What does it mean to love? To love ....

Originally Posted by 3dnow

Whatever works for you.. I personally try to avoid fake love trap..

Well you keep avoiding fake love traps and I'll keep loving.
Nothing has changed by what you have stated.

Originally Posted by 3dnow

Don't call it love, then there is no problem. There is nothing worse than confusion..

I accept that it is not love. The guy hates me. Now letting resistance to this fact...

Where has anyone said that a guy hating me, i think is actually loving me?
I know i haven't said it, i can't Jules has said it.
So far, your're the only one that has said it.

Originally Posted by 3dnow

They hate you more if you think they love you while they are hating you like AC is saying.

If this is the case, that you're the only one who has said it, then the confusion is from your interpretation of what i said.

Originally Posted by Gem

The spiritual love parade... haven't you noticed it?

I have no way of knowing my perception is the same as yours.
Please define this love parade you see.

AC I'm gonna hug you ((((((((( AC)))))))))))

What a wonderful, inspiring narrative and expression of love you've shown. Not only to your mum but also other's on here.

For her to be able to feel safe and secure enough to be her self is awesome. One thing I will say to you though and this is by no means a criticism try to get her to understand she's no reason to be ashamed. It's part and parcel of her healing - to accept, understand and forgive herself. (hope that makes sense).

What you've been on is an amazing journey and not only have you helped mum you've also been healing self at the same time.

Well done you xx

Originally Posted by Silvergirl

This may be digging up old stuff (not that old, though), but it's crystal clear that we've split into ever-widening camps and that is so incredibly sad. We are all now operating like enemies still.......we are braced to (sometimes) vehemently object to whatever the 'other' camp may say, we're on a hair trigger ~ a knee-jerk reaction at-the-ready to paint the other person's opinions as 'off' or 'wrong' or whatever. We read each other's opinions with poo colored glasses.



Darlings and loved ones ~ correct me if I'm wrong.

~laughs~ I've finally had time to go to the next post after God-Like's one.
Not that I'm complaining, it's just i'm trying to read all the pages i've missed and I've just spend a few hours joyfully hanging out with others related to that one post.

To your post SG, that's what i see.
Though i don't see it as digging up old stuff.
It's bring ing current stuff to light in order to discuss and hoipefully resolve.
And perhaps not split into ever widening camps, but the gap has become more obvious.

Not everyone though. Although there is still defense and prosecuting type posts, there are also more productive ones.

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

Coming to tazzie, i intuitively knew this was the next path of my journey.
It was a tough decision to leave my kids behind, even though they have their own self sufficient lives, we all did not like the prospect of being apart.

Coming down here to take care of my eldery mum, i did not know what I was getting into, only i knew i chose to do so from love.

Mum, and i say this as fact and not as criticism, she is extrremely messed up.
I know because i too was extremely messed up.
Now that I am free and healed, I am the perfect candidate to help her.
What i id not have knowledge of was how messed us she is. Visiting a few times in the last 20 years is not the same as 12 months of living together.

But, taking care of her is part of my love journey.
I could judge her for multiple offences every day, tell her off, get upset, be frustrated, demand she change etc, etc, etc.
This would simply cause her to either defend, argue or retreat from me.
But when I love her and accept her current state, this results in her willingly changing the things she knows and wants to change.
She is not condemned for her "bad" behavior, thus allowing her to sort herself out.

By loving her, I create safe environment for her to accept and heal her problems.
She does not self condemn. It's safe for her to address these issues.
It's a long road, it's been 12 months and there has been only a couple of tiny things healed.

Also, I openly tell her, because of what she knows of herself, that she feels ashamed whenever she is behaving "badly",
i tell her i appreciate it when she expresses herself openly and honestly.
She can vent and accuse and complain and blame and call me all manner of things I cannot repeat here, I will not reject her or hate her when she does.

This gives her immense freedom to be herself and release the pressure of her self condemnation.
I was not aware taking care of mum would be a powerful schooling of love for me.
My brother and his friend bet i would only last two weeks with her because she is so hard to live with.
And I did go through a dark phase of struggling to interact lovingly with her.

But such is life. A continuous learning\changing\transformation process.
I'm awed at how wonderful it is to love others.

I'm with Jue - awesome story of putting your heart where your mouth is.

I offer my deepest respect for your efforts.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

I have no way of knowing my perception is the same as yours.
Please define this love parade you see.

It's like a parade to overtly say 'look how loving I am'. It's recognizable by posts which continually draw attention to 'me' and how this I do is loving and that I do is loving.

