beyond the known

[FallingLeaves]

Mark 4 -
11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them

so everyone knows that if you act a certain way you get the results of your activities. This verse kinda hints that God/Jesus actively prohibit people from acting in desirable ways sometimes, so that they cannot do activities they might otherwise find beneficial and reap the rewards of those activities. Apparently there is something else going on beyond our desire to play games with cause and effect to get beneficial resultws...

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

Mark 4 -
11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them

so everyone knows that if you act a certain way you get the results of your activities. This verse kinda hints that God/Jesus actively prohibit people from acting in desirable ways sometimes, so that they cannot do activities they might otherwise find beneficial and reap the rewards of those activities. Apparently there is something else going on beyond our desire to play games with cause and effect to get beneficial resultws...

FallingLeaves,

The cause and effect in play here was the turning away from God. The prophet Jonah warned of the consequences....Jonah 2:8....."Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs." Because of their turning away from God they were denied the grace of God which otherwise would have opened their eyes to truth.

The longer version of the scripture that you quoted is found in Matthew 13:10-17.....it provides context to the scripture you cited. The grace that was denied was the giving of the Spirit....the Spirit is that which removes blindness. That is what Christ was to restore. See John 7:37-39....it helps to explain that.

Now in regards to grace and the denial of grace by God I would refer anyone to Romans 11:1-8......vs. 8 says...."God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day." These preceding verses help to explain the blindness and deafness and their lack of understanding.

A side note to consider is the symbolism of the 40 year journey of the Israelites from Egypt to the promised land. Why 40 years ? If one looks at the map that distance could have been traversed in 2 weeks perhaps. I would suggest that the 40 years represented the period of time that was necessary for purgation.....purgation from their attachment and beliefs and exposure to the gods of Egypt. This 'purgation' remains as a necessary step for modern day people. We have our own attachments, misconceptions, entrenched beliefs, prejuidices, etc that separate us from the Spirit and God. Mystical Christianity recognizes 3 steps to union with God(theosis).....they are purgation, illumination and finally union with God.

everyone who reads a verse will probably get their own thing out of it and that's nice. what i like to do is search on the verse in bible gateway, then look at all the english translations then usually i like the AMP version best.

here is the AMP version of that:

Mark 4:10-12
Amplified Bible
10 As soon as He was alone, those who were around Him, together with the twelve [disciples], began asking Him about [the interpretation of] the parables. 11 He said to them, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you [who have teachable hearts], but those who are outside [the unbelievers, the spiritually blind] get everything in parables, 12 so that they will continually look but not see, and they will continually hear but not understand, otherwise they might turn [from their rejection of the truth] and be forgiven.”

this is how i would say it

As soon as Jesus was alone with his most committed followers, he was asked about the interpretation of his parables. Jesus said, the meaning is to be lived, carried in our hearts, properly understood it changes us, what we are and so how we act, how we perceive the world. Living in each moment in the mystery and wonderment of being. With that love and joy of god. But those stuck in their minds just look for the meaning in words, not in life itself, so they carry the parables around instead of what the parables point to. So they read the parables but don't get the realized meanings, they hear them and don't understand, if they did get the meanings and apply them in their life, they would be free of sin, the light and truth of god would be with and in them.

beyond the known is to live in the mystery of the moment and of being. the known is to view things though words, interpret now though ideas, the unknown is to simply be present without a mental interpretation. be in the infinite now without bringing in anything about the past or future.

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

everyone who reads a verse will probably get their own thing out of it and that's nice. what i like to do is search on the verse in bible gateway, then look at all the english translations then usually i like the AMP version best.

here is the AMP version of that:

Mark 4:10-12
Amplified Bible
10 As soon as He was alone, those who were around Him, together with the twelve [disciples], began asking Him about [the interpretation of] the parables. 11 He said to them, “The mystery of the kingdom of God has been given to you [who have teachable hearts], but those who are outside [the unbelievers, the spiritually blind] get everything in parables, 12 so that they will continually look but not see, and they will continually hear but not understand, otherwise they might turn [from their rejection of the truth] and be forgiven.”

this is how i would say it

As soon as Jesus was alone with his most committed followers, he was asked about the interpretation of his parables. Jesus said, the meaning is to be lived, carried in our hearts, properly understood it changes us, what we are and so how we act, how we perceive the world. Living in each moment in the mystery and wonderment of being. With that love and joy of god. But those stuck in their minds just look for the meaning in words, not in life itself, so they carry the parables around instead of what the parables point to. So they read the parables but don't get the realized meanings, they hear them and don't understand, if they did get the meanings and apply them in their life, they would be free of sin, the light and truth of god would be with and in them.

beyond the known is to live in the mystery of the moment and of being. the known is to view things though words, interpret now though ideas, the unknown is to simply be present without a mental interpretation. be in the infinite now without bringing in anything about the past or future.

