Consciousness

[neil]

Originally Posted by hazada guess

Ropbert Spira is right, but he left a bit out.It also explains reincarnation.When we are plucked from the universal consciousness,We may have a part of another soul with us,we are all one.

Or, might that extra soul, either whole or in part, be other nasty depleted spiritual beings connected to us...and of whom are deceiving earthlings into believing such things.

I put it forward that I know that it as I experience it. And i know that this is why some earthlings do not realise that they have been seperated from the flesh for ever more, and why they loiter around the earth instead of moving on away from the earth.

Experiences Experiences Experiences, with many dark & or evil minded beings, has wrought out the truth. That is if an individual can see through their eronious truths, that they would have us believe.

The prayer from the padgett messages, IT IS THE LAST PARAGRAPH THAT I WOULD LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TOWARDS REGARDING EVIL SPIRITUAL BEINGS, INFLUENCING EARTHLINGS....ps, the capital letters are only to draw attention, & are not yelling.

The prayer given by Jesus as the only prayer….
December 2nd, 1916.

Received by James Padgett.
Washington D.C.

I am here, Jesus.
Let your prayer be as follows: -

Our Father, who art in heaven, we recognize:

That Thou Art - art all holy and loving and merciful, and that we are the children of Thy care and not the subservient, sinful and depraved creatures that our false teachers would have us believe.

That we are the greatest of Thy creations and the most wonderful of all Thy handiworks, and that we are the objects of Thy great Soul’s love and tenderest care.

That Thy will is that we become at one with Thee and partake of Thy great love which Thou hast bestowed upon us through Thy mercy and desire that we become, in truth, Thy children; and not through the sacrifice and death of any one of Thy creatures, even though the world thinks that one Thy equal and a part of Thy godhead.

That Thou will open up our souls to the inflowing of Thy love, and that then will come Thy holy spirit to bring into our souls, this, Thy love in great abundance until our souls may be transformed into the very essence of Thyself; and that there may come to us faith - such faith as will cause us to realize that we are truly Thy children and that we are one with Thee in very substance and not in image only.

Let us have such faith as will cause us to know that Thou art our Father and the bestower of every good and perfect gift, and that only we, ourselves, can prevent Thy love changing us from the mortal to the immortal.

Let us never cease to realize that Thy love is waiting for each and all of us, and that when we come to Thee with faith and earnest aspirations, Thy love will never be withholden from us.
-----------------------------------------
Keep us in the shadow of Thy love every hour and moment of our lives, and help us to overcome all temptations of the flesh and the influence of the powers of the evil ones who so constantly surround us and endeavor to turn our thoughts away from Thee to the pleasures and allurements of this world.
-----------------------------------------
Biblical scripture refers to the evil ones, though very poorly.

Smiles and regards once again.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey Matey,

So when everything else was taken away what is left that can realise that consciousness is present .

I didn't realise that consciousness was present, Dazza, because there was nothing to realise. Consciousness becomes conscious of itself.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

I didn't realise that consciousness was present, Dazza, because there was nothing to realise. Consciousness becomes conscious of itself.

Hey,

Well I generically asked 'Who here has realised what consciousness is'?

to which you replied, 'I have, it was all that was left when everything else was taken away'.

So it's a bit tricky isn't it to say you have realised consciousness and yet there is nuffin to realise

So we are left with no self, no sense of I AM, no sense of the mind or the world and yet we can still say that consciousness is conscious of itself or awareness is aware of awareness as some have described it .

Even the thought or notion that consciousness is conscious of itself has to be a mindful thought and I wonder while nuffin is present that relates to self how can there be a thought of that .

This is why I say that what is realised only comes about through self that hadn't realised something to be a certain way .

When we start to associate consciousness and awareness to be 'all that is' for instance, that isn't realised, it a thought that one has about what you are and what everything else is .

If there is nothing there when self is no more and everything has dropped away so to speak, then what is left that can make such statements?



x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey,
Well I generically asked 'Who here has realised what consciousness is'?
to which you replied, 'I have, it was all that was left when everything else was taken away'.

