Law of Attraction + Opposites Attract?!

Monkey - your interpretation/understanding sounds fine to me (using this law). I was questioning it at the basic level (i.e. that like attracting like didn't seem to include opposites attract).

Chadley - hi, nice to hear from you. Once again you provide me with the crucial nugget of wisdom that enables me to better understand the issue. I realise that it's only mind that perceives duality, which reminded me of the time I studied A Course In Miracles.

TzuJanli - I agree with you and I'm far from being a stickler for laws, it's just that I wanted to treat it with the respect/attention I thought it deserved, being a spiritual law. I couldn't work out how like attracting like could be compatible with opposites attract. It reminded me of a Mel Brooks film "History of the World Part 1". In this, Moses descends from the mountain clutching stone tablets. Looking down at his people he says, "Behold, I have 15 commandments". Then one of the tablets falls from his grasp and shatters. "Ten - I have 10 commandments"!!!

GoldChord - Sorry, I apologise - seems you were right that there wasn't any contradiction involved in this law. I'm wiser now.

Greetings..

Complimentary opposites.. or, contrasting principles.. Yin/Yang, Light/Dark, soft/hard, etc... each necessary to define the other.. we speak of "non-duality", often without considering that the mind that expresses that thought is dual by definition.. any expressed thought is dual and the subject is dual, non-duality cannot even be expressed.. to speak it implies a speaker and an observer, to think it implies the thought and the thinker.. it's a handy notion, but wholly impractical.. to pursue it is to pursue the end of existence.. at the most basic level of the Universe there is duality, Consciousness and the absence of Consciousness, the void which cradles it.. the Primal Yin (void) and the primal Yang (Consciousness).. Since consciousness implies something to be conscious of, then the only true non-dual condition is an absolute Void, where there is no existence..

Opposites do attract, they complete the experience.. if only likes attract there will be unresolvable imbalance.. the "Law of Atraction" is better considered as the condition of preference and desire.. we seek that which we desire, to label it as a "Law" is just good marketing.. it inspires people to be more creative in their pursuit of their desires.. While it has a highly desirable attractiveness, it still implies that what you desire you create in consciousness and it will be attracted into your reality.. the basic premise, is desire.. the attractability is based on the certainty of the desire.. if anything, it is evidence of the Consciousness's Creative abilities, not a Cosmic Law..

Be well..

[chadley]

The law of attraction applies for all, without exception in all cases. It is called a law because all are subject to it and it operates precisely in all circumstances. Do you desire to be subject to the law of gravity? Choose now to not be affected by it with all of your might, and tell me what happens. You still fall on your hinny, don't you? Does everything you desire come true? Man, lucky you. Do you really believe love ever attracts anything but love? And fear anything but fear?

Tzu, you said earlier, ""Laws" are not immutable.. they are a set of conditions that produce undesirable consequences". This statement suggests that you do not understand the law of attraction. The law of attraction, once understood, allows you to CREATE what you DESIRE".

Tzu, you and I had a really civilized and fun chat in dimensions, so I think it would be safe to try again. There is a fundamental difference in our viewpoints that I would like to discover further. I look forward to hearing from you.

Chadley.

Greetings..

The law of attraction applies for all, without exception in all cases. It is called a law because all are subject to it and it operates precisely in all circumstances.

This has an oddly familiar sound to it, a certain immutable finality.. It's called a "Law" because somebody chose to call it that, not because there is some Universal Code of Statutes.. oh, science has already altered the force of gravity, i.e.: broken the "Law" (Princeton, 1999, if i recall the date correctly).. from which, the result implies the potential for producing power from a limitless supply.. the difference in measurable gravitational force initiated an electrical charge as the gravitational force seeks to rebalance itself..

But, that's not the real issue.. i watched the movie, "The Secret", and was struck with the simplistic absurdity of it.. nothing was presented that was not common knowledge to most metaphysical seekers.. The "Law of Attraction" is no more than the quality of someone's intentions.. it's not a "Law", it's your inherent ability to create your own reality. Just because a person or a group of people observe certain consistencies in the way they choose to manifest their realities, does not create a "Law" for ALL beings.. remember, humans have very limited abilities of perception.. AND, there is far too much evidence contradicting the principles of the "Law".. history is littered with examples of good and prosperous peoples being conquered by barbaric hoards, how did "like attract like"? of course, it will be easy to convert that question into a spiritual game of semantics, but.. the evidence speaks for itself.. peaceful Pacific Islanders driven to extinction by cultures they never even knew existed.. Native Americans, though not so peaceful, driven from their ancestral homeland by peoples they never even knew existed.. not even interactive Karma, in these examples.. simply one group's focused intentions over-riding another's..

