Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #181  
Old 03-05-2021, 10:20 PM
Legrand
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
I discussed this experiment specifically with my teacher's successor and a Sufi Shaik and we came to a somewhat different conclusion than the one in your post.
Now you got me curious about what was your conclusion
Reply With Quote
  #182  
Old 04-05-2021, 04:41 AM
zinnat
Posts: n/a
 
I think that we have talked enough about free will so let us come back to our main topic of the thread, meditation.

If i resume from where i left the subject, the methodologies for the meditation was next in the line so let us start with that.

But, before that i want to reiterate that the amalgamation of mind and consciousness spreads throughout the body with the help of brain. Meditation uses this default system to its advantage by focusing mind at a specific thing and consciousness being very much attached to it, has no option but to concentrate on that object too.

So, for starters, he first thing to do here is to be into a comfortable position. This may be of any type like sitting with crossed legs, sitting on the chair with legs down or even lying on the bed, either straight or at any side. Postures do not matter. Different people may feel comfortable in different postures. For myself, sitting does not work well so i lie down straight on my back. The only important thing regarding the postures which is important, is that once coming into the desired posture, you are not supposed to move your body, not even a bit, as long as you are meditating. This condition should not be violated otherwise that whole session would go in vain.

There is already one different thread in this forum regarding this issue. One is about why meditation in the bed does not work. I think that i should take up this right here in order to enable clear understanding for readers.

As i said above, postures do not play any role in meditation. One can always choose such a posture which suits him/her the most. One only thing that is required is the upper half of the body ( spinal cord) should be kept straight throughout the session. There is a valid reason for that and i will explain that when we reach there. Nothing else is mandatory as far as physical postures are concerned.

Now, let us assume that a person has gotten into his/her comfortable posture. The second thing to do is to close eyes. I also have mentioned its reason already in the thread some time back. The next thing is to find something to concentrate upon. That object may be anything, a picture of anyone or sound byte. I can tell from my personal experience that a sound byte suits the most. You have to chose a small sound byte according to your taste. That may be a small mantra according to your belief, like Ya Allah, Om Namo Shivay or whatever one likes. Please remember, It is not necessary to chose any religious thing, though that may be helpful but it also can be done without that.

The only important thing regarding the sound byte is that it should not be long, but consisted of merely 3,4 words, otherwise it would not work properly. If it is necessary for anyone to choose a long mantra, then it should be broken down to parts in order to keep one part not lengthy than 3,4 words.

After choosing a sound byte, you have to repeat it, slowly and alertly, preferably in the mind, though it may be difficult in the starting. You tongue will move slightly automatically even if you do not want. That is fine and no need to force the issue. And, you will realize that the image of the words of the sound byte will keep popping up before your mental eyes, as you repeat those. That is natural thing to happen. If you can focus on that images too if you can along with the sound byte. that would enhance the speed of the process.

That is all you have to do, nothing else. Just keep repeating that sound byte in your mind, as long as you can. The process looks very simple on the paper but quite difficult to implement. The reason is our subconscious mind, which is forced to go against its own will by our effort to focus on one thing. So, subconscious will keep distracting from the goal . As the result, conscious mind forget what it was doing and go with the thoughts popping in the subconscious. This will happen again and again but you have to keep it bringing to that sound byte.

With love,
sanjay
Reply With Quote
  #183  
Old 04-05-2021, 08:06 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is online now
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 10,936
  Unseeking Seeker's Avatar
@ zinnat ... great stuff! let’s liven it up a bit!

we lie down (my preference too) or sit, spine erect. we recite a random mantra, which appeals to us. the knowing that at any instant in linear time we can cognise only one impulse, we focus effortlessly by a chanting rhythm. the cadence seeps in, triggering memory imagery, associations with the mantra chosen, interrupting void like silence ...

(just for fun!)
__________________
The Self has no attribute
Reply With Quote
  #184  
Old 04-05-2021, 12:25 PM
Gem Gem is online now
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
  Gem's Avatar
You'll probably find that sitting up has additional benefits longer term, so Id say sit up if possible, and if you are doing mantra, stop doing that.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #185  
Old 04-05-2021, 12:50 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is online now
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 10,936
  Unseeking Seeker's Avatar
maybe it’s difficult to compare pros and cons of posture, since any one entity (us) would tend to choose a posture and then stick with it.

props like mantra or watching breath are great tools to begin with but the act of doing, then stepping back a bit and witnessing is still observation, a subtler action, yet an action. softening attention by releasing anticipation of prior experience, even memory imagery, effectively means being reborn anew in each moment, in an aspect of childlike wonderment ... animated, agendaless, acceptant. since there is no room for a pretended emotion, it is a shift in orientation ... slowly dampening attention oscillations
__________________
The Self has no attribute
Reply With Quote
  #186  
Old 04-05-2021, 02:22 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is online now
Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 10,936
  Unseeking Seeker's Avatar
apologies for rambling on ... (signs of aging) as far as mantras go, it may be advisable to ‘let the mantra come to us’, as a benediction, rather than picking it at random. the inner sound current, for example, which octave reverberates, resounds, renews within automatically? we don’t get to choose. it just is.

