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Old 23-01-2011, 10:18 PM
Lazarus72 Lazarus72 is offline
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The Hotel Infinity

I've decided to re-post some musings on the concept of infinity, that got wiped in 'the great crash' of twenty ten.


My feelings are infinity fundamentally cannot be accurately conceptualised, fully envisaged or grasped, as rather it appears representative of that in which conceptualisation itself takes place. It's described as having certain qualities including; being endless and beginningness, so eternal in a sense. It tends to conjure images of being vast but could also be thought of as having no dimension at all, perhaps due to the nature of scalar quantification. An analogy would be that it is the canvas on which mathematics takes place, the space, the emptiness of inherent existence. Source. God if you like. It is not really an it at all. It merely Is. God...IS...infinite.

The error appears to be in conceiving it as not inherently existing, combined with the objectification of unit(s).

I should probably add here that I'm no mathematician, I have only the most basic education in a subject in which I did not excel, and frankly cannot even recite the 6 times table. As a child when my father tried to teach me that 1 +1 = 2, I demanded to know why. 'It just is' was the reply, and after some persistence on my behalf it became apparent that such things needed to just be accepted as a matter of convention ..... at that stage anyways. The upshot being, I fast lost interest.

I do enjoy abstract thinking though, and could go a fair way to envisaging why the universe might be described as a 4-dimensional donut in some quarters, hehe.



________________________________




Firstly a brief look at the world of large numbers for some 'scale';

In every day life most people only encounter numbers up to....say, millions... or billions, ...... occasionally trillions maybe. However In the world of numbers these are tiny.


A google - is 1 followed by 100, 0's
Does not sound that big ?..... It is greater than the total amount of atoms in the human body, greater than the number of atoms that make up the Earth, in fact it is greater than all the atoms in the entire observable universe .Yet it is a very, very, very tiny 'large number'

A googleplex - is 1 followed by a google of 0's
This number is so large that there would not be enough room to write it down even if you could fit a 0 on every atom in the entire observable universe as per above. You can see how comparison might start to become difficult here yet this number is still very small.

Graham's number (officially the largest number) - is the upper limit to a solution to a mainly abstract mathematical problem concerning multi-dimensional cubes.
It is as large to a googleplex as a googleplex is to the number 10. In fact it is much bigger than that. It is so large that no-one knows how many digits it has, what number it starts with, or even if there are more 1's than 0's (yes even Graham!!)
It requires a lengthy calculation just to reveal the last number (which incidentally is 7). So Graham's number is a finite number, yet it cannot be fully comprehended.
Incidentally the methods used to make the calculation are now employed to keep track of internet traffic - one of its few practical applications.




........The problem is that it would still take infinitely more calculations to reach infinity.





Infinity has some strange properties; It never comes to an end.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10........
2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16........

The list of even numbers is as long as the list of even plus odd numbers combined even though there appear to be half as many. This is because we are counting, which is matching things up, and all the numbers can be matched......... So 2 infinite lists are the same length even if one appears to contain half as many numbers.



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An analogy - The hotel infinity


Question. If you tried to book into a hotel that had infinitely many rooms, but was fully booked, could you get a room ?
note. You cannot check into the last room because there is no last room, and even if there was, somebody would be in it..... because the hotel is fully booked, lol.

Answer = Yes
Suggest to the manager that he asks the guest from room 1 to move to room 2, then the guest from room 2 to room 3, and so on
Then you could have room 1 and everyone else can also be accommodated because....... 'there is always another room'.
This apparently demonstrates that; infinity plus 1 (or even plus 2 or 3... whatever) = infinity.



Now, imagine that you tried to book into the hotel with infinitely many of your friends.
Could you all get a room ?

Answer. Yes
Suggest to the manager that he asks the guest from room 1 to move to room 2, room 2 to room 4, room 4 to room 8, and so on.
This would free up all the odd numbered rooms for you and your infinite amount of (probably odd) friends.
This apparently demonstrates that infinity plus infinity = infinity



Ok new question. Do the same rules apply when you divide or subtract from infinity ?

Answer = No
If all the guests left then infinity minus infinity = 0
However,
If all the guests left but you stayed on then infinity minus infinity = 1




.......So there appears to be a discrepancy.



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Infinity is like a landscape where you do maths. It's paradoxical properties make some mathematicians uncomfortable. They say that infinity is abstract nonsense that does not exist, that there is a largest number that to which if you add 1, then goes back to 0.

I don't resonate with that idea personally, I think numbers are infinite because you can always add 1, so infinity is shown to be part of an abstract reality which may be additionally the base of consciousness and ultimately awareness. The aware space or the awareness that is aware of itself.
If we go on to consider an infinite 'universe' things become truly bizarre, but I've rambled for long enough.


Thanks for listening.
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Old 24-01-2011, 01:45 AM
Sammy Sammy is offline
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I love the post and thanks for sharing it! I have always enjoyed playing with the concept of numbers. One of my favorite things to encounter was "what can you add to itself even infinately, but never have it change in value?" Answer: "Zero"
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Old 24-01-2011, 03:03 AM
ROM ROM is offline
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Indeed. How can our brains, which are confined to space and time, comprehend the infinite or the eternal, which exists outside of space and time?
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Old 24-01-2011, 03:24 AM
hybrid hybrid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus72
It tends to conjure images of being vast but could also be thought of as having no dimension at all, perhaps due to the nature of scalar quantification.

i love anyone who understands or think scalar.

Quote:
I don't resonate with that idea personally, I think numbers are infinite because you can always add 1, so infinity is shown to be part of an abstract reality which may be additionally the base of consciousness and ultimately awareness. The aware space or the awareness that is aware of itself.
If we go on to consider an infinite 'universe' things become truly bizarre, but I've rambled for long enough.


Thanks for listening.

yes, awareness has a lot to do with infinity

.
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Old 24-01-2011, 04:06 AM
Sammy Sammy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybrid
i love anyone who understands or think scalar.



yes, awareness has a lot to do with infinity

.
Our friend nventr has made a model of awareness :) http://www.jesuswedding.com/the-blueprint.html
I also have made a model of our consciousness (or a way to utilize it) in connection with awareness.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9747
When seeing "the blueprint" it seemed very eternity like. One of us on either side of the same object of focus with things comming to us and comming from us in response. Perhaps this was where the symbols had been originated for its design?
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Old 24-01-2011, 05:14 AM
Silver Silver is offline
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The only way for ME to think 'scalar' is to get drUnk.
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Old 24-01-2011, 05:36 AM
hybrid hybrid is offline
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i love you SG just the same hahahaha
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Old 24-01-2011, 05:48 AM
Deusdrum Deusdrum is offline
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My friend and i had an argument in pre-school.. I said a million was the highest number, but he disagreed, citing a billion as the biggest number. I countered by pointing out there was no such thing as a billion, which he disagreed with, in turn. We never did resolve our differences (though i saw him just before Christmas this year, and luckily, our former dispute never came up.

Lazarus72 - Graham's number eh? What an interesting post. It is especially intriguing to me that the highest number ends with a 7.. and that it actually has a practical explanation, which makes it much more valid of a concept to me, a highest number, more mysterious and interesting also.
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What are the stars, but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing? - Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow
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Old 24-01-2011, 06:54 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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It is explained in a way using fractal geometry where dimensions are fractional for example the serpinski triangle is infinite (in scale) but calculated to be 1.585D




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Old 24-01-2011, 11:42 AM
Dragonfly1 Dragonfly1 is offline
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Wow!.............................................. ....
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A Divine Teacher of Light (mine for now) drawn by the most fabulous Evaah.
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