Be Well..

Greetings..

Hi Chadley: Absolutely, i greatly enjoy dialoguing with you, even when we passionately disagree.. please do not misconstrue my passion for disrespect, it is not so.. not even in instance previously noted, with other posters..

Be well..

[chadley]

Tzu, I love your passion and respect you a great deal, which is why I feel inclined to address the topic with you.

It is my position that this law holds true for all including you despite what you, tzu, desire. Your position may differ, and thats fine, but in order to address my point of view, you will have to accept the fact that my view requires the understanding of double attraction (I will call it double attraction just for fun from now on) to be an immutable truth. The structure by which the universe as we know it is necessary and has purpose. If everything was simply our own separate creation without "law" or organization, than nothing we have learned in all of our lifetimes would be of any value, because it would have no basis. Now it is true, every single person controls there own world, they navigate it with choice and can determine the outcome of their life. However, they do so by discovering the positive application of universal law. They do so by the law, they choose whether to limit themselves by it, or to become limitless. The ego views this design as controlling and taking away choice because it would seem we are then pre-destined to live by these laws. However, the higher mind knows that the laws are actually the creators design and since we are the creators then we are the designers, the architect of this law. The law has already been created by our higher will and thus discord is only resolved by aligning our will in accordance with it.

You have said that non-duality cannot be perceived. Well, then, does this not make duality and immutable truth or some would say a law? Can, by your own creative will, experience non-duality? If not, than by the same definition can duality not be described as a law no different than the law of attraction? Why not?

In reality, there truly is non-duality. It cannot be experienced with the mind because the mind can only describe, it cannot experience. Can we do it justice with words, not likely. But, fortunately the mind is not the only tool that we have. We have soul, which is not dual. And we DO have soul with us at all times, it is a part of us and thus if we become so adept, we can know soul and its singular state that lies above consciousness.

Remember those example I gave Amy in regards to apparent opposites, but in reality with higher perception one can see that they are not, that they are born from the same emotion? The examples you illustrated are just more of the same kind. It is your ego that views the Native Americans as the victims and the barbaric hoards as the assailant. Just because your mind does not perceive the symbiosis behind why these occurrences played out in history does not mean that they were not equally apposing imbalances born by the same emotion. Do you believe people or entire societies to be victims of pure cosmic chance? This is simply not so.

Your view on they way the universe works is a very well put together philosophy and has much wisdom in it. However, I have found, that it is simply not true. Because, despite what scientists at Princeton have discovered, you still fall on your hinny if you don’t have a balloon.

Chadley and TzuJanLi,

Thank you for this insightful discussion. You are both obviously well informed on this topic. Your interpretations are most useful. However, I think it is also often the case that we tend to forget what it is like to struggle with these basic ideas especially when others have been exploring them for a long time and reconciled many of the questions that arise. What is important for me and perhaps other readers of this thread is that the 'law of attraction' is profoundly simple and deeply complex because humans are both limited and timeless creatures. It is perfectly feasible to live with contradiction - but the law of attraction as it manifests in our lives is the great leveler and marker of where we really are in our lives - consciously and emotionally.

What I mean by this is that 'desire' is the problem in this relationship (between us and the law of attraction). Yes - we can create our own lives - but when we get caught up in desire and want, this is where we get in to trouble because these are emotions of the ego - they can then lead us to fear and doubt - which is then what we attract. It is perfectly feasible to be prosperous and abundant, but also harbour fear that it will be taken away - and then - it is. The so called 'peaceful' Pacific Islanders (who weren't so peaceful either) certainly were able to generate their prosperity and then be invaded. These islands are among the most remote in the world - they needed trade with surrounding islands, near and far, to survive. If you want to know more about this read Jared Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive. We are contradictory creatures but the law of attraction also shows us the beautiful simplicity of our universe.

I don't know if this contributes anything to your discussion. Maybe I just needed to clarify my own position on this.

Take care.

Greetings..

First, i am profoundly appreciative to be afforded the opportunity to discuss these issues with such informed and interesting people.. Thank you all..