the mantra that comes in may be any ... once assigned by the ‘inner guru’, go with it, as a sadhna, an involuntary practice, a pull.
__________________
The Self has no attribute
Reply With Quote
  #187  
Old 04-05-2021, 09:54 PM
Legrand
Posts: n/a
 
Mantra is a good tool, touching the cosmic choir is even a better one and then there is this empty silence, even better when it gets full like a living space with no stars left.
Reply With Quote
  #188  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:19 AM
Gem Gem is online now
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
maybe it’s difficult to compare pros and cons of posture, since any one entity (us) would tend to choose a posture and then stick with it.
Yea there are a range benefits of sitting up, but it's not particularly important.
Quote:
props like mantra or watching breath are great tools to begin with but the act of doing, then stepping back a bit and witnessing is still observation, a subtler action, yet an action. softening attention by releasing anticipation of prior experience, even memory imagery, effectively means being reborn anew in each moment, in an aspect of childlike wonderment ... animated, agendaless, acceptant. since there is no room for a pretended emotion, it is a shift in orientation ... slowly dampening attention oscillations

Basic difference is you have to generate a mantra volitionally and breath is 'already there', which represents the two primary categories of practice: volitional (make it happen, or as you want it to be), and non-volitional (just observe, or see it as it is). All the various practices can be categorised as one or the other, but not both.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #189  
Old 05-05-2021, 03:48 AM
Gem Gem is online now
Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 22,073
  Gem's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
apologies for rambling on ... (signs of aging) as far as mantras go, it may be advisable to ‘let the mantra come to us’, as a benediction, rather than picking it at random. the inner sound current, for example, which octave reverberates, resounds, renews within automatically? we don’t get to choose. it just is.

the mantra that comes in may be any ... once assigned by the ‘inner guru’, go with it, as a sadhna, an involuntary practice, a pull.
That was a great ramble, BTW, I like the broad view in that.

You have to imagine a mantra, so realistically, it doesn't 'just come' - you have to make it happen. But the inner sound current is like focusing on the sound which is already in your head, usually a high pitched buzzing initially at least. That's a good meditation because the sound is soft and finely detailed and you can listen more and more closely to discover subtler nuances of it and be 'absorbed' by it. It conforms to principles of 'observe it as it is' rather than 'make it as you want it to be', which puts it in the non-volitional category of practice.
__________________
Radiate boundless love towards the entire world ~ Buddha
Reply With Quote
  #190  
Old 05-05-2021, 04:51 AM
zinnat
Posts: n/a
 
The point raised By Gem on focusing on breath Instead of mantra Is not technically wrong. It looks right on paper but it does not work so well in practicality.

Let me explain.

The thing here is that just like consciousness, mind, Initially being the part of consciousness, is also eternal. Not only that, Just opposite the default nature of the consciousness, which is to just witness everything, The default nature of the mind is doing something all the time. Its this nature is also eternal and unchangeable just like its existence. No one can change it, no matter how hard we try. We cannot stop it thinking even for some seconds, no one can, not even the enlightened ones, and not even the God himself. That is why all this creation happened. God never wanted all this to happen but he could not help it.

Before creation. The God was perfect, fully enlightened in the void but he wanted to exist. Bible says, there was a word and the word was the God. Then he said, let there be light. As soon as he desired/wished for the light, He came into existence and at the same time, its mind also came into existence. But, because as the mind was created to do something, thus it became its default nature and continues so till now. The mind of the God never stopped creating, thus all cosmos came into existence. Lastly, the God realized that there this has to be stopped at some point. That is why he created humans because all other higher spiritual entities, no matter how better they are spiritually, cannot overcome the mind. Only humans can do that and become one with the God.

God had no intention of forbidding adam and eve from eating from the tree of the knowledge. If he did not want that, that would have never happened. But he wanted them to eat the fruit and then going through all this struggle because without that struggle humans cannot understand how they can overcome the undesired wondering of the mind. The wanted human to realize that the purpose of the mind is only to realize that it and consciousness exist and it and should not go beyond that. That is enlightenment. So, in a sense, The God himself is not completely enlightened because, the consciousness, which resides in every human is also a part of the God. So, as all humans are not enlightened, thus the God himself is not enlightened. The problem with the mind is, no matter how evil it may be, it is only tool which can lead humans to the enlightenment.

That is precisely why it is called necessary evil in religions. The story of adam and eve and eating the fruit is its example in Christianity. Judaism calls this Yetzer Hara

Contrary to what is generally believed, The God is not an individual or a portfolio but but merely state a state of being. Anyone who get elevated up to there becomes a part of the God or the God itself.

So, what is the way out? The only way to tame the mind is to keep it engaged in something in order so stop it wondering. But, when we focus merely on the breath, mind becomes free and becomes uncontrollable but in repeating mantras, it gets something to do thus can be tamed
.

That is my personal experience and conclusion at least. If focusing merely on the breath works for anyone, he/she should do that but i have my doubts.

with love,
sanjay
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums