirely, but manifest or anhialate somewhere with a higher probability than somewhere else... but then again, that location only exists relatively, and has no 'actual' bearing.

In the end, there is no 'actuality' to the universe, and we can not describe it at all. All we can describe is our interaction with it.

[psychoslice]

Well I don't know how everything got here, but there is no such thing as a mindless pointless dead universe, everything is vibrantly pulsating energy, everything is one, a so called dead planet is also part of our so called living planet, the universe that we live in is all one, all working together in harmony, if any one of those so called dead planets went missing our universe would not be the same, we may not even be here if any of it went mysteriously missing, and this goes with all else that makes the Cosmos the Cosmos.

[Apakhana Akshobhya]

Perhaps people should think in terms of eternity vs time rather than simply limiting their conceptual spectrum within only time itself. Within time, everything has to have a point of origin but in terms of eternity or anythign outside the confines of linear time, you don't need a point of origin because it supercedes or transcends temporal laws.

Somewhere at sometimes in our history somebody understood this and I presume this is how all religions and the like got their ideas that everything comes from somewhere "higher" or transcendental.

[Gem]

Extract : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfOL_oGgRVk

Full Lecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr70QJb2BUk&NR=1

[Miss Hepburn]

Well I don't know how everything got here, but there is no such thing as a mindless pointless dead universe, everything is vibrantly pulsating energy, everything is one, a so called dead planet is also part of our so called living planet, the universe that we live in is all one, all working together in harmony, if any one of those so called dead planets went missing our universe would not be the same, we may not even be here if any of it went mysteriously missing, and this goes with all else that makes the Cosmos the Cosmos.
Yup. Ditto.

[norseman]

There are a few phenomena that go against the statement that you cannot get something from nothing. And the reverse statement that you cannot get nothing from something.

1. One measure boiling water + one measure sugar. Mix and stir. Result one measure sugar solution.
2. even stranger. One measure water + one measure 100% alcohol. Mix and stir. Result 1.8 measures fluid.
3. measure of water, add flake caustic soda = extremely hot solution. Something [energy] from nothing.
4. measure of water, add flake Calcium Chloride = very cold solution. Energy lost.
:D
Real world examples !

[bekins]

Maybe It's possibile that a Universe with zero things can generate something as a double-universe with x things in a side, and -x things on the other side: two opposites with the same value.

You know, there's no difference between the equation 0 = 0 and 1551 = 1551 ;)

Just a theory ^^

[Yamah]

norseman: obviously you know enough about science to know that what you said is complete garbage.

bekins: Actually, antimatter exists and has been observed by scientists! They are naturally produced in high-energy environments, such as cosmic rays or solar flares. Though they only exist for a few moments before nullifying themselves through contact with regular matter, it is now proven that it can exist in our universe! Scientists have also been able to produce antimatter particles artificially in controlled environments since the 1950's, but only in small quantities for brief periods of time.

So in short: 0 = 1-1 is an actual living formula which exists and has been proven possible.

The question remains, however, was that how our universe was created? And if so, where are all the -1's?

[bekins]

Perhaps we can find +1 and -1 in everything..good & evil, gain and loss, matter and antimatter etc.
What's the SUPREME +1 and -1? Oh, probably they are two enormous opposite living beings or something like that, who knows ;)
I think that all is generated by a simple concept that became many-sided, and ever more complex in his manifestations, like a pyramid ;)

[norseman]

"norseman: obviously you know enough about science to know that what you said is complete garbage"

:D

[moke64916]

My theory is that nothing i.e. us, could be created from a mindless pointless ,dead universe,you dont get anything from nothing,the chance of that happening ,is like saying that a bunch of monkeys will eventually type the complete works of Shakespere,with quite a few noughts added on against this supposition,My apologies to any primates reading this.
Nothing became into something because of the 11th dimension. Where we are in a big area of multiple-verses. Our universe collided with another on the 11th dimension and created what we have today. Some-thing cannot come from nothing. There is a logical explanation for the big bang, we just haven't found it yet.

[Luckymadon]

Anyone here have a cell phone? Watch satellite television? Listen to am/fm/satellite/xm radio? Surf the internet? Anyone here have facebook?...ok bad example...but my point is, without that which we cannot either physically see, hear, smell, taste or touch, none of the above instruments would play. They would all be boxes of useless ****! It is the NO-thing, that is obviously SOME-thing that improves the quality of our lives. Some things CAN be created from nothing. We utilize them every day.

