The Ender's Game Series, existence, reincarnation

[nalan]

It's actually nonfiction and can be looked up easily.

The point is that this series relays some deep thinking and very credible ideas about man's, no, not just man's, but every thing's existence. It incorporates God and technology, but so much more.

The first is Ender's Game which, to me, is all about how our lives are massive manipulation games. It really disturbed me and made me wonder just how much do we rely on manipulation? Even now, I manipulate my 2 year old. Am I teaching him to be manipulated?

The second book (Xenocide?) is about further manipulations, tying in choices of nature vs. nurture and an understanding of the fabric of the univers/existence itself. There is, of course, a plot, but the ideas and theories involved are huge. I was totally expecting reincarnation at some point, and it did happen, but not as I had figured.

If anyone has read/is reading these series, I'd love to talk with you about them. I would be on the third book, Children of the Mind, but my stupid Nook exploded yesterday and won't be fixed until Wednesday or Thursday.

Another point: the books I get into are generally written by authors who feel a spiritual connection, as if they are being told the story by the characters themselves. This one feels like that, only that the being he's conversing with is either many or huge. His books, if you notice, may be in order, but they were not written in our time order. As in the dates of book 1 is 1998, book 2 is 2001, book 3 is 996 (no, the dates are incorrect, but the time order is what matters.)

To me, it's like whoever he's communicating with the author is communicating when the time is right in the author's life.

Anyway, I'm hoping to discuss this book with anyone.

[themaster]

I didn't see "enders game" as a manipulation story.. but your right there are aspects of that.. unlike you I didn't put a lot of thought into it..

I like the story's as is.. I think they might be fun to play out as a real experience

[Sammy]

OMG I LOVE THIS SERIES! The ender's side is amazing but my favorite was the shadow side (Bean's perspective). Orson Scott Card also has another realy great series, first book is called seventh son and equaly enthralling.

In response to the thread, we are all conditioned from our peirs. We do nothing but grow from our "current cycle" to the next. Whats important is that you know your cycles have a reason and if your comfertable with it. Other then that were just doing what we can in the meantime.

[Sammy]

I think I know what your getting at Nalan. Ive written and drawn many things that seemed to be of themself and least from me. Ive even considered if all fictional tought is only reality as its happening in another dimension. Who knows?

[nalan]

I didn't see "enders game" as a manipulation story..

But Ender is manipulated through the entire story, and he ultimately commits xenocide, murdering millions. He never wanted to murder. In fact, every time he got into a fight, it was to defend himself...yet those fight opportunities were created/manipulated so the powers-that-be could assess Ender's ability to handle those situations. What did he create for himself? The only time he had a chance to make his own, real decision was when Valentine came to talk with him on his break on Earth...yet even that was manipulation because he chose to return for Valentine's sake. Later, Valentine realized how she was manipulated to manipulate (that sounds funny) Ender, and she was angry. That's part of the reason she became Demosthenes, partially because of Peter, but more because she wanted to manipulate the manipulators.

OMG I LOVE THIS SERIES! The ender's side is amazing but my favorite was the shadow side (Bean's perspective). Orson Scott Card also has another realy great series, first book is called seventh son and equaly enthralling.

I agree! I intend to read all of these books once my stupid Nook has been fixed/replaced.

In response to the thread, we are all conditioned from our peirs. We do nothing but grow from our "current cycle" to the next. Whats important is that you know your cycles have a reason and if your comfertable with it. Other then that were just doing what we can in the meantime.

Don't you find that disturbing? Where is free will? Does it even exist?

I think I know what your getting at Nalan. Ive written and drawn many things that seemed to be of themself and least from me. Ive even considered if all fictional tought is only reality as its happening in another dimension. Who knows?

As a writer (not published, but I love writing), I often feel connected to my subjects, and I believe there have been times the subject is communicating with me to tell his/her story. A good friend of mine has written two huge stories that were completely channelled to her; she grew frustrated often because there were so many voices. As for another dimension, anything is possible.

[Sammy]

Don't you find that disturbing? Where is free will? Does it even exist?



The free-will is in what cycle you choose, and even sometimes a new one made up from others. You cant escape your patterns but we can direct them.

[themaster]

But Ender is manipulated through the entire story, and he ultimately commits xenocide, murdering millions. He never wanted to murder. In fact, every time he got into a fight, it was to defend himself...yet those fight opportunities were created/manipulated so the powers-that-be could assess Ender's ability to handle those situations. What did he create for himself? The only time he had a chance to make his own, real decision was when Valentine came to talk with him on his break on Earth...yet even that was manipulation because he chose to return for Valentine's sake. Later, Valentine realized how she was manipulated to manipulate (that sounds funny) Ender, and she was angry. That's part of the reason she became Demosthenes, partially because of Peter, but more because she wanted to manipulate the manipulators.Manipulations is a illusion, free will is always a choice.. even incarnating into a body that has no free willl (such realities exist) I believe is a choice.. :D

[nalan]

Manipulations is a illusion, free will is always a choice

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you think Ender was manipulated?

[themaster]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Do you think Ender was manipulated?If ender was incarnated in a universe similar to our own.. than yes, he chose.. to allow, to be manipulated.. (when you are manipulated.. that is choice.. it always has been.. manipulation is the negative tinge on the word persuaded which is more neutral positive.. you can also use the word influence)

Even if he wasn't.. the incarnation is choice.. what I'm saying is.. we've all made choices sometimes those choices are unconscious to us..

If I said to you.. you've already made a choice to be a part of "the shift" or evolution.. is that a conscious choice to you or a unconscious one?

