Are you a real person sat behind a computer?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

I exist

But the question is, Moonie me ole buddy, do YOU exist? What makes a real person 'real'? So we can do all this "I am therefore I think" and "I think therefore I am," but what is 'I'?

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

But the question is, Moonie me ole buddy, do YOU exist? What makes a real person 'real'? So we can do all this "I am therefore I think" and "I think therefore I am," but what is 'I'?

After decades of searching for what we in general call 'the truth', I have reached my personal conclusions and 'I am therefore I think' has played a core role. 'I think therefore I am' has nothing to recommend itself.

I think that 'I' am part of a greater I - a sort of wispy collection of all humanity. My neighbour is another aspect of this wispy collection and his/her basic existence is the same as mine. My (and your) consciousness will always exist and will take on many forms. The 'I' is determined by a 'field' probably electric after a fashion. This 'field' is me, and when I awaken in the morning it sparks into life.
This collection of fields of all humans Jung called the collective unconscious. I think it should be extended to include all forms of life, evolution is inherent in this suggestion.
It is a scientific fact that when human male sperm hits the female carried egg that a spark, or a flash of light can be seen. This is true of some other mammals too.
This field, a sort of plan or blueprint enabled me to create myself in my mother's womb. She didn't (so to speak) have much to do with it.
That I am sitting here in front of my computer is the result of nature evolving.

It has nothing to do with any supernatural being but is dependent upon the feedback the universe's collective unconsciousnesses collects.

That's the reason the universe exists. These fields create thoughts and so here we are.

[RedEmbers]

I am a real person, with my own thoughts, beliefs, values, feelings, dreams and ideas...

I like being a real person.

I am not a robot


I am also often behind a phone. Sometimes I hide behind a tree and jump out at my loved ones when they are not expecting it, just for a laugh.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hello,
I exist
This existence forms a sense of reality with in the mind.
Which forms a sense I am real with in this existence here
What is made of it seems influenced by how and what may be perceived
Thus, influencing what may be thought to be real
The fun part is that no matter what is thought, perceived, or may be concluded as being real does not affect that I exist.
At least while being here. When no longer existing here, may exist elsewhere, just not as this person/individual that exists now.:)

Yep. The sense of reality uses the reality of objects. Part of the program. Even while here, may exist elsewhere.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Busby

After decades of searching for what we in general call 'the truth', I have reached my personal conclusions and 'I am therefore I think' has played a core role. 'I think therefore I am' has nothing to recommend itself.

I think therefore I am can be read in two ways:

I think therefore I am. In simple terms, I exist because I think, which is obviously flawed.

I think therefore I am. This is slightly different There is an entity present behind thought which registers thought, and therefore I know myself to exist as that entity.

I am not familiar with Descartes' writings so I don't know the context of the original quote.

Peace

[Moonglow]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

But the question is, Moonie me ole buddy, do YOU exist? What makes a real person 'real'? So we can do all this "I am therefore I think" and "I think therefore I am," but what is 'I'?

Hi Greenslade, my friend

For me, it is also what and/or who is there when not thinking about it.

Do I, you, or others stop existing because I, you, or others are not thinking about me, you, or others?
Does what exist only exist with in ones mind and how it is interpreted, perceived, and processed to form a reality of sorts?

Whether I am aware of something and/or someone and believe it or the person to be real seems only relevant to me and how I process and sense what is real.

The existence of something and/or someone does not seem to depend upon what I may think or able to process. At least at the basics of it existing.

There may be some that may say reality is formed with in the mind. There seems to me that there is a reality that exists with in creation itself.

Whether I am real to another may be influenced whether the other is even aware of me. I think interacting with others forms a kind of reality between each. This may change and be altered as the relationship(s) further form and grow. This influences the sense of existing by each, but the human/physical person I am being at present exist regardless of what another may think or even aware.
This is just some of my take on this.

Interactions, thoughts, experiences, awareness, how information is processed, beliefs, and possibly some other factors I am not aware of, all influence the sense of reality. Not only of myself and others, but of nature/Universe itself.

Yes I exist. If not then why am I expressing myself here and why are questions asked?:)

Do you sense or feel I exist?
I sense and feel you do.

Originally Posted by Busby

After decades of searching for what we in general call 'the truth', I have reached my personal conclusions and 'I am therefore I think' has played a core role. 'I think therefore I am' has nothing to recommend itself.

The truth is relative to one's own agenda, one being 'I', similarly the 'I' in the other two profound philosophical statements. Or, if you prefer, "I think I am, so am I?" It's taken for granted that there is an 'I', but is there really? What is the 'I' that chooses which of those statements is the truth? Or thinks that the 'field' is 'I'? Because there are unconscious processes chuntering away long before there is a thought of "This 'field' is me."