[mattie]

duplicate.......

[mattie]

∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ !!!

[Humm]

Well said Mattie! :smile:

[sound]

My theory is that nothing i.e. us, could be created from a mindless pointless ,dead universe,you dont get anything from nothing,the chance of that happening ,is like saying that a bunch of monkeys will eventually type the complete works of Shakespere,with quite a few noughts added on against this supposition,My apologies to any primates reading this.


lol the brush stroke is highlighted on a blank canvas ...

[BlueSky]

Speaking about nothing, not in any spiritual sense but just about it itself.
Nothing can be potentially something.
For example, when you turn off your light switch, the light is off, the current is not flowing, it lays waiting for a path that returns it to itself (ground).
Turning the light on unleashes what seems like nothing.
Nothing is the potential of anything and in my opinion it is awareness that provides the path.

[hybrid]

I can conceive of something coming from nothing. But nothing is not really nothing. It is zero. Zero exists.

your making something out of nothing.

We come from zero and we in essence are by our true nature still zero. The zero is just taking on different forms.

your making nothing out of something.

[Gem]

it's just that formal thought has limitation... so there's no something or nothing.

[Humm]

it's just that formal thought has limitation... so there's no something or nothing.

...Agreed...

[hybrid]

what is a formal thought?

[Gem]

what is a formal thought?

objects...

[BlueSky]

Are you saying that there are no beginnings and endings Gem so therefore there is no something or nothings? Everything is always in transition.
I think that is what you are saying.......if not...........then I'll say it........but you inspired me........lol

[hybrid]

objects... objects are somethings and not nothings
and limitations are what make them ponderable

[BlueSky]

Objects change constantly. At what point are they something? When were they ever nothing?

We change constantly. At what point are we something? When were we ever nothing?

[hybrid]

Objects change constantly. At what point are they something? When were they ever nothing?

We change constantly. At what point are we something? When were we ever nothing?

something becomes nothing (take note.. nothing only to us) when the somthing went beyond the scope of our sense perception and the scope of our instruments we use to magnify our sense perception.

[BlueSky]

something becomes nothing (take note.. nothing only to us) when the somthing went beyond the scope of our sense perception and the scope of our instruments we use to magnify our sense perception.

So you are saying that a tree falling in the forest with no one around makes no noise?

That could be.......but intuitively I think our perception doesn't limit what IS once it is beyond our perception, but I don't know. :smile:

[Gem]

objects are somethings and not nothings
and limitations are what make them ponderable

They can't retain a form so can never anything particular, so we say they are 'something', but not what they are.

It's the same with nothing... impossible to say 'what' nothing is.

[hybrid]

So you are saying that a tree falling in the forest with no one around makes no noise? no. i am saying invisible is not non existence.

That could be.......but intuitively I think our perception doesn't limit what IS once it is beyond our perception,. :smile:
yes, and in a way it's definitely not nothing.

but I don't know

we can deduce, can't we? ;-)

[BlueSky]

we can deduce, can't wei? ;-) Hybrid

We can but for me it just seems to take the fun out of everything....lol

[hybrid]

They can't retain a form so can never anything particular, so we say they are 'something', but not what they are.

It's the same with nothing... impossible to say 'what' nothing is.

if it doesn't exists it's nothing. and there is no such thing. existence is always something and cant be nothing.

[Luckymadon]

∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ ∞ !!!

:hug: :hug3:

[1being]

i remember nothing. i can tell ya what i know and remember.

in nothing, there is thought. a memory is the trigger that causes the big bang explosion. the explosion is the compression of "love" energy. love is compressed (omg) by extreme suffering; hatred, violence, agony, torture, torment, despair, loathing, disgust ... the WHOLE bit of it.

anyway, so love gets compressed by all the "evil" hell ****. the memory is of my daughter. when i remember her, BANG.

there's a small unit of "time" when i sense the extreme urgency to see her and hold her.

what use is it for you to know this? it's of NO USE TO ME to know it.

nothing is real
nothing exists
nothing is something
and it exists

to the best of my knowledge and understanding, i have lived as a human being MORE THAN ONCE, i remember existing *without a body* and i have first person perspective of nothingness itself.

[Gem]

if it doesn't exists it's nothing. and there is no such thing. existence is always something and cant be nothing.

