Deep dive on 4 Noble Truth philosphy

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

' Such adverse impulses seem to be compassionately motivated, but they are, in fact, motivated by hatred '


Maybe for you but I'm 100% sure The Buddha wouldn't agree, neither do I.

So, you don't agree and suppose Buddha would disagree to add false veracity to your own view .

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

So, you don't agree and suppose Buddha would disagree to add false veracity to your own view .

I don't suppose Buddha would disagree, I know through His Teachings and through my own personal experiences....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

I don't suppose Buddha would disagree, I know through His Teachings and through my own personal experiences....

People have adverse reactions to this sort of thing and mistake it for compassion, and that tendency brings about conditions for violence and the like. Lootings, burnings, bashings and shootings did happen as a result, after all. Do you think that was brought about by compassion or is it more likely it was actually reactivity such as outrage, frustration, and other such adverse reactions?

[sentient]

At times talking at cross purposes, it is not always easy to get others meanings …
but I think I get you here Gem (or not):

Originally Posted by Gem

Throughout history there has been suffering and people have tried to do something about it, but they mistake their adverse reactions to suffering as compassion. That adverse reactivity impels the volition and turns the wheels of kamma. Hence it is no surprise that despite best efforts, suffering continues to be self-generated and projected into the world.

Such adverse impulses seem to be compassionately motivated, but they are, in fact, motivated by hatred. Hence our seeming compassion for BLM, for example, is also our hatred of something else, and it is precisely that tension between aversion and desire which is the cause of dukkha rather that the resolution of it. Hence the movement itself is fundamentally misguided and manifests conditions of violence rather than allays them.

Or Animal Liberationist’s seeming compassion for Animals.

Once upon a time a leisurely walk by the riverside parklands & the Circus had come to town.
Animals were all calm, well shaded, watered and fed …. lazing about in their cages … when … you could feeeeel a negative wave coming ….

I felt alarmed - the animals got alarmed and totally stressed when the animal liberationists came violently shouting …… totally clueless about the anxiety and suffering they were creating ….
All that ‘compassion’ in concept only …. no matter how ‘right’ their ideals might have been, the effect was the opposite.

*

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sentient

At times talking at cross purposes, it is not always easy to get others meanings …
but I think I get you here Gem (or not):


Or Animal Liberationist’s seeming compassion for Animals.

Once upon a time a leisurely walk by the riverside parklands & the Circus had come to town.
Animals were all calm, well shaded, watered and fed …. lazing about in their cages … when … you could feeeeel a negative wave coming ….

I felt alarmed - the animals got alarmed and totally stressed when the animal liberationists came violently shouting …… totally clueless about the anxiety and suffering they were creating ….
All that ‘compassion’ in concept only …. no matter how ‘right’ their ideals might have been, the effect was the opposite.

*

Yes, good example. There are also examples of animal lovers who take the pet dogs of homeless people from them. They think it is a compassionate act, but it isn't. It's misguided in the sense that they think they are compassionately motivated when they are motivated by reactivity, and because that nature of volition is the kamma that craates the conditions for unfavourable outcomes, it ends up creating further harm.


It's not like I don't care about black lives. It's just that I'm not involved in the ruckus. I think we don't have to 'do something' because we feel upset, because when we do that we end up hurting someone else.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Yes, good example. There are also examples of animal lovers who take the pet dogs of homeless people from them. They think it is a compassionate act, but it isn't. It's misguided in the sense that they think they are compassionately motivated when they are motivated by reactivity, and because that nature of volition is the kamma that craates the conditions for unfavourable outcomes, it ends up creating further harm.


It's not like I don't care about black lives. It's just that I'm not involved in the ruckus. I think we don't have to 'do something' because we feel upset, because when we do that we end up hurting someone else.

You use ' They think ' as if you know what people are thinking


Volition, volition, volition is Karma.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

You use ' They think ' as if you know what people are thinking

You know what Buddha thinks

Volition, volition, volition is Karma.

[sky]

[quote=Gem]You know what Buddha thinks



You will get a good idea from reading His teachings and by putting them into practice .

When you go to your Ashram to learn Buddhist Meditation I presume they don't advertise the classes as ' As what we think is Buddhist Meditation ' .

[Gem]

You will get a good idea from reading His teachings and by putting them into practice

When you go to your Ashram to learn Buddhist Meditation I presume they don't advertise the classes as ' As what we think is Buddhist Meditation ' .

We just practice mindfulness based on the Satipatthana Sutta. I have undertaken numerous retreats and served dana in multiple capacities. In that way, my practice is fairly extensive and multifacited. Now I just go on the forum and talk about things and do deep dives on aspects of the philosophy, but I because my understanding is nuanced, I elaborate in full paragraphs. For example, you came back saying volition (x3) is kamma after I had just I unpacked the nuances of the Buddhist philosophy of kamma over several paragaphs... in a particular context... Anyway, I doubt you'll have any idea what I'm talking about, but I figured might as well give it crack.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

We just practice mindfulness based on the Satipatthana Sutta. I have undertaken numerous retreats and served dana in multiple capacities. In that way, my practice is fairly extensive and multifacited. Now I just go on the forum and talk about things and do deep dives on aspects of the philosophy, but I because my understanding is nuanced, I elaborate in full paragraphs. For example, you came back saying volition (x3) is kamma after I had just I unpacked the nuances of the Buddhist philosophy of kamma over several paragaphs... in a particular context... Anyway, I doubt you'll have any idea what I'm talking about, but I figured might as well give it crack.

' Anyway, I doubt you'll have any idea what I'm talking about, '


There we see it again.... You thinking that you personally know what others know, Buddhist Teachings on ' Preconceptions ' may help.