Hi there Dazza

You can be conscious that you have the thought of I am - if you're lucky - but consciousness is not the thought of I am. You can become I am itself beyond all thought but that's a very different beastie, and then you can become conscious of that. CAN become conscious of it, because having the thought and being conscious of having the thought are two different beasties. Thoughts are 'objects', they have properties and values and everything else that gives them existence within our minds. Similarly with realisations, they seem to come from nowhere but the unconscious, to the conscious mind, is 'nowhere'. So no, it doesn't come from self or what most people think self is and this is why there's so much confusion - if people don't know what self is they don't know themselves, all they know is they have a belief but they don't realise that.

They are not conscious that the self and the belief of what self is are not the same, and if you're going to get Spiritual on this the self is a kara or 'invented thing' that is their Ahamkara - Aham being 'I'. People invent definitions to suit themselves but they become the invention rather than the self they have redefined.

Consciousness is epiphenomenal, which means it is beyond cause, effect and every other phenomenon. It doesn't need the thought of being conscious, it exists in its own right - sorta kinda because words aren't much use. The thought of consciousness and what it might be is not consciousness, consciousness becomes conscious that there is a thought of what consciousness is so it's 'above' the mental processes. It's like there's another 'layer' above. Realisations are part of the mental processes, 'technically' they're the outpourings of the unconscious mind that we become conscious of.

It sometimes helps to think about what we are conscious of and having consciousness itself but that's for the mind's understanding. Because when everything has dropped away, what is left?

Originally Posted by neil

and because of my phenomenally extraordinary spiritual experiences, i truely do not concern myself with scientific beliefs.

The trouble is Neil, that plugging away at this doesn't achieve the effect you want it to. Quite the opposite in fact.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Hi there Dazza

You can be conscious that you have the thought of I am - if you're lucky - but consciousness is not the thought of I am. You can become I am itself beyond all thought but that's a very different beastie, and then you can become conscious of that. CAN become conscious of it, because having the thought and being conscious of having the thought are two different beasties. Thoughts are 'objects', they have properties and values and everything else that gives them existence within our minds. Similarly with realisations, they seem to come from nowhere but the unconscious, to the conscious mind, is 'nowhere'. So no, it doesn't come from self or what most people think self is and this is why there's so much confusion - if people don't know what self is they don't know themselves, all they know is they have a belief but they don't realise that.

They are not conscious that the self and the belief of what self is are not the same, and if you're going to get Spiritual on this the self is a kara or 'invented thing' that is their Ahamkara - Aham being 'I'. People invent definitions to suit themselves but they become the invention rather than the self they have redefined.

Consciousness is epiphenomenal, which means it is beyond cause, effect and every other phenomenon. It doesn't need the thought of being conscious, it exists in its own right - sorta kinda because words aren't much use. The thought of consciousness and what it might be is not consciousness, consciousness becomes conscious that there is a thought of what consciousness is so it's 'above' the mental processes. It's like there's another 'layer' above. Realisations are part of the mental processes, 'technically' they're the outpourings of the unconscious mind that we become conscious of.

Hey Scottie,

The thing is that peeps keep on saying what consciousness is when it isn’t realised .

All one perhaps has to do in this instance is understand how one can be conscious and aware that I AM is .

By what means?

Mind? self, Self, Consciousness, awareness etc etc ..

Some say consciousness is all there is and is also of the mind and beyond, of self and beyond but it can be simplified into there is only what you are .

Consciousness is not the thought of I AM you say but that’s similar to someone saying I AM not my mind-body .

The thing is that we know context is key and having a foundation in place that is sound has to be paramount .

In a way when we speak about Consciousness is not the thought of I AM but without Consciousness there is no thought and no one has realised Consciousness to be a thought of I AM or not .

It really in my eyes is mental gymnastics based upon an unknown foundation of what Consciousness actually is .

You are an advocate of the perceiver and the perceived are the same, so how is the perceiver and the perceived experiencing that in regards to Consciousness .

It’s either all Consciousness or all mind that what you are experiences in order to be aware of that experience .