I'm just saying form is limited, relationship doesn't end because of formal limitation, so there can be two or one or none as a simultaneity... it's not as though any of these mentally seperated states exist at all... it's just an expression of an inevitable constant.

It's hard to accept the universe rests on a geometrical function, but considering it may well be a function if intelligence, it rests on the same principles as the mind, or, since it is mindfully perceived, it might as well be.

[hybrid]

if it is the mind that knows nothing, then nothing is just an exclusion from knowledge and not really nothing but only a concept.

as the wise used to say, zero is not a number, it's a concept, not a quantity but a quality

[sound]

No thing is as existent as a/one thing or many things... in that sense we all know no thing ... the space in between ... or are you talking about something else lol ...

[Gem]

if it is the mind that knows nothing, then nothing is just an exclusion from knowledge and not really nothing but only a concept.

as the wise used to say, zero is not a number, it's a concept, not a quantity but a quality

I'm sure I'm saying something of the sort, but only expressing the limitation of form.

[hybrid]

I'm sure I'm saying something of the sort, but only expressing the limitation of form.

what's the limitation of form got to do with our perceived nothingness.

[hybrid]

No thing is as existent as a/one thing or many things... in that sense we all know no thing ... the space in between ... or are you talking about something else lol ...
yeah something like that. lols

[Time]

My theory is that nothing i.e. us, could be created from a mindless pointless ,dead universe,you dont get anything from nothing,the chance of that happening ,is like saying that a bunch of monkeys will eventually type the complete works of Shakespere,with quite a few noughts added on against this supposition,My apologies to any primates reading this.


LOL

Well, if there is one thing that simple observation can prove, is that nothing never "never" exsisted. Law of thermodynamics " energy cannot be created, only change form", proves this... So does observing nature.

Tell me ONE thing that is wasted in an ecosystem.... You cant because its alwasy broken down to the msot basic elements so its used again, and again, and again. That goes for rocks, trees, air water and all animals. This also goes for EVERYTHING in out universe. It all gets recycled again, and again, and again.....

Now keep that in mind, when you see this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td0vNPf6EZE

As above so below right?......

ok... I hope your following me here LOL..

So keeping that in mind, the pattern always repeats itself, so nothing at one point, could not have not exsisted, and that everything in some way shape or form has ALWAYS exsisted. I belive this universe was created by the destruction of another (like how we die to feed other live, and create more life on the planet).

[Limitedbythought]

We are Being Human (at present) and therefore our perceptions are limited thus our understandings, beliefs, sciences and emotions are based on incomplete (by a long way) information. I tend to think (not my most reliable function) that parodoxes are the norm, and that all possibilities exist...if only I could hold 2 contridictory thoughts harmoniously..instead of having to choose 1 to maintain sanity.

I cannot recall anything prior to this existence, have I always existed or was there NOTHING before this.

[Time]

We are Being Human (at present) and therefore our perceptions are limited thus our understandings, beliefs, sciences and emotions are based on incomplete (by a long way) information. I tend to think (not my most reliable function) that parodoxes are the norm, and that all possibilities exist...if only I could hold 2 contridictory thoughts harmoniously..instead of having to choose 1 to maintain sanity.

I cannot recall anything prior to this existence, have I always existed or was there NOTHING before this.


You exsisted as a molicule in your father and mother, that ended up becomming the ova and sperm that made you.

Those molicules came from something they ate, which too it from the soil, which was put there by a dead animal, that ate grass, that grew from those same molicules.....

It never ends..... So YOU as you are only exsisted when you were born, but every single bit of yoru being has been around in one way shape or form since the big bang

[Gem]

what's the limitation of form got to do with our perceived nothingness.

behind every particular thought there is a general thought, which is the `I', that is yourself. Let us call this `I' the first thought.

Ramana

(friggin computer lost what I said, so I quoted this instead)

[hybrid]

and the annihilation of I is the beginning of nothingness for it.

[1being]

and the annihilation of I is the beginning of nothingness for it.

annihilation of I.

is that anything like ripping a woman apart and separating all three of her kids from each other? like, tearing apart an entire family (regardless of "reason")?

could that be annihilation if I?

i read that the end of the universe begins when the tenth gate is opened (the tenth gate is the cervix).

if all things come from nothing... and in all things, life continually forms, shapes, evolves and breaks down ... 7 billion people sure seems like the tenth gate is WIDE OPEN.

[Limitedbythought]

You exsisted as a molicule in your father and mother, that ended up becomming the ova and sperm that made you.

