Attention mechanics

[din]

the power of now scientifically explained;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcCkUDbrZqA

[Lazarus72]

Yeah I liked it, it all kinda made sense. The chalk, driving and baseball analogies reminded me of a Brazilian soccer player aptly named Socrates I saw talking about his success in footy. He said 'players who run don't think and players who think don't run', (with the ball he meant) same sort of thing I guess.

I liked the Buddhist references, concise and simple, and the concentration on breath technique for focusing into the present moment is comparable with basic meditation techniques.

My only issue is that perhaps present moment awareness over self-centredness doesn't necessarily provide the happiness the guy was looking for. I understand the feelings of elation and exaltation that may accompany real present moment awareness, but wonder if mere contentedness might be ... more balanced... more present.

More peaceful.


Fine line between that and boring though, hehe. :smile:

[SerquetAsa]

I have always wondered why things like this need to be explained and researched...

[Gem]

I think it's a dressed up Buddhist message.

[SerquetAsa]

I think it's a dressed up Buddhist message.

For lack any better reasoning, I think you're right haha

[din]

Yeah I liked it, it all kinda made sense. The chalk, driving and baseball analogies reminded me of a Brazilian soccer player aptly named Socrates I saw talking about his success in footy. He said 'players who run don't think and players who think don't run', (with the ball he meant) same sort of thing I guess.

I liked the Buddhist references, concise and simple, and the concentration on breath technique for focusing into the present moment is comparable with basic meditation techniques.

My only issue is that perhaps present moment awareness over self-centredness doesn't necessarily provide the happiness the guy was looking for. I understand the feelings of elation and exaltation that may accompany real present moment awareness, but wonder if mere contentedness might be ... more balanced... more present.

More peaceful.


Fine line between that and boring though, hehe. :smile:


go there and find out for yourself

this is not about discussing present moment awareness

it's about living it

[din]

I have always wondered why things like this need to be explained and researched...
you guys sound so smug

i was smug too once,

thought i knew a lot

luckily all my beliefs were so heavy, they crumbled under their own weight

what if you knew nothing whatsoever?

what if you lived as total innocence

simple presence...

[Lazarus72]

Only to say that no smugness was intended.

[din]

Only to say that no smugness was intended.

no, no, no

the smugness has nothing to do with these posts

the smugness is us thinking we know something in our life

the smugness is our own self-centered way of seeing and thinking

when we can see that for what it is

then that is freedom from it

[andrew g]

no, no, no

the smugness has nothing to do with these posts

the smugness is us thinking we know something in our life

the smugness is our own self-centered way of seeing and thinking

when we can see that for what it is

then that is freedom from it

If only the death of smugness required seeing our own self centered way of seeing and thinking. Although this 'seeing' might be helpful it is by no means the end of the story (or the smugness).

I think it is possible for us to be just as smug in our so called 'enlightened' seeings as it is in our 'unenlightened' seeings. Even 'I know nothing' can be turned into smugness.

I like the nature of your aspiration din, but I think your aspirations are beyond what is currently possible. Like it or not, we cant help but be a bit smug sometimes (did I say that very smugly?)

[Lazarus72]

Ok sorry Din, I misinterpreted.

There's still a temptation to make a reference to the adage, 'if we knew that we knew nothing then at least we would know something'.....but I'll take it in the spirit it's intended.

I'm with Andrew though, it's a nice aspiration but with regard to present moment awareness even one word, one thought is too much. I don't think it's as simple as detachment from beliefs and meaning as I expect these things to be intrinsic to interaction itself and certainly modern world living. I think like it or not we may have to engage in degrees of ignorance in our current form in order to avoid unnecessary suffering.

I accept I could be wrong though.


what if you knew nothing whatsoever?

what if you lived as total innocence

Do you think you operate like this btw? Do you think you've apprehended and integrated it. Coz I think the world would eat you up and you may be sitting in the gutter right now. Sounds romantic. Perhaps Buddhist monks or yogi in medatitive states having meals unobtrusively pushed near them can get to this, but IMO going to bookshops and forums expounding the virtues of non-self centredness and just stating you dont believe what you say or it doesn't necessarily hold as true from one moment to the next probably isn't gonna cut the mustard.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you coming, hehe, and I'm not saying it's not the way forward. Just that it'd be a bumpy ride.

