Grieving

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 10 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

I am not sure if your approach would work regarding conflicts between nations. You are saying that nations should only deal with those other nations who share their values, but the world does not function like that.

I am not proposing any code of conduct among people or nations. I am talking about freedom in relationship. Harmony reigns in any natural situation be it a profusion of different vegetation in a rain forest or a mix of tourists and native people in a thriving street market in New York, Paris, Istanbul or Bangkok. One doesn't have to cleave to fellow countrymen but that's ok. Everyone is free to mingle with anyone he/she likes.

At the national level, mutual affinity and benefit would drive international relationships. Why would people gang up to hurt others? We have come to the point where war between major countries would spell certain global distress for everyone. And yet, we make no effort to de-escalate tensions.

Is grief our karma?

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 10 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

You say "The lack of attachment allows me the freedom to harmonize with anyone who resonates with me." It is easy to harmonise with people who resonate with us. The real test is our ability to get along with those who do not resonate with us.

What is the point to this test? Don't you want to share life with your twin flame? Or would you rather marry a battleaxe, a tyrannical partner who has a different reason to be disgusted with you every single day of your life?

Are you inspired by the idea of heroism?

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 10 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

This does raise an obvious question. You have eliminated relationship conflicts by choosing a lifestyle which avoids close relationships. Yet it is these close relationships which test our detachment and our ability to rise above conflict.

If a relationship is close, as with a twin flame, then there can never be a conflict. This is my reasoning. Superficial misunderstandings might occur but they don't run deep.

What I have avoided is not the close relationship but all personal relationships. But that's for a spiritual reason. I don't think a close relationship would interfere with spirituality. On the contrary, it is the essence of spirituality. Humanity as one ought to be our birthright. No grief.

[Starman]

Response to ayar415:

To stay on topic, I might say that you are grieving the wars that take place between nations. You say that what I have shared in my previous post is “philosophical” but to me it is very practical. In fact as I see it, the concept of nations is philosophical. “Peace on Earth begins with me” is not a philosophy, in my opinion it is a fact that each person on earth holds the key to world peace.

Nations are made up of individual people, wars between nations are fought by the youth of this world, most who have yet established a sense of self. The American Civil War was fought by thirteen and fourteen year olds. Lots of U.S. WWII and Korean War soldiers were 16-year olds, and the average U.S. soldier in Vietnam was 19-years old.

Other countries in this world have mostly sent teenagers, and younger to fight in their wars. That you are grieving about this says to me that you are in conflict about it. I am not in inner conflict about war because I believe, and experience, the power of spirit. Humanity is still in the dark ages. We are not as enlightened as we may think. Remnants of the 11th century, 14th century, and other past centuries of raw abrasiveness are still with us. All you have to do is look at how people, especially women and children, are treated in Afghanistan; a failed nation ruled by warlords for many centuries.

We have improved our outer lives much more than we have improved our inner lives, primarily because most people think of an inner life as “philosophical.” What you are sharing right now came from inside of you. We do not see the world as it is, rather we see the world as we are, according to our conditioning. What we see on the surface is but a reflection of what is going on inside of people.

Nations only exist on paper; it is the people, the tribes that come together which form an idea which they call a “nation.” It seems you take a political point of view while I take a spiritual point of view. Nations are political constructs, if a nations military refused to fight in a war that nation would not be able to go to war. Their military is made up of people; most who have been indoctrinated by that military.

I do not want to wander too far off the topic of this thread, which is about grieving. There is a greater peace that transcends the suffering which we see in this world. That peace changes our perspective and it does not come from philosophy, or any other mental construction. It comes from the silent depths of our own being. I frequently experience this peace; it surpasses understanding, and I have seen this peace in others, many who have come to embrace the death of a loved one.

Peace and Good Journey

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 14 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Starman

I do not want to wander too far off the topic of this thread, which is about grieving.

Isn't grieving a form of suffering? There is physical suffering when we experience bodily distress. Is grieving not psychological suffering when we experience emotional distress?

You are quite astute in pointing out that I am grieving the wars that take place between nations. Yes, I am indeed experiencing distress over the consequence of wars when I see wounded warriors - amputees and severely scared veterans on TV making pleas for donations. Is my distress physical or psychological? My grief is not over the loss of a family member or a friend killed in foreign wars. Therefore, my distress is not psychological suffering, is it? Am I experiencing distress over the pain of physical violence done to the human body - any body, be it American or not? Is it possible for me to feel hurt when other people's bodies are harmed? Am I fooling myself that I am an empath?