Those molicules came from something they ate, which too it from the soil, which was put there by a dead animal, that ate grass, that grew from those same molicules.....

It never ends..... So YOU as you are only exsisted when you were born, but every single bit of yoru being has been around in one way shape or form since the big bang

Hey TIME yeah somewhat agree "we have all been here before" in what ever form? and everything has always existed...in what ever form...before i existed as a molecule in my father/mother etc the thought or feeling that my father/mother had prior to matter was surely a precursor for the re moulding of the material that is now me?..so is solid a secondary reaction..hey what am i going on about energy is just that...energy, though prior to "THE BIG BANG" was there thought or an idea to bring matter into being?

[1being]

re moulding of the material that is now me?..so is solid a secondary reaction..hey what am i going on about energy is just that...energy, though prior to "THE BIG BANG" was there thought or an idea to bring matter into being?

yes, there was thought and there was also MEMORY.

memory is eternal, life is eternal (past life memory / reincarnation is evidence of eternal life).

[moke64916]

My theory is that nothing i.e. us, could be created from a mindless pointless ,dead universe,you dont get anything from nothing,the chance of that happening ,is like saying that a bunch of monkeys will eventually type the complete works of Shakespere,with quite a few noughts added on against this supposition,My apologies to any primates reading this.
We would not know what nothing is unless there was something to recognize what nothing is.

[Limitedbythought]

We would not know what nothing is unless there was something to recognize what nothing is.
YES...and as I am now something therefore at some point I was nothing...so nothing exists! ha thats quiet funny, those bloody parodoxes

[1being]

YES...and as I am now something therefore at some point I was nothing...so nothing exists! ha thats quiet funny, those bloody parodoxes

nothing is basically a temporary state, a temporary place (tempor / temple). it's like a "holding" place. in that nothingness, there *is* ... and what there is, is thought & memory. i remember it VERY well. i remember talking with people in that "place", "state" ... which means, if i can (and i do) remember it, then i cannot be the only one. it's just that i'm more "awakened" in my memory recollections. i can even recall one specific conversation and i can remember the "points" of other minds / voices. there is no form ... there are no bodies (physical or celestial ... and THAT is basically what constitutes "nothing" ... the LACK of physicality (and light)).

[Gem]

YES...and as I am now something therefore at some point I was nothing...so nothing exists! ha thats quiet funny, those bloody parodoxes

it's just that there is no geometrical way of seperating two things because dual comparison does not make definition possible, so nothing can't exist nor can one thing or two things, but in geometrical terms it's an inevitable function.

[moke64916]

YES...and as I am now something therefore at some point I was nothing...so nothing exists! ha thats quiet funny, those bloody parodoxes
I'm saying that nothing existed before our Universe came into being. I am saying that it took something to create nothing to something in our Universe. Nothing does not exist in our Universe right now. A matter of fact, we cannot think of what nothing looks like. You could imagine all black or all white, but that is something. We cannot understand or get a mental image of what nothing looks like.

[hybrid]

I'm saying that nothing existed before our Universe came into being. I am saying that it took something to create nothing to something in our Universe. Nothing does not exist in our Universe right now. A matter of fact, we cannot think of what nothing looks like. You could imagine all black or all white, but that is something. We cannot understand or get a mental image of what nothing looks like.
or maybe it's much simple and einstein is right all along...

this is a steady-state universe

[Gem]

or maybe it's much simple and einstein is right all along...

this is a steady-state universe

I didn't know Einstein was into a steady state. I didn't know he was a 'big banger' either... cool hair though!

[hybrid]

I didn't know Einstein was into a steady state. I didn't know he was a 'big banger' either... cool hair though!

he was before he said that cosmological constant was his biggest blunder.

[1being]

or maybe it's much simple and einstein is right all along...

this is a steady-state universe

steady in that it's always expanding?
steady in that it's violent?

tenth gate open = bye bye universe (hindu)

god laughs at human science

[hybrid]

steady in that it's always expanding?
steady in that it's violent?

tenth gate open = bye bye universe (hindu)

god laughs at human science
steady as in no big bang.
i did not come from nothing and it's always there

[1being]

steady as in no big bang.
i did not come from nothing and it's always there

there's no such thing as "no big bang" or else we would not be discussing it. we know what it is, people talk about it all the time. it can be described. people write books about it.

yes, there is a "big bang". no doubt about it.

