Stillborn

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

That is not what the spirit teachers say.

Furthermore, there have been numerous NDEs where the person has met on the other side a brother or sister that was a stillborn. Often they didn't even know about it, until their parents later confirmed it.

The spirit attaches itself at the moment of conception, hence stillborn children survive 'death' and have a life in the after-life the same as children that did achieve physical birthing.

first of all, may I point out that we "are" spiritual beings temporarily in a physical body and are in the afterlife both before and after birth/death, and a spirit always "knows" when it will be aborted or miscarried......,,, if a child is stillborn, it does not mean that spirit never merged with it as that is not what I said......I don't believe and have never seen or heard of it being confirmed in any way that spirit merges with the fetus at conception......

Originally Posted by Sybilline

Not that I doubt what the Spiritual teachers say, but I am just wondering how they knew it? Because I think they all deserve respect but at the same time different Spiritual Teachers teach different things.

Perhaps it is really up to the spirit? But then would that also mean they can choose NOT to enter, ie there are humans with no souls? What if souls don't really enter, what if we are bodies, within souls... Are souls even measurable? Are they individual? Can they even be quantified?

Is a "soul" and an entity on another plane the same thing?

I have so much more to learn...

to me, soul/entity/spirit is the same thing. spirit chooses their parents and their lives and the way they will look, etc..... there is no such thing as a human without a soul....... souls are individual entities within the Oneness.....as I just said above, we are spritual beings temporarily in a physical human body.......

Originally Posted by Kaere

I don't see why the spirit would have to develop on the other side... wouldn't it just go back to being what it was before it entered the embryo/fetus/baby? In other words, back to consciousness?

Kaere, my understanding is that we experience soul growth on both sides of the veil....we are not sleeping when we are Home on the Otherside, but have busy lives there as well.......when we transition, depending on our belief system, we usually land up back with our own soul group---those that are in the same vibration as we are.....we learn and grow there also, albeit a bit slower as there is no negativity there as there is here.......

[Kaere]

Originally Posted by Juanita

Kaere, my understanding is that we experience soul growth on both sides of the veil....we are not sleeping when we are Home on the Otherside, but have busy lives there as well.......when we transition, depending on our belief system, we usually land up back with our own soul group---those that are in the same vibration as we are.....we learn and grow there also, albeit a bit slower as there is no negativity there as there is here.......

I was meaning growth as in physical growth. I do understand that we continue spiritual or mental growth and understanding. I've just heard lots of folks who think a spirit actually grows through toddlerhood, childhood, etc. Which I am not inclined to agree with.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by alamode

Michael Newton's books say otherwise. Souls typically like to enter the fetus body at around 5 months gestation but can enter when ever they choose to. It wouldn't make sense if a soul had to automatically enter at the moment of conception. Souls have a lot of preparation to do beforehand and will enter when ready.

A wishy washy mistruth that would have a crushing impact on those who have lost a child through stillbirth.

Michael Newton is a hypnotist.

As I said, there have been many cases of a person, usually a child, undergoing a NDE and meeting a 'stillborn' brother or sister they didn't know they had. The parents, to their amazement, later confirm that they did indeed have a stillborn child in the years before.
If the spirit did not attach itself at the moment of conception this would not occur, but it does.

Silver Birch was emphatic on this point:

"From the moment of conception the spirit has incarnated into the mother's womb"

and again

"From the moment of conception, there is the beginning of an individual, who will never die and continue to grow in my world."

[alamode]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

As I said, there have been many cases of a person, usually a child, undergoing a NDE and meeting a 'stillborn' brother or sister they didn't know they had. The parents, to their amazement, later confirm that they did indeed have a stillborn child in the years before.

I don't doubt that at all. Stillborn is normally an older fetus, close to full-term, right? Normally a soul would have occupied it already, I agree. Souls can choose to enter just to have the experience. A soul doesn't necessarily need to enter a fetus though, especially early on during the first few months of pregnancy its not as common for souls to enter. Like during the first trimester when miscarriages and abortions mostly happen, normally a soul wouldn't have entered yet anyway and if a soul did enter, it knew what would happen and just entered for the experience.

[knightofalbion]

Originally Posted by Kaere

I was meaning growth as in physical growth. I do understand that we continue spiritual or mental growth and understanding. I've just heard lots of folks who think a spirit actually grows through toddlerhood, childhood, etc. Which I am not inclined to agree with.

Why should it seem strange? Even though physical birthing did not occur, the 'stillborn' still had a destined identity and even though, on the Other Side, we are spirit, we still require a vehicle of expression.

[Kaere]

Originally Posted by knightofalbion

Why should it seem strange? Even though physical birthing did not occur, the 'stillborn' still had a destined identity and even though, on the Other Side, we are spirit, we still require a vehicle of expression.

It is strange to me because human form is a human thing and spirit is not human. Why should water hold the shape of a cup once it's been poured out?

I feel that as spirit we go back to formlessness. We may at some point see ourselves and others with form but that only lasts until we let go of the need for it. I don't see spirit visitors with bodies, I encounter them as light or even just perceive thoughts. As spirit, if I need a vehicle of expression, then I will incarnate into a vehicle. But I am not the vehicle, it's just a temporary shape... a Kaere suit.

As always, just my opinion.

[knightofalbion]

Ah! Another thread topic! Next time...

Yes, we are spirit (on the Other Side) but we retain our form. It is, I would go so far as to say standard, for your loved ones to be as they were when they were around 23. Still recognisable as they were on earth, but with youthful appearance.

Originally Posted by Kaere

I was meaning growth as in physical growth. I do understand that we continue spiritual or mental growth and understanding. I've just heard lots of folks who think a spirit actually grows through toddlerhood, childhood, etc. Which I am not inclined to agree with.

Yes, I have heard both.....but I think that it only takes the time it takes "any" soul to reorient themselves, as there is no such thing as "time" over there as we understand it.... you would think that spirit would immediately "remember" who they are, but that is not always the case.....