[din]

If only the death of smugness required seeing our own self centered way of seeing and thinking. Although this 'seeing' might be helpful it is by no means the end of the story (or the smugness).

I think it is possible for us to be just as smug in our so called 'enlightened' seeings as it is in our 'unenlightened' seeings. Even 'I know nothing' can be turned into smugness.

I like the nature of your aspiration din, but I think your aspirations are beyond what is currently possible. Like it or not, we cant help but be a bit smug sometimes (did I say that very smugly?)
one thing that fascinates me is that:

any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking

so with regard to your statement above

you have pretty well set up a reality where there's no end to the smugness or the story, or at least it will linger for quite a while

is this true?

it's really amazing when you become aware of your thinking

and you realize you're making it all up as you go along

[din]

Ok sorry Din, I misinterpreted.

There's still a temptation to make a reference to the adage, 'if we knew that we knew nothing then at least we would know something'.....but I'll take it in the spirit it's intended.

I'm with Andrew though, it's a nice aspiration but with regard to present moment awareness even one word, one thought is too much. I don't think it's as simple as detachment from beliefs and meaning as I expect these things to be intrinsic to interaction itself and certainly modern world living. I think like it or not we may have to engage in degrees of ignorance in our current form in order to avoid unnecessary suffering.

I accept I could be wrong though.




Do you think you operate like this btw? Do you think you've apprehended and integrated it. Coz I think the world would eat you up and you may be sitting in the gutter right now. Sounds romantic. Perhaps Buddhist monks or yogi in medatitive states having meals unobtrusively pushed near them can get to this, but IMO going to bookshops and forums expounding the virtues of non-self centredness and just stating you dont believe what you say or it doesn't necessarily hold as true from one moment to the next probably isn't gonna cut the mustard.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you coming, hehe, and I'm not saying it's not the way forward. Just that it'd be a bumpy ride.
the point for me is, there's no one here who would need to apprehend or integrate anything

that is just the story

what is the story appearing in?

what is this presence of awareness that is totally free of any story and just being the space for all thoughts and identification with them to occur

(that isn't true btw, it's just another thought!)

(i have to be careful about what i say because any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking)

i can't claim to be it, to be integrating it, to be apprehending it

what i could say, that comes closest to it, is that all there is is THAT

and then there's the thought or imagination of being a someone who can apprehend or integrate something

there's nothing at all that needs to be done here

everything simply is as it is

and any need to do anything or accomplish something is just as perfect as any other part of it

coming to a complete standstill means letting everything be the way it is

[andrew g]

one thing that fascinates me is that:

any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking

so with regard to your statement above

you have pretty well set up a reality where there's no end to the smugness or the story, or at least it will linger for quite a while

is this true?

it's really amazing when you become aware of your thinking

and you realize you're making it all up as you go along

Yes din, in my reality there is no end to the smugness for a while. In my reality I also cant turn myself into a tree or the sun right now. I also cant teleport and I also cant know exactly what you are thinking and feeling. I also cant be in two places at once, and neither can I click my fingers and solve world hunger. Neither can I put an end to all the wars.

Do you get what Im saying? At some point we have to acknowledge the limitations of this reality, or earth, or dimension if we want to put an end to the majority of our struggling. What I have come to see din is that peace is about keeping one eye inside and one eye outside. What I have also come to see is that this earth is one which is characterized by struggle, seeking, efforting, doing. We cant get away from that totally, even though you would like to. Achieving what you want may be possible in a couple of years, but not yet. A bit of patience is required. What this earth is fundamentally teaching us is infinite patience.

[andrew g]

the point for me is, there's no one here who would need to apprehend or integrate anything

that is just the story

what is the story appearing in?

what is this presence of awareness that is totally free of any story and just being the space for all thoughts and identification with them to occur

(that isn't true btw, it's just another thought!)