You write well. Please share with me your observation of the nature of my grief.

[BigJohn]

Timely topic, Starman. If anybody is qualified to discuss this subject, I would say it is you.

As a child, I was always sheltered from death. In a way, I wish I was with my Grand Mother when she died. When my Mother died, I was with her. It was I who announced that she just died. It is a facet of life we sometimes want to ignore but I think it is very important facet of life.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by ayar415

QUOTE Post 14 EXCERPT:

Isn't grieving a form of suffering? There is physical suffering when we experience bodily distress. Is grieving not psychological suffering when we experience emotional distress?

You write well. Please share with me your observation of the nature of my grief.

My insights come from my experience and all I can truly do in this instance is speak for myself. I was a U.S. Army combat medic, lost my eyesight during the Vietnam war, was totally blind for 5-years, and went through more than a dozen eye surgeries to regain my eyesight. When I was blind I learned that while we may look at things with our eyes we truly only see them with our awareness. I saw things when I was blind that I could not see when I had 20/20 vision.

It seems to me that the nature of your grief is compassion, although I filter my T.V. viewing and do not watch that much T.V., nor do I watch war movies. I was diagnosed with combat-related ptsd a long time ago and I have no desire to nurture those images. As a medic I had lots of guys die in my arms, most who never reached their 30th birthday. I have seen death on a large scale, up close and personal, during time of war and here in the U.S.

There is no difference to me. I have compassion for the dying regardless who they are, where or how they died. But my grieving process had to be different from the majority who grieve. As a combat medic, as an ambulance E.M.T., and as a nurse working in a hospital emergency room, or on a hospital burn unit. My first priority was caring for patients and my grieving had to wait until later. I am also empathic and it helped me in my career as long as I did not get lost in my grief..

I worked in the health and human services field for 42-years, now retired; worked in the medical field, the mental heath field, the field of social work, and as a college teacher. Worked mostly in the U.S. but also as a team member with Doctors Without Borders in Afghanistan and elsewhere. I have done professional research and I have a scientific mind but my heart is holistic and it processes things much differently than the mind. Both the path of the head and the path of the heart are valuable, and I strive to take the middle path.

I know people who work with dead people on a daily basis, they may work in a coroners office doing autopsy’s or in a funeral home embalming corpses, etc. They have compassion but the dead causes then no grief. For most their approach is compassion without grief. People approach grief in different ways. I know a person who gave away all of his earthly goods and moved to India to help the poor as a volunteer. Compassion is shown in various ways and so is grieving; it is a very intimate and individual process.

I think it is better to learn from our suffering than to suffer over our suffering. When I loss my eyesight the initial response was suffering, a major freak out, but as time progressed I learned a great deal from being blind. In retrospect it was a blessing in disguise. I had no place to go but inside, and while I had no outer sight, I gained great insights. I learned how to meditate and quiet my mind when I was blind. I am a life member of the Disabled American Veterans organization, and have worked with veterans who have lost arms and legs, traumatic brain injury, etc. Most disabled veterans are more resilient than you may think, or that T.V. ads may portray. This is my opinion.

[Starman]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Timely topic, Starman. If anybody is qualified to discuss this subject, I would say it is you.

As a child, I was always sheltered from death. In a way, I wish I was with my Grand Mother when she died. When my Mother died, I was with her. It was I who announced that she just died. It is a facet of life we sometimes want to ignore but I think it is very important facet of life.

Thank you Big John, I love you brother, and I can relate because I also was sheltered from death as a child.

[ayar415]

QUOTE Post 17 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Starman

This is my opinion.

Your opinion on death is worth its weight in gold, in my opinion.

You said, "I think it is better to learn from our suffering than to suffer over our suffering". I agree.

In contrast to you, I have never experienced suffering, either physical or psychological, of any kind. I have not witnessed any death except one time when my little Brussels Griffon expired in my arms at the vet's. I felt the loss viscerally but momentarily. He was a good dog.

Is it not better to learn from other people's suffering without having to endure such suffering ourselves? I don't celebrate resilience, admirable as it is. I prefer avoidance. And that is the reason why I sought your opinion on ending wars.

Your topic is on grieving. What have you learned from such suffering? Can you share it with me so that I don't have to suffer loss of a loved one?

I think that we must all experience, suffer ourselves or the lessons won't be fully taught from it, where the saying comes from "walk a mile in my shoes".

I have discovered during past life memories that I was going through one particular experience of something. In this one I was standing beside someone else going through it, so it is about knowing both sides that in the end will make us whole.