Now what you are is not separated from mind or Consciousness so equally said you are mind, you are Consciousness, and you are the the thought of that too …

Originally Posted by Greenslade

sometimes helps to think about what we are conscious of and having consciousness itself but that's for the mind's understanding. Because when everything has dropped away, what is left?

It's all mindful understanding, that's the bottom line and that's what is required to understand when realisations are being thrown around ..

From an understanding of there is only what you are then there can only be that when self has dissolved or fallen away, when mind and the world has been transcended ..

Now what is left beyond all this cannot be realised to be this and not that and that doesn't reveal what Consciousness is what Sanskrit term means and relates too lol .

The arguments that occur thru peeps speaking in Sanskrit terms when renouncing the world to be illusory and such likes is barmy ..


x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Hey Scottie,

Hey there Dazza

Originally Posted by God-Like

The thing is that peeps keep on saying what consciousness is when it isn’t realised .

Consciousness isn't realised. You can realise you are conscious but that is not consciousness itself, realisations come from mind processes. But you can become conscious of your mind and how the realisations well up inside you. It's very difficult to explain but consciousness seems to come in 'layers', you become conscious that you are conscious, and when that happens you become conscious that there is another 'later' above that. It's like an onion.

Originally Posted by God-Like

All one perhaps has to do in this instance is understand how one can be conscious and aware that I AM is .

It's called na'eti-na'eti or neti-neti, it means 'not this, not this'. It's when you stand back from the mental processes and become consciousness itself.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Some say consciousness is all there is and is also of the mind and beyond, of self and beyond but it can be simplified into there is only what you are .

Consciousness on its own isn't very much.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Consciousness is not the thought of I AM you say but that’s similar to someone saying I AM not my mind-body .

But how much of this "I am not my mind body" stuff has little to do with Spirituality?

Originally Posted by God-Like

The thing is that we know context is key and having a foundation in place that is sound has to be paramount .

Exactly.

Originally Posted by God-Like

In a way when we speak about Consciousness is not the thought of I AM but without Consciousness there is no thought and no one has realised Consciousness to be a thought of I AM or not .

I am is the centre of the field of the conscious and it's simply an acknowledgement that consciousness IS. Nothing after that. The thought of I am is very different to the consciousness of I am. The thought of I am is usually followed by words people attach to themselves and want to think of themselves as.

Originally Posted by God-Like

It really in my eyes is mental gymnastics based upon an unknown foundation of what Consciousness actually is .

For some, yes. For me consciousness is not something that you realise or have thoughts about, it's something that happens in layers above all the usual processes - although that's a 'translation' for the mind. It;s in the same 'waveband' as Gnosis, if that helps.

Originally Posted by God-Like

You are an advocate of the perceiver and the perceived are the same, so how is the perceiver and the perceived experiencing that in regards to Consciousness .

It’s either all Consciousness or all mind that what you are experiences in order to be aware of that experience .

Now what you are is not separated from mind or Consciousness so equally said you are mind, you are Consciousness, and you are the the thought of that too …

As best as I can explain my own 'experiences'....

It helps to think about consciousness itself and the 'contents' of consciousness. As a parallel you can think of you being only thought itself, and after that there is what you think about. Thoughts are one 'layer' and the thinker is another 'layer above' that. Similarly with consciousness, you are consciousness and then there is what you become conscious of. As far as I'm concerned I experience that I am both the perceiver and the perceived because I understand that the perceived is a process of the unconscious. I am conscious of that process. From a perspective of the Jungian self I am both the conscious and the unconscious at the same time, two perceptually separate aspects of myself in a symbiotic relationship that creates what I am conscious of. Consciousness is what encompasses that without the filters of the Jungian ego.

No, what you are is not separate from mind or or the thought consciousness or the unconscious, because all of those aspects - and more - play their own role in the creation of your sense of I am. They are all aspects of your self that create 'you'. You can tell yourself that the unconscious has little to do with creating 'you' all you like, but that in itself is a product of the unconscious.

Originally Posted by God-Like

It's all mindful understanding, that's the bottom line and that's what is required to understand when realisations are being thrown around ..