The truth of it isn't so cozy or self comforting, because hearts are designed to be broken, and anyone who endured that sees much deeper implications of love and human nature.

Originally Posted by Jules

AC I'm gonna hug you ((((((((( AC)))))))))))

What a wonderful, inspiring narrative and expression of love you've shown. Not only to your mum but also other's on here.

For her to be able to feel safe and secure enough to be her self is awesome. One thing I will say to you though and this is by no means a criticism try to get her to understand she's no reason to be ashamed. It's part and parcel of her healing - to accept, understand and forgive herself. (hope that makes sense).

What you've been on is an amazing journey and not only have you helped mum you've also been healing self at the same time.

Well done you xx

~smiles~ thanks Jules. Deeply felt.
I like your insight\observation about shame.

Part of my dark season was me going through my own shame healing.
I've recently broken through a lifetime of shame, guided by a wonderful book ( spoken of in the what books are you reading thread)
By page 30 I already consider myself healed of 40+ years of it. I heal quick once I get the understanding.

As I keep reading, I notice most if not all of my mum's issues are founded on shame.
I am slowly introducing this topic into our discussions.
I have to be extremely gentle as one remark can send her running back to her safe internal prison.

The more I read, the more I understand how wounded mum is.
The slightest bump, even a loving attempt to apply ointment on a wound will cause her to negatively respond.

Mum wounded self is like a complicated intertwining maze or jumble of vines.
I may gently address one issue successfully, but it will trigger another one negatively.
It's taken me 12 months just to get a basic understanding of this complexity, let alone the mechanisms of each wound.

Mum is messed up, but she is also very intuitive and intelligent.
Even as she is lashing out at me or the world or herself for something i have said, whether it's related to her or not, i can see she is processing it deep within.
I know I cannot speak directly of her shame at this time, but i see this will happen sometime in 2012, so that's not far away.

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

...
I have to be extremely gentle as one remark can send her running back to her safe internal prison.

The more I read, the more I understand how wounded mum is.
The slightest bump, even a loving attempt to apply ointment on a wound will cause her to negatively respond.

Mum wounded self is like a complicated intertwining maze or jumble of vines.
I may gently address one issue successfully, but it will trigger another one negatively.
...

Mum is messed up, but she is also very intuitive and intelligent.
Even as she is lashing out at me or the world or herself for something i have said, whether it's related to her or not, i can see she is processing it deep within.
...

I have seen this fairly often AC. Your mum is fortunate you have the patience, understanding, and opportunity to unravel her pain.

Yes, the more intuitive and intelligent they are, often the more difficult it can be. At the slightest hint of encroachment, the old defenses slam into action.

It can be quite demanding.

Originally Posted by Alternate Carpark

~smiles~ thanks Jules. Deeply felt.
I like your insight\observation about shame.

Part of my dark season was me going through my own shame healing.
I've recently broken through a lifetime of shame, guided by a wonderful book ( spoken of in the what books are you reading thread)
By page 30 I already consider myself healed of 40+ years of it. I heal quick once I get the understanding.

As I keep reading, I notice most if not all of my mum's issues are founded on shame.
I am slowly introducing this topic into our discussions.
I have to be extremely gentle as one remark can send her running back to her safe internal prison.

The more I read, the more I understand how wounded mum is.
The slightest bump, even a loving attempt to apply ointment on a wound will cause her to negatively respond.

Mum wounded self is like a complicated intertwining maze or jumble of vines.
I may gently address one issue successfully, but it will trigger another one negatively.
It's taken me 12 months just to get a basic understanding of this complexity, let alone the mechanisms of each wound.

Mum is messed up, but she is also very intuitive and intelligent.
Even as she is lashing out at me or the world or herself for something i have said, whether it's related to her or not, i can see she is processing it deep within.
I know I cannot speak directly of her shame at this time, but i see this will happen sometime in 2012, so that's not far away.

What you have to remember is it's all interlinked, so you deal with one issue and automatically it creates the next so on and so forth. I always imagine it as peeling away layers of an onion until only the core is exposed. But by the time you get to that, you've got enough tools to deal with the real issues and although it may seem huge at the beginning, it's actually not as bad as was first thought.

With your loving help and guidance your mum WILL come through this, with patience and understanding. Which by the sounds of it, you've got heaps of. But you're right you know. The only way you could understand is because you've been through it. And now you're sharing your experience and wisdom where it's needed most. And to me, that's what love is about.

J xx