(i have to be careful about what i say because any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking)

i can't claim to be it, to be integrating it, to be apprehending it

what i could say, that comes closest to it, is that all there is is THAT

and then there's the thought or imagination of being a someone who can apprehend or integrate something

there's nothing at all that needs to be done here

everything simply is as it is

and any need to do anything or accomplish something is just as perfect as any other part of it

coming to a complete standstill means letting everything be the way it is

''I have to be careful''.

Why? What are you scared will happen if you are not? That you will slip into identification? You already are identifying. Its unavoidable. How about you stop taking yourself so seriously and allow yourself to be as identified with everyone else on the planet...after all....whats the big deal?

[Gem]

Nothing needs to end it'll probably get worse in a couple of years. There is war and smugness, greed, hurt and much unpleasantry... well that's the way it is.

[sound]

no, no, no

the smugness has nothing to do with these posts

[the smugness is] us thinking we know something in our life

[the smugness is] our own self-centered way of seeing and thinking

[when] we can see that for what it is

[then] that is freedom from it
So you know about smugness din lol ... does that make you just as smug as your mates?

[sound]

Also ... is smugness linked to 'what we know? ...' or ... is it more about attitudes and how we express/act surrounding what we know? (in each moment of course lol) ... who knows lol

[andrew g]

I would say smugness is thinking we know something. It cant be avoided though. There we go, there's some more smugness hehe.

Edit...or thinking we are right about something....its the same thing to me.

[Gem]

I would say smugness is thinking we know something. It cant be avoided though. There we go, there's some more smugness hehe.

So we notice a trait of humans and we name it 'smug', who cares?

Din says it's this and it's that but it's just silliness. Everyone knows what 'smug' refers to, it happens like there happens to be grass in your front yard.

[andrew g]

So we notice a trait of humans and we name it 'smug', who cares?

Din says it's this and it's that but it's just silliness. Everyone knows what 'smug' refers to, it happens like there happens to be grass in your front yard.

Well din aspires to transcending smugness, and I can relate to that, and I think its possible. I just dont think its possible right now.

I dont see this earth (and all that comes with that) as the only potential or reality. I resonate with, and am open to the idea that there are other potentials and realities, and if Im wrong, well, who cares? For me, the being open is enough.

[Gem]

Well din aspires to transcending smugness, and I can relate to that, and I think its possible. I just dont think its possible right now.

I dont see this earth (and all that comes with that) as the only potential or reality. I resonate with, and am open to the idea that there are other potentials and realities, and if Im wrong, well, who cares? For me, the being open is enough.

People seem very concerned with trancending stuff don't they?

The promlem with trancendance is it is an imaginary state which may be obtained in the future, and to overcome a limitation (trancend) one has to practice... like a high jumper is jumping 198 cm, to exceed that he has to practice, hone technique, get a little stronger. Without the practice he can only jump lower, with practice he might jump higher.

[andrew g]

People seem very concerned with trancending stuff don't they?

The promlem with trancendance is it is an imaginary state which may be obtained in the future, and to overcome a limitation (trancend) one has to practice... like a high jumper is jumping 198 cm, to exceed that he has to practice, hone technique, get a little stronger. Without the practice he can only jump lower, with practice he might jump higher.

I have no issue with practicing, I think its our nature currently to try, to practice, to effort, to transcend, to achieve, to 'do'. We could try and not practice or effort or transcend but thats doing the same thing! Like an expert and practiced kayaker intuitively navigates the rapids with one eye on the outside and one eye on the inside. I think peace is found by going with our nature both purposefully and consciously. I see no issue with setting goals and getting honest about what we desire and then doing what needs to be done to achieve that.

So if we want to live a happy a life I would say that practicing gratitude and appreciation is a wonderful thing to do. Also practicing compassion and understanding. Practicing seeing the divine in all things. Practicing positivity. Practicing being present. Eventually I think we become an expert at these things. We become an expert in being happy.

Maybe one day our nature will change. If so, by that point we wont even care anyway because our expertise at these above things will be second nature to us.

[andrew g]

Reminds me of something Richard Bandler may have said once. It was something like....why be who you are when you can be someone so much better?