From an understanding of there is only what you are then there can only be that when self has dissolved or fallen away, when mind and the world has been transcended ..

There's a lot more to it than mindful understanding, it's possible that childhood experiences can be a prime motivator for Spirituality and how people talk about consciousness itself. Not to mention the projection of a Persona. The other problem is the way the Western mind works in relation to the Eastern mind works, and the agenda of the 'Spiritual mind'.

'This' vs 'that' is the differentiated consciousness of the ego, part of the ego's 'job' is to create an environment where we can compare and contrast, because that forms the basis of human understanding. We also need echoes and reflections from other egos because we can't see ourselves. It is through that process that consciousness is 'generated', for want of a better word. The big question is, what is being 'generated'?

The world is an illusion but most people take that literally with no attempt at understanding what is meant by it. Another casualty of Western vs Eastern understanding. You can't see what you see, everything you think you see has been processed by your brain - what you actually see is a distorted image projected onto the inside of a sphere.

You are the illusion, that's what people don't want to hear. In the context of Ahamkara you are a kara of the I-maker - you are an invented thing.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by neil

Smiles, science can not measure/detect the invisible spiritual matter of the one and only spiritual universe.
So untill they do, they will never understand what billions of earthlings experience of the spiritual world & our Soul'self including consciousness.

They will never understand how the brain truely works, and because of my phenomenally extraordinary spiritual experiences, i truely do not concern myself with scientific beliefs.

Originally Posted by neil

there are phenomenal countless nbr of spheres within the heavens, before any of us can come anywhere close to knowing the christ entity. These individual spheres can take hundreds of years, for a person to raise one's spiritual Soul'self, radiant enough to be able to withstand the ever increasing incredible intensities within any of the spheres, from one sphere to the next.
That would be thousands upon thousands of earth years to even leave the sixth and last sphere of the natural spiritual heavens, before a person could think of trying to travers into the seventh & first sphere of the Holy kingdom.

And then there are 15 or so spheres in the holy kingdom before the spheres are said to become un numbered. And then it is said that no one can say how many more spheres are beyond all of that.

Hi Neil ,
Just wondering if at any point in time soul-self would ever acquire a form / shape again . As u yourself mentions that there are countless spheres and there should be such a possibility. This would match with your own assertion of 'one and only one' spiritual world above. Also there is question how the soul-self would meet the ever-increasing intensities of each sphere and demonstrate its capability & worthiness for each and next sphere.

I definitely believe that spiritual Soul'self should be radiant enough to be able to withstand the ever increasing incredible intensities within any of the spheres . And that would require some previous memory . But that memory could be sort of memory of key/important/relevant/summary/representative memory reflecting our true selves and that may not require us to remember minute/irrelevant/detailed / unimportant /second by second information of our life .

Does that resonate with you or your experiences are different. In any case , I respect your experience and insights.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Consciousness on its own isn't very much.

Hey,

How I understood it was that the meaning behind everything and nothing tries to relate to the entirety of what you are that is everything that exists of the mindful universe to then the nothing with the absence of it .. but what remains is no more or less what you are .

The mind trap is that nothing (or isn't very much) in your words in someway means lesser than ..

Again I dare say there has to be common ground on what consciousness actually is to then speak of it in these ways, but in a similar vein cosmic consciousness is experienced in a way where there is complete unity with the cosmos . Nuffin is there so to speak to perceive but yet the whole universe is experienced .


x daz x

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There's a lot more to it than mindful understanding, it's possible that childhood experiences can be a prime motivator for Spirituality and how people talk about consciousness itself. Not to mention the projection of a Persona. The other problem is the way the Western mind works in relation to the Eastern mind works, and the agenda of the 'Spiritual mind'.
.

In my eyes, childhood experiences and all experiences are mindful . Again one needs to have common ground as to what mind is or refers too .

Beyond mindfulness there is no experience . So when we speak about understanding what consciousness supposedly is, then it has to be mindful understandings thru experience .. but just as there is no realisation of consciousness, there isn't really an experience of it, if one hasn't realised what it is

This is my main concern when peeps say what it is and what it isn't .


x dazzle x