Because my understanding is most people (not all) into spirituality and even having a discussion like this have already made that choice.. from a higher perspective..

Let's play a game.. let us say that you are a advisor and player of a game in a higher capacity.. you can see a maze below you a labyrinth.. (if you will) and you and the player (the person going through the maze are connected)

You radio down to the player.. go left (the right path is a pitfall) the player doesn't hear you and goes right.. falls into the pitfall.. and you kind of whack your face in a expression of "doh" :icon_eek: and then get right back on that horse and radio more instructions.. :D

So you the one looking down at the maze (knows all about the maze) but the player knows nothing about the maze.. they don't know why there in the maze.. they don't even know it's a maze! They just wonder around confused.. (and sometimes they don't hear or listen to instructions) cause it's that kind of game..

What I'm saying is.. you are the player! :D

And Ender was a player! :wink:

[nalan]

So you're saying that Ender or anyone, really, chooses their existence before entering it? And therefore by choosing our existence, we are agreeing to the manipulation/influences we endure in that life?

I can agree with that. From my understanding, our lives serve different purposes in our overall growth as spiritual beings, meaning we choose to face particular circumstances. In that explanation, okay, life is more than being manipulated.

[Zeliar791]

So you're saying that Ender or anyone, really, chooses their existence before entering it? And therefore by choosing our existence, we are agreeing to the manipulation/influences we endure in that life?

I can agree with that. From my understanding, our lives serve different purposes in our overall growth as spiritual beings, meaning we choose to face particular circumstances. In that explanation, okay, life is more than being manipulated.

Fate is absolute, and luck is questionable. Luck gives us the illusion of choice within our predetermined pattern.

[themaster]

So you're saying that Ender or anyone, really, chooses their existence before entering it? And therefore by choosing our existence, we are agreeing to the manipulation/influences we endure in that life?Yes and yes.. (ender always had a choice.. he didn't have to play those wargames.. he chose too)

There are experiences you can have on the planet right now.. where your locked up against your will, or kidnapped against your will.. but these are actually choices.. (it is the illusion of lack that we call them.. manipulation, against our will or even wrong) It would be clearer to say while you may have these experiences lined up in vibrational "escrow" prior to incarnating.. another reason why you can get "kidnapped" is because that's part of the rules to the labyrinth.. the allowing of that experience is part of the rules!

Also from my understanding/awareness.. it may be possible to play the character of "Ender" in the way the game was designed.. and then to merge that experience/awareness with your current one.. or even to play the game from your current awareness.. and kind of like "hey, you.. you were written to be the bad guy.. well, forget it I won't be manipulated and take the story in a entirely new direction" :D

[Sammy]

Yes ender was highly manipulated and from every side "including his parents". Even bean had his manipulating of ender. Letting him grow into the knowledge he could do it wasnt going to kill the buggers before they killed them. He had to prove to himself they didnt know the answer before he found what that answer was. They do touch on this subject alot in the later books.

Regardless of how it could of been we do what we have done for the reasons at the time, and would do that again in the same knowledge. As that was the best solution to us with what we knew.

[nalan]

Why must we live in a world of manipulation? Better said, why do I live in a world of manipulation? Do you know how many times I've gotten into trouble for saying things how they are? I got dragged into my boss's office, and she told me that I need to learn how to, "Play the game." BLEAH!

Perhaps this is my life choice. Maybe that's why Ender and his ordeal resonate so strongly with me.

[themaster]

Why must we live in a world of manipulation? Better said, why do I live in a world of manipulation? Do you know how many times I've gotten into trouble for saying things how they are? I got dragged into my boss's office, and she told me that I need to learn how to, "Play the game." BLEAH!

Perhaps this is my life choice. Maybe that's why Ender and his ordeal resonate so strongly with me.It's just a game.. be easy on yourself.. this is the lifetime where we create heaven on earth.. so just have fun, speak your truth.. and ignore those playing the game :D

[nalan]

If I could ignore those playing the game, then I wouldn't interact with 90% of the people I encounter.

[themaster]

If I could ignore those playing the game, then I wouldn't interact with 90% of the people I encounter.Have you ever heard the phrase?

"To be in the world, but not off the world"

[Sammy]

Ender was nescicery for the advancement of humanity, he hated it but he knew he did what he wanted (whether he chose it or not). He deffinately knew the game. Ender was supressed and an outsider the whole time, and he earned his leave of Earth's ****. and whent to his permanent retirement outside of any of that life (not that he escaped it). We all have our place, beleiving you control it will show you how you realy do. You chosoe the path, you dont get to choose the rocks. ;)

[Zeliar791]

Ender was nescicery for the advancement of humanity, he hated it but he knew he did what he wanted (whether he chose it or not). He deffinately knew the game. Ender was supressed and an outsider the whole time, and he earned his leave of Earth's ****. and whent to his permanent retirement outside of any of that life (not that he escaped it). We all have our place, beleiving you control it will show you how you realy do. You chosoe the path, you dont get to choose the rocks. ;)

It seems I have been nothing more then the village idiot. Its not fun having rocks thrown at you from all directions. My path has already been chosen from the beginning.

[Sammy]

It seems I have been nothing more then the village idiot. Its not fun having rocks thrown at you from all directions. My path has already been chosen from the beginning.
I agree its not fun. No one is making you stay however, and this was your choice. Maybe invest in a shield? :wink:

[nalan]

Zeliar, I don't think you're a village idiot.

[Sammy]

Agreed, the idiots are the ones throwin stones. To revise my last post, when I said "no one is making to stay" I was meaning, we stay because its what we know best, with what we have and regardless of what we want.