Now, the issues..

If everything was simply our own separate creation without "law" or organization, than nothing we have learned in all of our lifetimes would be of any value, because it would have no basis.

I can't justify that position.. are you implying that for "value" there must be "Law", more specifically, the "Law of Attraction"? How does the absence of a "Law" determine "no basis".. We assign the values of any thing according to our arbitrary standards.. what one man values another discards..

The ego views this design as controlling and taking away choice because it would seem we are then pre-destined to live by these laws. However, the higher mind knows that the laws are actually the creators design and since we are the creators then we are the designers, the architect of this law. The law has already been created by our higher will and thus discord is only resolved by aligning our will in accordance with it.

Higher mind?.. here, is where i see what you refer to as "ego", separating mind into values of higher and lower.. setting boundaries and standards to satisfy the ego's need to be seen as rising to a "higher" place than another.. I do not see the situation as "controlling and taking away choice", i see it as an artificial mental construction.. a tool used to satisfy or justify the apparent inconsistencies of Life.. If, as you say, we are the creators of the "Law", then we are equally capable of rising above its limitations..

It might be a good time to ask, how do you perceive the effects of this "Law of Attraction"? How does it operate in your perspective?

If not, than by the same definition can duality not be described as a law no different than the law of attraction? Why not?

Again, here we have a situation where there is simply an existent condition.. it's not a "Law" until we box it in to our narrowly conceived operation of the Universe.. Consider the actual implications of "non-duality", the condition where there is not even 2 things.. there is only ONE thing.. if there is anything other than an absolute vaccuous void, then there is that thing AND the void, back to 2 things and no "non-dual" condition.. if there is a consciousness to perceive non-duality, then there is not non-duality.. here is where the New-Age crowd conveniently romanticizes "non-duality" without considering the depth of the meaning.. it's a nice "buzz-word", but wholly impractical.. "Laws" are just convenient ways for human intellect to categorize conditions that seem immutable..

As i predicted, "it will be easy to convert that question into a spiritual game of semantics", and so.. we now shape the "Law of Attraction" to fit a simple existent condition.. Pacific Islanders, Native Americans, etc.. it is noteworthy that the conditions exist with or without us assigning a "Law" to it.. if no one had conceived of this "law", the condition would still exist.. the "Law" is a mental construction that we shape around our perceptions and preferences.. Here, i would ask people to be very honest with themselves.. do you truly believe that there exists a set of Universal "Laws" that await our discovery and application? or, do you believe that we assign these values we call "Laws" to fit our ability to comprehend the Universe.. Remember, that history is littered with discarded "truths", previous values that were regarded as "immutable truths", but that fell in the face of the only "truth" i can accept, Change... It is inconsistent to speak of "limitlessness" and "Laws", they are mutually exclusive..

We have soul, which is not dual. And we DO have soul with us at all times, it is a part of us and thus if we become so adept, we can know soul and its singular state that lies above consciousness.

How can this be? How can we "have soul" and the soul be non-dual"? you cannot have it both ways.. it is a convenient and attractive notion, i have embraced it in the past, but.. further insights compell me to accept things "as they are", putting away judgement and values that i may have conjured to conveniently categorize my experiences.. it would be of great interest to me if someone could describe "soul" as used in the above quote..

If, as i perceive it, the suggestion of "non-dual" is based on perceptions of many converging into a singular perception of unity, then, there would be increasingly broader and broader perceptions of unity.. while still there is the perceived and the perveiver, duality..
[quote]
Your view on they way the universe works is a very well put together philosophy and has much wisdom in it. However, I have found, that it is simply not true. Because, despite what scientists at Princeton have discovered, you still fall on your hinny if you don

[chadley]

Tzu, that was a great reply, thank you. Most importantly it really helped me to understand your point of view and I think you do it tremendous justice. We may never agree, but that is even the point for me. I love discussing with people capable of backing up there points. It truly gives me pleasure. Just the fact that your posts make me pause for a second before I reply, I think is very valuable, because just like the scientists that are constantly testing the boundaries of apparent law, I do the same when I come across aspects of application that were previously not considered.

Now, where were we? Ah, yes my quote about life relying on law in order to have basis. It seems that maybe you just don

Interesting stuff, Chadley... thank you for taking the trouble to explain all that; I agree with you! It really is great when people engage in discussions like this.

Cheers,
Pounamu