AbodhiSky,

I like that....:). The condensation would be: look to the spiritual, the intellectual is a stumbling block......

[Zeke55]

Paul was trained to believe in an external, historical past of Israel. To him David was the king of kings. But when God revealed his son in him, Paul claimed he did not see anyone as flesh and blood. What man, believing in the historicity of scripture, could understand what Paul was talking about, when he was the one who formerly tormented anyone who would not accept the historicity of the Old Testament! But, when discussing the Messiah, Paul confessed that he could no longer believe in any historical character of the Old Testament. (The New, of course had not been written yet). Through revelation Paul knew who the Messiah was and who the Lord was. Seeing himself as the Lord, the one the world believes to be Jesus, Paul knew that what the world believed to be a mighty king was his only begotten son who was never flesh and blood. He knew the entire episode took place in the spirit, and said: “When it pleased God to reveal his son in me, I discussed it not with flesh and blood.”

[FallingLeaves]

isaiah 53
6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

apparently there is a price for this situation, where we each lust after our own desires. Man it is nice that we don't have to pay it! That we can just shove it on to someone else to bear the burden of our own sins! and then (like the rest of this chapter says) totally disregard this person and cut them off from life! While all the while claiming we are good people!

[Nowayout]

Biblical Quotes taken out of context are like taking a fish out of the water and then trying to explain the ocean.

Christianity in its "fullness" is the revelations of God's Divinity and subsequent plan for our humanity? The dance continues.

We are the fish, God is the ocean. Some of us need a little help along the way, and don't forget everyone has their own biological inefficiencies? Gay people, transgenders are OK with me, heartless Madmen are another case altogether.

On man's dance is anothers struggle, we all have hearts to see, at best?? harden not your heart, as blind as others may be, naturally, it's all conditional to the brain, and the flesh.

Jesus was the perfect human and God in the flesh, all he said was your sins are forgiven (repentance and spiritual understanding) go sin no more, ( what else could he say) knowing his path was the cross. However, he had a revulsion for the Pharisees and the Scribes. Laws, in the end, need the holy spirit to be understood?

My cross is big too, help me, Lord! That little prayer is enough, I pray. These are dark days.

Day by day....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoHxB4idmg

It dates me... Lol.

[Nowayout]

Beyond the known, will Christianity be able to keep pace with human evolution?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD6hyGXRcgk

I am what I am.

Not as sick as some, a little sick as the good physician comes on waves of my prayers, and light.

[Nowayout]

The Future of Man
Bertrand Russell calmly examines three foreseeable possibilities for the human race. ( he's dated now lol)

Before the end of the present century, unless something quite unforeseeable occurs, one of three possibilities will have been realized. These three are: —

1. The end of human life, perhaps of all life on our planet.

2. A reversion to barbarism after a catastrophic diminution of the population of the globe.

3. A unification of the world under a single government, possessing a monopoly of all the major weapons of war.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...of-man/305193/


What would be the Christian view following the thread?

Not forgetting who the Prince of this world is...


Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death... Amen.

[neil]

Originally Posted by Nowayout

The Future of Man
Bertrand Russell calmly examines three foreseeable possibilities for the human race.

Before the end of the present century, unless something quite unforeseeable occurs, one of three possibilities will have been realized. These three are: —

1. The end of human life, perhaps of all life on our planet.

2. A reversion to barbarism after a catastrophic diminution of the population of the globe.

3. A unification of the world under a single government, possessing a monopoly of all the major weapons of war.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...of-man/305193/


What would be the Christian view?

Well for a start, the people that exist on this planet are not humans. They are spiritual beings/persons, that are individually connected to non sentient & non aware sensory/processing units, refered to as an earthly physical body.
Call that unit, a human if you choose to, though it is not, sentient nor aware. and so it really is not a human, and neither is the
spiritual "Soul'self/man" that is connected to that organic sensory & processing unit.

The physical body is simply a ways & means for spiritual beings "mankind", to create off spring.
Life starts here on Earth for mankind, so that mankind can create offspring in the very likeness of the conceiving parents themselves. because it can not be done in spirit, without the flesh.

The first parents were spiritual beings, placed on this planet by a creator being. And it wouldn't matter if there wasn't a single one of us left.
Over time the planet would break down every last created thing, that spiritual mankind ever created and left on this planet. And the animals & earth would eventually be rejuvenated , without a trace of the previous inhabitants.

& then the creator could restart the whole process all over again. by placing another set of first parents on Earth.
And while the next generation of spiritual Earthlings evolve away, the previous inhabitants of earth, would exist in the spiritual heavens eternally...or not, because the creator entity may already have done the same thing on another planet, within another solar system, within another galaxy far far away....ETC...Maybe even numerously.
🤔