Tradition and the resistance to change.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Then either/or sitting standing will become moot, because you will be shot anyway, so it is not 'double-blind'. It's "I am going to shoot you regardless" is it not?

Yes that is the point which you were aware of from the first reference but thanks for the mischief :)

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Yes that is the point which you were aware of from the first reference but thanks for the mischief :)

I was not aware of it until you said that laying down was also not an option.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by revolver

Yes we can use them as a tool, but always remembering we are not that, we are far more then mere traditions.

Yea, we made it; it didn't make us.

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Mind has a way of making Ego appear as though it has collapsed in the so called realized because that is what the followers expect, while it sits behind that facade smoking a cigar.

To my understanding, you are describing the Narcissist’s mask.

The ones I have known have had one absent parent and the other parent was a drug-addict/alcoholic or autistic - and as such could not give the child the attention/love they so desperately needed. After all a small child’s very life depends on parents being able to attend to the needs of the child.

But this - the child’s mind mistakenly sees as being his/her fault, that they are not lovable or enough as they are. This also then becomes a core belief of a person.

Hence the child puts on the mask he/she imagines the other person would find lovable and accept, whilst behind the mask the mind, like a hawk, watches whether the mask works or not on the onlooker.

If it doesn’t work – fear and paranoia - panic takes hold on the Narcissist mind and the “threat” to that mask has to be eliminated at all cost. Here is where the Narcissist turns malicious, but in panicked state sees it as “self-defence”.


It is very easy to become an enabler to a Narcissist, because empathetically you do sense the vulnerability and the fragility of the character/persona/mask and as their minds are also full of subconscious fears.

A Narcissist's plea almost always seems to be:
“If you truly love me you will (assume a make-belief role) in support of my fantasy-reality, which will then make me feel safe and in control (and without which my mind will surely shatter!)"

But of course enablers never truly help the Narcissist.
Some kind of a journey back to change the false core belief could help, but often times the masked persona having been successful in the masked game is now loving this power-game it found.

[Iamit]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

I was not aware of it until you said that laying down was also not an option.

Then ideed you did miss the point and I'm glad its now clarified. Isnt discussion great. We must try it again sometime:)

Only joking. I am pleased we can talk when its not so charged and thank you for it.

I also hold that story dear for obvious reasons.

I have to work now.

Be well.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Iamit

Then ideed you did miss the point and I'm glad its now clarified. Isnt discussion great. We must try it again sometime:)

Only joking. I am pleased we can talk when its not so charged and thank you for it.

I also hold that story dear for obvious reasons.

I have to work now.

Be well.

You be well also my dear and have a nice day at work.

[sentient]

Another’s bliss can be another’s trauma-field.

I’ll just continue here with my mental aberrations …


Eye contact can be very stressful for some people affected by autism.

In traditional Australian Aboriginal areas avoidance of eye contact is seen as showing respect.

In my own culture (somewhere there) people also avoided direct eye-contact and just glanced “sacred objects” and other people with peripheral vision after the initial meeting.
I trust this “practice” was to make the person go within and enter into a deep listening of the other person’s “being” (self + no-self) i.e. take the whole presence of another (including the energy field) in.
And when both enter into a deep inner listening – a shift into shared presence/oneness (bliss/love) can occur.


Westerners seem to have some difficulty with this. Why is it?


And you can explain the whole meaning of this mode to a Narcissist in the most supportive, loving atmosphere and way, but if you then withdraw from eye-contact to demonstrate, you will only push the Narcissist into a trauma-field and into imagining all kinds of evils and horrors within such darkness...
- because the Narcissist’s character/persona/mask is utterly dependent on mirroring it through the eyes of another, to see if the charm works and thus if the constructed character is safe and has the overall control in the situation.
So there is a major fear barrier there to overcome.

[revolver]

Or avoiding eye contact could simply be low esteem, or shyness.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by sentient

Another’s bliss can be another’s trauma-field.

I’ll just continue here with my mental aberrations …


Eye contact can be very stressful for some people affected by autism.

In traditional Australian Aboriginal areas avoidance of eye contact is seen as showing respect.

In my own culture (somewhere there) people also avoided direct eye-contact and just glanced “sacred objects” and other people with peripheral vision after the initial meeting.
I trust this “practice” was to make the person go within and enter into a deep listening of the other person’s “being” (self + no-self) i.e. take the whole presence of another (including the energy field) in.
And when both enter into a deep inner listening – a shift into shared presence/oneness (bliss/love) can occur.


Westerners seem to have some difficulty with this. Why is it?


And you can explain the whole meaning of this mode to a Narcissist in the most supportive, loving atmosphere and way, but if you then withdraw from eye-contact to demonstrate, you will only push the Narcissist into a trauma-field and into imagining all kinds of evils and horrors within such darkness...
- because the Narcissist’s character/persona/mask is utterly dependent on mirroring it through the eyes of another, to see if the charm works and thus if the constructed character is safe and has the overall control in the situation.
So there is a major fear barrier there to overcome.

Having lived among the aboriginal population at Lightning Ridge for some time, I came to my own conclusions about this, after I almost got into a fight for just looking and smiling at someone.

It is a throwback to our primate ancestry, where a direct look and the barring of teeth meant that one ape wished to challenge another in combat...no more, no less.

As to avoiding eye contact in general...one may be shy, have low self-esteem OR have Asperger's Disorder.

Looking at people was something I had to learn beyond just giving a blank stare or gaze. Just some food for thought.

Eye contact can be very stressful for some people affected by autism.

Sorry I missed this the first time, but yeah...YEAH!

[blossomingtree]

Originally Posted by revolver

Yes we can use them as a tool, but always remembering we are not that, we are far more then mere traditions.

I'm not sure where the misconception is that people are "attached" to traditions.

It's like a bicycle, it has its utility and therefore is seen and respected as such. If someone wants to come on a bouncing ball and claim it also gets them the same destination (lol well maybe after a lot of bouncing on the spot ) - pointing out that it's not a bicycle is not "attachment to tradition" nor defence for the sake of it.

Furthermore (teehee) it's interesting to see some posters happy to have been the beneficiary of bikes, but happy to see them dismantled (who cares about everyone else). Religion/traditions without service are of limited value IMHO.

BT