[NightSpirit]

there's no such thing as "no big bang" or else we would not be discussing it. we know what it is, people talk about it all the time. it can be described. people write books about it.

yes, there is a "big bang". no doubt about it.

Is that like there is a God 1being? Just curious.

[1being]

Is that like there is a God 1being? Just curious.

maybe.

to me, god is a word (in at least that much).

people say all sorts of things about what god is / isn't. i heard about some "flying spaghetti monster"??? stupidity, in my opinion. but then people carry on about "unicorn" and so i tell them what a unicorn is, but they'd rather "believe" in the unicorn than LEARN (and change)! holding on to this "unicorn" argument when information is available that will help them to further their ideas, concepts and understanding... i just can't be bothered with it anymore.

god, intelligent design. humans and their fricken egos. lol thinking that "science" is the grand authority of all of everything. tsk, tsk, smh.

CONscience ... and conscientiousness.

science is missing something. con means "with".

[NightSpirit]

maybe.

to me, god is a word (in at least that much).

people say all sorts of things about what god is / isn't. i heard about some "flying spaghetti monster"??? stupidity, in my opinion. but then people carry on about "unicorn" and so i tell them what a unicorn is, but they'd rather "believe" in the unicorn than LEARN (and change)! holding on to this "unicorn" argument when information is available that will help them to further their ideas, concepts and understanding... i just can't be bothered with it anymore.

god, intelligent design. humans and their fricken egos. lol thinking that "science" is the grand authority of all of everything. tsk, tsk, smh.

CONscience ... and conscientiousness.

science is missing something. con means "with".

I only asked about likening the big bang and god :D

[1being]

I only asked about likening the big bang and god :D

i know you did. and i answered ya:

maybe.

[NightSpirit]

i know you did. and i answered ya:

maybe.

okay..umm..does that all mean you also believe in god?

[1being]

okay..umm..does that all mean you also believe in god?

the further you get in understanding, the more you know that "believe" becomes illogical.

god IS. that statement indicates KNOWLEDGE.

a thinker who doesn't know will start to "get at it":

who
what
where
when
how
why
if
then
so

if i said i believe i'd be lying; it's not belief.
if i said i do not believe, that would inaccurate; it would be thought of as a denial of god.

i do not deny god.

god IS. people either understand it or they don't.

[NightSpirit]

Im just testing you 1being. You were so certain about the big bang so i thought i'd ask away to see if you also liken god the same.

Personally, I dont hold either because to me there is all potential in this infinity and to single out anything as this or that, I feel only further assists in separating me from being part of that. :smile:

[1being]

Im just testing you 1being. You were so certain about the big bang so i thought i'd ask away to see if you also liken god the same.

Personally, I dont hold either because to me there is all potential in this infinity and to single out anything as this or that, I feel only further assists in separating me from being part of that. :smile:

you may ask me whatever you like, no need to defend yourself unless you're intentionally and knowingly attempting to bring harm (which i don't think you are).

"all potential" ... okay, but you still can only ever be that which is.

consider it this way:

mars is not venus
venus is not the sun
the sun is not the moon
the moon is not the earth

and so on and so on.

those things are in their full, matured form. they aren't going to change. they're fully formed (manifest).

what does "all potential" even mean?

[NightSpirit]

you may ask me whatever you like, no need to defend yourself unless you're intentionally and knowingly attempting to bring harm (which i don't think you are).

"all potential" ... okay, but you still can only ever be that which is.

consider it this way:

mars is not venus
venus is not the sun
the sun is not the moon
the moon is not the earth

and so on and so on.

those things are in their full, matured form. they aren't going to change. they're fully formed (manifest).

what does "all potential" even mean?

There is never harm in innocent intent :smile:

All potential to me is the foundation of all energy..be it manifest or not. Like dipping from an endless well of water.

[1being]

There is never harm in innocent intent :smile:

All potential to me is the foundation of all energy..be it manifest or not. Like dipping from an endless well of water.

every dream has a foundation.

all potential, from a god perspective (god, thought to be "all powerful")

is still only ever going to create all of what you see & already know

universe, formations.

FOUNDATION.

we can soar and fly. even a bird does not soar and fly for all of ever and even fish can stand still.

[NightSpirit]

every dream has a foundation.

all potential, from a god perspective (god, thought to be "all powerful")

is still only ever going to create all of what you see & already know

universe, formations.

FOUNDATION.

we can soar and fly. even a bird does not soar and fly for all of ever and even fish can stand still.

But where does the dream come from?

[1being]

But where does the dream come from?

REALM!

dream realm
real realm

some sort of inner dimension that becomes externalized (potentially).

edit: consciousness (without limbs) wanted to reach out and touch. it didn't have limbs, though. so limbs were created, to facilitate the desire to TOUCH.

[NightSpirit]

I think we're on the same page 1being...just using different words :smile:

[1being]

I think we're on the same page 1being...just using different words :smile:

mmhmm.

big bang is still real though, i don't care what anyone says. i was there, i remember it. lol

[NightSpirit]

mmhmm.

big bang is still real though, i don't care what anyone says. i was there, i remember it. lol

fair enough! :D

[Gem]

he was before he said that cosmological constant was his biggest blunder.

He had to eat those words.

[Gem]

Big bang theory never claimed a 'beginning' anyway.

[Time]

Big bang theory never claimed a 'beginning' anyway.


IF anything, just the beginning of this universe.but that doesnt mean it was created form nothing. Think of thermodynamics. Energy/matter cannot be created, or destroyed, just change form. This suggests that everything that is in exsistance, has always been , in one way, shape or form.

My personal take on it, is that the cycles on the planet, and solar systems reflec the creation/destructiuon of the universe. Basically, it destroys itself, and creates it self again, and again, in one giant cycle, that is 100% obervable in life, the planet and the solar system.

[Bluegreen]

There is a time this universe is manifested; there is a time that it withdraws in the Absolute and lies dormant until it is time to reappear. The universe "reincarnates" and is build up from its predecessors much like we do. Hindus call it the Days and Nights of Brahma.

Things like this always remind me of the Hermetic (Trismegistus's) law "as above so below" which, logically, must also hold reversed: "as below so above." What we see, know, from our lives here can be applied to/can explain higher realms.

This is only my theory.

[Time]

There is a time this universe is manifested; there is a time that it withdraws in the Absolute and lies dormant until it is time to reappear. The universe "reincarnates" and is build up from its predecessors much like we do. Hindus call it the Days and Nights of Brahma.

Things like this always remind me of the Hermetic (Trismegistus's) law "as above so below" which, logically, must also hold reversed: "as below so above." What we see, know, from our lives here can be applied to/can explain higher realms.

This is only my theory.

In other words

The mendelbrot set

[Bluegreen]

In other words

The mendelbrot set

Sure. Like fractals. Thanks, Time, for pointing that out. I never saw the connection. There have been descriptions of the universe being one big fractal. It appeared that way to Mellon Thomas Benedict in his NDE.

[moke64916]

IF anything, just the beginning of this universe.but that doesnt mean it was created form nothing. Think of thermodynamics. Energy/matter cannot be created, or destroyed, just change form. This suggests that everything that is in exsistance, has always been , in one way, shape or form.

My personal take on it, is that the cycles on the planet, and solar systems reflec the creation/destructiuon of the universe. Basically, it destroys itself, and creates it self again, and again, in one giant cycle, that is 100% obervable in life, the planet and the solar system.
I agree with you entirely.

[Time]

Sure. Like fractals. Thanks, Time, for pointing that out. I never saw the connection. There have been descriptions of the universe being one big fractal. It appeared that way to Mellon Thomas Benedict in his NDE.


I think the mendalbrot set is THE fractal though, I think it came from a equasion explaining the universe, and BAM, you get that ever repeating never ending as above so below sort of thing..

[hybrid]

IF anything, just the beginning of this universe.but that doesnt mean it was created form nothing. Think of thermodynamics. Energy/matter cannot be created, or destroyed, just change form. This suggests that everything that is in exsistance, has always been , in one way, shape or form.


this is easy to imagine if space and time is absolute and matter are just created and destroyed.

wierd thing about big bang is that it is space and time that was being created in the first place, then matter. these things are considered as what constitute everything. so it's hard to think what is prior to the big bang, so people called it nothing

[Eudaimonist]

you dont get anything from nothing.

Agreed. Nothing comes from nothing. I figure that there was some very simple existence -- a "cosmic egg" -- that changed until it became the universe we see today.


eudaimonia,

Mark

[1being]

Agreed. Nothing comes from nothing. I figure that there was some very simple existence -- a "cosmic egg" -- that changed until it became the universe we see today.


eudaimonia,

Mark

everything comes from nothing.

all comes from nothing
all returns to nothing

just like Never is Forever.