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  #101  
Old 30-10-2020, 01:43 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
When I first went to meditation school I didn't trust them, but after a time I saw they were at least trustworthy, but they had to earn my trust. Now I know they are good and just want to help people with meditation.




A school need to have a ethical framework to build the organisation on, and have a clear defined mission like : to teach dhamma to as many people as possible. We run a tight ship because we are single minded about the mission and everything we do, and all of the rules, are there to accomplish it. If it doesn't help achieve the mission, it isn't there.


Then there are the rules... but rules are not followed in obedience. They explain that the rules are in place to make the best conditions for meditation, which benefits the meditators. In essence, morality makes the place safe and the rules are defined boundaries for protections.... It's more involved that that of course, it's more complex over all. It's pretty skillful to really create a refuge where people are safe to be vulnerable, and not too many people actually have that skill.



' It's pretty skillful to really create a refuge where people are safe to be vulnerable, and not too many people actually have that skill.'


I know there are ' Not To Many ' Grapes left in my Fruit Bowl because I have eaten them and can see the amount left, now can I say that ' Not to many people actually have that skill ' I could presume but never be certain as I have never personally attended every School / Refuge in the entire World nor met every person

I would say ' I don't know ' .
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  #102  
Old 31-10-2020, 09:52 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' It's pretty skillful to really create a refuge where people are safe to be vulnerable, and not too many people actually have that skill.'


I know there are ' Not To Many ' Grapes left in my Fruit Bowl because I have eaten them and can see the amount left, now can I say that ' Not to many people actually have that skill ' I could presume but never be certain as I have never personally attended every School / Refuge in the entire World nor met every person

I would say ' I don't know ' .




Cool. You claim not to know and I claim that I know a thing or two about the conditions of refuge and I have been elaborating. You have no reason to believe me (and shouldn't) or be interested in it, but it's an issue of nuances and isn't a conclusive answer...
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  #103  
Old 01-11-2020, 09:26 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Thumbs up ethical framework

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Everyone knows that I assess teachers on the basis of their conduct. I make no secret of it. If a supposed teacher can't walk the talk, I have no reason to listen to their lip service. My background is in a school where moral conduct is the foundation of everything else, and for good reasons which I have previously elaborated on. It is plain to see that where 'right conduct' is lax, degeneracy is bound to arise.

It really comes back to the law of kamma which states: volition creates potentials which manifest as experience. Simplistically, good will brings about benefit and ill-will brings about harm. That's obvious and goes without saying. The Buddhist philosophy goes into the deeper nuances of it, and if one undertakes 'right meditation' they come to understand the relevance of it and the responsibility it implies. Obviously there are some called teacher who are infantile in sila, so they have no foundation, are unworthy of refuge, and harm everyone who trusts them, but sure, they know how to say all the right spiritual things to groom docile devotees and become rich from their kind donations.

To recognise a good school, make sure that sila is foundational, and ensure the teachers and trustees are established in moral conviction. If a teacher is a drunk, promiscuous or takes wealth from ashram coffers... that's certainly to be avoided.

If the place is clear that their higher ups are not remunerated, that sexual misconduct is frowned upon, that intoxication has no place in any meditation school, that's a good sign. A good school will insist on celibacy within the ashram, all intoxicants will be banned, and they will have a strictly regulated code of conduct that establishes the boundaries that form proper protections which are essential to spiritual development.

The process of purification makes people extraordinarily vulnerable, so a teacher would never be drunk or seek pleasures from those who come and stay, and the donations people make are for the benefit of those who come after them; not for lining the pockets of teachers and trustees. They are only there to benefit others and want nothing in return.

Excellent ethical framework as u elaborated is very much important in almost everything for society's all-round holistic progress and certainly very much for the mediation school . Nowadays we are finding very few such clear minded ethical people and your commitment to sila is very much commendable and worth applauding whether there are others having such skills or not is a different matter.
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