Originally Posted by Busby

That's the reason the universe exists. These fields create thoughts and so here we are.

Quantum theory would tell you otherwise, that it's the consciousness that creates.

Originally Posted by RedEmbers

I am a real person, with my own thoughts, beliefs, values, feelings, dreams and ideas...
I like being a real person.
I am not a robot
I am also often behind a phone. Sometimes I hide behind a tree and jump out at my loved ones when they are not expecting it, just for a laugh.

"The world, indeed, is like a heat haze,
Things have no form in themselves."
Tao Te Ching
Mary English translation

This real person that the I am, isn't that a 'thing'? As are beliefs, values. dreams, ideas.... To the mind they are objects and to the ego they are possessions as much as as a fancy car and wealth.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Hi Greenslade, my friend

For me, it is also what and/or who is there when not thinking about it.

Hey there Moonie

According to Jung the ego has a couple of 'roles', one of them is to act as a kind of 'gateway' to filter out extraneous information, otherwise we'd be too overwhelmed by it all. The unconscious takes care of the majority of it - some 90-95% - and the ego becomes conscious of the rest. This is where 'I' rears its ugly head. But what happens before that? Who or what is there when not thinking about it, when going beyond/underneath the thought of thought?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Do I, you, or others stop existing because I, you, or others are not thinking about me, you, or others?
Does what exist only exist with in ones mind and how it is interpreted, perceived, and processed to form a reality of sorts?

That's the question though. Bashar said that if we are conscious of something it must exist, because it cannot enter our consciousness if it doesn't exist. If I stopped existing would what used to be 'I' to you suddenly wink out of your consciousness?

We know from psychology that what we are conscious of is the 'end result' of a framework of unconscious processes, and if one of those processes was altered then our perceptions of reality change. Mine certainly did and if people are as self-ware as they'd like to think they are then it's true for them too. Reading posts and 'digesting' what is said in them does influence people's realities, and 'I' becomes 'a little bit me, a little bit you'. I stole that from the Monkees, by the way.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Whether I am aware of something and/or someone and believe it or the person to be real seems only relevant to me and how I process and sense what is real.

So what am I, chopped liver? And you too? Here we are, interacting so doesn't that mean it's relevant to each other as well?

Originally Posted by Moonglow

The existence of something and/or someone does not seem to depend upon what I may think or able to process. At least at the basics of it existing.

We can't become conscious of something/someone unless it exists so the existence of that something is fundamental. What we do is help to define how it exists.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

There may be some that may say reality is formed with in the mind. There seems to me that there is a reality that exists with in creation itself.

Whether I am real to another may be influenced whether the other is even aware of me. I think interacting with others forms a kind of reality between each. This may change and be altered as the relationship(s) further form and grow. This influences the sense of existing by each, but the human/physical person I am being at present exist regardless of what another may think or even aware.
This is just some of my take on this.

Interactions, thoughts, experiences, awareness, how information is processed, beliefs, and possibly some other factors I am not aware of, all influence the sense of reality. Not only of myself and others, but of nature/Universe itself.

Reality is formed by any number of aspects of 'you', and if you want a Spiritual perspective then the Eightfold Path covers quite a bit of that ground, and there are parallels between that and psychology. The ancients didn't use the word 'psychology' because they didn't see any difference between that and religion/philosophy.

External reality exists, otherwise we wouldn't be able to park our backsides and we can't breathe illusory air. So 'something' is 'out there' beyond our own little bubble of reality.

Reality is based on perception on the surface at least, but perception has it's unconscious frameworks. How we treat people is one factor but how other people perceive it is the deciding factor, and obviously that's relative to their reality. In the interaction we create each other, to a greater or lesser degree. Should I be wary of that in our interaction? Asking for a friend.

Originally Posted by Moonglow

Yes I exist. If not then why am I expressing myself here and why are questions asked?:)

Do you sense or feel I exist?
I sense and feel you do.

Are you a samurai dreaming you are a butterfly or are you a butterfly dreaming you are a butterfly?

You think you exist but what if you are no thing? Who or what is beyond the thought that you exist. who are what is doing the expressing - is it really 'you' or something that you call you?

There's a saying around here - "No sense, no feeling." It means that you can't feel if there is nothing to feel it, 'it' being the cold, compassion, etc...

I sense and feel you exist, I'm just not certain what that 'you' is and that's the part that's intriguing.

[Busby]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Quantum theory would tell you otherwise, that it's the consciousness that creates.

Rather surprised that you say that when science is convinced that the brain alone is the creative element. In other words the brain (science says) ctreates consciousness.